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Fetish, Paraphilia and Paraphilic Disorder


soranotamashii

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soranotamashii

Hello, everyone!

So, my second post today.

I'm not sure about other places, but here in Brazil I've seen people who condemn certain paraphilias.

Of course there are sexual behaviors that are dangerous to society, and we must show that there are things that aren't acceptable, but I mean that sometimes people want to condemn the person for being [something]phile instead of condemning them for being a rapist (or dangerous in other ways).

I have a facebook page about asexuality and I also want to make a post about how paraphilias are different from sexual orientation and how what should be condemned in the raping and harassing rather than being [something]phile.

I'm not in the field of psychology, but I did some research and found the DSM-V explanation for asserting a paraphilia and diagnosing a paraphilic disorder. It seems to me that a paraphilia is an, sometimes more intense than others, atypical erotic interest in certain object, body-part or act, while a paraphilic disorder would be a parahilia with disorder-ish aspects and/or that envolver distress to the individual or to other people.

If someone here knows a better way to describe those and to differ them from sexual orientation and also from actually doing that [dangerous] sexual act, I want your help.

Thanks in advance.

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Ok so my understanding is that Paraphilic disorder involves things that would basically be considered "immoral/illegal" (sex with children, sex with animals, etc). Paraphilias, is more suited for a fetish in general (feet, BDSM, pregnant women, breasts, ass, legs, etc.). Sexual orientation is who you are (or not) attracted to in terms of femininity, masculinity, or lack thereof.

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Paraphillias are just another way to say fetish, and some paraphillia disorders are nothing more than a way to shame those the psychological community still dislikes. According to the DSM, Transvestic Disorder is a paraphilic disorder. But, people with this "disorder" hurt no one. Not themselves, and not society.

If the profession actually wants to make the term something meaningful it should be limited to people with conditions that make themselves a danger to themselves or others only.

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scarletlatitude

Usually these kinds of things are considered psychological disorders only when they significantly impact the rest of your life. For a non sexual example, I can say that I am sad but I might not necessarily be clinically depressed unless it impacts the rest of my life over a long period of time, if that makes sense.

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My view:

The sole term paraphilia is an insult, by the way there are pretty good reasons for a normal person to be depressed these days, severely depressed by what is going on in the world and where humanity is headed to.

And aren't they, the "self proclaimed normal" also paraphiliac about genitalia and breasts and hips and so on?

We are back to castrating homosexuals(check what happened to the guy that cracked the nazi secret communication machine, how he was "thanked").

And that "danger to themselves" - what about smokers or people speeding?

...if it's free then it's a disease that needs immediate medical attention, if it's running the gears of a multi-billion industry- it's "good for ya"

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soranotamashii

[..] If the profession actually wants to make the term something meaningful it should be limited to people with conditions that make themselves a danger to themselves or others only.

It sounds better that way to me. I don't know much about psychology, but I think I read somewhere that the study of paraphilias should help the judging of cases involving sexual assault, like who should be sent to a therapy (and jail), and who should be sent to jail.

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Paraphillias are just another way to say fetish, and some paraphillia disorders are nothing more than a way to shame those the psychological community still dislikes. According to the DSM, Transvestic Disorder is a paraphilic disorder. But, people with this "disorder" hurt no one. Not themselves, and not society.

If the profession actually wants to make the term something meaningful it should be limited to people with conditions that make themselves a danger to themselves or others only.

I was under the impression that a paraphillia is coined a "disorder" when it has a severe negative impact on the persons life. They cannot live properly due to the extent of their compulsion, day to day tasks become impossible, and the level of shame (not because of how society views the act, but inward shame) causes them severe emotional distress.

For example, I have a paraphillia for extreme biting (hard vore)..I have some more extreme ones but keeping it tame haha

If I couldn't be happy without this (being bitten, torn by a "predators" teeth) and lived in a state of deep shame, humiliation and self-hate because of it, to the extent that these feelings significantly impacted my life in many negative ways, I would have a paraphilic disorder.

In reply to the other point brought up by the OP, I believe orientation is *who* I want to do things with, paraphillia is what I want to do with that person.

