Phyically close but not sexual?

[Cinnamon Biscuit]

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

I've been feeling very anxious, conflicted, and confused lately about a friendship of mine. I've been reading up on difference attractions and relationships, but I wanted to ask the ace community for perspective and insight since you're sensitive to non-sexual attractions and desires.

About myself:

While curious about them, I have always been uncomfortable/repulsed by the ideas of intercourse, birth, nudity/genitalia. I knew this wasn't "normal" and kept those feelings to myself. I had no concept of asexuality, I just thought sex would grow on me or if I loved someone feelings would grow. After all, the thought of love/marriage seemed really nice and I often had crushes. I was never in a hurry to date. I didn't really struggle with sexual "purity" like my peers did, other than being highly curious beyond what my parents were comfortable with. During my university years I was sexually assaulted and became disillusioned with men and the overtly sexual culture of today. I gave up on the idea of finding a nice man who wasn't obsessed with sex. Ironically, I started reading erotica to get some sense of control. While I find erotic fiction pleasing, I'm picky about it because a lot of it makes me uncomfortable. Moreover I found random impulses pop up concerning certain women who were my friends (like kissing, holding, touching, etc). While questionable, I didn't act on them nor I did I find myself wanting sex from women.

In the end though, I never felt I would get what I wanted in a relationship. Unfortunately I'm highly physically affectionate and a bit of a romantic, so I did my best to satisfy/quell desires through fiction. In recent years I met a nice young man who I thought I'd be comfortable with dating. I tried to get to know him, spend time with him, and show interest, but I was extremely worried about dating... because if it went well, then what? I wasn't sure I wanted marriage or sex. It seemed unfair for me to date people. The relationship never happened though.

I have looked into asexuality years before and thought I was likely asexual, but felt there was a strong message that, "if you've experienced any type of sexual desire/arousal ever you can't be asexual". So I dropped notion but rather liked the description of lithosexual "having sexual desire but not wanting sex."

Fast forward to today. Like I said, I'm highly physically affectionate (hugs, cuddles, etc) but I get very little physical affection by choice. Generally I'm fine with this lack of affection, but it's been a really rough year and I really wanted physical comfort and started to cuddle with a best friend. But because of life events and society I'm paranoid of physical contact from others and worried others will misinterpret mine as sexual or think it's inappropriate. So while cuddling with her makes me happy, I'm anxious. At first I was more anxious of my actions/enjoyment being construed as sexual (by her or others who saw us), but then I started to question my own motives. I'm anxious that either what I'm doing is more sexual than I want to admit (holding/cuddling in bed for extended periods) or that I'm in denial about how intimate I want to be with her. Or perhaps I'm just feeling depressed, affectionately/physically deprived, and/or experiencing sensual attraction but the rest of society would like me to think anything but a handshake is sex.

I'm not really big on labels, but I just feel rather lost. I'm not sure about myself or my actions. I've tried to be as honest as I can without writing a novel. I know in the end, who I am is my choice. But what are your opinions, dose my relationship sound sexual? Do I sound asexual or something else?

Also, as asexuals do any of you have physically close and affectionate but non-sexual relationships? What dose that look like?

Thank you for your time, I appreciate it really. Please have a wonderful day :)

[Pi(e)]

You can definitely be physically affectionate with someone without being sexual. Wanting to hug someone in no way has to mean you are somehow sexually interested in them whatsoever.

You don't even have to be romantically attracted to someone to feel sensually attracted to them. For example, many little kids want to cuddle with their parents before going to bed. It is completely natural, and is also totally platonic.

I for one, love to cuddle with my queer platonic partner. We are most definitely not sexually attracted to each other (we're both asexual) and probably not romantically attracted either, but hugging and stuff is just really nice.

My guess is if you don't think you're sexually attracted to you friend, you're not. But you are the only one who can say decisively.

[Tarfeather]

What's wrong with enjoying physical contact in a sexual way? :)

[i_am_me2]

hmm good question. as a person who is asexual and who has also gone through an assault.

i think it is up to you how you percieve yourself.

for me i had to determine what i was feeling wasnt just anxiety but my asexual self.

physical hugging etc nothing wrong with that.

i guess discovering your asexuality and what it means to you maybe a first step.

