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"Enthusiastic" consent (probably don't read if you're triggered by consent things)


Kiterious

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I recently had an... incident, we'll say, with my long distance partner. It was entirely consensual by every definition of consent, but I didn't want to give consent. I'm a sex repulsed asexual, but I have problems saying no to anything, especially something I've been repeatedly been laughed at and shamed for (not by him, but by various others).


But he didn't help, he says things like "I don't need it, not from you" (by which he meant he could get it from other people, something we've still never discussed because he just assumed it was a given and I never questioned it even though I'm uncomfortable with the idea), and the fact that he cheated on his girlfriend with me (he told me they broke up but they were actually on break but still exclusive) and told me he didn't feel guilty about it because she had "teased him and then made him feel guilty for wanting her". But I know for a fact that her "teasing" was conversations he started and she was willing to go along with because he promised her he'd respect her boundaries and respect if she didn't want to do anything they talked about or touch him at all (words he later said almost word for word to me). And his "guilt" is his own problem, because later me not being sexually interested in him and being unmoving and uncompromising about it (because he'd encouraged me to be, at first) made him feel guilty for wanting me too.


Not to mention he constantly talked about things that made me uncomfortable in very graphic detail. And the more he talked, the more I pretended to be okay with it. It was a gradual buildup to me pretending, and trying to convince myself, that I might want or at least tolerate something I most certainly don't want. But he has anxiety and depression and suicidal tendencies and eating disorders AND a history of sexual abuse, so I really didn't want to tell him that he was pressuring me and pushing my boundaries.


And then I told him about the time I panicked when some guy I barely knew kept pinning me against things and asking to touch me and I smiled and laughed and played along with false enthusiasm and consent I didn't want to give because I panicked and I don't know how to say no. And even outside of that incident, my partner knows I have trouble saying no because while I've assured him I understand when he says can say no to him, I've been telling him since before we got together that I can't say no to people and that I'm easy to use.


I told my partner how I felt about that situation and reacted like he'd sexually assaulted me (and how I had completely cut him from my life) even though I'd technically given "enthusiastic" and completely un-coerced consent to everything he did. And so my partner promised that when I visited him the next week he wouldn't even ask and if I wanted something I would have to ask for it. And I was relieved, and I think I let my guard down because of that. And so when he asked and started moving to do more than we'd discussed I smiled and laughed and played along with false enthusiasm because I panicked and I don't know how to say no.


Now I've barely spoken to him for the last month and have been reluctant to visit him again and I only recently realised that I feel just as used and violated as I did with the first guy. And now I'm faced with two possibilities, either he just didn't remember (which still implies a certain lack of caring or disrespect, doesn't it?) or he planned this from the beginning and his constant asking if I felt pressured was a trick because he knew I'd say it was okay. I know that sounds paranoid but he's a manipulative and abusive person (I didn't realize this at the time, obviously) and he's a compulsive liar and I think he's buried himself deep in denial and a personality disorder of some kind.


And now I don't know how to think or feel or what to do and I don't want to see him again, I'm trying to break up with him but it's hard, and all I really want is to somehow be able to know whether he intentionally coerced me and if any of this was him doing something wrong or if this was entirely because of my own internal self-coercion. Also I just really need somewhere to talk about this. I don't have anyone to talk to about this and therapists are too expensive for me.

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i think, if you know hes an abusive and manipulative person as you say, that cant be the type of person you want to be with long term. whether hes doing it on purpose or not, it doesnt sound like hes a good match for you if you cant tell him no, and he cant go by his promises to not ask. even if he in no way meant to take advantage of you or his mental problems make being good about it difficult, its not your job to subject yourself to that for his sake. his problems are not yours to solve or suffer through, you cant fix him by being in a relationship with him.

i say break up with him, and dont see him again, at least until you can give him a firm "no"

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allrightalready

enthusiastic consent is not about how vehement one is during the "giving" of consent, it is about being even more consenting than "informed" consent. if one gets manipulated or coerced in any way about giving consent then it is no longer really consent. any abusive situation, or a situation where there is a power differential (parent/child, doctor/patient etc) is by definition not consensual. i also encourage people to get out of abusive situations because an abuser will always increase their abuse so once they show the minor clues in the beginning it is best to just leave, they don't want a real/healthy relationship nor will they fix their behavior

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I'm not really good with words, but I agree with both comments above mine. Don't feel guilty, as if what happened was your fault. If you can't say "no" to him, if this relationship makes you suffer, I think you should break up with him.

