Jea Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Hi :) This is probably a bit of a weird question. I feel like, online, there are a lot of non-cis people, and a lot of non-allo people. Irl, I seem to see only cis allo people. I understand that we do not know about a person's identity unless they tell us about it. Therefore, knowing allo people makes sense to me, most aren't out. But for all of those who aren't cis...isn't it visible in the way you act/dress etc? I'm not extremely feminine (I just wear jeans and hoodies and hiking shoes), but I'm still a cis girl, because that's who I feel I am. But I wondered if, perhaps, some of the people around me can be agender, genderfluid or bigender, or any of those non-cis identities. So I suppose my question is...in how far is it visible? I hope I don't offend anyone with this question. It is mainly curiosity, but I'd also want to be able to help people come out, or figure themselves out irl as I try to do online, as well as fight stereotypes by educating myself ^_^ Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Rainbow Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I am not out at all Irl. I dress pretty not-girly except for if I need to wear a dress, but other than that, no. I actually am planning on coming out to all of my friends at a party, so yeah(but I've had three chances to do so, so I doubt it will happen this time.). But no, I'm not out yet Irl. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm somewhat agender and it manifests itself in the fact that I don't feel comfortable at all with my post-puberty body. People will often comment that I don't seem like I feel "at home" in my body, but they tend to chalk that up to my mental issues and the "goal" of therapy has often been to try to make me feel more "at home" (hasn't worked, for obvious reasons). A few years ago you might have noticed because I preferred to have long hair that hides the sharp edges of my face/head, and was wearing baggy clothing to make the broad shape of my torso less visible. But these days I try to project a male image for convenience. Having a strongly male body, I feel it's easier to seem "attractive"/"normal" adhering to male stereotypes when it comes to clothing and that. Link to post Share on other sites
fiѕh Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I get called gay a lot at least... more or less jokingly, I'm sure they all know that a) it doesn't make me actually gay and b) gays aren't all sparkling fairys with broken wrists. Anyway, I guess it's obvious I don't care all that much about my sex without people knowing about all these gender labels and stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
butterflydreams Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Confirmation bias? Maybe online you're just in spaces like this one where people tend to congregate. I'm a heck of a lot more open about stuff online because there's far less risk. If stuff starts to get ugly, I can just close my computer and go do something else. Not so in real life. As for being obvious in the way I act/dress. That's honestly all over the map. People who know me know I'm already kind of eccentric and weird, so a lot of it can be chalked up to that. To me, it feels very obvious. "C'mon people, these are obviously women's shoes. I know it, and you know it. No need to hide it." I think it has to do a lot with the environment I'm in. People here just aren't going to assume anything about you, no matter how you act/dress, unless you tell them otherwise. I blame it on a large population of young and aging hippies. Link to post Share on other sites
Sleppy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I am open to my friends about my (not) gender and asexuality/romanticism to my friends. With family, not so much... I pretty much live in hoodies and jeans and it's fairly obvious to most that I am at least not interested/repulsed by sex. I've told no one but my friends about my gender because people assume I'm cis and I can live with that. People wouldn't ask me my gender because it's usually assumed that 'that girl is a girl' but if they did ask I would probably tell them. Link to post Share on other sites
neoclasic Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 See this: http://www.hrc.org/youth/view-statistics/#.Vhfwbit3rIU There, notice these two images: I guess between these two lies the explanation to your question, a_fox. Link to post Share on other sites
AlwaysADreamer Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not out at all irl. Sometimes the way I dress reflects my gender at the time, but not always. At the moment I feel neither need nor desire to come out to anyone. It's not a significant or insignificant part of my identity. It's just sort of there. Link to post Share on other sites
Desmister Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not out in real life but I do hope to be someday. I typically wear more masculine or gender neutral clothes over feminine ones, so I get called/asked if I'm a lesbian a lot. Nobody has ever asked about my gender though and I'm not going to go out of my way to tell them. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I am open about being androgyne to my friends, if they asked, but not yet to my parents. I've been dropping HUGE hints to my mom, saying every so often how I want people to look at me and go "Is that a boy or a girl?" She doesn't seem to be catching on though, so I plan on just telling her soon. Same thing with my asexuality, except my mom already knows I am not straight. And, as far as I know, I am the only asexual in my school. My friends want me to dance into a GSA meeting at my school and sing "The A stands for Asexual" LOL. So I consider myself open about it irl as well as online. EDIT: Oh, and for your outward appearance question, plenty of us are not cis yet dress and look like a specific gender. I know I look VERY girly irl, but I am not cis. At the same time, there are cis people who look androgynous (I have a friend who is like that). It is better to ask instead of assuming, since you never know. Link to post Share on other sites
Chardog Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Even if I dress tomboyish, I get hit on... Unless you get to know me, I appear cis-het. Cis-females quickly pick up on something not being right with me when I attempt to socialize with them (which then either classes me as someone for them to try and fix or reject completely). My best friend, who is gay, doesn't know how I identify but had definitely picked up that I'm not a typical woman (and he has had predominantly female friends for most of his life). Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Even if I dress tomboyish, I get hit on... Tomboy=/= unattractive or lesbian or ace. Darn. Link to post Share on other sites
