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The 2015 Ace Community Census


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The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

I don't think there are enough people who would choose this as a response to warrant it as a clickable option. For now, anyone who doesn't see their option listed or cannot answer the "Gender Identity" question will have to choose "Other," which is what that option is there for. It'd be interesting to see what the results to "Other" are though because that will inform the survey team of what options might be better included as a clickable option.

I say that this is wrong. I say there are more people and asexuals like this than you think, if only they didn't get chased out of AVEN sometimes over excessive accusations of transphobia.

So that is really the heart of my feedback: the language of this question is reflective of an alienating, left-wing bias.

I never stated how many asexuals I think believe this, although last year's census showed that the number of people who wrote that in was in the single digits. I think there needs to be a lot more people writing it in before those working on the survey are going to see the use for it being included as an option. (This survey isn't only shared on AVEN either; it's shared on many other online platforms some of which are more left-wing than AVEN and others that are less left-wing.) In essence, I'm not basing it on how many asexuals I think believe this; I'm basing it on how high of a percentage I think it and any other additions are needed before they should be included as clickable options in the survey.

The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

Admittedly, I also tripped over this. While I'm not entirely sure what exactly you mean by "left-wing gender ideology" [but then again, I'm not entirely sure what people mean by "gender"], I would agree that "I don't have a gender identity" is not the same as saying "I don't share or agree with [or understand or find relevant] the concept of gender identity". The 'other' option implies an agreement or even an understanding of gender identity and as such is indeed insufficient.

The idea that gender and sex is the same might well be worth a mention as opposed to taking their difference for granted. "Do you consider the distinction between sex and gender to be useful?" might be a pertinent question that could lead to interesting results.

I don't think the "other" option implies an agreement or understanding of gender identity. It's a catch-all, an option that's designed to include responses such as "I don't understand the concept of this question/I don't agree with the inherent premises or implications of this question/etc." For now, it's the only option for those who "don't agree with the concept of gender or gender theory or who don't believe in the distinction between sex and gender" or for anyone else who cannot satisfactorily answer that question. If enough people were to write that in as a response, then there's a case to be made for it to be included. But until then, there's not much of a case for it. It's a minority opinion and the fact of the matter is the online asexual community is left-wing and does take for granted the difference between biological sex and gender identity.

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I think there should be a question that asks, if any kind of sexual coercion was involved, was the offenders/partner encountered etc aware of the person's asexual orientation

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The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

I don't think there are enough people who would choose this as a response to warrant it as a clickable option. For now, anyone who doesn't see their option listed or cannot answer the "Gender Identity" question will have to choose "Other," which is what that option is there for. It'd be interesting to see what the results to "Other" are though because that will inform the survey team of what options might be better included as a clickable option.

I say that this is wrong. I say there are more people and asexuals like this than you think, if only they didn't get chased out of AVEN sometimes over excessive accusations of transphobia.

So that is really the heart of my feedback: the language of this question is reflective of an alienating, left-wing bias.

I never stated how many asexuals I think believe this, although last year's census showed that the number of people who wrote that in was in the single digits. I think there needs to be a lot more people writing it in before those working on the survey are going to see the use for it being included as an option. (This survey isn't only shared on AVEN either; it's shared on many other online platforms some of which are more left-wing than AVEN and others that are less left-wing.) In essence, I'm not basing it on how many asexuals I think believe this; I'm basing it on how high of a percentage I think it and any other additions are needed before they should be included as clickable options in the survey.

The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

Admittedly, I also tripped over this. While I'm not entirely sure what exactly you mean by "left-wing gender ideology" [but then again, I'm not entirely sure what people mean by "gender"], I would agree that "I don't have a gender identity" is not the same as saying "I don't share or agree with [or understand or find relevant] the concept of gender identity". The 'other' option implies an agreement or even an understanding of gender identity and as such is indeed insufficient.

The idea that gender and sex is the same might well be worth a mention as opposed to taking their difference for granted. "Do you consider the distinction between sex and gender to be useful?" might be a pertinent question that could lead to interesting results.