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I think you already know what you need to do and I'd definitely work on being able to say "no." I don't know where you live, however, I know there are affordable therapists around where I live, some of which are only $5 per hour session. I highly recommend that you seek professional help to deal with this and that you search around for more affordable options.

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No matter what the law was, you'd have given consent. If it was enthusiastic consent, you'd have given that. You were intentionally and consciously giving him what he wants.

When you say that his guilt is his own problem... well, same goes for you. Your feelings are your problem. If you say no and he doesn't take the no, then it becomes his problem... but if you've not communicated it to him, that's yours.

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You told him you had issues saying no, so in that case, ideally he should have made CERTAIN you were OK with what was going on. My ex, I had told him I didn't want to have sex yet. He said that was OK. We were playing around and it lead up to a spot where sex might happen, HE stopped it and waited until the next day to talk and see if I was really OK with it or not (when the situation was not as pressure filled/potential to do something I'd regret). I will always, always be grateful to him for how entirely respectful he was about my wishes when it came to sex. Even the first time we had it, he saw something was wrong by my facial expression (it physically hurt, but I didn't say anything cause I was told it was supposed to the first time...) and stopped and just cuddled me the rest of the night instead.

However, my ex is a rare one and I know it. Most people will ask, regardless and unless they get a no (or an obvious non-verbal lack of consent) they'll go ahead and take it as a yes. And if you say yes, they'll take it as you want it. It's not illegal, but when you know someone cannot say no and will traumatize themselves just to make you happy, it does make you kind of a jerk to take advantage of that and go against the agreed upon boundaries for a get together and ask anyway.

I'm sorry he didn't respect your request to not ask. He should have. And you have every right to be upset because of it. Did he do it on purpose? Maybe, maybe not. Only he could answer that and he likely wouldn't anyway. He might have just gotten carried away with the moment. But, whether it was purposeful or not, it doesn't really matter. It broke your trust with him and hurt you. And you have decided you want to break up. So do so. And you are totally justified in it.

Also... the things he said about his ex and "teasing" raises very bad red flags for me. Also the fact he's just taking non-monogamy as a given, rather than having a discussion about it. And the fact he cheated on his ex and tries to justify it. :s

You deserve someone that will take to heart the things you say and make sure you are comfortable with what you are doing, even if it means being patient like my ex did and checking in a less stress filled time if what was about to happen was alright. :cake:

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Based on the information that you have provided, it looks like he might have planned. Some people feel a sense of accomplishment when they pressure other people; they will feel like they have won something when other people give-in to their pressure. E.g. peers who pressure you to drink and accidentally keep bringing alcohol when they visit you or socialize with you.

Anyway it doesn't really matter leave him because he is an abusive person.

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Thank you everyone for your opinions and advice. I'm planning on leaving him, or trying to, if he ever texts me back. He's been ignoring me since Sunday because we had a sort of argument.

And there's cheap therapy options? Does anyone know how to find these? I've looked for therapists in my area but the only ones I can find have a price in the hundreds...

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Thank you everyone for your opinions and advice. I'm planning on leaving him, or trying to, if he ever texts me back. He's been ignoring me since Sunday because we had a sort of argument.

And there's cheap therapy options? Does anyone know how to find these? I've looked for therapists in my area but the only ones I can find have a price in the hundreds...

Try searching for therapists that have sliding scales based on income. You can also call around and ask if any of the medical offices knows of one. Most doctors offices are willing to name drop if they can't offer you services.

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Thank you, I'll do that. I'd never heard that term before but I just looked it up and I'll definitely start asking around. I didn't realize that some peoples' rates were negotiable.

I also wanted to address this, while I'm here...

No matter what the law was, you'd have given consent. If it was enthusiastic consent, you'd have given that. You were intentionally and consciously giving him what he wants.

When you say that his guilt is his own problem... well, same goes for you. Your feelings are your problem. If you say no and he doesn't take the no, then it becomes his problem... but if you've not communicated it to him, that's yours.

I know that not saying no was my problem. But it was sort of like... have you ever had anxiety or a phobia or a panic attack? People can tell you to stop panicking, and you know you should and that it would all stop if you'd just (insert solution here). Like, when I see blood I realize that the panic would stop if I looked away, but I'm frozen. That's what this was. I panicked and I froze.

