Desire of partnered sex vs Desire of sensations, only provided by partnered sex

[Qwerty321]

Are they the same? Or they are different things?

A brief explanation: there are some sensations, that can be provided only by partnered sex, not by masturbation (for example, the sensation when one's receiving a BJ).

So, the question is: does the desire of such sensations make one a sexual person? Or they can still be asexual, if it's only desire of sensations themselves, but not the whole thing?

[RK800]

Those seem like different things to me. One is the desire to actually have sex with someone for various reasons while the other is more about gratification (I assume they're different because most of the latter could be achieved....er, other ways? Without another person?).

[Qwerty321]

I mean a desire of those sensations that can't be achieved by themselves.

[Qwerty321]

If you desire the sensations of partnered sex... erm, doesn't that mean you desire partnered sex? It seems like hair-splitting to me.

I get that you're probably suggesting that the person who desires the sensations isn't specifically sexually, romantically or otherwise interested in their partner, but lots of sexual people have casual sex just for the sex. It doesn't mean they're asexual. They're just not emotionally connected to their partner (in that particular instance, anyway; when it comes to actual full relationships, I'm pretty certain many sexual people prefer to be with someone they care about and in whom they're interested).

So yeah, if you're repeatedly seeking out partnered sex because you like it, you're not asexual as far as I'm concerned. I would call someone asexual only if their reasoning for having sex was to experiment out of curiosity and they didn't continue doing it repeatedly after they'd discovered it wasn't really their thing.

It started this thread after the discussion about things which don't invalidate one's asexuality:

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/129912-activities-that-do-not-invalidate-your-asexuality/

I don't agree. Asexual can continue seeking and finding partnered sex just because they think it's "cool", "everybody does it" and so on, not because of desire.

[Lost247365]

I think that is mistaking the trees for the forest.

I think desiring sensations that can only be achieved through partnered sexual contact is just one element from the larger group called desire for partnered sex.

[Lady Norgard]

Part of me thinks that desiring the feeling of partnered sex would make someone sexual, not asexual. At the end of the day it is a desire for partnered sex.

But then I know that asexuality is about attraction not desire, so I'm not 100% sure. But I do think desiring sex makes someone sexual.

[Guest]

Such a person the OP described would be sexual, not asexual.

Explanation:

Plenty of sexual people only prefer partnered sex to masturbation *because* of the different sensations involved; partnered sex just feels better and there are things other people can do to your genitals that you can't do to them yourself. So regardless of whether or not one actively desires sex with a specific person or only desires the things that can be done to them sexually by another person (ie blowjob) that's still on the sexual spectrum, not the asexual spectrum.

Asexuality is better defined as "a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for you own physical and/or emotional pleasure" That sums it up pretty much. The sexual attraction definition is meaningless as not all sexual people experience sexual attraction and for many who do, it's not a defining factor in how or why they choose sexual partners. The only thing all sexual people have in common is that they have an underlying desire to have partnered sex as a preference to solo masturbation, under certain circumstances. All other factors like who they choose to have sex with, how they choose that person, and why they choose the sex (ie being in love with a person, just being horny and wanting to get off with whoever is willing, finding someone attractive and wanting to connect sexually with them because of their appearance, just enjoying sex for the sake of sex, preferring the feelings of partnered sex to masturbation etc etc) are variable.

Asexuals lack the underlying preference for partnered sex to experience pleasure pretty much. And yes sexual people can prefer partnered sex purely for the emotional pleasure they experience from it (intimacy, love, bonding) which is why I prefer to add the emotional part to the desire-based definition. For many sexual people, the emotional aspects of partnered sex are far more important than the physical aspects.

An asexual can have sex, obviously, but for reasons like what CBC radio girl described above, not out of a personal desire to experience pleasure.

[dissolved]

Part of me thinks that desiring the feeling of partnered sex would make someone sexual, not asexual. At the end of the day it is a desire for partnered sex.

But then I know that asexuality is about attraction not desire, so I'm not 100% sure. But I do think desiring sex makes someone sexual.

You've pretty much hit on the problem right there. The thing is, it seems there's no universal definition for asexuality. A lot of people think the "lack of sexual attraction = asexuality" definition is flawed.

It's very flawed, because not every sexual person experiences this magical "sexual attraction". It cannot be the deciding factor.

