Touch-Starvation, Emotional Intimacy, and the Friend Zone

[JAKQ7111]

What do you think the connection is between these three things? I see lots of people griping about the Friend Zone, both people who claim to be there, and people complaining about people who claim to be there, and honestly, I either see both sides, or I see no sides and am super confused.

What I hear when I hear people complaining about the Friend Zone is a very messy combination of unrequited love, sexual/romantic frustration (yes, romantic frustration is real, and I hate it), and a whole heaping portion of miscommunication. I've talked about the epic miscommunication/misnomer that I believe "Friend Zone" to be in another thread, so I won't discuss it here unless someone asks, but I will discuss the others.

It's fairly common knowledge just how painful unrequited love can be, especially for people who feel romantic attraction very strongly, but once we call it by another name and gender it, it becomes this awful thing in a whole other way. Plus, I know I get serious touch-starvation and romantic frustration as an ace, but throw sexual attraction and frustration into the mix, and it just sounds like a whole new layer of pain. Now, it's not the Person B's fault that they don't like Person A, but A's pain is sure as heck not A's fault, either, because being unable to control who we do and do not develop feelings for cuts both ways. Far too often in discussions of the Friend Zone do I see Person A being blamed for their feelings of pain and frustration, on top of their pre-existing feelings for Person B, in an attempt to absolve Person B of any blame themselves. As I said, it's one thing for B to admit that it isn't their fault that they don't like A the way A likes them, but that doesn't mean A did anything wrong by having/admitting those feelings in the first place, does it?

The other thing that makes me confused about the Friend Zone issue is what appears to me to be a lack of emotional intimacy in these so-called "friendships". This also ties into the giant misnomer that is "Friend Zone" in this case, because if Person A gets rejected romantically by Person B, and they remain close friends, and I do mean close, as in friends who really care for each other, and have very emotionally intimate relationships despite being platonic, then there usually isn't an issue, now is there? The problems I've seen/felt tend to arise when there is a promise of friendship that gets broken by either party. Now, if Person A rejects Person B's offer of friendship out of spite, then that's their problem to solve, but if Person A accepts that offer, and then Person B goes back on that, or doesn't pull their weight in the friendship, then I see no reason why A shouldn't be upset. How would you feel if someone whom you really care about treats you like barely more than a stranger? I know very well how much that stings, and insulting someone going through that by calling them whiny or entitled does not help them get over it. To me, friendship means a lot, and I'm sick of seeing people taking advantage of their friends, or not treating their friends with the same level of respect and care as they are treated. Friendship is just as much a two-way street as romance, and that includes at least some level of emotional intimacy.

So, there you have it. Do you think I am completely off-base here, or do you think that these painful things should be addressed in discussions of the Friend Zone? I mean, these people must be hurting for a reason, right? Let me know what you think!

[Autumn Season]

The other thing that makes me confused about the Friend Zone issue is what appears to me to be a lack of emotional intimacy in these so-called "friendships". This also ties into the giant misnomer that is "Friend Zone" in this case, because if Person A gets rejected romantically by Person B, and they remain close friends, and I do mean close, as in friends who really care for each other, and have very emotionally intimate relationships despite being platonic, then there usually isn't an issue, now is there? The problems I've seen/felt tend to arise when there is a promise of friendship that gets broken by either party. Now, if Person A rejects Person B's offer of friendship out of spite, then that's their problem to solve, but if Person A accepts that offer, and then Person B goes back on that, or doesn't pull their weight in the friendship, then I see no reason why A shouldn't be upset. How would you feel if someone whom you really care about treats you like barely more than a stranger? I know very well how much that stings, and insulting someone going through that by calling them whiny or entitled does not help them get over it. To me, friendship means a lot, and I'm sick of seeing people taking advantage of their friends, or not treating their friends with the same level of respect and care as they are treated. Friendship is just as much a two-way street as romance, and that includes at least some level of emotional intimacy.

It definitely sucks to crave intimacy in friendship and not get enough. But I don't think it's anyone'e fault here neither. Every two people have a different dynamic in their relationship. Sometimes one of the friends wants more than the other can give. It's not like the other is holding back on purpose, it's just that they have boundaries which it is unhealthy to ignore. Just as it is unhealthy for the first friend to not have their needs met. And I believe that just like romantic relationships, friendships too are complicated and friends can be incompatible.

