Christianity and Your Experience

[Veilfire]

Hey guys. I wanted to ask you all about something.

After being raised in a pretty conservative household and then attending a Christian college I finally managed to get some space to figure out a philosophy for myself, one that is significantly different than what I usually find in conservative Christianity. In fact, I can't help but fixate sometimes on the harm Christianity has done over the last century or two and regret that I was so thoughtlessly committed to following a conservative doctrine in the past. The thing is that even though I doubt most Christians would see me as within the Christian ideology, there are a lot of things in my philosophy that are essentially borrowed from Christian thought (i.e. the universe was somehow born out of love, some kind of existence follows death, ect.). It kind of seems likely to me that there would be other people on here with a similar experience.

My question is about how other people have dealt with this kind of situation. Do you sometimes feel like you don't belong in any school of thought? Did you hold on to any teaching from a Christian upbringing, or was there for some reason too much hurt for you to want to keep that as part of your identity? Can you truly escape values that are implanted in you from childhood?

[Robin L]

Have you considered the possibility that you may have had these ideas even without the Christian upbringing

[dezdimona]

I was raised likewise and like any childhood where the human factor is injected there are things you like and things you can do without - for me that was often the rigid patriarchal structure that goes against how husbands are supposed to love their wives and instead they present themselves as the dictating force.... So many people are against christianity however I think the actual religion is meant to support a personal spiritual connection which is an amazing experience, a connection with God is so beautiful, can't be described.

Yes often religion, which is run by people (not interested in the spirituality but themselves and what they can get out of it) oversteps its boundaries from being a supporting institution to a dictating one. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I think of my childhood like I think of going to an all you can eat buffet where I take the spirituality(the veggies) but leave the legalism(the coleslaw) in the end I am the one making the decision and letting things have a say in my life not anyone else. After all it was the religious leaders of the time that schemed to kill Jesus Christ who also had nothing good to say about them doesn't mean faith in God should be thrown out. Please don't give up God,.

[Busrider]

Good point, Robin L!

My story: Parents rather lame i.e. far from fanatic Christians, Grandparents obviously "wilder. - I went to a Christian elementary school. During earlier highschool years I followed 2 class mates into their local church's youth group (one afternoon per week + 2 organized trips.)

To make the story shorter: I was brought up in the state supported German protestant Church. - It suffers from 2 flaws: The Ideology & stuff are on a Lutheran rational level. The priests pretty well paid don't have a need to ignite and rather ramble down something that doesn't step on anybody's toes.

A few years later I switched to a for me back then sufficiently fanatic political belief that expected atheism. - Over the years religious studies at school were lso taught by what I'd consider ultra liberal Christians. When I got my first tax free mini job after school they hinted what church tax would have been and I rushed to court to leave church. I liked the cheap beer at a catholic students' church's bar. - But the priest telling me about his marriage plans of course failed to plant belief into me.

TBH: I can't get Christianity out of my bones. - If you ride recklessly with me on the rear seat, I'll probably start praying.

Philosophy? - I have no answers for some of the biggest religion related questions. - But I live happily without any substitute for knowing why humanity happens to exist. Life after death? - If I am lucky I'll plant a few ideas or memories into heads outliving me. - Do I need more?

Sometimes I borrow Christian stuff for arguing.

Escaping upbringing: IDK if its an option. - I see shit like sharing / charity planted too deep into myself. - I have big problems charging arms & legs for services or not contributing when asked (in most fields).

I guess I'd be able to adopt another religion on the surface to fit into a family I'd found. But that would mainly fill a vacuum that I have, I didn't really ever experience religious community.

I don't feel a need to belong into one though.

Schools of thought: Epicurus or Seneca seem not hard to follow according to what I'm recalling from my Latin lessons. - A bit of apathetic Marxism Leninism fills remaining gaps.