[Qloshae]

I have looked into asexuality years before and thought I was likely asexual, but felt there was a strong message that, "if you've experienced any type of sexual desire/arousal ever you can't be asexual". So I dropped notion but rather liked the description of lithosexual "having sexual desire but not wanting sex."

Two things here.

1. Asexuals don't experience sexual attraction.

These three are just as sexually attractive to me (Probably shouldn't open at work). Although looking at the first two makes me feel a bit awkward.

That said, I experience aesthetic attraction and I think all of them look good, but in different ways. Basically, aesthetic attraction is what you feel when you look at a painting. Or aesthetic aversion if it's modern art (haha).

2. "lithosexuals", from what I heard, are sexually attracted to people as long as the person is not sexually attracted back.

3. You might find this helpful.

[Cinnamon Biscuit]

You can definitely be physically affectionate with someone without being sexual. Wanting to hug someone in no way has to mean you are somehow sexually interested in them whatsoever.

You don't even have to be romantically attracted to someone to feel sensually attracted to them. For example, many little kids want to cuddle with their parents before going to bed. It is completely natural, and is also totally platonic.

I for one, love to cuddle with my queer platonic partner. We are most definitely not sexually attracted to each other (we're both asexual) and probably not romantically attracted either, but hugging and stuff is just really nice.

My guess is if you don't think you're sexually attracted to you friend, you're not. But you are the only one who can say decisively.

Thank you for your reply! It helped a lot. I guess it's hard for me to understand what is normal but close sensual affection is because my family isn't very physically affectionate. I don't feel comfortable cuddling with family, even hugs can be awkward. So cuddling with a friend in bed seems really abnormal to me. My friend cuddles with her family very openly, so she very comfortable and laidback about it. But for me cuddling is new in practice and like a kid I don't know what's okay.

What's wrong with enjoying physical contact in a sexual way? :)

Nothing I suppose. But for me, personally, ... if I felt sexual towards a friend I wouldn't want to "lure" them into a sexual relationship. I'd want to be upfront and honest about it or to make an informed choice about it. But that's just me.

hmm good question. as a person who is asexual and who has also gone through an assault.

i think it is up to you how you percieve yourself.

for me i had to determine what i was feeling wasnt just anxiety but my asexual self.

physical hugging etc nothing wrong with that.

i guess discovering your asexuality and what it means to you maybe a first step.

I guess I always felt I couldn't quality as asexual (though I relate so much). So I never tried to understand "my asexual self". I don't know if I even know where to start with that.

I have looked into asexuality years before and thought I was likely asexual, but felt there was a strong message that, "if you've experienced any type of sexual desire/arousal ever you can't be asexual". So I dropped notion but rather liked the description of lithosexual "having sexual desire but not wanting sex."

]Two things here.

1. Asexuals don't experience sexual attraction.

These three are just as sexually attractive to me (Probably shouldn't open at work). Although looking at the first two makes me feel a bit awkward.

That said, I experience aesthetic attraction and I think all of them look good, but in different ways. Basically, aesthetic attraction is what you feel when you look at a painting. Or aesthetic aversion if it's modern art (haha).

2. "lithosexuals", from what I heard, are sexually attracted to people as long as the person is not sexually attracted back.

3. You might find this helpful.

I was actually adverse about the woman there, but that's because she looks photoshoped and thus unnatural haha.

Thank you for your information. It's clear but... I guess what really confuses me is if sexual attraction is defined by things like, "fantasies, arousal, physical sensations of heat or tingling" but some asexual can still experience those things... how do they know if they aren't sexually attracted to others? Just because they don't want/desire/seek out sexual intercourse?

It seems for some lucky asexuals it's pretty cut and dry, but if I'm asexual I feel like I must be right on the fence. Like just barely asexual. It's really confusing.

