The A Is For Asexual

[GreenWithEnby]

Ok, so, I was talking to my friends recently (who know about my Asexuality), and they sent me a link to an article (I will put the link at the bottom if anyone wants to check it out) called 'Invitation to Fight Me : The A in LGBTQA Should Not Be For Allies'. It went on to explain that there is nothing wrong with Allies, but that the acronym is for identities, and 'Ally' isn't an identity.

Ally

A straight ally or heterosexual ally is a heterosexual and/or cisgender person who supports equal civil rights, gender equality,LGBT social movements, and challenges homophobia, biphobia and transphobia.

That is someone being a good person, but is it so much more important than Asexuality that it should be considered more of an identity?

I just don't understand. If people thought Bisexual invisibility was bad, they've never met an Asexual. And most people who do meet Asexuals say that all of it just stems from Sexual trauma. While some of that is true, not all of it. In fact, I was talking to my mom recently, and she already has a hard time accepting Asexuality. As a Psychology professor, she was quick to write it off as trauma. After my sister and I managed to get her more open minded about it, I casually mentioned Aromanticism. She imminently told me that it was NOT natural, and, although I am not Aromantic, I attempted to calm her down. Although she is very open minded (a libertarian), she still couldn't wrap her mind around it. That rant was off topic, but I have a question for everyone on AVEN willing to answer.

How many people do you think use Ally in favor of Asexual? And do you feel invisible?

(And, although I love AVEN to death, if I tried to join the LGBT page because of my romantic identities, would I be told to go back to AVEN?)

(The link : http://umphie.kinja.com/invitation-to-fight-me-the-a-in-lgbtqa-should-not-be-f-1467421955 )

[The Great WTF]

The A has stood for Ally since the 80s if not the 70s. It's ingrained in people's minds and as far as I'm concerned it's not our place to butt in and say "This letter is ours now." Many people on the LGBT+ community are happy to say it stands for both as well as androgyn and/or agender.

Having said that, the extended alphabet soup DOES include multiple As and asexual is one of them.

[GreenWithEnby]

Still, I would think that, as Asexuality is a sexual identity, shouldn't it receive more recognition? We are practically invisible. And, yes, the extended acronym DOES have (I believe) two As in it. However, the most commonly used acronyms (at least where I live) are LGBT and LGBTQ.

[AVEN #1 fan]

I think the A is for:

Asexual

Aromantic

Aegosexual or autochorisexual

Aegoromantic or autochorisromantic

Agender

Androgyne

Autosexual

Autoromantic

Abroromantic

Abrosexual

Apressexual

Apresromantic

Aroflux

Aceflux

Androsexual

Androromantic

Androgynosexual or ambisexual

Androgynoromantic or ambiromantic

Apothisexual

Apothiromantic

Antisexual

Antiromantic

Aposexual or akio(ne)sexual

Aporomantic or akio(ne)romantic

Alterous

Apathosexual

Apathromantic

Arovague

Acevague

Acosexual

Acoromantic

Adfecturomantic, Affecturomantic, adfectual or adfomantic

Any other queeries?

To be honest, LGBT doesn't care for all the queeries, only for the first 4 letters bc they suffer the most.

[The Great WTF]

Of course the most commonly used are going to be the simplest and longest standing. Who wants to try to say or even try to remember LGBTQIAA2P or one of it's many variants? There's a reason people are gravitating more towards terms like queer community or GSM.

Visibility takes time. Getting people to learn and accept new things takes time. The LGBT community has had decades to get where they are and they've dealt with issues much more severe than most of us have or will ever have to face. And, contrary to the internet and tumblr, many, many LGBT groups DO accept and embrace asexuals. Just because we don't get a front runner spot in the acronym and the vocal assholes don't like us doesn't mean they're erasing us completely.

[Snao Cone]

To be honest, LGBT doesn't care for all the queeries, only for the first 4 letters bc they suffer the most.

Yeah, that's important to keep in mind. They were the first fighters for rights, and they had to be because they were more easily singled out and discriminated against. Education and awareness is important for all angles of sexual and gender diversity, but LGBT people were specifically oppressed.

[The Great WTF]

To be honest, LGBT doesn't care for all the queeries, only for the first 4 letters bc they suffer the most.

Yeah, that's important to keep in mind. They were the first fighters for rights, and they had to be because they were more easily singled out and discriminated against. Education and awareness is important for all angles of sexual and gender diversity, but LGBT people were specifically oppressed.

^This is true. They still suffer for what they are in ways that most asexuals will never have to deal with. I think that is something that needs to be respected and acknowledged and often gets passed over by asexuals in their rush to be included.

[Snao Cone]

Oh, and I think "ally" was more important in previous decades when there was widespread discrimination without any legal rights and it was controversial for cishet people to actively support that fight. It's much more common to be accepting and supportive of gender and sexual minorities, so that's lost significance.

[Tarfeather]

Didn't we have this thread already?

[AVEN #1 fan]

To be honest, LGBT doesn't care for all the queeries, only for the first 4 letters bc they suffer the most.

