Children

[Kalyke]

You could say that if parents convince, say, a little girl that she exists only to be married, and that marriage and babies will be the crowning glory of her life, she will believe that. I have known people who think that success, is having kids, and despite the fact hat they have done nothing else substantial, having children is a personal triumph of some kind.

Obviously, asexual people have children. But still, my argument goes to what the family has said was the highest achievement that a person might have, (childbirth/sex) and that the biggest wish that a person might wish is related to sex.

Since this is so interwoven into the noosphere, there is really not much that anyone could say to convince people otherwise. I spoke to some teenage girls, and they believed this, and asked why I was not married and did not have children. When I said that many career oriented people did not have children, they nearly died of apoplexy. They do not know about the childless couples who don't have kids, and never will, out of choice) and cannot even understand it. To these girls, life was about getting pregnant.

This is their right, but it is rather far down on Maslow's pyramid.

[El-not-so-ace]

I grew up assuming I was going to have kids because, you're right, that's what we're taught. Nowadays, I'm okay with the idea but I can also survive with having amazing dogs that'll never have their teenage stage. :P

[nerdperson777]

I remember when I was 10, my friend said she wanted something like 4 kids. I said I didn't want any. My parents didn't object to me but I later realized that they just hoped me to grow out of it. Now they just want me to carry the genes somewhere since I'm an only child. If I can find an MtF zucchini and surrogate, sure.

[Scottthespy]

My father was adopted at a fairly old age...eleven. So growing up, the idea that I didnt want to birth children was not one that bothered the people in my life, the idea that I didn't want to deal with toddlers didn't phase them. It was always "If I ever want kids, I'll just adopt." And my family was fine with that...including the 'if ever' part. The notion that I might NOT ever was never harped upon or looked at with derision. And the people who I talk to, when it comes up, are mildly confused but generally act as though, while the idea never occurred to them, its perfectly fine. I do get asked why sometimes, but the answer "I just never got the urge" seems to satisfy. Maybe its the place I live in, which seems to be the most accepting place ever, judging by all the things people on Aven say they get flack for but I never do.

[Tarfeather]

Well, a society in which having children is not encouraged would die out soon enough, so it kind of seems like a no-brainer to me. Sure, expecting everyone to have children is taking a bit too far, but the idea that having children is pretty important shouldn't really surprise anyone.

[0000011113333]

i really really want children and being asexual kinda ruins my chances

[Rising Sun]

Having children is just one of many possible dreams, and if some people live for this, that's fine. What's not OK is if they try to convince others that their life is worthless without making babies.

[Melody.ExE]

My parents never pushed anything like that on to me, even though I'm an only child. I know my mum would like grandchildren one day, but every time she mentions it, she always follows it up with "but, if you don't want to have children that's fine too. It's not for everyone!"

As it turns out, I actually do want to have a baby one day! I sort of feel the same as the people you described in your OP, I think having a baby would be my biggest achievement, and I often get quite broody! In my head, it just doesn't link to sex... I mean, I would have sex for the sake of having a baby, but when I think about being pregnant, or raising a child in the future, I never think about the conception at all...

The long and short of it is, I think it's wrong to judge all people by the same standard - I completely understand the desire to have children, but if anyone doesn't want to have children, that's up to them!

[AgentKEW]

Oh my gosh I hate this mess. I feel like the Church worships marriage and children instead of God these days. That's not only wrong, but beyond annoying. I get a ton of flack for not wanting biological kids (I have some genetic issues I refuse to pass on) even when I say that I might consider adopting someday (unlikely with my unstable mental health, but hey, you never know and I don't really mind either way) because the older people take one look at how good I am with kids and go, "You'd be a wonderful mother! Of course you'll have kids someday!" or, "How could you not want a baby? Everyone wants a baby!" I've actually been told that I'm not a "real woman" if I don't want kids to the point of needing them. I've never laughed so hard in my life.

[Whispearl]

While procreating is necessary for the survival of a species and should be encouraged as an option, I don't think that it should be hailed as the highest possible form of success in all cases and for all people. If someone chooses to view their own life and success as having children and raising them to benefit the future of our society (or even further, our species), then that's their choice. Likewise, if someone believes that they can find success in their life in a manner that is more suitable to them, then that someone should also have the right to pursue that. There isn't a right or wrong way to find success if you're not hurting anyone in the process, so I don't think it's anyone's place to judge anyone! :)

[AceofFlutes]

I don't want to have kids. Some of the people close to me don't understand... Basically all of them are confused by my lack of desire for it and have/want kids themselves. Personally I have bigger goals in life and don't see childbirth as some venerating, life-changing process. Don't get me wrong, I like kids--I actually want to be a teacher--I just don't really want any of my own.