[Starlit Sky]

Well . . . I don't really worry about it too much, to be honest with you. I am Christian, but not Conservative. I believe in God. I love reading the Bible (primarily because I just enjoy reading things from that time period, though) and I do believe in some of the teachings, but I don't necessarily put my faith in the Bible. Translations of translations of translations--things are obviously going to be mistranslated at some point. I pray to God, and I help myself. Sometimes I feel like He helps me. I am grateful for what he has given me.

I've had the opportunity to attend an extremely liberal church before, which I suppose is what gives me a liberal view on Christianity in the first place. What other Christians have done is in no way my fault, and anything utterly stupid I've said before regarding Christianity (whether directly or indirectly) is now in the past, and I have learned better. :)

[SithLord]

I was raised Christian (Lutheran to be more specific) but my family started disliking churches because of bad experiences in the past and eventually stopped attending church every week like they did before. My parents still identify as Lutheran and will go to church on Easter and Christmas, I'm not sure about my brother, my sister will still go occasionally with friends, and I identify as deist.

Deism is the belief in a creator but one that hasn't interfered in life since creation. I couldn't get over my hate for the church as an institution that the Bible covers, my parents experienced, and I was taught in high school and college classes. I can't get over my belief in God, however, despite my constant doubts about his/her existence and so I won't call myself agnostic or atheist, and I definitely believe in a form of existence after death though I'm not sure what that would be. I do highly doubt quite a lot from the Bible which includes biased quotes saying two men shouldn't be in a relationship, you shouldn't eat certain kinds of meat, miracles that imply God interfered directly in Earth's fate (i.e. Noah and the flood), etc.

I don't care if I qualify as Christian anymore. I don't care if my religious beliefs make the prospect of raising kids with my bf difficult (parents will prob want kids raised Christian though agnostic/atheist bf wants them to not be forced or brainwashed into going to church while I don't give a shit either way). I am who I am, and I know I am this way partly because of my Christian upbringing but I don't let that bother me.

[Starlit Sky]

I don't care if I qualify as Christian anymore. I don't care if my religious beliefs make the prospect of raising kids with my bf difficult (parents will prob want kids raised Christian though agnostic/atheist bf wants them to not be forced or brainwashed into going to church while I don't give a shit either way). I am who I am, and I know I am this way partly because of my Christian upbringing but I don't let that bother me.

My mom's Christian, but my dad was agnostic. If, when you have kids, your parents are super RAISE THEM CHRISTIAN, perhaps you and your boyfriend can do what my parents did . . . which was teach me about various religions, as well as agnosticism, etc. I'm sure that wouldn't make your parents overly happy and actually this is probably pretty awful advice . . . but it did work out relatively well for my mom and my grandparents, so maybe it would for y'all, too. :P

[HoneyBadger97]

I've got mixed feelings about my experience with Christianity. My Mums Catholic and my Dads technically Protestant neither are particulary religious but I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school. When I was younger I believed what my teachers told me about religion to the letter but I became more skeptical by high school age and when I was 16 I went through a phase of disliking the religion because of some of the conservative and downright homophobic things in our curriculum that year. I felt a whole lot better about it the next year though as myreligious lessons that year where more about loving everyone andhelping the community and I ended up volunteering in the church for a year.

All in all I don't know whether I believe in God or not but still find my self praying in some times of trouble. I stand for some but not all the things the church stands for and oppose a few and no matter what I end up believing in years to come Chrstianity and Catholocism will always be part of me.

[m02a16ds]

Just a kindly reminder TWIMC, that it's 100% okay to not call yourself Christian anymore, if you still believe in some non-specific Higher Power and give due to your cultural heritage, but no longer acknowledge Christ's divinity. Honesty is the best policy. This way you won't misinform anyone and spare yourself the talks you're most likely uncomfortable with.