anann Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 In my experience people just don't go around assuming anyone could not be cis and straight. I am out to friends but not to anyone associated with work or my career in general. I don't try to fit in as a female so I would think that once you get to know me it would be obvious I'm not cis or straight, but no one ever seems to guess. And despite the fact that I dress and look like a boy, no one questions that I would be anything other than female once I speak. Link to post Share on other sites
Chardog Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Even if I dress tomboyish, I get hit on... Tomboy=/= unattractive or lesbian or ace. Darn. I live in NYC.. Plenty of street harassment to go around. Males with no filter that just want a piece of ass as long as you've got the right equipment. And they even think that saying "God bless you" is a PC way of doing it (no, they're definitely not just being good Christians..). FML.. Even more fun whe I do wear femme clothes (which I do). Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I understand street harassment, but i dont see how it connects with femininity. Ive experienced it in any clothing equally. And, yep, all my acquintances have similar experience. Or matbe you meant non-revealing? Link to post Share on other sites
Chardog Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I understand street harassment, but i dont see how it connects with femininity. Ive experienced it in any clothing equally. And, yep, all my acquintances have similar experience. Or matbe you meant non-revealing? My point was- you get harassed whether you present in a feminine way or not. I almost get more wearing neutral clothing.. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.. Link to post Share on other sites
VindicatorPhoenix Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Being open about my gender can be tricky. Having social anxiety (either that or AvPD) and depression makes it a lot worse. Social gender dysphoria can hit me like a truck and it makes me avoid everyone I suspect might not be too accepting of my identity, even if they're close friends or family members. I'm open to a small portion of my family (the closest members) and they're very accepting. It took a while to ease into coming out but so far it's worked out quite nicely. Someday I'm gonna look very different (kinda androgynous/feminine) and hopefully that will amplify my confidence to be open about my gender with everyone. I'm a very rebellious and eccentric person and nothing makes me happier than staying true to myself, even if it means going my own way and defying the crowd. Link to post Share on other sites
Heart Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 If you were to pass me in the street, I look like every other cishet woman most days ;) In fact, you could probable go on youtube and find a video of a presentation I did with Southie a year ago or so, so see what I look like in a feminine day. Pretty darned normal and boring, I'm afraid, but you'll get there by searching some combination of the words Heart, Southie, Asexual, Relationships, WorldPride.. etc. If you're interested. Link to post Share on other sites
MazAu Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'm not extremely feminine (I just wear jeans and hoodies and hiking shoes), but I'm still a cis girl, because that's who I feel I am. But I wondered if, perhaps, some of the people around me can be agender, genderfluid or bigender, or any of those non-cis identities. So I suppose my question is...in how far is it visible? I'm AFAB near-agender non-binary and dress pretty much like you. I probably seem more gender-ambiguous than you do to the casual observer, tho, as I'm tall (almost 6ft), with swimmers shoulders and a Greek nose. I get Sir'd often. Once people hear my voice, I'm usually assumed to be a cis lesbian... occasionally a teenage boy (which is hysterical, as I'm in my mid 40s!) Link to post Share on other sites
Member95252 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I'm out to those who matter to me (e.g. Immediate family, a few aunts and uncle) but the way I dress/present myself hasn't changed at all. Ive always been considered a tomboy and even now, I just feel so uncomfortable in dresses or presenting female. I've always leaned towards presenting as masculine (without effort these days) and most of the time, I'm addressed as male. Plus, I usually speak in a low tone when speaking so perhaps that confuses people too. *shrugs* It doesn't bother me. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Im a DFAB and not open on my gender because its not safe to do so, I dress somewhere inbetween feminine-ish and a complete tomboy, my wardrobe is a complete mess but i try to look as girly as possible, try to imagine a female bodied person with hoodies,shirts,pants,sneakers and a purse.Thats me! Link to post Share on other sites
LadyErzsebet Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm not out to anyone but two people IRL and I think people who know me assume I'm a kinda butch cis lesbian (which, TBH, is how I used to identify, so yeah). Strangers sometimes assume I'm a guy, but I have an unfortunately high voice, especially when I'm being polite, so they usually correct to assuming I'm a girl when they hear me talk (or hear my name) >.< Link to post Share on other sites
Mostly Peaceful Ryan Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I dress as androgynously as possible which would make it near impossible to tell by just looking at me. I'm very shy and closed off about myself so it would be hard to tell with my actions as well unless you got close to me over time you'd notice if you were looking for it but it is unlikely for anyone to notice without being told before hand. I think I've had people question my sexual orientation more then my gender though. Link to post Share on other sites
