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I realized I'm part of the problem 8-(


SorryNotSorry

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SorryNotSorry

There has been some talk online over the last 3 years or so about men dropping out of the dating scene. Well, guess what, it's true.

Some women---and other men---have tried to laugh it off and paper it over as just a few wimps being angry at the world, but it's tough to be funny about it when you've seen IRL that it not only is indeed happening, but it's happening more and more.

Granted, some women would be happy to say good riddance to men, and some male PUAs are as happy as a pig in shit because to them this means less competition. And undoubtedly some of the men who've dropped out of dating are out-and-out lechers, but many are the so-called "good" men who seem to be as rare as hen's teeth these days. Am I good? That's not for me to say IMO, but I don't drink, smoke, use dope, gamble, have sex, or do things that would get me arrested. Go figure.

I go to speed dating events every few weeks, and around 80% are freebies because 2 to 4 other guys canceled out of the event. I know this because the e-mails say things like "EVENT FULL FOR WOMEN---MEN: ROOM STILL AVAILABLE!" When I went to speed dating events 10 years ago, the opposite was true. They were always short a couple of women, and freebie spots were unheard of. So it seems even the corporate beast is feeling the effect of slim pickings.

I think I know why... many men have given up on love. Giving up on love sounds like a very horrible thing, and it is. But I certainly came pretty close at least twice already. The only thing that keeps me from giving up on love for good is that I have a meetup group to preside over, but at this point I'm keeping it going only for the sake of the other members.

As far as the women I've talked to at those events are concerned, I've met some of them at different events hosted by different companies. I have a hunch these women are searching all around for the Perfect Man, but as long as they continue to ignore the "good" men, their chances of winning a hundred million dollars in the state lottery are much better. The grass is always greener, right?

And yet I confess that I have sinned... I left 3 singles meetup groups just yesterday. Why? Because I've partly given up on love, and anyway a lone, lovesick hetero man is despicable. So, I chose to essentially become part of the problem instead.

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I have unfortunately given up looking for dates/love. If it is presented to me and I feel I could connect with the person somehow I will take it, but I do not seek it out for myself.

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To be honest, I never even entered the scene. They can keep it. I did create an eHarmony account many years ago just to try out their personality profile. I was stunned at how it nailed me to a tee. Then I started getting a few contact requests and stopped checking in as it just felt weird to me (this was before I finally figured out my ACE status).

As for giving up on love, I never even tried. There is so much drama and baggage that comes with it that it would overwhelm me. The few times I tried to dip my toe in the pond back in the early 1990's I found it unpleasant. Upon realizing that a big part of the unpleasantness was the lack of physical attraction, that helped me rationalize my situation.

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butterflydreams

Yeah, I dunno. It can be crushingly difficult to not become bitter about it. God knows I did for a while. In lots of ways, I think that's a natural response, and even a potentially healthy one. It was for me. When something is bitter, you spit it out. Same here. If experiences are making you bitter, spit 'em out.

I think the trick is not to become consumed by it. Let it move you to somewhere different, but don't let it control you long term.

Marking it as a gendered phenomenon is a mistake IMO though. It's not. All that does is distract from the real issues, and serve to widen gendered divides more than they already are.

I won't say that I don't feel sad, down, lonely, upset, frustrated, etc over the fact that I don't have and have never had any love interest or relationship in my life. I do, a lot. But I can only do so much myself. All I can do is show people what is, and let them decide what they want to do about it.

Oh, and definitely make sure...more important than anything else...that you're living a life you can smile about. And that isn't some shallow affirmation about, "loving yourself before someone else can love you." If you want to do something that's fun, do it. Do whatever you want. I learned how to sail keelboats and catamarans one summer. Wasn't able to keep it up, but now I know I can do that. I bought a second car. Because I wanted to. I'm transitioning to female. Because I like being able to smile at myself in the mirror. I think things, and I do them. Find problem areas, and correct them. One at a time. Someone may want to jump in on all that with me, but it's on them to show they're worthy of being included in my Life of Awesome.

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Is this straight out of /r9k/? jk jk

Well anyways, I have to agree with you. Though many people won't talk about it, feminism and the advent of LGBT/Genders has tampered with the dating scene and acceptance in general. People are way too picky now, or try to find Mr. Perfect without seeing what is outside of their "Search range" People's perceptions are skewed by political correctness, appearance and acceptance. It is not looking good for straight people. Not to mention, the extreme feminists made being any kind of "alpha" impossible.