I do understand that it wasn't his fault (unless he WAS purposely manipulating me) and that this is purely an issue of mine. But it's an issue I informed him of and one he chose not to take note of. If I shoved a claustrophobic person into a crowded elevator, is it their fault that they panic? Maybe they should've stayed away from the elevators, or just walked out. But I'm also in the wrong for putting them in a situation they'd told me they couldn't handle.

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Yes I understand, and I've been in the exact same situation... but you do need to get help for it, because you can only control yourself. AVEN has a problem with telling people its' ok to rely on other people to watch out for your wellbeing, and that's simply not how life works. We do a huge disservice to people by not making explicit that you, and YOU ALONE, can take care of yourself and make sure you're being respected. Expecting others to respect you will work most of the time, but not all the time. We all need to take complete responsibility for our own actions and not pawn it off on someone else.

My very first sexual experience was "forced". But it wasn't forced because I didn't say no. The fact that I hadn't even kissed anyone yet and never ever ever said I was interested in sexual exploration should have been a clue, but it wasn't. My boyfriend was young and didn't know what he was doing either, so I laid there and all kinds of things went on. When he pushed me down for a blowjob I was like uh uhhh and everything kinda stopped then.

It wasn't his fault. It was my fault. And I never had a problem taking control over a sexual situation again. We live and learn... it's the best we can do.

But I'm also in the wrong for putting them in a situation they'd told me they couldn't handle.

You put yourself in the elevator, he didn't. The proper analogy would be if someone said they'd hold your hand and help while you were in the elevator, you walked in, and they were unsupportive. But, again, that shit happens. A lot. You gotta be able to support yourself.

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Thank you everyone for your opinions and advice. I'm planning on leaving him, or trying to, if he ever texts me back. He's been ignoring me since Sunday because we had a sort of argument.

Don't need to wait for him to text you back in order to leave him and end the relationship. You can make that decision right now, on your own, without his input. You don't even have to text him to let him know, especially if he's already ignoring you. I'd just end it and cut off contact with him from here on out.

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I know that not saying no was my problem. But it was sort of like... have you ever had anxiety or a phobia or a panic attack? People can tell you to stop panicking, and you know you should and that it would all stop if you'd just (insert solution here). Like, when I see blood I realize that the panic would stop if I looked away, but I'm frozen. That's what this was. I panicked and I froze.

I do understand that it wasn't his fault (unless he WAS purposely manipulating me) and that this is purely an issue of mine. But it's an issue I informed him of and one he chose not to take note of. If I shoved a claustrophobic person into a crowded elevator, is it their fault that they panic? Maybe they should've stayed away from the elevators, or just walked out. But I'm also in the wrong for putting them in a situation they'd told me they couldn't handle.

You really have to distinguish between the process of deciding "this person is not good for me", and the process of deciding "this person did something morally wrong". The latter is, quite frankly, not at all relevant to your situation. It's the former process you need to go through right now.

And as for that, yes, absolutely, I believe it is a completely healthy attitude to expect a partner to respect you and be careful and look out for you. That's pretty obvious, actually, and personally I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would disregard this very basic rule..

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And as for that, yes, absolutely, I believe it is a completely healthy attitude to expect a partner to respect you and be careful and look out for you. That's pretty obvious, actually, and personally I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would disregard this very basic rule..

There's a huge difference between expecting a partner to respect you, and rolling over and letting them disrespect you so that later you can say "he was at fault." Laying blame doesn't erase the harm that was done. Better to be able to take care of your own self, like a mature person, so that harm doesn't happen in the first place. If you can't say no, you shouldn't be messing with other humans, because you do have to say no to other humans sometimes.

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And as for that, yes, absolutely, I believe it is a completely healthy attitude to expect a partner to respect you and be careful and look out for you. That's pretty obvious, actually, and personally I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would disregard this very basic rule..

There's a huge difference between expecting a partner to respect you, and rolling over and letting them disrespect you so that later you can say "he was at fault." Laying blame doesn't erase the harm that was done. Better to be able to take care of your own self, like a mature person, so that harm doesn't happen in the first place. If you can't say no, you shouldn't be messing with other humans, because you do have to say no to other humans sometimes.

Uhm.. But that doesn't change anything about the fact that if you open up to a person, you become vulnerable, right? Doesn't matter how mature a person you are, someone close to you can always hurt you, which is why they should be someone you can trust.