It's been a sore point with me for a while, because 90% of people in my geographical vicinity, who publicly identify as "Christians", solely mean that their ethnic and cultural background was influenced by Christianity back in the days of yore, and not only do they not practice, but do not believe that Jesus is God or even exists, and they never have. This leads to confusion and unwanted grudge, when later I converse with a like-minded believer (or so I am told) and, simply by mentioning the basics of faith we ostensibly share, I am all of a sudden an obscurantist who's stuck in the Middle Ages.

[Guest]

Just a kindly reminder TWIMC, that it's 100% okay to not call yourself Christian anymore, if you still believe in some non-specific Higher Power and give due to your cultural heritage, but no longer acknowledge Christ's divinity. Honesty is the best policy. This way you won't misinform anyone and spare yourself the talks you're most likely uncomfortable with.

This.

I haven't identified as Christian for a long, long time (even though I didn't have the guts to actually formally leave RomCath while my father was still alive... only made that last formal step in 2003, IIRC). I'm still a spiritual person with a very strong faith in the entity I call god, even when my personal faith is pretty syncretistic and owes at least as much to Buddhism than to Christianity. There's no shame whatsoever in leaving a path you don't see fitting for yourself anymore, and walking with your head held high on another path that fits you better. If anything, it's a shame to be made felt ashamed for that.

You having that choice is just freedom of religion at work... and it's no secret that that's one of the values I most passionately hold dear.

[Peachyy]

Hey guys. I wanted to ask you all about something.

After being raised in a pretty conservative household and then attending a Christian college I finally managed to get some space to figure out a philosophy for myself, one that is significantly different than what I usually find in conservative Christianity. In fact, I can't help but fixate sometimes on the harm Christianity has done over the last century or two and regret that I was so thoughtlessly committed to following a conservative doctrine in the past. The thing is that even though I doubt most Christians would see me as within the Christian ideology, there are a lot of things in my philosophy that are essentially borrowed from Christian thought (i.e. the universe was somehow born out of love, some kind of existence follows death, ect.). It kind of seems likely to me that there would be other people on here with a similar experience.

My question is about how other people have dealt with this kind of situation. Do you sometimes feel like you don't belong in any school of thought? Did you hold on to any teaching from a Christian upbringing, or was there for some reason too much hurt for you to want to keep that as part of your identity? Can you truly escape values that are implanted in you from childhood?

Apples, oranges.

My grandfather had been straight from Germany so my mother said they were "Catholic" because he was, and my grandmother has been struggling with the concept of religion, faith, existence type-things ever since he died because she was raised in that way, married someone like that, and followed others into the religion; and she's 80 years old and just now exploring. One side of my family is deeply religious and they've noted that she prays when she's with them; when she's with my family, she doesn't. Christianity is just around the bend with my parents. My mother is tormented about the fact that the priest who married them was taken out of the parish a few years later. Religion is still on the mind and I don't think you stop remembering teachings like that when you're no longer being brought to church by someone else. Such as, my father's concept of "god" is only the Christian God, despite knowing that there are many other propositions for the intelligent designer. Especially teachings that have to do with how you view the world and abstract ideas of what the afterlife is, or souls, or moral truth--things that you can't touch and contemplate outside of your mind. Those things are topics to think about and its difficult to stop accepting what you thought was true. Everyone is somewhat molded by their childhood experiences, but your experiences in adulthood contribute greatly. Children are not mindless sponges and adults are not old dogs. Not to say that childhood can't condition you.

And for what it's worth, I think not being a part of any certain schools of thought is a great place to be. As is to have multiple sources to help define how you see yourself, others, the world, etc. If you like something from Christianity and hate something else, you don't have to find another source for that good idea to mean something.

[Skycaptain]

I'll approach this from a different angle. My grandparents were all devout believers. My parents are atheists. Everyone gave me the freedom to choose my belief structure. Primary school was very Christian based, as was secondary school. The end result has been that everything the schools tried to say merely increased my antitheist tendencies.