I don't think the "other" option implies an agreement or understanding of gender identity. It's a catch-all, an option that's designed to include responses such as "I don't understand the concept of this question/I don't agree with the inherent premises or implications of this question/etc." For now, it's the only option for those who "don't agree with the concept of gender or gender theory or who don't believe in the distinction between sex and gender" or for anyone else who cannot satisfactorily answer that question. If enough people were to write that in as a response, then there's a case to be made for it to be included. But until then, there's not much of a case for it. It's a minority opinion and the fact of the matter is the online asexual community is left-wing and does take for granted the difference between biological sex and gender identity.

I just don't get how you can use the results of a flawed census to explain why the census isn't flawed. We have to assume that the wording would have affected the amounts. I mean, there are people that might agree with my views but just answer questions without really thinking about them. As such, they could misidentify. This is why you have to be careful in how you word questions or answers. The givers' biases can lead to incorrect responses.

Acknowledging this and then citing the previous stats that were gathered with apparently the same flaw seems to be an exercise in self-contradiction.

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The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

I don't think there are enough people who would choose this as a response to warrant it as a clickable option. For now, anyone who doesn't see their option listed or cannot answer the "Gender Identity" question will have to choose "Other," which is what that option is there for. It'd be interesting to see what the results to "Other" are though because that will inform the survey team of what options might be better included as a clickable option.

I say that this is wrong. I say there are more people and asexuals like this than you think, if only they didn't get chased out of AVEN sometimes over excessive accusations of transphobia.

So that is really the heart of my feedback: the language of this question is reflective of an alienating, left-wing bias.

I never stated how many asexuals I think believe this, although last year's census showed that the number of people who wrote that in was in the single digits. I think there needs to be a lot more people writing it in before those working on the survey are going to see the use for it being included as an option. (This survey isn't only shared on AVEN either; it's shared on many other online platforms some of which are more left-wing than AVEN and others that are less left-wing.) In essence, I'm not basing it on how many asexuals I think believe this; I'm basing it on how high of a percentage I think it and any other additions are needed before they should be included as clickable options in the survey.

The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

Admittedly, I also tripped over this. While I'm not entirely sure what exactly you mean by "left-wing gender ideology" [but then again, I'm not entirely sure what people mean by "gender"], I would agree that "I don't have a gender identity" is not the same as saying "I don't share or agree with [or understand or find relevant] the concept of gender identity". The 'other' option implies an agreement or even an understanding of gender identity and as such is indeed insufficient.

The idea that gender and sex is the same might well be worth a mention as opposed to taking their difference for granted. "Do you consider the distinction between sex and gender to be useful?" might be a pertinent question that could lead to interesting results.

I don't think the "other" option implies an agreement or understanding of gender identity. It's a catch-all, an option that's designed to include responses such as "I don't understand the concept of this question/I don't agree with the inherent premises or implications of this question/etc." For now, it's the only option for those who "don't agree with the concept of gender or gender theory or who don't believe in the distinction between sex and gender" or for anyone else who cannot satisfactorily answer that question. If enough people were to write that in as a response, then there's a case to be made for it to be included. But until then, there's not much of a case for it. It's a minority opinion and the fact of the matter is the online asexual community is left-wing and does take for granted the difference between biological sex and gender identity.

I just don't get how you can use the results of a flawed census to explain why the census isn't flawed. We have to assume that the wording would have affected the amounts. I mean, there are people that might agree with my views but just answer questions without really thinking about them. As such, they could misidentify. This is why you have to be careful in how you word questions or answers. The givers' biases can lead to incorrect responses.

Acknowledging this and then citing the previous stats that were gathered with apparently the same flaw seems to be an exercise in self-contradiction.

Or alternatively, you could just count the people whose gender and sex match.

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Weighing in briefly on the gender options. If we don't include a particular option, that's not because we don't "like" people who would choose that option. That option is always there for people who need it, because there's the "other" write-in option. The issue is that we want to make immediately available the most popular options, because that reduces the amount of labor to read all the write-in responses, while still keeping the number of options reasonable.