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panicked and I froze.

I do understand that it wasn't his fault (unless he WAS purposely manipulating me) and that this is purely an issue of mine. But it's an issue I informed him of and one he chose not to take note of.

It doesn't matter whether he was indeed manipulating you, or that he had been informed by you and chose not to pay attention to that information. If that's true, he's a jerk. But it's your responsibility to not let jerks use you.

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And as for that, yes, absolutely, I believe it is a completely healthy attitude to expect a partner to respect you and be careful and look out for you. That's pretty obvious, actually, and personally I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would disregard this very basic rule..

There's a huge difference between expecting a partner to respect you, and rolling over and letting them disrespect you so that later you can say "he was at fault." Laying blame doesn't erase the harm that was done. Better to be able to take care of your own self, like a mature person, so that harm doesn't happen in the first place. If you can't say no, you shouldn't be messing with other humans, because you do have to say no to other humans sometimes.

Uhm.. But that doesn't change anything about the fact that if you open up to a person, you become vulnerable, right? Doesn't matter how mature a person you are, someone close to you can always hurt you, which is why they should be someone you can trust.

Ugh Tar maybe this is why dudes shouldn't get involved in sexual assault conversations. But yes, Tarfeather, if you think that no women should have any ability to say no or otherwise state their needs and require their boundaries be respected because you're certain no man is ever going to cross a line, fine. You're wrong... you're really, really wrong, but fine.

I'm not talking about falling in love with someone, being vulnerable, and them breaking your heart. That's life. I'm saying... if you don't want to have sex, say you don't want to have sex. Don't consent, have sex and then be upset that he didn't respect your boundaries. Sometimes people are jerks and the correct response isn't to let them hurt you, it's to take care of yourself.

But it's your responsibility to not let jerks use you.

THIS.

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I'm sorry if I was unclear, I wasn't trying to pin the blame on him. I know it was my fault, and I know that I shouldn't rely on respect from other people. I know I need to change, and I'm going to try and work on that once I'm out of this situation.

My concern is less with who the blame is on and more with trying to work out how I feel. Whether it was entirely my fault or the blame is split between both him and me, I feel violated and used. And I feel guilty for feeling that because it WAS my choice, and I have no right to let my mind paint the situation as coerced or forced when the problem was more me being too easily influenced and bending over backwards for him than him being forceful. It's been over a month since this happened, and I've started to accept that he's definitely a jerk. But you're right, I shouldn't have let this jerk use me. I do understand that.

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Ugh Tar maybe this is why dudes shouldn't get involved in sexual assault conversations. But yes, Tarfeather, if you think that no women should have any ability to say no or otherwise state their needs and require their boundaries be respected because you're certain no man is ever going to cross a line, fine. You're wrong... you're really, really wrong, but fine.

I'm not talking about falling in love with someone, being vulnerable, and them breaking your heart. That's life. I'm saying... if you don't want to have sex, say you don't want to have sex. Don't consent, have sex and then be upset that he didn't respect your boundaries. Sometimes people are jerks and the correct response isn't to let them hurt you, it's to take care of yourself.

Can you stop this blatant manipulation and twisting of words, please? Even talking about these ridiculous claims of yours would just be playing into your hands, so I won't bother.

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Mycroft is Yourcroft

My concern is less with who the blame is on and more with trying to work out how I feel. Whether it was entirely my fault or the blame is split between both him and me, I feel violated and used. And I feel guilty for feeling that because it WAS my choice, and I have no right to let my mind paint the situation as coerced or forced when the problem was more me being too easily influenced and bending over backwards for him than him being forceful. It's been over a month since this happened, and I've started to accept that he's definitely a jerk. But you're right, I shouldn't have let this jerk use me. I do understand that.

Geez I know how you feel, I've been there. I did it for a whole year. And you don't need me to tell you how much it sucks. Honestly, it takes a while to get over (I still have moments of disgust from time to time myself, a whole 3 years later), but the sooner you view the situation as having been a choice you made (that they happened to benefit from much more than you did), the easier it becomes to view not forcing yourself to have sex you don't want as a choice too, and you'll find it easier to make the best choice for yourself next time, in different circumstances.

Ideally, they should've checked in with you during the process, given their knowledge of how hard you find it to say 'no', but focus on yourself in this circumstance, not them. Take possession of that choice and its consequences, don't beat yourself up over it, take special care of yourself for a bit, and you'll work out much better from this experience in the long run.