[Autumn Season]

I have heard phrases like "I didn't like children neither. But it all changes once you have children of your own". My problem with this: Just because mother instincts MIGHT develop AFTER the birth, that doesn't mean that the potential mother wants to have children BEFORE the birth and if said person doesn't want to have children then they certainly should not be convinced or pressured into it.

[Desmister]

My family (Especially my mother) can't believe the fact that I never want children. If I didn't know any better I'd say that choosing to stay childfree was a crime. That's how they act whenever I say I don't want children. I always hear the "You'd make a great mother", "Being a parent is one of the most rewarding experiences you can have", "Who's going to take care of you when you're old?", and "You'll want them when you're older" lines. Apparently they think if they say these things enough then I'll just magically change my mind about children. No, it doesn't work like that. My least favorite one is the one about having children so I'll have someone to take care of me when I'm old. That is so freaking selfish and I can't stand the thought of people doing that. If that's your only reason for having children then that's just twisted and wrong.

I'm perfectly content with never having them. If I ever somehow by some miracle decided that I want to become a parent then I'll adopt. I extremely highly, highly doubt that's ever gonna happen though.

[nerdperson777]

My family (Especially my mother) can't believe the fact that I never want children. If I didn't know any better I'd say that choosing to stay childfree was a crime. That's how they act whenever I say I don't want children. I always hear the "You'd make a great mother", "Being a parent is one of the most rewarding experiences you can have", "Who's going to take care of you when you're old?", and "You'll want them when you're older" lines. Apparently they think if they say these things enough then I'll just magically change my mind about children. No, it doesn't work like that. My least favorite one is the one about having children so I'll have someone to take care of me when I'm old. That is so freaking selfish and I can't stand the thought of people doing that. If that's your only reason for having children then that's just twisted and wrong.

I'm perfectly content with never having them. If I ever somehow by some miracle decided that I want to become a parent then I'll adopt. I extremely highly, highly doubt that's ever gonna happen though.

Actually, I think my parents see it that way, having someone to care for them when they're old. I don't actually feel for them emotionally, at all. One day I said I was going to my friend's place because she has depression. My mom asked if she was in a life-threatening situation, would I help her? I said depends. It's possibly a lie. I'm not sure yet.

[Lennie]

One of my uncles is obsessed with children. He keeps saying things like "You and your sister will have a baby by 25, I guarantee it". It's really annoying, can't he imagine that I would want to live a life completely different to his? The amount of people under the impression that everyone want the same thing out of life is ridiculous.

[El-not-so-ace]

i really really want children and being asexual kinda ruins my chances

You could always adopt or get artificial insemination. :o

[inactive12345]

I'm not interested in having kids either, but if I change my mind I'll adopt. Pregnancy and childbirth is icky.

I haven't gotten much pressure from relatives about it, but then again my aunt never married or had kids, my cousin is married with no kids, and almost everyone else in my family began reproducing later than the average, so I'm probably not that unusual. Ironically, it's a handful of my peers that I'm getting the "you'll change your mind" speech from.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

To some people kids may be the pinnacle of their lives. For me personally it's smoking an Evo on the drag strip at Santa Pod in my badass Impreza ;)

[Crealityisabeast]

I go back and forth. But I'm not putting my hopes too high on settling down in a romantic relationship, so i'm hoping for a super good friend that wants kids. (or as my brother said, i'll 'rupert everett a baby' after the movie he was in with madonna) I'd totally have to do artificial insemination for that one though, no sex even for the purpose of having kids for me.

[CreativeUsername]

It definitely frustrates me that when we're teaching children that they will have infinite choices in their lives we fail to teach them, girls especially, that they also have the choice to be child-free. A lot of my friends have spent years trying to defend their choice to not have children. People will often think their lying, as though there very happy and fulfilling lives are somehow a facade to hide the fact that they can't have children rather than that they don't want children. And of course, most of the negative nasty commentary falls on the women because girls are taught that they are supposed to grow up to want kids. Ugh.

i really really want children and being asexual kinda ruins my chances

Not necessarily. There's adoption, though that's not for everyone. There is also the good ol' turkey baster, aka artificial insem. I've seen there are a lot of asexuals who really want kids, so pairing up with one to co-parent is another option.

It's extremely possible to have kids without the sex!