Many fetishists I have met are pansexual, don't necessarily have a gender preference but absolutely love practicing their fetishes with others as *part* of the intimate act. Same would go for hetero, homo etc. One still has an orientation. Fetish is something you practice with other people for fun, pleasure etc.. the way some play sport for pleasure, just a lot more intimate and psychological haha.

When one lives through ones fetish though, has no orientation outside ones fetish, say only wants sex with animals or dead bodies, not interested in any "normal" form of intimacy aimed at people other than animals or dead bodies, this is when we are approaching on "disorder" if illegal acts are carried out or if the person lives in a significant state of distress even if they do not act on their desire. Wanting to wash ones hands a hundred times a day due to distress because of germs and living in distress and misery because of that is a disorder, same is true of a fetish if it causes the same levels of distress even if the focus is not illegal and/or no illegal acts are carried out.

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My view:

The sole term paraphilia is an insult, by the way there are pretty good reasons for a normal person to be depressed these days, severely depressed by what is going on in the world and where humanity is headed to.

And aren't they, the "self proclaimed normal" also paraphiliac about genitalia and breasts and hips and so on?

We are back to castrating homosexuals(check what happened to the guy that cracked the nazi secret communication machine, how he was "thanked").

And that "danger to themselves" - what about smokers or people speeding?

...if it's free then it's a disease that needs immediate medical attention, if it's running the gears of a multi-billion industry- it's "good for ya"

Spoilering this as TMI (discusses hard vorarephilia in some detail)

Paraphilia as a term on it's own doesn't actually mean one has a disorder, it means that one has erotic interest in acts that could be considered extreme or dangerous. For example, I have no qualms admitting that my desire to have my flesh torn by someones teeth, and for the torn flesh and blood to be consumed, ie being eaten alive, while I am bound so cannot fight back or stop it (which is one of my less extreme ones) is definitely a paraphilia haha. For me, it is a desire to literally be consumed by my lover, and to consume them through the consumption of their body and fluids also. It is an extreme act, potentially very dangerous, that I gain emotional pleasure from, and I think it's super hot too. That's not a ''normal'' sexual desire that would be carried out for pleasure between two consenting adults (though light biting is of course, very common).

However it would only be considered a disorder if it caused me severe emotional distress or if it was literally the *only* way I could gain pleasure and became obsessed with being eaten to the extent extreme harm could be done to my person causing risk to my life

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One Winged Angel

I personally would only consider a fetish to be problematic if illegal activies were practiced, or if the fetishist was negatively impacted by their desire, for example it was causing harm or distress (and thus they are likely to want rid of the fetish, making it a disorder in it's own way). Of course, there will always be some sexual activity which is simply unacceptable and if the fetishist is breaking the law, it is different story entirely.

You ask in your post how to differentiate fetishes from orientation and also from actually performing the actions. A first step is to think about the development of so called paraphilia's, something which can be a fascinating topic of thought for people with genuine fetishes. Conventional thought often favours an 'imprint' theory, where sexual thoughts are channelled into the fetish object by accident and therefore an association is made. Many fetishists read this kind of theory and try to place the origin of their desire. For most, it is very difficult to pinpoint such a 'first cause', and some fetishists are convinced that they have always had an interest in the fetish object.

Fetishes appear to be distinct from sexual orientation in that people from all orientations can share a fetish. The object of a fetish is usually an object or activity which brings sexual pleasure, rather than a sexual identity based around attraction. It is often independent of the participation of another and can be enjoyed both as part of a wider sexual experience, or as a solitary expression of one's desires.

There are multiple elephants in the room with discussion of fetishes and Asexuality. The first is whether a fetishist is experiencing a form of "sexual attraction" when confronted with their object/activity. It is clear that most true fetishists feel drawn to the object of their desire and can find it's stimulation intensely sexual. It may not be sexual attraction to a person per say, but some would believe that attraction to a fetish object is in itself sexual attraction.