[Qloshae]

I found observing and talking to allosexuals outside of the asexual community helpful because when I was aware of asexuality I could just see how different we actually were.
A person, also in this thread once told me outright that I wasn't asexual and I am, so yea. Should trust yourself.

If you're wrong, you're wrong. But it doesn't really hurt to see if it fits.

As for sexual attraction, I guess sexual attraction is kinda like lust?

[Ficulnean]

Just too add to what the others haves said: If you're worried you're in denial, you are probably not in denial. I know I have those same feelings, but I also know the source for me is the norm for sex and the only way I can fit into that norm being if I'm somehow in denial. Norms have a pretty strong influence. But once you're actually worried you are in denial, well, if you were you wouldn't get to that stage of worry.

[Cinnamon Biscuit]

I found observing and talking to allosexuals outside of the asexual community helpful because when I was aware of asexuality I could just see how different we actually were.

A person, also in this thread once told me outright that I wasn't asexual and I am, so yea. Should trust yourself.

If you're wrong, you're wrong. But it doesn't really hurt to see if it fits.

As for sexual attraction, I guess sexual attraction is kinda like lust?

Thank you Qloshae for all the help :) You make a good point about talking with allosexuals, because in comparison there's always been a difference between me and numerous friends I have had. Having more time to think and read, I also think most of the attraction/crushes I've had towards most people was aesthetic, emotional, romantic, and sensual attraction but not sexual. I was also reading through the forums here and found other asexuals who were highly physical affectionate (even beyond my comfort) and still considered themselves asexual. I feel like I may never be 100% certain without experience, but I feel comfortable in saying I'm asexual now :)

Well I really crave physical affection from her now that I've been getting it. Like I'm always looking for opportunities to touch, hug, or cuddle with her, but when I'm with her it's more of a relaxed, mellow, warm, and contented feelings. Not really "sparks" or excitement.

Just too add to what the others haves said: If you're worried you're in denial, you are probably not in denial. I know I have those same feelings, but I also know the source for me is the norm for sex and the only way I can fit into that norm being if I'm somehow in denial. Norms have a pretty strong influence. But once you're actually worried you are in denial, well, if you were you wouldn't get to that stage of worry.

Though I believe it's entirely possible to question oneself and go back into denial, I think I understand what you're saying. Norms do have a strong influence and in the past I have tried to fit myself into those norms believing I wasn't that different. I guess that's the real denial. In the past weeks I've been trying to understand what I actually want and feel rather than a narrative that society, fiction, or even erotica has convinced me of. It's hard to separate out what I want... and what I've been condition to "want". Like of course I want physical closeness and intimacy, but that doesn't mean it has to look like sex. I feel like I'm still separating that out.

[dancingdarling]

I feel pretty similar, I label myself as a romantic sex/genital-averse asexual. I never look at someone and think "I'd tap that" and I'm never curious about what someone is like in bed, but I am very physically affectionate and want to cuddle/snuggle, link arms, and hold hands. My best friend and I have a queerplatonic relationship in which we do all of the above mentioned affectionate gestures and he kisses the top of my head. He's allosexual and knows that I'm asexual, there's no sexual attraction between us at all.

[Starlit Sky]

Thank you for your information. It's clear but... I guess what really confuses me is if sexual attraction is defined by things like, "fantasies, arousal, physical sensations of heat or tingling" but some asexual can still experience those things... how do they know if they aren't sexually attracted to others? Just because they don't want/desire/seek out sexual intercourse?

Nope, that's not what sexual attraction is! :) Sexual attraction is . . . a certain "pull" towards another person (or non-person) to have sex. It's got nothing to do with fantasies, arousal, physical sensations, or anything like that! After all, most (but not all) bodies are going to respond to external stimuli, and then there are people like me who quite like fantasizing, but when it comes to doing it? Nah thanks.

Also, by the way, reading erotica isn't at all ironic. It's a myth that all sexual abuse survivors become totally "anti-sex." Before I was attacked I was extremely sex-repulsed, but afterwards I was pretty curious. It's just a coping mechanism, which I think you've sussed out for yourself!