[Batman's Ace]

I remember talking to someone whose sibling and sibling-in-law were very successful financially, but had decided between them not to have children. This person was absolutely convinced that neither of them is truly successful, and both must feel unfulfilled, because of the lack of children, and they had only managed to convince themselves that they're happy. They couldn't possibly be really happy without children! KIDS IS THE MEANING OF LIFE!

I didn't dare tell them I don't like babies. ("How can you not? They're wonderful! You'll love them once you have five or six of your own!")

[BR2925 (Sunfish)]

Children one of the biggest things society forces onto us. Much like sex, relationships and more, it's just that thing most people do so much that when some don't want to do it, most people can't get it. They're like a malfunctioning robot. DOES NOT COMPUTE. DOES NOT COMPUTE. SELF DESTRUCT SEQUENCE ACTIVATED. SELF DESTRUCT SEQUENCE ACTIVATED!!!!! *kaboom*

[Ph03n1xF1r3]

I am firmly in the "No Kid" zone. The worst thing I have heard is that I am selfish for not having kids if I am able to. I feel that I am selfish enough to realize I don't want kids. My mom has said she had kids so she wouldn't be alone when she was old, and I don't want to be like that. And after all that, kids are just nasty, smelly and annoying. So the answer is a big fat NO from me.

[regithier]

The problem also lies in "When are you having MORE children?" like it's some god damn right of passage to suffer through an infant AND a toddler. I have a 19 month old and she's more than enough. I am 500% happy with her and her alone. I don't have the mental, emotional, or financial ability to want or have more than 1 child. I like that I get to cuddle with her and not worry about if I'm showing enough love to someone else. That I can spend all my attention and expendable income on her and not worry someone else isn't getting enough.

Everyone and their dog is asking when we'll have another and I simply say "we're not. This is it. Enjoy it." and I get the same thing as women who don't want babies. "You'll change your mind. Give it time, you'll be yearning for more!" nope. Never. I hated being pregnant, I hated child birth, I hated the recovery time, I hated the sleepless nights, the pain, everything. It's the worst. 0/10 would not do again.

I did luck out though and my sister had a baby about 7 weeks later :3 so basically siblings!

[Autumn Season]

I remember talking to someone whose sibling and sibling-in-law were very successful financially, but had decided between them not to have children. This person was absolutely convinced that neither of them is truly successful, and both must feel unfulfilled, because of the lack of children, and they had only managed to convince themselves that they're happy. They couldn't possibly be really happy without children.

This reminds me of a Ted Talk about happiness which I recently listened to.

According to a study people who lost their ability to walk (or something of the like) and people who won the lottery, felt an equal amount of happiness after a year had passed.

The explanation was that our brain makes us believe that whatever situation we end up in is, in the end effect, the best that could have happened to us. Some might say: Of course the person who is not able to walk anymore cannot be as happy as somebody who won a lot of money. They must be faking it! But indeed, both are feeling the same amount if happiness. Our happiness does not depend on how lucky we are.

What it does depend on, is choice. If we understand that we cannot change the situation we're in, we adapt to it and become happy. (Our hormones do the job.) Somebody who receives a picture as a gift, is glad. Somebody who receives the same picture and gets told that they can exchange it for another picture whenever they want to, actually likes their picture less. These, again, are the results of a study. (See how subjective our feelings are?)

Now, I'm not saying that whatever happens, always happens for the best (Even though that's my favorite Russian proverb), and that we shouldn't even try to improve our lives. I think that for example an extrovert should strive for a social life and that being social makes them happier than being unsocial, even if they can get used to an unsocial lifestyle. Still many situations cannot be simply called "good" or "bad" and we, in collaboration with our hormones, can make the best out of practically every situation.

I also believe that some people can only be very happy with and others only without children. But there are many who could be happy either way and no matter whether they end up having children or not, they will think that they would have been less happy in a reversed situation. Actually, if you follow this happiness theory, the people with children are even more likely to be happy than those without. After all they don't have the choice anymore to suddenly stop being a parent. And the less of a choice we have the happier we are. And of course, people compare everyone to themselves, it is hard for them to imagine that whatever is best for themselves will not be the best for others as well.

[JessieD]

I'm from a small town where I think this is even more common than other places, and it really frustrates me. My brother is 18 and has a 17 year old girlfriend, and all she talks about is getting married and having kids. I want to stop her and say, "You know there's more to life, right?" Their high school is full of pregnant teenagers because it's the norm there to have kids before you're 18. It reminds of that movie, "Mona Lisa," because it's like women aren't supposed to do anything else with their lives besides marry and have children.