Densoro Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 As far as clothing and stuff, I've had to acknowledge that masculine presentation is treated as the norm in our culture xD Frills and dresses and jewelry are regarded as extra, and I dress very plain. So people tend to perceive me as cis at a glance, which I stress over sometimes. Though it's worth mentioning I might start accessorizing if I wasn't flat broke. My lack of gender really comes out most in talking to me. There's the obvious things, like pointing out and challenging misogyny, gender essentialism, etc. But more than that, my mannerisms and body language in general leave people unsure how to deal with me. I go from very quiet and unobtrusive to cutesy and playful. I only take up space way out of everybody else's way, but I take up a lot of it -- and then immediately shrink back down if anybody needs to get past me. In conversations, I can hardly ever get a word in edgewise, so I wait for an invitation -- but if I speak, I stand firmly by what I say, and I get disappointed if the other person doesn't feel like they can meet me with equal effort. In terms of power dynamics, I would say I'm a bit like air: I expand to fill my container, but without getting in anybody's way. Link to post Share on other sites
dash Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm non-cis. I'm always read as cis IRL. I don't "look queer" to people, whatever that means in any culture or subculture. From time to time people aren't sure of my gender upon first meeting me, but they usually pretty quickly settle on "female". But since I'm not a woman, the issue isn't me "acting like a woman," whatever that means, so much as the people around me not being attuned to the existence of non-binary people. If X isn't a category you (general you) have in your map of the world, you're not going to see all the Xs around you, unless they massively stick out, and in that case, you're probably going to misread them as Ys. Or you may even know there are X people in the world, but have a stereotyped image of what you think they look like, and then be wrong 80% of the time. When it comes to gender, there is no "one way" to act or look trans, non-binary, etc., just like there isn't "one way" to look or act male, female, etc. So yes I'm probably one of those folks who talks about being non-cis online and who isn't "read" as such in person. There are probably a lot of such people, because many trans people pass, and many haven't transitioned, or can't come out IRL (or everywhere IRL) for some reason. Long ago, I was kinda sorta involved in a queer group, and I remember an incident that took place there (I wasn't around for it, but I heard about it). Someone in the group had decided to do something about trans inclusion, but in the way they raised the issue to the group, they assumed there were no trans people in the room (only cis gay, lesbian and bi people). They were wrong, and the trans person felt pretty hurt. A good rule of thumb is to just always assume in a group of people that anyone could be gay, lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, genderqueer, trans, intersex, gender fluid, agender, neutrois, bigender, non-binary, etc. etc., regardless of how they dress or look or whether they "look queer" or "look trans". (Along the same lines as never assuming things about people's ethnicities, never assuming things about whether people may have disabilities, etc.) Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Night isn't the absence of day, and not wearing your genderqueerness like a badge might only mean you're painted with something that casts different shadows in the daylight. And that genderwise we all look a little more androgynous in the pale moonlight. I just prefer to dance in the moonlight and avoid the sun. Doesn't mean I don't leave at least *some* breadcrumbs to be followed by those who think I'm interesting enough to seek out and find as a sisterfriend. Link to post Share on other sites
littlepersonparadox Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I get people asking me what my gender is IRL. Once my waiter actually stopped and asked me what my gender was. (and me being recently binding and the gender-mutt I am it made me very happy.) Some of my teachers automatically (but still hesitantly) assume i'm male and will use male pronouns right off the bat. I'll dress in men's cloths so there's that to consider. I'm out to a lot of my friends but not to everyone and I still get assumed to be female most of the time by people i'm not out to. Some people actually assumed i'm asexual and/or trans before i came out to them. Then again I was never good at hiding things. Link to post Share on other sites
littlepersonparadox Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I understand street harassment, but i dont see how it connects with femininity. Ive experienced it in any clothing equally. And, yep, all my acquintances have similar experience. Or matbe you meant non-revealing? My point was- you get harassed whether you present in a feminine way or not. I almost get more wearing neutral clothing.. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.. This reminds me of when i first started binding and doing more masculine things. When people i knew saw me in that but only know me a female and figure i'm not queer, they automatically started using female pronouns MORE not less. I figure for them they needed to reassure themselves somehow that yes i'm still a women. You know its not time to come out when at least..... Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I've overheard some people asking themselves if I'm lesbian, because I'm apparently not acting feminine enough for them (or too masculine) - em, right direction, wrong conclusion. Whoever it may concern knows I'm actually straight. There's no point for me to come out as genderless or something. It may make sense only if people understood what I would be talking about. And there's no point explaining it, because there's nothing I want from them in these terms (like pronouns). As far as they accept I'm not buying into "being a true woman", I'm fine. The reason I'm read more as gay than as androgynous is that I totally look like a girl: feminine face, long hair, feminine voice. But I managed to confuse strangers once or twice. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There's the obvious things, like pointing out and challenging misogyny, To be honest, challenging misogyny is just as much a sign of the cis-het male these days as anything else. There are lots of reasons to adopt this kind of stance if you want to get laid. It's just smart. Link to post Share on other sites
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