[timewarp]

What's wrong with enjoying physical contact in a sexual way? :)

Let me give you my perspective on this. Nothing is sexual for me, not even sex. At a certain point I might actually succeed in having satisfying sex (with loads of loads of patience), but it would still not be sexual, only sensual for me.

[Starlit Sky]

What's wrong with enjoying physical contact in a sexual way? :)

Let me give you my perspective on this. Nothing is sexual for me, not even sex. At a certain point I might actually succeed in having satisfying sex (with loads of loads of patience), but it would still not be sexual, only sensual for me.

Oh, agreed. Not that I would want to have sex, but there are probably things that could be done with me that many would consider to be sexual, but I would find them more "sensual."

[SpeedinThroughSpace]

Also, as asexuals do any of you have physically close and affectionate but non-sexual relationships? What dose that look like?

Not sure how much on topic this is (as it concerns family relationships), but I have had a physically close and affectionate relationship with my sister for my (or rather, her) entire life. She's three years younger than me, and as kids, we used to do a lot of physical touches that I've commonly seen among siblings (well, those that are not at each other's necks all the time). When I say physical in this context, I mean things like holding hands, hugging and cuddling. We grew up in a loving family, and hugs/cuddling were very common between us kids and our parents, too. (Things like crawling into parents' bed on Sunday mornings to cuddle, sitting in a parent's lap, leaning against a parent on the sofa while watching TV together, etc.) Also now (my sister and I am in our twenties now), hugs and affectionate touches (ruffling hair, touching hands) are something normal and frequent in our entire family. Sometimes my sister and I also still hold hands and lean against one another for comfort. Naturally, these are affectionate touches among parents and kids and among siblings, so I am not sure how relevant they can be in the context of your question.

Still, I know that as social creatures, human beings usually need physical touch to feel happy. Affectionate touches are common among other social creatures as well (animals like horses, dogs, meercats, dolphins, monkeys, to name just a few). Animals that live in groups together often do affectionate touching and what could very well be called cuddling (for example, many animals take care of each other's fur, sleep next to other animals they like, etc). There are studies that say more and more people, especially in western societies it seems, are deprived of physical contact to other humans and get depressed because of that. Physical affection,also free of any sexual content, is a natural part of human relationships, I guess.

I think there is a lot of cultural influence in what is seen as sexual/romantic physical affection or just friendly touches. For example, I read that in some African countries it is common for good friends to hold hands in public. Holding hands is a sign/expression of friendship there, not of romance. In some cultures, it is common to kiss good friends or family members in greeting (also among male friends, something that would be seen as a gay act in Europe or the States by most people).

There are also different ideas on the progression of sexual relationships in different cultures. In some countries, kissing is considered normal at very early stages into a relationship, in others it is seen as 'one step before sex', kind of, so if two people start a relationship, one of them feels fine with kissing early, while their partner might feel like they are rushing things. Cultural backgrounds effect a lot of relationships and behavior.

With cultural expectations being a thing for all of us, it's probably best everyone in the relationship/friendship knows how the touch is meant as it can easily lead to misunderstandings and disappointment if one person thinks they are romantically or sexually approached, while the other person is only into a close friendship with lots of hugs.

TL;DR version: Affectionate physical touches are nowhere near to being necessarily sexual, I think they are a natural part of human bonding (any bonding, not exclusively pair bonding). How they are seen however is often influenced by cultural expectations.

[Busrider]

Cinnamon Biscuit, on 09 Feb 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

Also, as asexuals do any of you have physically close and affectionate but non-sexual relationships? What dose that look like?

During my teenage romances sex seemed unthinkable.<- I considered that decission girls' stuff & not my business.

Later (at almost 40) I wanted something similar again but it failed. - We made out, she wanted sex, got something like it and after that interruption we continued with the pleasant parts, rinsed & repeated... split.

I suppose the kink scene labels what we are looking for "tease and denial"? <- Some kind of sexual folks seem into that. - I have neither a clue nor experience but I guess if you manage to spot somebody who is into getting locked into chastity devices, you can have fun, at least for a while? Bondage freaks might be cuddly too?