Yeah, that's important to keep in mind. They were the first fighters for rights, and they had to be because they were more easily singled out and discriminated against. Education and awareness is important for all angles of sexual and gender diversity, but LGBT people were specifically oppressed.

^This is true. They still suffer for what they are in ways that most asexuals will never have to deal with. I think that is something that needs to be respected and acknowledged and often gets passed over by asexuals in their rush to be included.

Let's keep in mind also that LGBT isn't the only movement that fights for visibility, we have the sexless, the genderless, the intersex and the feminist movements out there too.

[smol grandpa]

honestly, i just tried to do some digging into the origins of the term, and considering it started as "LGB" an has since been altered to fit more identities, i don't see why the A can't stand for both. even other acronyms that have come up to be more encompassing let the letters stand for multiple things.

i don't think allies see the same kind of discrimination these days as they once did, and they can (i won't say will, but can) just "turn off" their support if they need to in order to avoid said discrimination. for most of us, we can't just turn our identities off. and i've seriously only been "out" a handful of months and have already seen so much acephobia directed at me, it's just unreal. i never got made fun of or shouted at or heavily questioned for supporting other queer people when i was identifying as "straight."

i guess i've never worried much about it because i've always called it the LGBTQIA+ community, and i do associate with the term queer now (i felt like it aptly described my romantic inclinations and my non-sexual inclinations), but i know not everyone appreciates the word and that for some it can be very triggering so it's not as though i encourage everyone to feel as though they're "represented" there, but it works for me. but i don't think it's outlandish to want to be included in the community somehow. as it stands, i feel like the "debate" about the "A" is only standing to separate people more when we could just be using dialogue to include any "A" that may fit.

but i'm also fresh in this so i only have my green opinions to share.

[AceWolf]

The thing is we can't just go barging in and 'take the letter' if it has already been taken, why should the it be changed just because we don't like it. I don't see why Ally is there as you have said its not an identity but it was there first. The thing is LGBTQA is long enough as it is if other identities keep getting added its going to get so long nobody is going to take any of them seriously. Yes, asexuality is pretty much invisible and dismissed as 'not real' but I'm sure there are other ways to get visibility/awareness other than trying to push ourselves into LGBT all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there another acronym for asexuality, aromatics, intersex, agender etc?

Personally I'm not bothered whether we are in it or not I would actually prefer it if we had a separate acronym.

[AVEN #1 fan]

The thing is we can't just go barging in and 'take the letter' if it has already been taken, why should the it be changed just because we don't like it. I don't see why Ally is there as you have said its not an identity but it was there first. The thing is LGBTQA is long enough as it is if other identities keep getting added its going to get so long nobody is going to take any of them seriously. Yes, asexuality is pretty much invisible and dismissed as 'not real' but I'm sure there are other ways to get visibility/awareness other than trying to push ourselves into LGBT all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there another acronym for asexuality, aromatics, intersex, agender etc?

Personally I'm not bothered whether we are in it or not I would actually prefer it if we had a separate acronym.

Can't LGBT just change it's name so nobody feels excluded? Why don't we call it "Queertopia" or "Queerist movement."

[AceWolf]

The thing is we can't just go barging in and 'take the letter' if it has already been taken, why should the it be changed just because we don't like it. I don't see why Ally is there as you have said its not an identity but it was there first. The thing is LGBTQA is long enough as it is if other identities keep getting added its going to get so long nobody is going to take any of them seriously. Yes, asexuality is pretty much invisible and dismissed as 'not real' but I'm sure there are other ways to get visibility/awareness other than trying to push ourselves into LGBT all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there another acronym for asexuality, aromatics, intersex, agender etc?

Personally I'm not bothered whether we are in it or not I would actually prefer it if we had a separate acronym.

Can't LGBT just change it's name so nobody feels excluded? Why don't we call it "Queertopia" or "Queerist movement."

Because people hate change, I don't think LGBT would ever be changed that radically. Also a lot people don't like being called queer or identifying as queer because is often used as an insult and has a lot of negativity for some people. So those people would feel excluded. I think whatever you call it there is always someone is going to feel excluded I don't think its the name of the group that matters but the people in it. There a lot of LGBT people who are supportive of asexuals and other identities.

[binary suns]

I think it's a shame when a group wants to segregate themselves from others

[m02a16ds]

To be honest, LGBT doesn't care for all the queeries, only for the first 4 letters

To be even more honest? First 2.

[Snao Cone]

To be honest, LGBT doesn't care for all the queeries, only for the first 4 letters

To be even more honest? First 2.

Yeah, there are some problems of biphobia or dismissal of bisexuality among a fraction of the lesbian and gay population. There are some serious issues with trans exclusion too. Gender and sexuality aren't as intertwined as the LGBT acronym might suggest, but the gay and trans populations generally aligned as a community because they were discriminated against on a similar basis.

Look at the history of LGBT rights - the Stonewall Riots were a HUGE turning point and there was a major presence of transwomen there. Yet when gay rights tried a more conservative angle of gay couples wanting to be just like straight couples, that movement didn't hesitate to throw trans people under the bus. Even between gay men and lesbians, there were some fractures between their activism in the 1970s.