Being non-confrortational by nature, it's probable that a softly softly approach may have interested me in religion, but having it forced upon me merely triggered my rebellious street and made me totally against anything to do with religion

[fairytalefanfor1]

Christianity is not the problem, conservatism is. I am christian, but not conservative. I cannot tell you how hurtful and challenging it can be to live in a very republican heteronormative area of the nation as a idenpendent and a demiromantic asexual. My folks have invalidated me and my peers have discriminated me. I almost turned away from God because that was the excuse they used. I wanted to die at one point. But I thank Him that he brought me back to realize what the truth was even with lies being told about sexuality in my circles. Now I have a wonderful relationship with my God, who loves me for who I am and encourages me to be myself every day. More people in my life are coming to support and accept me. See, even through hardship with LGBT+ persecution, you can make it through. It is the idiots and jerks who are invading churches and ruining Christianity.

[(A) & A]

I've heard people (as one above me said) it's not Christianity, but conservationism, and that's just patently false. It's just a liberal mindset will not do the harms Christianity demands.

Except Christianity, at its core, is a religion that demands mercy. If you've read the Bible from front to back, you'd know that Jesus called for his followers to not respond with violence, but love. He told them to sell everything they had to give to the poor and was highly critical of the rich. He even said, whoever did not show love to the sick, the poor, and the imprisoned did not know him - and that he would prepare a place for them with the Devil and his angels.

I don't consider myself Christian. The Catholicism of my parents influenced me, but I don't do religion. Buddhism has heavily influenced me. So did anarchism. That being said...

Maybe you should look into people like Dorothy Day or Ammon Hennacy. Maybe you should look into organizations like the Catholic Worker Movement or the Plowshare Movement. The idea that Christianity is inherently conservative is something that the American right love to paint, and because of the whole abortion thing, they totally managed to hijack, but it's not true.

[Guest]

I've heard people (as one above me said) it's not Christianity, but conservationism, and that's just patently false. It's just a liberal mindset will not do the harms Christianity demands.

Except Christianity, at its core, is a religion that demands mercy. If you've read the Bible from front to back, you'd know that Jesus called for his followers to not respond with violence, but love. He told them to sell everything they had to give to the poor and was highly critical of the rich. He even said, whoever did not show love to the sick, the poor, and the imprisoned did not know him - and that he would prepare a place for them with the Devil and his angels.

I don't consider myself Christian. The Catholicism of my parents influenced me, but I don't do religion. Buddhism has heavily influenced me. So did anarchism. That being said...

Maybe you should look into people like Dorothy Day or Ammon Hennacy. Maybe you should look into organizations like the Catholic Worker Movement or the Plowshare Movement. The idea that Christianity is inherently conservative is something that the American right love to paint, and because of the whole abortion thing, they totally managed to hijack, but it's not true.

If there ever will be any such thing as a "Second Coming of Christ", the US Christian Right would likely be the very first to denounce the returned guy from Nazareth as a "godless Commie" (with suspiciously brownish skin, to boot).

[(A) & A]

If there ever will be any such thing as a "Second Coming of Christ", the US Christian Right would likely be the very first to denounce the returned guy from Nazareth as a "godless Commie" (with suspiciously brownish skin, to boot).

To quote the late, great Lemmy Kilmister. "God is on your side, but I don't think that you're on his / If Jesus came back now he'd be in jail in a week"

[Amedot]

I was not raised religious, I'm an agnostic atheist. I have a couple friends who were raised religious and they left the church and feel comfortable about what they identify as now. One friend in particular was raised by a strict Catholic father, who instilled a lot of bigotry into his daughters. But my dad is a militant atheist, and he has instilled a lot of bigotry into myself and my brother. Growing beyond what our parents raised us with is apart of growing up. It's difficult to look at our parents and see their flaws and see what mistakes they have made raising us, and it's difficult to address these mistakes and grow beyond them. But it can be done.

Horrible things are done by people, not by belief systems. Human nature is flawed, and there are extremists and terrorist organizations everywhere. The KKK doesn't represent the tenants of Christianity the same way ISIS doesn't represent Islam; both are extremist religious groups and both represent the flaws of humanity, not the religion associated with them.