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Woodworker, you've gone to speed dating events for 10 years??? Since they obviously don't work for you, why do you keep going?

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Is this straight out of /r9k/? jk jk

Well anyways, I have to agree with you. Though many people won't talk about it, feminism and the advent of LGBT/Genders has tampered with the dating scene and acceptance in general. People are way too picky now, or try to find Mr. Perfect without seeing what is outside of their "Search range" People's perceptions are skewed by political correctness, appearance and acceptance. It is not looking good for straight people. Not to mention, the extreme feminists made being any kind of "alpha" impossible.

jfc, I've never been into dating, but now I feel bad for sparing so many cishet dudes' feelings by staying out of the market. I could've legitimized their ire at the idea the world isn't made for them and their "dating scene"

...no, no, even that farce wouldn't be worth putting up with the heavily gendered small talk and mental scorecard to evaluate based on standard dating criteria.

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Is this straight out of /r9k/? jk jk

Well anyways, I have to agree with you. Though many people won't talk about it, feminism and the advent of LGBT/Genders has tampered with the dating scene and acceptance in general. People are way too picky now, or try to find Mr. Perfect without seeing what is outside of their "Search range" People's perceptions are skewed by political correctness, appearance and acceptance. It is not looking good for straight people. Not to mention, the extreme feminists made being any kind of "alpha" impossible.

jfc, I've never been into dating, but now I feel bad for sparing so many cishet dudes' feelings by staying out of the market. I could've legitimized their ire at the idea the world isn't made for them and their "dating scene"

...no, no, even that farce wouldn't be worth putting up with the heavily gendered small talk and mental scorecard to evaluate based on standard dating criteria.

cishets are not the only ones staying out of the scene. There are many shades and colors of people staying out. Because feminists made being anything but non-binary unacceptable. There are even gays who feel violated because they are expected to behave a certain way. There are people who feel alienated by whats suppose to be "normal" and or have skewed perceptions of "reality" thanks to the community. This goes for all genders as well.

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Is this straight out of /r9k/? jk jk

Well anyways, I have to agree with you. Though many people won't talk about it, feminism and the advent of LGBT/Genders has tampered with the dating scene and acceptance in general. People are way too picky now, or try to find Mr. Perfect without seeing what is outside of their "Search range" People's perceptions are skewed by political correctness, appearance and acceptance. It is not looking good for straight people. Not to mention, the extreme feminists made being any kind of "alpha" impossible.

jfc, I've never been into dating, but now I feel bad for sparing so many cishet dudes' feelings by staying out of the market. I could've legitimized their ire at the idea the world isn't made for them and their "dating scene"

...no, no, even that farce wouldn't be worth putting up with the heavily gendered small talk and mental scorecard to evaluate based on standard dating criteria.

cishets are not the only ones staying out of the scene. There are many shades and colors of people staying out. Because feminists made being anything but non-binary unacceptable. There are even gays who feel violated because they are expected to behave a certain way. There are people who feel alienated by whats suppose to be "normal" and or have skewed perceptions of "reality" thanks to the community. This goes for all genders as well.

"the community"?

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Because feminists made being anything but non-binary unacceptable.

You can be as binary as you wish; that's how I, a longtime feminist, and my feminist friends (who include several men)think. There's no sense in blaming one group of people for the fact that you, or anyone else, hasn't found anyone you like.

I don't really understand why anyone wants to participate in something they call a "scene". Join a group that involves something real.

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I'll admit that giving up on love seems like the easiest thing to do. Before my current relationship, I had totally given up on the idea of people even liking me to begin with (that's what happens when your first and at-the-time only three relationships were all too much give and not any take, and a lot of other combined crap I won't go into). Or at least, on the idea that it was worth it to seek it out. Because of my experience, I had decided on a rule:

If the girl can't have to conviction in knowing that they want me enough to initiate and ask me out, then I'll probably be too scared of a repeat event to truly commit, and that's just not fair to anyone.

Which is a stupid rule, but necessary for me, personally, to continue without too much worry. Currently, that rule has brought me an amazing person who I can be myself around, and actually talk on problems with. It let me focus entirely on the person, and on myself, in the sense that the part of my brain that constantly tried to assess romantic potential didn't have to bother anymore.

The dating scene itself, though, where you're looking for a potential partner? I just...can't deal with it. Too much bad seems to squander the good if you're putting in the effort to look for it.