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Ugh Tar maybe this is why dudes shouldn't get involved in sexual assault conversations. But yes, Tarfeather, if you think that no women should have any ability to say no or otherwise state their needs and require their boundaries be respected because you're certain no man is ever going to cross a line, fine. You're wrong... you're really, really wrong, but fine.

I'm not talking about falling in love with someone, being vulnerable, and them breaking your heart. That's life. I'm saying... if you don't want to have sex, say you don't want to have sex. Don't consent, have sex and then be upset that he didn't respect your boundaries. Sometimes people are jerks and the correct response isn't to let them hurt you, it's to take care of yourself.

Can you stop this blatant manipulation and twisting of words, please? Even talking about these ridiculous claims of yours would just be playing into your hands, so I won't bother.
No one is asking you to follow me around picking at every post I write in every thread. Don't want me to reply? Don't pick a fight with me in the first place. How about for a change of pace, you write a post with just your own thoughts that doesn't in any way, directly or passive aggressively, reference mine.
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Ugh Tar maybe this is why dudes shouldn't get involved in sexual assault conversations. But yes, Tarfeather, if you think that no women should have any ability to say no or otherwise state their needs and require their boundaries be respected because you're certain no man is ever going to cross a line, fine. You're wrong... you're really, really wrong, but fine.

I'm not talking about falling in love with someone, being vulnerable, and them breaking your heart. That's life. I'm saying... if you don't want to have sex, say you don't want to have sex. Don't consent, have sex and then be upset that he didn't respect your boundaries. Sometimes people are jerks and the correct response isn't to let them hurt you, it's to take care of yourself.

Can you stop this blatant manipulation and twisting of words, please? Even talking about these ridiculous claims of yours would just be playing into your hands, so I won't bother.
No one is asking you to follow me around picking at every post I write in every thread. Don't want me to reply? Don't pick a fight with me in the first place. How about for a change of pace, you write a post with just your own thoughts that doesn't in any way, directly or passive aggressively, reference mine.

I didn't eve-- OH. I must admit, you're quite good at this.

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My concern is less with who the blame is on and more with trying to work out how I feel. Whether it was entirely my fault or the blame is split between both him and me, I feel violated and used. And I feel guilty for feeling that because it WAS my choice, and I have no right to let my mind paint the situation as coerced or forced when the problem was more me being too easily influenced and bending over backwards for him than him being forceful. It's been over a month since this happened, and I've started to accept that he's definitely a jerk. But you're right, I shouldn't have let this jerk use me. I do understand that.

Geez I know how you feel, I've been there. I did it for a whole year. And you don't need me to tell you how much it sucks. Honestly, it takes a while to get over (I still have moments of disgust from time to time myself, a whole 3 years later), but the sooner you view the situation as having been a choice you made (that they happened to benefit from much more than you did), the easier it becomes to view not forcing yourself to have sex you don't want as a choice too, and you'll find it easier to make the best choice for yourself next time, in different circumstances.

Ideally, they should've checked in with you during the process, given their knowledge of how hard you find it to say 'no', but focus on yourself in this circumstance, not them. Take possession of that choice and its consequences, don't beat yourself up over it, take special care of yourself for a bit, and you'll work out much better from this experience in the long run.

So like... instead of looking back and wishing I had never trusted him, I should focus on thinking if I could go back and do it over I would choose to say no, whether he's a jerk or not. Or something like that? How do you learn to make the choice not to force yourself? Before this mess I'd thought I was doing pretty well in terms of the whole personal sense of agency thing until I realized I've been giving in to every slightest bit of pressure from him from the beginning with him, aside from initially informing him at the start that I was sex repulsed and asexual. How do you learn to say no AND stick to it?

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My concern is less with who the blame is on and more with trying to work out how I feel. Whether it was entirely my fault or the blame is split between both him and me, I feel violated and used. And I feel guilty for feeling that because it WAS my choice, and I have no right to let my mind paint the situation as coerced or forced when the problem was more me being too easily influenced and bending over backwards for him than him being forceful. It's been over a month since this happened, and I've started to accept that he's definitely a jerk. But you're right, I shouldn't have let this jerk use me. I do understand that.