But then, because of the different reasons for desiring sexual contact/partnered sex, it'll again get complicated as to who can "be" asexual. I agree that an innate (or similar word) desire for sexual stuff would make someone sexual, but someone (for example) who seeks out sex because of the way it feels is in my opinion, not asexual. You're either bothered about sex and you want it (for many reasons) or you're not bothered in the slightest, maybe want to have a kid or please your partner or whatever. It should be that simple, but this is AVEN, where nothing is ever simple.

EDIT: my tablet didn't update while I was writing, but pan as usual makes more sense than me :D

[Mundane Mesh]

Such a person the OP described would be sexual, not asexual.

Explanation:

Plenty of sexual people only prefer partnered sex to masturbation *because* of the different sensations involved; partnered sex just feels better and there are things other people can do to your genitals that you can't do to them yourself. So regardless of whether or not one actively desires sex with a specific person or only desires the things that can be done to them sexually by another person (ie blowjob) that's still on the sexual spectrum, not the asexual spectrum.

Asexuality is better defined as "a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for you own physical and/or emotional pleasure" That sums it up pretty much. The sexual attraction definition is meaningless as not all sexual people experience sexual attraction and for many who do, it's not a defining factor in how or why they choose sexual partners. The only thing all sexual people have in common is that they have an underlying desire to have partnered sex as a preference to solo masturbation, under certain circumstances. All other factors like who they choose to have sex with, how they choose that person, and why they choose the sex (ie being in love with a person, just being horny and wanting to get off with whoever is willing, finding someone attractive and wanting to connect sexually with them because of their appearance, just enjoying sex for the sake of sex, preferring the feelings of partnered sex to masturbation etc etc) are variable.

Asexuals lack the underlying preference for partnered sex to experience pleasure pretty much. And yes sexual people can prefer partnered sex purely for the emotional pleasure they experience from it (intimacy, love, bonding) which is why I prefer to add the emotional part to the desire-based definition. For many sexual people, the emotional aspects of partnered sex are far more important than the physical aspects.

An asexual can have sex, obviously, but for reasons like what CBC radio girl described above, not out of a personal desire to experience pleasure.

"a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for you own physical and/or emotional pleasure"

I kinda like that definition of asexuality. It is far less ambiguous than any other I've seen. Although that can have some downsides as well. If the line between sexual and asexual is more pronounced it can easily leave some groups that normally are considdered sexual/asexual on the wrong side of it.

For example; what about sex repulsed sexuals? (I think that might be a thing, right? Although I guess it's not that common.) They wouldn't find sex "pleasurable" yet are drawn to it. Maybe replace "pleasure" with the more general "sensation", i.e. "a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for the purpose of experiencing physical and/or emotional sensations". In that way you don't specify if the experience should be perceived as positive or negative.

And what about sex favorable asexuals? They can enjoy sex. Is the difference that they don't think partnered sex adds any desirable experience beyond what you can get without it?

Anyway, I agree that what OP describes would be sexual attraction and/or a desire for partnered sex. As I said in another thread "If desire for partnered sex isn't about desiring sexual sensations with other people, then what is a desire for partnered sex?" On another note, I always thought sexual attraction is the same thing as desire for partnered sex. I guess attraction is a more ambiguous word, but to me they mean the same thing.

[Hooded_Crow]

Still asexual. Being sexual is about desiring a specific person/gender. If you don't have sexual desire for a person, you are asexual.

[Guest]

Still asexual. Being sexual is about desiring a specific person/gender. If you don't have sexual desire for a person, you are asexual.

There are plenty of sexual people who just desire sex in general without it being directed at anyone, as what makes them sexual is the fact that they have an underlying desire for partnered sexual contact for sexual and/or emotional pleasure under certain circumstances (ie for intimacy when in love).

And the fact is, if you go to a certain person for sex for ANY REASON (even if it's just because right then you need sex and someone who you don't find attractive in any way offers you sex so you take up the offer, or you have sex with a romantic partner who you don't find physically attractive but you do it for the emotional pleasure you get from the sex because of the intimacy it creates) the moment you have sex *with them* (out of a desire for your own emotional and/or physical pleasure) you are desiring sex *with them*. If you weren't desiring it (as in "I have absolutely no desire to do this at all") you would have a lot of trouble actually doing it/enjoying it, see my point?

[Guest]

Such a person the OP described would be sexual, not asexual.