Another grey area is whether actually performing the actions is in itself a form of sexual activity. Historically, fetishes were seen as dangerous and highly discouraged, for they could get in the way of "normal, healthy" relationships. In fact, any form of sexuality outside of heterosexual missionary sex was viewed with a sense of foreboding. In today's world, we are far more open about these matters, and one would hope far more accepting. In this regard, there are some schools of thought who regard the solitary vice of fetishism as one of many unique expressions of one's sexuality. By this theory, participation in a fetish would in and of itself be a type of sexual activity. In this way, saying "I'm a fetishist" would have a far greater meaning for those interested in identity politics.

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"...However it would only be considered a disorder if it caused me severe emotional distress or if..."

"...causing risk to my life..."

Are you familiar why the "I Robot" movie is "anti-utopian"/"dystopian" ?

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  • 2 months later...

Usually these kinds of things are considered psychological disorders only when they significantly impact the rest of your life. For a non sexual example, I can say that I am sad but I might not necessarily be clinically depressed unless it impacts the rest of my life over a long period of time, if that makes sense.

I replied to this post of yours saying something like there are good enough reasons to feel depressed by what is going on in the world these days.

I misunderstood what depression means, I thought it is something like the opposite of happy.

And from what I learn it maybe is something different, more like to see no point in anything or more correctly to care about nothing and be completely indifferent.

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ChillaKilla

My view:

The sole term paraphilia is an insult, by the way there are pretty good reasons for a normal person to be depressed these days, severely depressed by what is going on in the world and where humanity is headed to.

And aren't they, the "self proclaimed normal" also paraphiliac about genitalia and breasts and hips and so on?

We are back to castrating homosexuals(check what happened to the guy that cracked the nazi secret communication machine, how he was "thanked").

And that "danger to themselves" - what about smokers or people speeding?

...if it's free then it's a disease that needs immediate medical attention, if it's running the gears of a multi-billion industry- it's "good for ya"

Spoilering this as TMI (discusses hard vorarephilia in some detail)

Paraphilia as a term on it's own doesn't actually mean one has a disorder, it means that one has erotic interest in acts that could be considered extreme or dangerous. For example, I have no qualms admitting that my desire to have my flesh torn by someones teeth, and for the torn flesh and blood to be consumed, ie being eaten alive, while I am bound so cannot fight back or stop it (which is one of my less extreme ones) is definitely a paraphilia haha. For me, it is a desire to literally be consumed by my lover, and to consume them through the consumption of their body and fluids also. It is an extreme act, potentially very dangerous, that I gain emotional pleasure from, and I think it's super hot too. That's not a ''normal'' sexual desire that would be carried out for pleasure between two consenting adults (though light biting is of course, very common).

However it would only be considered a disorder if it caused me severe emotional distress or if it was literally the *only* way I could gain pleasure and became obsessed with being eaten to the extent extreme harm could be done to my person causing risk to my life

Potential TMI and a frankly personally embarassing comment ahead:

Okay I really feel more comfortable discussing this now that I see someone who has a very similar paraphilia to me. I've been into vorarephilia as long as I can remember. Seriously, I remember seeing stuff on TV and cartoons (Like Tom and Jerry) and being fascinated by the characters eating each other. I'm actually super embarrassed about it IRL, I've never told a single person, but it's honestly a big relief to get this out there, and it doesn't interfere with my life, so it's just another odd but harmless facet of my personality. FYI, I prefer soft instead of hard... Gore doesn't do anything for me personally.

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My view:

The sole term paraphilia is an insult, by the way there are pretty good reasons for a normal person to be depressed these days, severely depressed by what is going on in the world and where humanity is headed to.

And aren't they, the "self proclaimed normal" also paraphiliac about genitalia and breasts and hips and so on?

We are back to castrating homosexuals(check what happened to the guy that cracked the nazi secret communication machine, how he was "thanked").

And that "danger to themselves" - what about smokers or people speeding?

...if it's free then it's a disease that needs immediate medical attention, if it's running the gears of a multi-billion industry- it's "good for ya"

Spoilering this as TMI (discusses hard vorarephilia in some detail)

Paraphilia as a term on it's own doesn't actually mean one has a disorder, it means that one has erotic interest in acts that could be considered extreme or dangerous. For example, I have no qualms admitting that my desire to have my flesh torn by someones teeth, and for the torn flesh and blood to be consumed, ie being eaten alive, while I am bound so cannot fight back or stop it (which is one of my less extreme ones) is definitely a paraphilia haha. For me, it is a desire to literally be consumed by my lover, and to consume them through the consumption of their body and fluids also. It is an extreme act, potentially very dangerous, that I gain emotional pleasure from, and I think it's super hot too. That's not a ''normal'' sexual desire that would be carried out for pleasure between two consenting adults (though light biting is of course, very common).