Geez I know how you feel, I've been there. I did it for a whole year. And you don't need me to tell you how much it sucks. Honestly, it takes a while to get over (I still have moments of disgust from time to time myself, a whole 3 years later), but the sooner you view the situation as having been a choice you made (that they happened to benefit from much more than you did), the easier it becomes to view not forcing yourself to have sex you don't want as a choice too, and you'll find it easier to make the best choice for yourself next time, in different circumstances.

Ideally, they should've checked in with you during the process, given their knowledge of how hard you find it to say 'no', but focus on yourself in this circumstance, not them. Take possession of that choice and its consequences, don't beat yourself up over it, take special care of yourself for a bit, and you'll work out much better from this experience in the long run.

So like... instead of looking back and wishing I had never trusted him, I should focus on thinking if I could go back and do it over I would choose to say no, whether he's a jerk or not. Or something like that? How do you learn to make the choice not to force yourself? Before this mess I'd thought I was doing pretty well in terms of the whole personal sense of agency thing until I realized I've been giving in to every slightest bit of pressure from him from the beginning with him, aside from initially informing him at the start that I was sex repulsed and asexual. How do you learn to say no AND stick to it?

Ideally you'd be with someone who you wouldn't need to say 'no' no, because they wouldn't try to initiate sex once you've told them about your asexuality and sex-repulsion. Those two details should be things that are communicated early, probably even before you become exclusive with the person, because for many people it will be deal-breaker, and they'll want to hightail it out of there. But if the person expresses being okay with how you are regarding sex, and is willing to ask before proceeding with anything to make sure you're okay with it, you really shouldn't be put in the position where either you force out a no or they're going to have sex with you when you don't want them to. That's not how it should be. If you said yes because you felt obligated or pressured at no fault of their own, hopefully they would know you well enough to tell you really didn't want to and weren't reacting the way you would if you were genuinely okay with it and stop. And if they don't know you well enough to be able to tell when you're not into it at all, they shouldn't even be trying to go that far so early anyway.

And if they haven't been asking, and can't tell when you're uncomfortable after they don't ask or you say no, that's your cue to get the hell out of the relationship, because they don't care about your well-being. Best case scenario, you see what kind of person they are and leave the relationship before it amounts to failing to say no to sex.

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My concern is less with who the blame is on and more with trying to work out how I feel. Whether it was entirely my fault or the blame is split between both him and me, I feel violated and used. And I feel guilty for feeling that because it WAS my choice, and I have no right to let my mind paint the situation as coerced or forced when the problem was more me being too easily influenced and bending over backwards for him than him being forceful. It's been over a month since this happened, and I've started to accept that he's definitely a jerk. But you're right, I shouldn't have let this jerk use me. I do understand that.

Geez I know how you feel, I've been there. I did it for a whole year. And you don't need me to tell you how much it sucks. Honestly, it takes a while to get over (I still have moments of disgust from time to time myself, a whole 3 years later), but the sooner you view the situation as having been a choice you made (that they happened to benefit from much more than you did), the easier it becomes to view not forcing yourself to have sex you don't want as a choice too, and you'll find it easier to make the best choice for yourself next time, in different circumstances.

Ideally, they should've checked in with you during the process, given their knowledge of how hard you find it to say 'no', but focus on yourself in this circumstance, not them. Take possession of that choice and its consequences, don't beat yourself up over it, take special care of yourself for a bit, and you'll work out much better from this experience in the long run.

So like... instead of looking back and wishing I had never trusted him, I should focus on thinking if I could go back and do it over I would choose to say no, whether he's a jerk or not. Or something like that? How do you learn to make the choice not to force yourself? Before this mess I'd thought I was doing pretty well in terms of the whole personal sense of agency thing until I realized I've been giving in to every slightest bit of pressure from him from the beginning with him, aside from initially informing him at the start that I was sex repulsed and asexual. How do you learn to say no AND stick to it?

Ideally you'd be with someone who you wouldn't need to say 'no' no, because they wouldn't try to initiate sex once you've told them about your asexuality and sex-repulsion. Those two details should be things that are communicated early, probably even before you become exclusive with the person, because for many people it will be deal-breaker, and they'll want to hightail it out of there. But if the person expresses being okay with how you are regarding sex, and is willing to ask before proceeding with anything to make sure you're okay with it, you really shouldn't be put in the position where either you force out a no or they're going to have sex with you when you don't want them to. That's not how it should be. If you said yes because you felt obligated or pressured at no fault of their own, hopefully they would know you well enough to tell you really didn't want to and weren't reacting the way you would if you were genuinely okay with it and stop. And if they don't know you well enough to be able to tell when you're not into it at all, they shouldn't even be trying to go that far so early anyway.