[Velma]

I was raised in a very religious yet very intellectual family. The church we attended ran the services like a university class rather than a typical church service. I never felt deeply spiritual about the religion, but I really liked it. I wanted to be a theologian. I wanted to study at seminary and get a doctorate in divinity. I didn't really want to be a minister. But I thought maybe I'd pick up Aramaic or Koine Greek and do translations or something.

I left Christianity because after studying and reading, I realized there was no evidence at all that Jesus ever existed. I heard someone say this and I sought out to disprove it. But I kept finding more and more evidence that there may have been a Jesus person, but he never was arrested. He never was crucified. He was never buried. So he probably didn't rise from the dead.

I know people say that a lack of evidence doesn't disprove existence. If the records were scant and spotty from that time period, I'd agree that it was just a mystery. But there are quite a few remaining arrest and execution records. There are many accounts of what was happening at that time period. Jesus never comes up. There's not even some person that may be a Jesus character with a different name.

You get to Apostle Paul, for instance, you can find all kinds of proof of his existence. You can even travel to the sites where he built all those churches and went to prison. It's fairly detailed even with nearly two thousand years of time passing. As for Jesus? Nothing.

There are many other religions that have solid evidence that their founder or most important figure really existed. Everyone knows that Buddha was a real person. He predates Christianity by over 600 years. They even know the exact year he was born, 642 BC. There are records not only that he existed, there are records that he really was in all of the places that people claim he travelled to. You can actually stand near or right next to where he sat under the Bodhi tree and became enlightened. I don't know if the tree is the same one, but there is a tree there today. That's solid. It's real.

Muhammad really existed. The Shia and Sunni were founded by his two sons. Nobody disputes that. I don't think the mountain really came to meet him, but he's a real guy. I could go on and on with more examples.

Why would I choose to follow and believe some religion that I can't completely disprove, when there are so many religions in the world with solid proof that the stories and people involved were real?r

[fuzzipueo]

I never really glommed on to Christian teachings. Even as a kid, I always felt there was something off about the whole organized religion thing that really set my teeth on edge. I'd get invited to Sunday school and sometimes church proper by neighbors and would go, but I would sit through the class or sermon bored out of my mind by stuff that just didn't appeal. I also don't like the idea of having some guy, who doesn't know me, standing at his pulpit telling me how I should live my life, how I should believe, and how I should spend my money. I like my quiet Sundays sans the religious dogma.

These days, if someone goes off on "Jesus this and Jesus that" or, as tends to happen in comments sections of articles about subject sure to bring out the worst ones, about how "if you give yourself over to God" you'll find your life so much better, I grit my teeth and move on past them as quickly as possible because for all the sincerity in those posts, they can't help but come off as condescending or holier than thou.

[(A) & A]

I've heard people (as one above me said) it's not Christianity, but conservationism, and that's just patently false. It's just a liberal mindset will not do the harms Christianity demands.

Except Christianity, at its core, is a religion that demands mercy. If you've read the Bible from front to back, you'd know that Jesus called for his followers to not respond with violence, but love. He told them to sell everything they had to give to the poor and was highly critical of the rich. He even said, whoever did not show love to the sick, the poor, and the imprisoned did not know him - and that he would prepare a place for them with the Devil and his angels.

I don't consider myself Christian. The Catholicism of my parents influenced me, but I don't do religion. Buddhism has heavily influenced me. So did anarchism. That being said...

Maybe you should look into people like Dorothy Day or Ammon Hennacy. Maybe you should look into organizations like the Catholic Worker Movement or the Plowshare Movement. The idea that Christianity is inherently conservative is something that the American right love to paint, and because of the whole abortion thing, they totally managed to hijack, but it's not true.