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I am another person who never even tried to get into the game. Romance and dating is just not for everyone.

That said, I fail to see why this is a problem. The world is so over-populated that neither a world war, or even global pandemic would put a dent in it. If anything we need to encourage more people to not hook up, and those who do we need to encourage them to have no more than 2 kids.

But global overpopulation will probably be one of those issues that will just get worse and worse till it is no longer sustainable and then human populations will crash.




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I am another person who never even tried to get into the game. Romance and dating is just not for everyone.

That said, I fail to see why this is a problem. The world is so over-populated that neither a world war, or even global pandemic would put a dent in it. If anything we need to encourage more people to not hook up, and those who do we need to encourage them to have no more than 2 kids.

But global overpopulation will probably be one of those issues that will just get worse and worse till it is no longer sustainable and then human populations will crash.

It's a problem if some people decide to acquire automatic weapons and explosives and try to send a message.

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I am another person who never even tried to get into the game. Romance and dating is just not for everyone.

That said, I fail to see why this is a problem. The world is so over-populated that neither a world war, or even global pandemic would put a dent in it. If anything we need to encourage more people to not hook up, and those who do we need to encourage them to have no more than 2 kids.

But global overpopulation will probably be one of those issues that will just get worse and worse till it is no longer sustainable and then human populations will crash.

It's a problem if some people decide to acquire automatic weapons and explosives and try to send a message.

I don't think this thread has anything to do with either overpopulation or war. Although the OP seems to feel there's a war of some sort between women and men.

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SorryNotSorry

As an afterthought... if love came to me (and that's a very big IF) I'm not ashamed to say I'd push it away.

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As an afterthought... if love came to me (and that's a very big IF) I'm not ashamed to say I'd push it away.

Then why do you do speed dating and talk about you and others as people lonely for love? That doesn't make any sense.

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Is this straight out of /r9k/? jk jk

Well anyways, I have to agree with you. Though many people won't talk about it, feminism and the advent of LGBT/Genders has tampered with the dating scene and acceptance in general. People are way too picky now, or try to find Mr. Perfect without seeing what is outside of their "Search range" People's perceptions are skewed by political correctness, appearance and acceptance. It is not looking good for straight people. Not to mention, the extreme feminists made being any kind of "alpha" impossible.

This is bothersome. There is a focus on the idea that 'women' don't pick 'good men' because they want 'better.' The 'feminists' are 'ruining dating.'

As a gay ace this REALLY bothers me. I quit participating in the dating scene because men would accuse me of being an entitled *expletive* because I was obviously holding out for something better, when I just wanted something with matching anatomy.

The simple fact is that I never found the dating scene safe. And if people are staying away because they don't find it safe we have something we need to work on, but if people are staying away because they are mad that women are demanding safer dating spaces I think we are better off. I'm tired, women and AFABs are tired of being berated and degraded by guys who think it's okay to talk about our bodies like they belong to them and then cry 'freedom of speech' and 'political correctness overdose' when we call them on it.

And the idea that 'the gays' and 'the feminists' are ruining dating for everyone when what we've been aiming for is a dating scene where we won't be physically attacked is offensive and ridiculous.

Yes, the dating scene has slowed, but there has also been a cultural focus on things like education, so the people paying off their debts can't really afford to date so they aren't searching for partners, or can but don't have the time because they landed the career they wanted. There has been a move from the idea of marriage being the end-all and the generation before us divorced all the time, so many people don't want marriage because they watched their parent's fall apart. There has also been a huge shift to internet dating, as it is now where most hookups happen. So speed daters are likely now on eHarmony, forlorn instead buckets of ice cream because they have given up on love.

Also, people, LIKE GAYS AND ACES, don't have to get married in order to pass and therefore not be ostracized or attacked by society because they are no longer classified as diseases, so they aren't looking for beards on the dating scene anymore, or dating from the closet.

So yes, dating has changed. It is hardly ruined

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All I'm hearing is "boo hoo the world has changed and no one wants to date me so I'm going to blame feminists." What I find particularly amusing is almost always when someone bitches about being unable to find a date, it's glaringly obvious to almost everyone exactly why they can't find a date. Spoiler alert: it's not because of feminists.