Explanation:

Plenty of sexual people only prefer partnered sex to masturbation *because* of the different sensations involved; partnered sex just feels better and there are things other people can do to your genitals that you can't do to them yourself. So regardless of whether or not one actively desires sex with a specific person or only desires the things that can be done to them sexually by another person (ie blowjob) that's still on the sexual spectrum, not the asexual spectrum.

Asexuality is better defined as "a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for you own physical and/or emotional pleasure" That sums it up pretty much. The sexual attraction definition is meaningless as not all sexual people experience sexual attraction and for many who do, it's not a defining factor in how or why they choose sexual partners. The only thing all sexual people have in common is that they have an underlying desire to have partnered sex as a preference to solo masturbation, under certain circumstances. All other factors like who they choose to have sex with, how they choose that person, and why they choose the sex (ie being in love with a person, just being horny and wanting to get off with whoever is willing, finding someone attractive and wanting to connect sexually with them because of their appearance, just enjoying sex for the sake of sex, preferring the feelings of partnered sex to masturbation etc etc) are variable.

Asexuals lack the underlying preference for partnered sex to experience pleasure pretty much. And yes sexual people can prefer partnered sex purely for the emotional pleasure they experience from it (intimacy, love, bonding) which is why I prefer to add the emotional part to the desire-based definition. For many sexual people, the emotional aspects of partnered sex are far more important than the physical aspects.

An asexual can have sex, obviously, but for reasons like what CBC radio girl described above, not out of a personal desire to experience pleasure.

"a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for you own physical and/or emotional pleasure"

I kinda like that definition of asexuality. It is far less ambiguous than any other I've seen. Although that can have some downsides as well. If the line between sexual and asexual is more pronounced it can easily leave some groups that normally are considdered sexual/asexual on the wrong side of it.

For example; what about sex repulsed sexuals? (I think that might be a thing, right? Although I guess it's not that common.) They wouldn't find sex "pleasurable" yet are drawn to it. Maybe replace "pleasure" with the more general "sensation", i.e. "a lack of an innate desire for partnered sex for the purpose of experiencing physical and/or emotional sensations". In that way you don't specify if the experience should be perceived as positive or negative.

And what about sex favorable asexuals? They can enjoy sex. Is the difference that they don't think partnered sex adds any desirable experience beyond what you can get without it?

Anyway, I agree that what OP describes would be sexual attraction and/or a desire for partnered sex. As I said in another thread "If desire for partnered sex isn't about desiring sexual sensations with other people, then what is a desire for partnered sex?" On another note, I always thought sexual attraction is the same thing as desire for partnered sex. I guess attraction is a more ambiguous word, but to me they mean the same thing.

Sexual attraction is a desire for sexual intimacy with a specific person for whatever reason (maybe you're in love with them, maybe you find them attractive, Maybe you can't even work out why you want sex with them but you do)

However 1) not all Sexual people experience this. Plenty just have a desire for sex in general and will have it with who they can get it with without necessarily having their sexual desire directed at anyone.. Plenty of sexual people have sex with people they are not sexually attracted to, they just want the sex so have it if offered. Others will ONLY have sex with people they are sexually attracted to. Some sexual people only have sex with their romantic partners for the emotional pleasure the sex brings, the physical pleasure they get from sex is secondary, and yes this is even it they don't find their romantic partner aesthetically attractive (surprise, sexual people can desire sex for reasons other than appearance, appearance doesn't even matter for some sexual people)

So what I'm getting at is that yes some sexual people experience sexual attraction, but it's only one *expression* of the underlying innate desire for partnered sex, an aspect of it that some people experience and some don't. And it's certainly not the defining factor in sexuality or asexuality.

In regards to the word "pleasure" .. a sex repulsed person who seeks sex out is still desiring the sexual pleasure they will get from doing that with a partner. They may be very repulsed by the act, but still get pleasure out of their orgasm.

In regards to "sex favorable" asexual (a term I don't like, to me if you're actively having sex you're either sex indifferent, or grey-asexual if you *favor* it) HOWEVER, I do know some asexuals can enjoy the sensations of sex when they do have it (even rape victims can orgasm during an attack, sometimes the body does it's own thing regardless of what's happening in your mind) Anyway, these asexuals who enjoy the sensations of sex are still asexual if they don't actively desire the sex for their own pleasure. If they only do it because their partner needs it, or they're trying to make a baby or whatever, then that's still asexual even if they orgasm etc. If however they will initiate sex out of a desire for the pleasure they receive from partnered sex, that would be someone on the sexual spectrum (or grey-asexual it you still feel you are so vastly different from sexual people as to somehow not be one of them)

This is the question I like to ask, to indicate whether someone might be asexual or not:

Would you rather:

Live a perfectly happy life and have deep, meaningful romantic and/or platonic relationships with people who are your idea of amazing, while remaining totally celibate (no partnered sex ever) .. in this example all your romantic partners are asexual so there is never any pressure for sex, you are totally free to be happily celibate forever and still have all the love and companionship you desire.