Jesus' word contradicts that of the laws of the old, and he also spoke of not bringing peace and that the laws of old still remain. Mercy? Tell me, what mercy is there in being told you're a broken clock and it's your fault ,and you must be forgiven or you will parish for eternity in a lake of fire and brim stone, and that in order to be forgiven, you have to accept a human sacrifice rather than actual forgiveness upon actual realization of your transgressions and regret of them? It's not a religion of mercy, it's a god damn blood cult that prides itself on "forgiveness" from a human sacrifice.

He also said he would come to take you from your family, and that you should love him more than any of your family.

Highly critical of the rich doesn't make it an inherently good book, nor inherent perfectly good morals.

No one said Christiana is inherently conservative, I said that the bad conservatives do come from them being more literal to the text than liberal minded people.

I'm not saying that there are not contradictions, although the whole bit about him not coming to bring peace is likely misprinted. Most of what he spoke of would have been considered dissent; something that wouldn't be well received by land occupied by Rome. The following persecution of of early Christians by the empire seems to prove that. But those are a few select passages and at least not what I took away when reading the gospels.

But you're right. Being critical of the rich isn't inherently moral. However feeding those who are hungry, clothing those that are naked, helping the sick, and showing compassion to those who are already in a dehumanizing position are all things most people would claim are moral. Also, don't mistake the teachings of organized religion, which often has political agendas, with the heart of the spiritual essence of religion.

All religion, with a few exceptions of left hand path beliefs, tend to be about love. While the followers of all religions often fail in this, it isn't something exclusive to religion. The internet is filled with atheists that have all the self-righteousness of a televangelist. Hell, you can't even say atheists never killed anyone considering communist regimes, whose anti-religious interpretations of their ideology drove them to hurt others.

The problem isn't religion. It's unwavering conviction to religious dogma. Dogma is the problem and it doesn't exist exclusively in religion.

But again, before you judge Christianity for the assholes you encounter, read up on the good example of Christianity and Christian organizations; Dorothy Day, Ammon Hennacy, the Catholic Worker Movement, and the Plowshare Movement as examples. Educate yourself, even on things you don't think you like - you might be surprised with what you discover.

[cuppa차]

I was also born and raised christian, and am at the point in my life where i have to decide what college to go to. Obviously I'm being pressured to attend a Christian college, with my grandparents going so far as to offer $10,000 for my tuition and books and junk if I attend one.

I've also been having my doubts though. Not so much that God (or a god) doesn't exist, but rather questioning certain practices and choices made by the god of the Bible. It's actually very scary to believe in a God but not some of his teachings. But it's equally scary to think that if there is no afterlife or God, I've wasted my precious life away worshiping an idol.

Generally I've had mixed experiences with Christianity. The church I "attend" now is very loving and I love all of the people there and they're so willing to help and are so kind (if maybe for, what I might consider, the wrong reasons.) However I used to live in the Bible Belt and the experience with Christianity there is ultimately what started my drifting away. Many of them there are very exclusive, and don't do so much for their community as Christians should according to the Bible. It was a very wealthy and big congregation but they did rather little hands-on service, which frustrated me.

Another issue is that many Christians, especially Bible Belt Christians, blindly accept all that the Bible says with little thought. And yet the Bible expects you to accept it that way; but that's not how humans are naturally built, myself included. I don't want to suppress my curiosity.

/rant

[Guest]

He also said he would come to take you from your family, and that you should love him more than any of your family.

Not that that's a bad thing. I find the sentiment of "your true family is those who share your values and beliefs, not those who share your blood and genes" immensely appealing.

Of course, this clashes one heck of a lot with conservative views of "family values".

[cuppa차]

He also said he would come to take you from your family, and that you should love him more than any of your family.

Not that that's a bad thing. I find the sentiment of "your true family is those who share your values and beliefs, not those who share your blood and genes" immensely appealing.

Of course, this clashes one heck of a lot with conservative views of "family values".

What was that quote? I think it goes "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb."

[Batman's Ace]

He also said he would come to take you from your family, and that you should love him more than any of your family.