[m02a16ds]

You won't be sent to prison for being ace, but in Russia gays are sent to prison.

That's... slightly inaccurate.

First of all, nobody was sent to prison for this... yet. De jure, the worst that happened is that some people were made to pay enormous fines for creating a support web-site for LGBT teens. De facto, others were attacked and injured, one activist lost an eye, and one more was beaten up to his death, but the government pretends that it did not have a hand in it. Like, "all we are trying to do is to protect children, we do not have anything against adult people's sex lives, those attackers are some insane savages who we do not endorse, bla-bla-bla..." Sure, that's bullshit. But, technically, while they are playing this bullshit, people are still not sent to jail just for being gay. This is not to defend the government of Russia, God forbid. This whole political situation is horrible, and has to be fought against, but can we please stick to the facts, because we already have some misinformation too many to deal with on a daily basis. Don't do the Duma's job for them, please.

Also, hate to break it to you, but the discrimination law includes asexuals. Although the "non-traditional orientation propaganda" wording is conveniently vague, it is explicitly stated in its subsidiary bill, which prohibits queer people to drive. And those asexual people in Russia, who are out, receive threats too, once threateners learn about the existence of asexuality.

[blackwingsblackheart]

Just my two cents regarding historical perspective:

As I recall, it was originally just "Gay Liberation" (if you ignore the Homophile movement from the 50s, which was considerably before my day, thankyouverymuch). Then, after lesbians complained (and rightly so) in the late 70s that the title made them and their distinct concerns invisible, it became "the Gay and Lesbian movement." It took a fair amount of the 80s for biphobia to die down to the point that bisexuals could be included, and that was when we started seeing "G/L/B". "GLBT" might have started not too long after that, but I only recall seeing it in the 1990s. "Ally" I don't remember from back then. I just remember the debate over whether "queer" was an irredeemable slur or could be reclaimed as a positive identity, an argument that Queer Nation pretty much dustbinned when they started getting media attention and then action on AIDS. Recently I've seen the lengthy acronym scrambled to spell QUILTBAG, which seems silly, but it doesn't hurt to make things easier for people to remember.

[Telecaster68]

Homosexuality is illegal in quite a few African countries.

[Guest]

Do any of you remember back when it was GLBT? I was around when that changed to LGBT for political correctness reasons.

The whole acronym irritates me, TBH, but I'd far prefer "asexual" than "ally". I prefer "queer" over the whole alphabet soup thing.

The question you asked that's been ignored... if you join an LGBT group based on your romantic orientation would you be booted out? Other asexuals can answer that better, but I'd certainly hope not. There's no requirement that you must have sex to be gay. The only thing I always caution the homoromantic aces is that gay events, etc, tend to be highly sexualized, and complaining about that is not a good idea. Otherwise, I think you should go and I'd be very surprised if anyone gave you trouble (but not being ace, I really don't know that for sure).

EDIT: Blackwings ninja'd me

[Snao Cone]

Do any of you remember back when it was GLBT? I was around when that changed to LGBT for political correctness reasons.

Yeah, I remember seeing mostly GLBT until the early aughts, then both for a while, and now overwhelmingly LGBT. But when people ask why, it's pretty simple to ask back "Why was it GLBT to begin with?" It's arbitrary either way.

However, I do find it's easier to say ell jee bee tee than jee ell bee tee.

[m02a16ds]

if you join an LGBT group based on your romantic orientation would you be booted out? Other asexuals can answer that better, but I'd certainly hope not. There's no requirement that you must have sex to be gay.

Well, while discerning my romantic orientation, I had to leave an LGBT group after having scarcely joined it, because the person who runs it does not believe in asexuality as such. Between having to "own up" to "just being a repressed bisexual" and having to leave, I chose to leave. Not sure whether it qualifies as being booted out, but...

[Snao Cone]

I'd say that counts as being booted out.

[Telecaster68]

Can I just say as someone who would be delighted to be called an ally, I don't give a monkey's about the acronym.

Although the People's Front Of Judea *are* a bunch of splitters.

[Snao Cone]

I thought we were the Judean People's Front...

[binary suns]

personally I like tlgb best ;)

[Telecaster68]

Judean People's Front? No, that's him over there.

[Guest]

if you join an LGBT group based on your romantic orientation would you be booted out? Other asexuals can answer that better, but I'd certainly hope not. There's no requirement that you must have sex to be gay.

Well, while discerning my romantic orientation, I had to leave an LGBT group after having scarcely joined it, because the person who runs it does not believe in asexuality as such. Between having to "own up" to "just being a repressed bisexual" and having to leave, I chose to leave. Not sure whether it qualifies as being booted out, but...

It does count as being booted... but remember, you're in Russia and the OP is in Sweden, which don't exactly share the same political climate.

[m02a16ds]

It does count as being booted... but remember, you're in Russia and the OP is in Sweden, which don't exactly share the same political climate.

Nope. I was talking about an international online community. I would never even try to bring asexuality up in Russian IRL LGBT communities :lol:, or to contact them at all, for that matter.