So, there you have it. Do you think I am completely off-base here, or do you think that these painful things should be addressed in discussions of the Friend Zone? I mean, these people must be hurting for a reason, right? Let me know what you think!

Yes, pain is real and nobody should be blamed for feeling it. I don't think complaining about the "friend zone" helps though. Especially since, as you yourself have mentioned, the hurt is not caused by the friend zone but by the lack of intimacy in a friendship.

[Sutoriku]

To begin, I believe that in a healthy friendship/relationship, no one is to blame or is responsible for how anyone else feels. As long as mutual respect is maintained between party A and B, their friendship can continue and possibly grow into more. With this logic, the friendzone should not be something to be feared, or even should exist.


However think that the bad thing about how society perceives the 'friend zone' is that the people who are friend-zoned are encouraged to feel entitled to what they can't have - without being sexist and as a pure observation, I find this to be more common among men.

Once someone rejects them they fall back into this friendzone, and project their frustration onto the person who has rejected them - this turns into blame and an enlarged sense of entitlement. Rather than face their own inadequacy, they simply believe that they deserve to be with person B and they were only rejected because of person's B's maliciousness/shallowness/any other excuse.

(To clarify - 99% a rejection isn't about inadequacy, its simply because person B does not return person's A's feelings. However as with everything when emotions are involved, it becomes messy and the response is often - "why did she reject me" and a reason must be found for this - if not in themselves (inadequecy) then with person B.)

However the person who rejected this friendzone-ee may have no idea what is going on - one minute everything (to them) may seem fine, the next minute they are suddenly faced with an explosion of emotion from someone they have already rejected that had been simmering under the surface.

Just in my personal experience, I let people gently but firmly know where they stand with me. I don't know if the rejection embarrasses them or what but these people once they believe they have fallen into the friendzone will physically hurt me, sexually harass me, verbally abuse me and generally feel entitled to my existence. This was so strong that it got to a point where I felt I should belong to them (I know, wtf??). I spent many years struggling with this :(

I do not know how people can claim to do this out of affection or love - whatever they might have once felt for me was twisted by anger and jealousy.

[nerdperson777]

I do think that people should give more importance to the friend zone, but I will be biased since I cannot understand romantic and sexual feelings. It has to do with how people see sexual and romantic relationships as more important than friendships. If that was a universal case, I may never have real friends. I'm not sure if it's selfish for me to think that I don't care if my friend has a partner, just treat me with respect. I cannot do anything with your love even if you gave it to me. I would probably want some cuddles from a good friend, but unless they see it the same way I do, I cannot ask that from them, especially if they have another person in their lives. I wish that more people can see the importance of the friend zone. It's not a very painful place to be, if you are content with where you are in the friendship.

[El-not-so-ace]

I think friend zones hurt people the most if it keeps on happening to them time after time, after time. I'm pretty sure if it happens once, the person will feel disappointed and all, but protecting one's ego might work better by trying to pin the blame somewhere. One of my friends was friend zoned by a guy ready to give up on relationships for good but in the end she got out of it and they're fiance'd.

Luckily for me, I haven't been friendzoned because I didn't get close enough to someone before seeing their interest. I don't think I'd be able to remain friends with someone after, but then again, it would have been different if we were close friends before I developed feelings. :P

[borealmist]

However think that the bad thing about how society perceives the 'friend zone' is that the people who are friend-zoned are encouraged to feel entitled to what they can't have - without being sexist and as a pure observation, I find this to be more common among men.

Once someone rejects them they fall back into this friendzone, and project their frustration onto the person who has rejected them - this turns into blame and an enlarged sense of entitlement. Rather than face their own inadequacy, they simply believe that they deserve to be with person B and they were only rejected because of person's B's maliciousness/shallowness/any other excuse.

Well, coming from the other side I can say it's not that fun for men who aren't thrilled with the traditional mating game either.

Before I figured out my own asexual aspects, one of the things I found most difficult to deal with was how careful I had to be to keep a detached distance to women I suspected might be interested, as women don't always 'face their own inadequacy' in a particularly graceful fashion either. Anything from getting slapped for saying 'eeh, no thanks' to a casual pick-up attempt to a friend suddenly going on a serial binge-drinking sleep-around suspiciously starting an hour after a fairly roundabout but clear rejection.