Not that that's a bad thing. I find the sentiment of "your true family is those who share your values and beliefs, not those who share your blood and genes" immensely appealing.

Of course, this clashes one heck of a lot with conservative views of "family values".

There's definitely a problem with "family values" when it gets to be too much of a priority. Like, are people Christians, or Familyans? Nobody can even define "family values" for me, which I get annoyed at.

Anyway, I agree, Mysticus. And that view is supported in the Bible. Mark 3:31-35, where Jesus' mom and brothers show up, and he says his family is whoever does God's will. (the story is also in Matthew and Luke) I wish more people paid attention to that story. It would save so many people the grief that comes from placing genetic bonds on a pedestal.

[Guest]

Anyway, I agree, Mysticus. And that view is supported in the Bible. Mark 3:31-35, where Jesus' mom and brothers show up, and he says his family is whoever does God's will. (the story is also in Matthew and Luke) I wish more people paid attention to that story. It would save so many people the grief that comes from placing genetic bonds on a pedestal.

Yep, that's the exact bit I had in mind when I made the post. I was just too lazy to look up the verse, myself. ;)

[Telecaster68]

And yet the Bible expects you to accept it that way

Actually, those particular churches expect you to accept the bible that way - the older, non-evangelical ones tend to see texts as things you engage with and interrogate for wisdom rather than take a face value (which is tricky, seeing as it's so contradictory anyway, and absolutely all believers pick and choose which bits they want to follow. There's no alternative.)

[EmilyKay]

I'm a preacher's kid of the more conservative/Reformed Presbyterian church. I grew up going to church every Sunday and church activities on Wednesdays. I went to Christian schools. In college I joined a Christian group on campus that became my entire social life. After college, I moved away and stopped going to church because it reminded me of my friends in college and that made me homesick. And then I moved to another state and tried to find a church, but there weren't any I connected with. I haven't regularly attended church in about 3 years.

I was raised very conservative and grew up buying into those beliefs. Then I became a social work major and my beliefs started to become more liberal. I still believe in God and Christ. I consider myself a Calvinist. But I accept LGBT+ and feel that Christians are called to love others, not judge and condemn them. I feel that women and men and all other genders are equal in the church and God's eyes. I feel that the church is called to love everyone, not just those who claim to also be Christian.

I would say that my personal belief right now is that Ghandi quote: "I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians." I hate that some Christians try to force their beliefs and values on others. I hate that some Christians think it's justified to be prejudiced and racist. I hate that some Christians use the Bible and their beliefs to spiritually abuse others.

I'm hopeful that one day I'll be able to find a church where I can feel comfortable; where I won't be hesitant to identify as Christian due to not wanting to be associated with the more conservative values of Christianity.

[SorryNotSorry]

I don't think I ever had it in me to be Christian---or any kind of theist---to begin with.

For one thing, to really believe, one has to believe in magic---that a bunch of things can happen that aren't physically possible.

For another, neither Christianity nor any other religion has me sold on the concept of Heaven, descriptions of which sound to me more like either a theocratic dictatorship or a pleasure-house full of depravities that beggar description.

[Guest]

For another, neither Christianity nor any other religion has me sold on the concept of Heaven, descriptions of which sound to me more like either a theocratic dictatorship or a pleasure-house full of depravities that beggar description.

You say that as if it's a bad thing. :p

While representative theocracies are shitholes, direct theocracy is easily the best possible form of government I can imagine. No other form of state even has the remotest chance of being nearly as objectively morally good, and I'd be extremely grateful for the chance to blindly obey an objectively divine supreme overlord, whose every command is objectively better than anything a mere human could come up with. (Needless to say, that's a chance which this physical world currently does not offer in the least, as there are no - as in zero, zip, zilch - objectively verified divine commandments around to follow.)

[Sally]

direct theocracy is easily the best possible form of government I can imagine.

You mean like Iran?