And if they haven't been asking, and can't tell when you're uncomfortable after they don't ask or you say no, that's your cue to get the hell out of the relationship, because they don't care about your well-being. Best case scenario, you see what kind of person they are and leave the relationship before it amounts to failing to say no to sex.

The worst part is he probably should have known. We were friends for over a year before we dated for six months. And he knew I was really ex repulsed and asexual long before we started dating. And when he started expressing romantic interest in me he made sure to tell me he understood that I didn't want to have sex with him and that he was okay with that. Liar.

Also, does anyone here have any tips on HOW to get out of the relationship? I've never been in one before, and I don't know much about breakups. And I've had several people now tell me that I should cut off all contact with him entirely. But I don't know how to do that. I've tried to write a goodbye text but I just get anxious and don't know what to say. Especially not since he hasn't spoken to me in almost a week. (I haven't texted him either though, because I'm refusing to chase after him and apologize like I usually do when he runs off in the middle of arguments.) I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling right now, or how he'll react. Do I just tell him I'm done, nice knowing you? Do I tell him why? Should I talk to him about it first? Is there a nice way to put it that won't hurt him? Especially since lately (before he started ignoring me) he's been bringing up how he was anorexic and depressed until he met me and saying he'd have nothing/die without me.

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My concern is less with who the blame is on and more with trying to work out how I feel. Whether it was entirely my fault or the blame is split between both him and me, I feel violated and used. And I feel guilty for feeling that because it WAS my choice, and I have no right to let my mind paint the situation as coerced or forced when the problem was more me being too easily influenced and bending over backwards for him than him being forceful. It's been over a month since this happened, and I've started to accept that he's definitely a jerk. But you're right, I shouldn't have let this jerk use me. I do understand that.

Geez I know how you feel, I've been there. I did it for a whole year. And you don't need me to tell you how much it sucks. Honestly, it takes a while to get over (I still have moments of disgust from time to time myself, a whole 3 years later), but the sooner you view the situation as having been a choice you made (that they happened to benefit from much more than you did), the easier it becomes to view not forcing yourself to have sex you don't want as a choice too, and you'll find it easier to make the best choice for yourself next time, in different circumstances.

Ideally, they should've checked in with you during the process, given their knowledge of how hard you find it to say 'no', but focus on yourself in this circumstance, not them. Take possession of that choice and its consequences, don't beat yourself up over it, take special care of yourself for a bit, and you'll work out much better from this experience in the long run.

So like... instead of looking back and wishing I had never trusted him, I should focus on thinking if I could go back and do it over I would choose to say no, whether he's a jerk or not. Or something like that? How do you learn to make the choice not to force yourself? Before this mess I'd thought I was doing pretty well in terms of the whole personal sense of agency thing until I realized I've been giving in to every slightest bit of pressure from him from the beginning with him, aside from initially informing him at the start that I was sex repulsed and asexual. How do you learn to say no AND stick to it?

Ideally you'd be with someone who you wouldn't need to say 'no' no, because they wouldn't try to initiate sex once you've told them about your asexuality and sex-repulsion. Those two details should be things that are communicated early, probably even before you become exclusive with the person, because for many people it will be deal-breaker, and they'll want to hightail it out of there. But if the person expresses being okay with how you are regarding sex, and is willing to ask before proceeding with anything to make sure you're okay with it, you really shouldn't be put in the position where either you force out a no or they're going to have sex with you when you don't want them to. That's not how it should be. If you said yes because you felt obligated or pressured at no fault of their own, hopefully they would know you well enough to tell you really didn't want to and weren't reacting the way you would if you were genuinely okay with it and stop. And if they don't know you well enough to be able to tell when you're not into it at all, they shouldn't even be trying to go that far so early anyway.

And if they haven't been asking, and can't tell when you're uncomfortable after they don't ask or you say no, that's your cue to get the hell out of the relationship, because they don't care about your well-being. Best case scenario, you see what kind of person they are and leave the relationship before it amounts to failing to say no to sex.

The worst part is he probably should have known. We were friends for over a year before we dated for six months. And he knew I was really ex repulsed and asexual long before we started dating. And when he started expressing romantic interest in me he made sure to tell me he understood that I didn't want to have sex with him and that he was okay with that. Liar.