(To clarify - 99% a rejection isn't about inadequacy, its simply because person B does not return person's A's feelings. However as with everything when emotions are involved, it becomes messy and the response is often - "why did she reject me" and a reason must be found for this - if not in themselves (inadequecy) then with person B.)

That's absolutely true. But for some reason there's an expectation that men should always be interested. Unless we can present a truly great excuse, there's likely to be significant emotional fallout. So... keep... that... cold... distance...

I do have a number of close (emotionally/physically intimate but non-sexual) friendships with people who could technically have been romantic partners, but, for what it's worth, the common thread with those seems to be a clear understanding of exactly why we're mutually sexually incompatible.

That said, I really dislike the term 'friend zone', as I feel it's barely ever used for any constructive or nuanced discussion.

[Autumn Season]

as women don't always 'face their own inadequacy' in a particularly graceful fashion either. Anything from getting slapped for saying 'eeh, no thanks'

Wait, that actually happens in real life? I always thought this was some kind of joke used in fiction to show how emotional or irrational somebody is. ... Just as I thought people were joking when they said they were sexually frustrated. ^^° But that's another topic.

That's absolutely true. But for some reason there's an expectation that men should always be interested. Unless we can present a truly great excuse, there's likely to be significant emotional fallout. So... keep... that... cold... distance...

That must suck. Women are also expected to accept confessions or to stay in a relationship. But that's more of a past-generation-thing. One of the reasons I'm not asking anyone twice as old as me for advice on love anymore. At least not in my offline social circle. Reminds me of all those times somebody told me "You should try being with them before rejecting them" and "They are a nice person and you enjoy their company, why don't you want to take things further". Somehow "I just don't feel like it" never seems to count. :( Oh... and the times when my sister complained about creeps leering at her and she received the advice to feel flattered and that she shouldn't be so cold and disinterested. Wtf.

[Anime Pancake]

I don't think the term friend zone should even exist.

If someone tells someone they have feelings for them, either the person feels the same way or they don't. It's that simple.

If they want to be friends, then they can be friends. If they don't want to be friends, that's their choice. It doesn't have to be anything more complicated than that.

[Guest]

I don't understand why people get upset that people get upset about being friend zoned. It can be very sad and painful, and I think it's pretty fucked up to yell at them about it and say "YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED." What does entitlement have anything to do with it??

I don't see people bitching at those who were broken up with for feeling sad... people aren't like "YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED", but what's the difference, exactly? Being rejected sucks regardless of when it happens. Being hurt doesn't grant someone the right to call the other person a bitch or a whore, but it most certainly grants someone the right to feel hurt.

And yeah... women are just as miserable about gracefully accepting rejection as guys are. Very much so.

[Autumn Season]

I don't see people bitching at those who were broken up with for feeling sad... people aren't like "YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED", but what's the difference, exactly? Being rejected sucks regardless of when it happens.

It definitely does. I think the OP made this topic with the same thought in mind. That instead of blaming the rejected one, people should feel sorry for them and/or support them emotionally. Except of course...

Being hurt doesn't grant someone the right to call the other person a bitch or a whore, but it most certainly grants someone the right to feel hurt.

... if the rejected one blames the one who rejected them or, even worse, treats them disrespectfully afterwards. This makes it look as if they think the other had no right to reject them.

[Guest]

Totally agreed.

[borealmist]

as women don't always 'face their own inadequacy' in a particularly graceful fashion either. Anything from getting slapped for saying 'eeh, no thanks'

Wait, that actually happens in real life? I always thought this was some kind of joke used in fiction to show how emotional or irrational somebody is. ... Just as I thought people were joking when they said they were sexually frustrated. ^^° But that's another topic.

Well, it happened once, and frankly, I deserved it. Not because of the rejection, but because I a) didn't realize that some places reputation for being a meat market actually meant that people would behave as if it were a meat market and assume that apparently single people were available and highly aware of the context and b) because I was young and stupid and projected my own feelings about myself on to her and assumed that she was screwing with me, which may have had me conveying a rather impolite facial expression to go with the rejection. Emotional, maybe, but not really irrational, she was playing the social game according to the accepted rules and I veered completely off script.

So it taught me a valuable lesson about leaving such places before people got drunk and to quit projecting on people and take some things at face value.