However it would only be considered a disorder if it caused me severe emotional distress or if it was literally the *only* way I could gain pleasure and became obsessed with being eaten to the extent extreme harm could be done to my person causing risk to my life

Potential TMI and a frankly personally embarassing comment ahead:

Okay I really feel more comfortable discussing this now that I see someone who has a very similar paraphilia to me. I've been into vorarephilia as long as I can remember. Seriously, I remember seeing stuff on TV and cartoons (Like Tom and Jerry) and being fascinated by the characters eating each other. I'm actually super embarrassed about it IRL, I've never told a single person, but it's honestly a big relief to get this out there, and it doesn't interfere with my life, so it's just another odd but harmless facet of my personality. FYI, I prefer soft instead of hard... Gore doesn't do anything for me personally.

I see nothing too odd about that. I've had interest in a few things that could be considered fetishes, but I don't know if they would be considered full blown fetishes. Honestly, I can get sexually aroused by a lot of things I find extremely exciting or disturbing, more so than by people. I don't know if that means I'm attracted to those things or if my body just reacts that way when I feel really excited or scared.

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Potential TMI and a frankly personally embarassing comment ahead:

My notifications got messed up yesterday, so I didn't see your reply to me Chilla :o .. Fortunately M4rble quoted us and I got the notification for that today, or your reply would have gone unnoticed.

I am definitely into the ''hard'' kind, as that can potentially be explored between two consenting adults, which is awesome. The soft kind is more confined to the realms of fantasy (as far as I know) but it's still interesting and fascinating.

I think it's really important to be open about these things (any paraphilia or kink or whatever) and show that it's possible to feel this way without it being personally upsetting or shameful. Being able to show other people that one can experience these things and view it as ''perfectly fine'' I think is very healthy, because maybe they (the others) feel or want things like it too, but feel deeply personally ashamed because they think they are the only one. Then they see that others experience these same things, and realize that actually, what they are feeling and desiring, or what they are interested in or whatever, isn't actually a source of shame or humiliation, but something to be accepted and embraced, and maybe even explored further through art or writing, or in person if one happens to meet someone else interested in such things. It's very empowering.

Things that are considered ''disorders'' can sometimes start to be viewed as normal when it is seen that many people desire and enjoy them and don't see them as ''bad''. For example, anal and oral sex were considered ''crimes against nature'' for a long time, for various reasons, and were punishable by the law, but now those things are (mostly) considered normal and acceptable between consenting adults regardless of genders.

The only time I believe therapy should be sought for paraphilias or fetishes is when they are causing personal distress to the person, so a therapist can help them have a healthier perspective on their feelings. Or of course if it is something potentially dangerous to another humans well-being and autonomy, for example rape (outside of a consensual setting, because roleplaying rape with accepting adults is of course fine), child molestation, non-consenting torture etc, and the person feels they *must* act on this and can't fight it, then obviously help and treatment needs to be sought.

But yeah, before I started rambling, I was only trying to say that I think it's healthy when people can be open about their desires/interests etc, even when those seem ''odd'' because it just helps others view what they themselves desire/are interested in/fascinated by as more acceptable, when they see they aren't the only one who feels that way.

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ChillaKilla

But yeah, before I started rambling, I was only trying to say that I think it's healthy when people can be open about their desires/interests etc, even when those seem ''odd'' because it just helps others view what they themselves desire/are interested in/fascinated by as more acceptable, when they see they aren't the only one who feels that way.

Yes. Yes. All of my yes.

We (as in people in general) should have more open conversations about kinks and paraphilias. Like you said, it's healthy to be open about it, and hiding it and being ashamed like I was certainly didn't do my mental health any favors. Internalized kinshaming sucks, guys :/

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