I could imagine there is a grey zone with slightly bi-romantic non lesbians too? - Women seem a bit more liberal than the male homophobia excesses.

I don't know how things will work out for you and your partners, but being honest open and somewhat willing to compromise (maybe as in caressing a masturbating partner?) should help.

[Cinnamon Biscuit]

I feel pretty similar, I label myself as a romantic sex/genital-averse asexual. I never look at someone and think "I'd tap that" and I'm never curious about what someone is like in bed, but I am very physically affectionate and want to cuddle/snuggle, link arms, and hold hands. My best friend and I have a queerplatonic relationship in which we do all of the above mentioned affectionate gestures and he kisses the top of my head. He's allosexual and knows that I'm asexual, there's no sexual attraction between us at all.

Thanks for replying! It's nice to hear from someone who's similar :) Also, your relationship with your best friend sounds so cute and sweet! I'm glad you found someone to be affectionate with.

Thank you for your information. It's clear but... I guess what really confuses me is if sexual attraction is defined by things like, "fantasies, arousal, physical sensations of heat or tingling" but some asexual can still experience those things... how do they know if they aren't sexually attracted to others? Just because they don't want/desire/seek out sexual intercourse?

Nope, that's not what sexual attraction is! :) Sexual attraction is . . . a certain "pull" towards another person (or non-person) to have sex. It's got nothing to do with fantasies, arousal, physical sensations, or anything like that! After all, most (but not all) bodies are going to respond to external stimuli, and then there are people like me who quite like fantasizing, but when it comes to doing it? Nah thanks.

Also, by the way, reading erotica isn't at all ironic. It's a myth that all sexual abuse survivors become totally "anti-sex." Before I was attacked I was extremely sex-repulsed, but afterwards I was pretty curious. It's just a coping mechanism, which I think you've sussed out for yourself!

Thanks Starlit! I've seen your posts around the forums and they have been very helpful :) I feel like we're pretty similar asexually. I have fantasies too. Though they often fall short haha, but I do have them. Yet it's stuff like that which made me think I couldn't be asexual. It's good to know that thoughts or stimuli isn't a dictation on sexuality.

Well I felt really angry for people being overtly sexual for awhile (not saying that was right, but it's how I felt). So when I started to read erotica I felt like a hypocrite and kinda hated myself for it, but like you said it was a way to cope. It gave me a sense of agency and I think a feeling of intimacy I didn't have. I was always curious about sex but fictional erotica did make it less repulsive? Still not enough to really accept it in real life haha.

What's wrong with enjoying physical contact in a sexual way? :)

Let me give you my perspective on this. Nothing is sexual for me, not even sex. At a certain point I might actually succeed in having satisfying sex (with loads of loads of patience), but it would still not be sexual, only sensual for me.

Oh, agreed. Not that I would want to have sex, but there are probably things that could be done with me that many would consider to be sexual, but I would find them more "sensual."

This is exactly how I feel! I really like physical affection and there are some things I like or I wouldn't mind doing but others would think it's sexual or couple's behavior. Yet for me it's totally innocent or just sensual.

Also, as asexuals do any of you have physically close and affectionate but non-sexual relationships? What dose that look like?

Not sure how much on topic this is (as it concerns family relationships), but I have had a physically close and affectionate relationship with my sister for my (or rather, her) entire life. She's three years younger than me, and as kids, we used to do a lot of physical touches that I've commonly seen among siblings (well, those that are not at each other's necks all the time). When I say physical in this context, I mean things like holding hands, hugging and cuddling. We grew up in a loving family, and hugs/cuddling were very common between us kids and our parents, too. (Things like crawling into parents' bed on Sunday mornings to cuddle, sitting in a parent's lap, leaning against a parent on the sofa while watching TV together, etc.) Also now (my sister and I am in our twenties now), hugs and affectionate touches (ruffling hair, touching hands) are something normal and frequent in our entire family. Sometimes my sister and I also still hold hands and lean against one another for comfort. Naturally, these are affectionate touches among parents and kids and among siblings, so I am not sure how relevant they can be in the context of your question.