One side effect, as you pointed out, is that people are more likely to pick one of the given options, even if a written answer would be more accurate. We could reduce that kind of error by including more of the unpopular options, in order from most popular to least popular. But based on last year's results, there are literally a dozen unlisted gender responses which were more popular than opposition to gender. We certainly do worry about underestimating these groups, but we're not going to include another dozen options, it's just not worth it. So, no. But thanks for your concern.

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Or alternatively, you could just count the people whose gender and sex match.

We already explained how that is not the same thing, at all. It's deceptively similar and thus skews the data, sabotaging the integrity of the census. It's like saying that not picking an attraction preference on your Facebook profile is the same as noting that you are asexual. The only thing that will clearly state you are asexual is an option that states such.

We already went over this in a rather thorough amount of detail too. Did you not read any of it?

Weighing in briefly on the gender options. If we don't include a particular option, that's not because we don't "like" people who would choose that option. That option is always there for people who need it, because there's the "other" write-in option. The issue is that we want to make immediately available the most popular options, because that reduces the amount of labor to read all the write-in responses, while still keeping the number of options reasonable.

One side effect, as you pointed out, is that people are more likely to pick one of the given options, even if a written answer would be more accurate. We could reduce that kind of error by including more of the unpopular options, in order from most popular to least popular. But based on last year's results, there are literally a dozen unlisted gender responses which were more popular than opposition to gender. We certainly do worry about underestimating these groups, but we're not going to include another dozen options, it's just not worth it. So, no. But thanks for your concern.

To me, this seems like a rather tepid defense of the status quo and an exaggeration of what I said. At least a couple of answers for people to express a dissenting view on the prevailing narrative of gender in left-wing circles is completely reasonable. I don't think a dozen was ever proposed in this thread. Meanwhile, there are labels in there that I find baffling, nebulous, and not clearly defined in the slightest, and this is, apparently, perfectly acceptable (which it well may be). How is a clickable option that clearly states that the surveyed does not agree with or see the value in gender identity so unwarranted and so unwelcome?

I just don't get how left-wing doctrines frequently claim to be about being pluralistic, non-prejudiced, and accepting of all on a given social spectrum, but then they turn on these ideals the moment some people emerge as sincere, genuine, yet uncomfortable exceptions.

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The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

I don't think there are enough people who would choose this as a response to warrant it as a clickable option. For now, anyone who doesn't see their option listed or cannot answer the "Gender Identity" question will have to choose "Other," which is what that option is there for. It'd be interesting to see what the results to "Other" are though because that will inform the survey team of what options might be better included as a clickable option.

I say that this is wrong. I say there are more people and asexuals like this than you think, if only they didn't get chased out of AVEN sometimes over excessive accusations of transphobia.

So that is really the heart of my feedback: the language of this question is reflective of an alienating, left-wing bias.

I never stated how many asexuals I think believe this, although last year's census showed that the number of people who wrote that in was in the single digits. I think there needs to be a lot more people writing it in before those working on the survey are going to see the use for it being included as an option. (This survey isn't only shared on AVEN either; it's shared on many other online platforms some of which are more left-wing than AVEN and others that are less left-wing.) In essence, I'm not basing it on how many asexuals I think believe this; I'm basing it on how high of a percentage I think it and any other additions are needed before they should be included as clickable options in the survey.

I just don't get how you can use the results of a flawed census to explain why the census isn't flawed. We have to assume that the wording would have affected the amounts. I mean, there are people that might agree with my views but just answer questions without really thinking about them. As such, they could misidentify. This is why you have to be careful in how you word questions or answers. The givers' biases can lead to incorrect responses.

Acknowledging this and then citing the previous stats that were gathered with apparently the same flaw seems to be an exercise in self-contradiction.

I only cited the previous stats to show that that is the only (as far as I know) concrete data we have on the matter. That doesn't mean I agree they accurately represent the number of people who actually believe it; in fact, I don't. But I'm not going to base whether or not an option should be included on my opinion only. Also, this survey just covers trends in the asexual community (it's not an academic study; it's not a specified study on asexuality and gender or beliefs on gender identity), so a lot of specified identities and/or beliefs are not going to be covered in depth. They simply can't all be accounted for and it's a matter of deciding how popular the option appears to be in the asexual community at large and based on previous census results.