Or

Live the exact same happy life with the amazing relationshps with amazing people, with the inclusion of joyful and/or loving and/or pleasurable partnered sex when you feel like having it (ie with romantic partners and/or people you find particularly attractive and/or people who are available and willing to have sex)

If you go with the first one, indication of asexuality.

Second one, indication of sexuality.

And if you can't work it out or your answers have to be a weird mix of both examples, then maybe demisexual or grey asexual.

Not everyone will always fit perfectly into any definition of asexuality, but the point is just trying to find one as accurate as possible that people can actually *understand*.. the current one is interpreted however anyone wants depending on how they define sexual attraction, and while some would love asexuality to be an all-inclusive orientation that literally anyone can identify with, I perosnally would rather asexuality be taken seriously by the outside world. :)

Please excuse the massive quotes. I'm on my phone so can't edit them, I'll sort them out (and the typos too) when I get home.

[Telecaster68]

"1) not all Sexual people experience this. Plenty just have a desire for sex in general and will have it with who they can get it with without necessarily having their sexual desire directed at anyone.. Plenty of sexual people have sex with people they are not sexually attracted to, they just want the sex so have it if offered. Others will ONLY have sex with people they are sexually attracted to. Some sexual people only have sex with their romantic partners for the emotional pleasure the sex brings, the physical pleasure they get from sex is secondary, and yes this is even it they don't find their romantic partner aesthetically attractive (surprise, sexual people can desire sex for reasons other than appearance, appearance doesn't even matter for some sexual people)"

And they're not constants over time either. I've wanted different combinations of those at different times.

[Peachyy]

Why claim not to be attracted to drinking soy milk, but have it anyway because you like the sweet flavor-- that sweet flavor is sweet because it is soy milk. Why have people believe that you dont want to drink soy milk if you like what it is that makes soy milk, soy milk? Why take the title "a-soy milk" if your mouth waters when you think about pouring it over your morning bran flakes, and then finish the bowl when you do? its like... Saying that you dont want partnered sex, but you like to have sex with a partner. Being able to feel another person do sexual things to you is partnered sex. And we all understand that people vary and who, what, where, how sex is done matters with our own personal identification of orientation--but asexual, how?

But only you know what you are. Im actually sexual, even though I dont desire partnered sex. And my landlord is actually straight, even though he isnt attracted to women. And my sister actually isnt a bitch...there are lots of ways that people can zig zag around, naturally, but it doesnt make sense to stay in a column that doesnt represent you as well as another does, if we're so concerned about having these labels in the first place to explain who we are. I dont call myself asexual just for myself, I dont need to google the term. Why be an asexual that is not asexual? becuase sexualitues are not so rigid and they are unique, but there is nothing wrong with being a sexual person who (like all people) has a varience with how they may feel their attraction.

[PerennialDarkness]

Wait, sorry I'm not sure if I understand this right. If somebody does not experience sexual attraction, yet desires partnered sex for their own sake/pleasure, wouldn't that make them Cupiosexual(fall under the Ace Spectrum)? I was under the impression that you need to have experienced sexual attraction to be sexual. Or do Cupiosexuals desire partnered sex for reasons other than their own sake(making a baby etc.)?

[Qwerty321]

I'm not that good at ace spectrum, the only thing I know is wanting sex for making a baby, pleasuring a partner or curiosity doesn't make a person asexual.

[purplemutant]

It's tricky. But I would be inclined to say they are still ace. Since they are only after a physical sensation not intimate human contact. If that sensation could be achieved with sex toys; and the person still wanted a BJ; then they aren't asexual. But if they go for sex because there is no other way to obtain those sensations; then asexual would fit. I would bet that most (all?) (allo)sexuals would still have sex even if there were toys that gave them better orgasms. Simply because the toys lack human contact. An asexual would choose the toys over people every time.

[El-not-so-ace]

If that is to be an ace, the percent of asexuals would skyrocket to maybe 30-40% at the very least... :P