Still, I know that as social creatures, human beings usually need physical touch to feel happy. Affectionate touches are common among other social creatures as well (animals like horses, dogs, meercats, dolphins, monkeys, to name just a few). Animals that live in groups together often do affectionate touching and what could very well be called cuddling (for example, many animals take care of each other's fur, sleep next to other animals they like, etc). There are studies that say more and more people, especially in western societies it seems, are deprived of physical contact to other humans and get depressed because of that. Physical affection,also free of any sexual content, is a natural part of human relationships, I guess.

I think there is a lot of cultural influence in what is seen as sexual/romantic physical affection or just friendly touches. For example, I read that in some African countries it is common for good friends to hold hands in public. Holding hands is a sign/expression of friendship there, not of romance. In some cultures, it is common to kiss good friends or family members in greeting (also among male friends, something that would be seen as a gay act in Europe or the States by most people).

There are also different ideas on the progression of sexual relationships in different cultures. In some countries, kissing is considered normal at very early stages into a relationship, in others it is seen as 'one step before sex', kind of, so if two people start a relationship, one of them feels fine with kissing early, while their partner might feel like they are rushing things. Cultural backgrounds effect a lot of relationships and behavior.

With cultural expectations being a thing for all of us, it's probably best everyone in the relationship/friendship knows how the touch is meant as it can easily lead to misunderstandings and disappointment if one person thinks they are romantically or sexually approached, while the other person is only into a close friendship with lots of hugs.

TL;DR version: Affectionate physical touches are nowhere near to being necessarily sexual, I think they are a natural part of human bonding (any bonding, not exclusively pair bonding). How they are seen however is often influenced by cultural expectations.

It was helpful, thank you for taking the time to reply! Reading how others grew up and what was normal to them is helpful. Gives me a frame of reference. It's also good to be reminded that it's healthy and normal, as I personally do not get enough non sexual physical contact.

I have looked at other cultures too (different places or different times) and it's amazing how different cultures view physical affection. It's also kind of frustrating for culture to decide these things as if absolutes.

You're right about communicating. Thankfully I got into the topic about asexuality, comfort zones, affection with my friend, so we now have a better understanding of each other with cuddling. It was a much needed talk since we added massages/caressing to our cuddles (which we're both fine with as friends).

Cinnamon Biscuit, on 09 Feb 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

Also, as asexuals do any of you have physically close and affectionate but non-sexual relationships? What dose that look like?

During my teenage romances sex seemed unthinkable.<- I considered that decission girls' stuff & not my business.

Later (at almost 40) I wanted something similar again but it failed. - We made out, she wanted sex, got something like it and after that interruption we continued with the pleasant parts, rinsed & repeated... split.

I suppose the kink scene labels what we are looking for "tease and denial"? <- Some kind of sexual folks seem into that. - I have neither a clue nor experience but I guess if you manage to spot somebody who is into getting locked into chastity devices, you can have fun, at least for a while? Bondage freaks might be cuddly too?

I could imagine there is a grey zone with slightly bi-romantic non lesbians too? - Women seem a bit more liberal than the male homophobia excesses.

I don't know how things will work out for you and your partners, but being honest open and somewhat willing to compromise (maybe as in caressing a masturbating partner?) should help.

I guess that label might fit (tease and denial), but at the same time I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable with those kinks? Thinking about those kinks in terms of my friend kind of horrifies/repulses me.

I haven't had much luck with men hanging around if they know I'm not interested in dating them. So I kind of feel like it's near impossible to have a romantic relationship (even queerplatonic) with men. I kind of wish I could since I really enjoy male company. It's something I've missed since leaving college.

Yeah I always thought I'd have to compromise, since I want someone emotionally close I can cuddle with. Where others fear life without marriage or sex, I fear never having someone to cuddle! I feel like the odds of me finding someone I like, with complimenting personalities, similar world views, and similar sexulaities is nearly impossible. I guess if I ever get into a relationship that develops greater intimacy I'll have to figure out how we can accommodate each other.