Weighing in briefly on the gender options. If we don't include a particular option, that's not because we don't "like" people who would choose that option. That option is always there for people who need it, because there's the "other" write-in option. The issue is that we want to make immediately available the most popular options, because that reduces the amount of labor to read all the write-in responses, while still keeping the number of options reasonable.

One side effect, as you pointed out, is that people are more likely to pick one of the given options, even if a written answer would be more accurate. We could reduce that kind of error by including more of the unpopular options, in order from most popular to least popular. But based on last year's results, there are literally a dozen unlisted gender responses which were more popular than opposition to gender. We certainly do worry about underestimating these groups, but we're not going to include another dozen options, it's just not worth it. So, no. But thanks for your concern.

To me, this seems like a rather tepid defense of the status quo and an exaggeration of what I said. At least a couple of answers for people to express a dissenting view on the prevailing narrative of gender in left-wing circles is completely reasonable. I don't think a dozen was ever proposed in this thread. Meanwhile, there are labels in there that I find baffling, nebulous, and not clearly defined in the slightest, and this is, apparently, perfectly acceptable (which it well may be). How is a clickable option that clearly states that the surveyed does not agree with or see the value in gender identity so unwarranted and so unwelcome?

I just don't get how left-wing doctrines frequently claim to be about being pluralistic, non-prejudiced, and accepting of all on a given social spectrum, but then they turn on these ideals the moment some people emerge as sincere, genuine, yet uncomfortable exceptions.

I don't think this is the case. For example, the term "sapioromantic" was not included as an option in the Romantic Identity section of the survey, despite the fact that it is fairly common to see around the asexual community. A number of people on AVEN have it listed under their orientation; there are a lot of threads here on it; it's pretty common on tumblr and reddit and it's been mentioned in a few news articles. But it was not included in the survey - the reason being that there weren't enough write-in responses for the survey team to justify adding it as a clickable option.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Perissodactyla

"The survey will be open starting today (October 22) until November 15th."

Why is it that I can still launch the survey today on December 3?

Is the survey still open or did someone forget to 'close' it?

When will the results of the survey be announced?

Maybe I missed something ... in answer to these questions?

:)

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"The survey will be open starting today (October 22) until November 15th."

Why is it that I can still launch the survey today on December 3?

Is the survey still open or did someone forget to 'close' it?

When will the results of the survey be announced?

Maybe I missed something ... in answer to these questions?

:)

I forgot to edit that part! I just edited it now; the deadline has been extended, and the survey is still open. We plan on keeping it open for 1 more week.

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Perissodactyla

Wow! I had no idea the census was still open 2.5 weeks after the previously announced deadline.

That's great, but since I've just been waiting patiently for an eventual announcement of the results, I forgot about it until today.

Before November 15, the former deadline, I occasionally announced the poll manually in chat and status update, and a lot of people said they weren't aware of it, but were very glad to participate.

Had I known there was an extension, I could have spent the last couple of weeks occasionally reminding people to do it, especially newbies who perhaps missed the announcement and may not have familiarity with the census concept.

It might be nice to eventually commit to an ending day, unless the extension is actually really open beyond one week from now. :)

It's great that people have more opportunity to participate, especially since I've in the past seen so many polls with a small response relative to the potential response.

Thanks. :)

I forgot to edit that part! I just edited it now; the deadline has been extended, and the survey is still open. We plan on keeping it open for 1 more week.

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Perissodactyla

I will continue to announce the census questionnaire via status update as long as the census is open.

I forgot to edit that part! I just edited it now; the deadline has been extended, and the survey is still open. We plan on keeping it open for 1 more week.

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Quick reminder that the results will be posted on the survey blog, so if you want the latest news and analysis, be sure to follow the blog!

If you wish to use the data in the survey, join the analysis team, or if you have any other questions, please email us at asexualcensus@gmail.com

The Chinese and Spanish versions of the survey are still open. It would be closing soon, so grab your chance to participate!

See you next year!

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