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All I'm hearing is "boo hoo the world has changed and no one wants to date me so I'm going to blame feminists." What I find particularly amusing is almost always when someone bitches about being unable to find a date, it's glaringly obvious to almost everyone exactly why they can't find a date. Spoiler alert: it's not because of feminists.

the only reaction i can give for this comment is:

picard_clapping.gif

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I thought the dating scene slowed because people are putting less and less emphasis on the bond between people and more on the whole of the self...and the extremely fast-paced modern first-world lifestyle has no room in it for true casual courtship...and that people are becoming increasingly more antisocial/not knowing how to handle problems like these?

Just to name a few possibilities off the top of my head. I'm not saying this generation is ruined and that we're all becoming antisocial only in this generation, but in general that's what I've been happen. I've been freshmen in high school feel destroyed by the pressures of society's factory schedule imposed on them since elementary school, or their own mental problems that can't be voiced because that's "weird," or any other number of things, and we're not given a true way to cope.

Aaaaand I sound like some TedX activist I'm gonna stop there.

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El-not-so-ace

Haha, yeah, Skullery is so right on that. :P

I've seen friends "give up" but it wasn't for too long. I think it's just because there's such a high amount of websites and events catered to dating events that people feel a bit full or it's too saturated in a way... Kind of like when someone "overdoses" on technology and needs a day off for example, but on another scale. I've heard articles saying that people are pickier because websites make you feel like you've got a way bigger sea to fish from than really. The singles in a big city can seem super tempting to some people as it looks like so many are available...

This whole ambiance just makes people exhausted and it's not surprising. :P

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I don't really understand why anyone wants to participate in something they call a "scene". Join a group that involves something real.

Or even better, a "market". Maybe some people are just tired of love, supposedly the strongest genuine emotion in the world, being treated like another thing to "buy" and consume.

And why wouldn't you be picky when looking for someone you want to spend a good part of your life with? At least when it comes to looking for more than something casual.

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I don't really understand why anyone wants to participate in something they call a "scene". Join a group that involves something real.

Or even better, a "market". Maybe some people are just tired of love, supposedly the strongest genuine emotion in the world, being treated like another thing to "buy" and consume.

And why wouldn't you be picky when looking for someone you want to spend a good part of your life with? At least when it comes to looking for more than something casual.

I agree with that cause I ain't gunna just be picking up any man off the street and being like hey wanna come home with me and see if this goes somewhere? Though I believe that is already called something ;)

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SorryNotSorry

#22 and 24.

Investing time and effort for little or no return DOES tend to leave one feeling drained of energy... the only people I can think of at the moment for whom that wouldn't be a problem are compulsive gamblers.

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You are not part of the problem. Today in society, people are more... How to put it... More busier? Since more people ar working longer hours and all, no one really has time to go on dates and such. What I learned from history class is that since more people are working, more men are desperate to find lovers/wives and such. And for some, they just gave up. But anyway, I don't think you are part of the problem. You did not give up on love, you are just tired of the type of people that are searching for love (the mean guys). So I think you should just be yourself and do what you want to do.

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Ahh, I just wrote a related post, so guess I'll comment here as well..

Long story short, hell yeah, I'm bitter, and I don't give no ****s.

I don't intend to "drop out of dating", and in fact I have already found my perfect match in this world; However, I'm completely disillusioned with certain types of women, and I don't intend to ever give that type of person a chance of getting emotionally close with me again. Which, I suppose, is a win-win for the time being, although I'm pretty sure it'll have turned into a win-lose in my favour by the time the people in my age group reach their 40s and 50s.

Also, arguing about feminism is pointless. Go to youtube, look up a few feminists and discussions on feminism, both sides are basically full of trolls and bigots. I don't care what your local feminist group is like, on the internet the term has come to mean nothing, as the most horrible people can now wave that flag and even gain popular support and be thought of as role model or whatever. And the same is true for anti-feminists, of course.

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Maybe it's because I'm demiromantic but I have never been on the dating scene and to be honest, I don't connect the dating scene with romance or love at all.

To me, actively looking for a partner (especially through speed dating) is one of the most unromantic business-like manner of forming relationships that ever was. It's right up there with arranged marriage.

Which isn't to say it's wrong to look for a partner that way. But yeah, as far as romance is concerned, nope.

So I understand that one would grow discouraged and lose faith in love and romance, when faced with such a businessman way of making connections.

Maybe it's because I'm demi. And maybe it's beside the point, but there you go.

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Autumn Season

It seems to me that people used to marry for other reasons than romance. And now more people search for love. So it makes sense that the dating scene changed. The other person can be the morally best person ever. But that doesn't mean that everyone or even many will fall in love with them.

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