Also, does anyone here have any tips on HOW to get out of the relationship? I've never been in one before, and I don't know much about breakups. And I've had several people now tell me that I should cut off all contact with him entirely. But I don't know how to do that. I've tried to write a goodbye text but I just get anxious and don't know what to say. Especially not since he hasn't spoken to me in almost a week. (I haven't texted him either though, because I'm refusing to chase after him and apologize like I usually do when he runs off in the middle of arguments.) I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling right now, or how he'll react. Do I just tell him I'm done, nice knowing you? Do I tell him why? Should I talk to him about it first? Is there a nice way to put it that won't hurt him? Especially since lately (before he started ignoring me) he's been bringing up how he was anorexic and depressed until he met me and saying he'd have nothing/die without me.

This right here is your problem. You are still worried about his well-being despite all he has put you through. Stop that. This sure as hell should not be about him. I know it's hard, but you have to ignore his problems and what he's told you. By telling you about that stuff and how he'd have nothing without you, he's just using emotional manipulation to keep you around. It's not exactly an uncommon practice in an abusive relationship. For once, you need to put your own health and happiness before his, because you clearly haven't been doing that before. This needs to stop right now.

Figure out what you are going to say before you actually start the text. Talk through it with me, someone else on the site, or just someone you trust. Make sure you have made it clear that you are breaking up with him and no longer wish to keep in any contact with him, and him contacting you will be unwelcome. Whether or not you give your reasons for leaving him and list all he has done to cause it is up to you. After you have your text clearly established where there's nothing you want to add, delete or change, actually type it out and send it to him. If your anxiety continuously prevents you from writing or sending it, have a friend type it, read it over to make sure they got it right, and ask them to send it. If you think you will try to change your mind and make them delete it, make them aware of that beforehand and that they should send it anyway. After that text is sent by whatever means, do not return any responses he may leave, in any form. After that text is sent, ignore him. Block his number, delete him from any contacts you might have of him (phone number, email, etc.). If he tries to contact you on any site he knows you on, block him.

Yeah, it may seem drastic. But it's for your own good and you know it.

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Send him a text that says essentially "This is not working out, we should end things" ... and stop doing anything romantic with him. That's pretty much it. Yeah, it might hurt him. But, staying would hurt you. Just let him know it's over and it'll be over. No need for him to agree.

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I'm not even sure if his relationship with me IS abusive. It was with his ex, I see that now that I've heard the story from both his and her side. But with me I don't feel abused as much as I feel... inconsequential. Like, even with his ex, he went through all the trouble to hide things from her and manipulate her into staying and stringing her along so he could keep her. But with me, we have one small minor argument and now he hasn't spoken to me in a week. He left her for me, so why am I the bottom rung of his relationship ladder?

It's really hard to even think about completely letting go. I'm trying not to but I still remember good times and they felt real. And thinking of his face makes me wish he was who I thought he was. And I really want to know what will happen if I don't text him, if he'll ever text me back and what he'll say, and if I text him now to break up with him I'll never know.

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I'm not even sure if his relationship with me IS abusive. It was with his ex, I see that now that I've heard the story from both his and her side. But with me I don't feel abused as much as I feel... inconsequential. Like, even with his ex, he went through all the trouble to hide things from her and manipulate her into staying and stringing her along so he could keep her. But with me, we have one small minor argument and now he hasn't spoken to me in a week. He left her for me, so why am I the bottom rung of his relationship ladder?

It's really hard to even think about completely letting go. I'm trying not to but I still remember good times and they felt real. And thinking of his face makes me wish he was who I thought he was. And I really want to know what will happen if I don't text him, if he'll ever text me back and what he'll say, and if I text him now to break up with him I'll never know.

If it wasn't abusive, he'd be considering your feelings. If it wasn't abusive, he would be making sure you were alright before proceeding sexually. If it wasn't abusive, he wouldn't keep bring up his own depression and anorexia to manipulate you into staying with him. If it wasn't abusive, he wouldn't keep putting himself before you. It is abusive, and he's going to keep initiating sex with you, and you're going to keep failing to say no, and he's going to keep not caring that you're probably uncomfortable, and you're going to keep winding up right back here with the same problems. None of us can help you if you won't help yourself, or even acknowledge that there's a problem.

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