I can understand people actually wanting kids, but I disagree with the fact that our society seems to tell women that we're nothing more than incubators.

[Batman's Ace]

The problem also lies in "When are you having MORE children?" like it's some god damn right of passage to suffer through an infant AND a toddler. I have a 19 month old and she's more than enough. I am 500% happy with her and her alone. I don't have the mental, emotional, or financial ability to want or have more than 1 child. I like that I get to cuddle with her and not worry about if I'm showing enough love to someone else. That I can spend all my attention and expendable income on her and not worry someone else isn't getting enough.

Everyone and their dog is asking when we'll have another and I simply say "we're not. This is it. Enjoy it." and I get the same thing as women who don't want babies. "You'll change your mind. Give it time, you'll be yearning for more!" nope. Never. I hated being pregnant, I hated child birth, I hated the recovery time, I hated the sleepless nights, the pain, everything. It's the worst. 0/10 would not do again.

I did luck out though and my sister had a baby about 7 weeks later :3 so basically siblings!

Good for you for knowing your own limits and sticking to them. I know how frazzled those people with six kids look, and I've read the advice columns written to help parents of two find time to enjoy each other without neglecting the kids. Parenting several sounds very stressful. If you're happy with one kid, great! And cousins are wonderful (as friends, playmates, supplementary siblings, etc.), especially if they get to see each other a lot.

[Telomerase]

I've come to utterly despise the way American society treats children. They are treated like fragile glass and showered with worship, right up until the point they come of legal age. Then they're kicked out the door into a world where no one gives a s**t about them anymore.

I have the same issues with my mental and emotional health as I did when I was a kid, only now I'm left to deal with them myself, in the form of pills (which I have to pay for) and sometimes therapy (which I also have to pay for, and that gets kind of pricey). Problems coping? Shut up and get back to work because you'll go homeless if you don't, and nobody will care. As a single income earner with no spouse for support, it's a bumpy ride to say the least.

I really don't hate children, don't get me wrong. They have the same basic rights as any adult, and they do need guidance and nurturing as they develop. I just think many of them enjoy a completely unrealistic life right up to adulthood, when they are promptly thrown into shark tank. Some swim; some flounder. Myself, I guess I kind of tread water. Not homeless yet. :P

I feel sorry for kids. I see them laughing and carefree, and I have to look away because the time is running out before they're disillusioned about reality like everyone else. I can't imagine putting my own flesh and blood through that.

Being a "surprise" myself doesn't help the matter either. What, I wasn't even supposed to be part of this mess in the first place? LOL sadness.

And now back to your less depressing morning thread. :lol:

[New Strawberry 8]

I have always felt like my only true aspiration is to have a child, even when I was just a tiny little girl playing with dolls. I still feel that way today, but I accept the fact that I should go to college and get a job as well.

[TruBluMOM]

I'm coming to realize that no matter what the topic, I'm always the odd man out! I "fail" in terms of being a traditional woman, a traditional corporate manager. I'm married, but to a gay man, so no "traditional wife" award either, so I ventured into the world of "mixed orientation marriages", but due to my asexuality, I totally don't fit in there either...which brought me to explore more the world of asexuality, but that fact that I'm married with children, leaves me on the outside here too I fear.

Anyway, I have 2 comments:

1. I have been raised and live in largely liberal and progressive areas of the country (originally upstate New York, and now the Midwest - Twin Cities, MN) I am 48 years old, and one satisfaction I have is that I feel that at least in the areas I have experienced life, that people have progressed beyond this "woman's role" stereotype. I take comfort that my "agendered" existence has been largely drama free precisely because people, aside from my own family : -) have never pressured me (and assume then by extension that that in large part goes to others as well) to fill a certain role as a woman. I did not have my first child until I was 34, and I think most assumed I never would, and that was fine, I felt no judgment (again except for from my own family).

2. I don't really see the asexuality and child rearing to be mutually inclusive or mutually exclusive topics. Yes, I know where babies come from, but you don't have to like, or even have sex to have a baby/child, and I would be saddened to have someone opt out of having children simply because they didn't like sex or pregnancy/child birth. Kid's are not for everyone, and no one should be / feel pressured to have kids for the wrong reasons, But on the flip side, no one should feel obligated to opt out of having kids for the wrong reasons either. I doubt you will find many/any asexual parents who regret having kids for reasons of orientation / attraction / sexuality / biology.