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Enlighten me on this


Lord Jade Cross

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Lord Jade Cross

While Im currently dealing with the recent situation of a girl at work chasing me, Im curious to know, especially since she has already done it as well, why do women employ the use of sex appeal in order to get attention yet many times they complain if the men sexually look at them, even when the attention comes from their partners?

Im curious because all the woman that have ever been interested in me have resorted to try to use sex appeal to get my attention.

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Perhaps because the sexualization isn't on their terms/under their control so it makes them feel insecure. And they feel empowerd when it is under their control.

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Are you sure that women who exploit sex appeal to get attention and women who dislike objectification are the same women?

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Take a look at media these days, and ask yourself the same question. A lot of people (not just women), are taught to play up certain aspects of themselves to be more "attractive" and desirable. Plus, just because all the women in the past who have chased you all used sex appeal, doesn't include the other people you might not have considered or noticed that used less overt methods to get your attention. ;)

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I agree about them possibly being different types of women, but I'd also say there's a distinction between playing up your looks or aesthetics versus playing up "sex appeal". You can get a specific kind of attention, in general, with each. So playing up your best qualities, look-wise, doesn't always mean you're trying to or want sexual attention.

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Lord Jade Cross

Are you sure that women who exploit sex appeal to get attention and women who dislike objectification are the same women?

Ive definately seen women who exploit it and later, especially if they get more than they bargained for, complain about the attention.

Take a look at media these days, and ask yourself the same question. A lot of people (not just women), are taught to play up certain aspects of themselves to be more "attractive" and desirable. Plus, just because all the women in the past who have chased you all used sex appeal, doesn't include the other people you might not have considered or noticed that used less overt methods to get your attention. ;)

I never considered any. Even the ones who did try to use appeal were ignored. Those actually were the first as I found them annoying.

Perhaps because the sexualization isn't on their terms/under their control so it makes them feel insecure. And they feel empowerd when it is under their control.

But if they use it to empower themselves and later dont like the result, why do it in the first place?

I agree about them possibly being different types of women, but I'd also say there's a distinction between playing up your looks or aesthetics versus playing up "sex appeal". You can get a specific kind of attention, in general, with each. So playing up your best qualities, look-wise, doesn't always mean you're trying to or want sexual attention.

Being overly outgoing sexually wise doest make it look like what their wanting is attention looks wise. Getting dolled up is one thing, making direct sexual remarks is another.

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Perhaps because the sexualization isn't on their terms/under their control so it makes them feel insecure. And they feel empowerd when it is under their control.

But if they use it to empower themselves and later dont like the result, why do it in the first place?

While I don't know the individuals in your specific experience, from an outsider's perspective, it seems like you're cherrypicking a bit here.

I guess I can imagine a person who is engaged in some kind of weird sexual attention entrapment fantasy where they try to attract sexual attention for the sole purpose of being offended by it. There are people who do a lot of bizarre stuff, and as convoluted and strange as the sexual attention entrapment plan sounds, at least it's not murder.

However, I personally have never met anyone who has acted this way. I have met people who find sexual attention flattering at some times but not at others. That doesn't strike me as too unusual. Alternately, they might want sexual attention from certain people and not others. That doesn't surprise me either.

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Lord Jade Cross

Perhaps because the sexualization isn't on their terms/under their control so it makes them feel insecure. And they feel empowerd when it is under their control.

But if they use it to empower themselves and later dont like the result, why do it in the first place?

While I don't know the individuals in your specific experience, from an outsider's perspective, it seems like you're cherrypicking a bit here.

I guess I can imagine a person who is engaged in some kind of weird sexual attention entrapment fantasy where they try to attract sexual attention for the sole purpose of being offended by it. There are people who do a lot of bizarre stuff, and as convoluted and strange as the sexual attention entrapment plan sounds, at least it's not murder.

However, I personally have never met anyone who has acted this way. I have met people who find sexual attention flattering at some times but not at others. That doesn't strike me as too unusual. Alternately, they might want sexual attention from certain people and not others. That doesn't surprise me either.

If theyre wanting to get attention from some and not others, wouldnt it be easier to get the person/people desired and then acting out. Seems safer that way.

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-_- The human subconscious isn't always logical and people don't always think things through either.

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Lord Jade Cross

-_- The human subconscious isn't always logical and people don't always think things through either.

true but wanting a certain type of attention seems like a concious act to me.
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Touchofinsight

Perhaps because the sexualization isn't on their terms/under their control so it makes them feel insecure. And they feel empowerd when it is under their control.

This, its a stupid game that many women use and get upset when the rules work against them.

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Ive definately seen women who exploit it and later, especially if they get more than they bargained for, complain about the attention.

No idea then. I've only met women who fall under one category, never both.

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Telecaster68

Maybe they're flirting for fun, and expect the man to read it as just that, and the guy misreads the situation and expects more. It's tricky for allosexuals to read, let alone asexuals. They like the confirmation a guy finds them attractive, but don't want more than that. And there are times when sexual attention is inappropriate - it's often fine to flirt in social situations, but really bad to do it in formal meetings, for example. Allosexuals enjoy playing with their sexuality sometimes, but other times, viewing them in a sexual way is demeaning to their professional abilities.

I say this as an allosexual male who still sometimes finds it confusing...

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So its just an ego stroke then?

This sounds like a confirmation-bias request.

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Autumn Season

Couldn't agree more. It depends on the situation. Same goes for romance. Flirting with and receiving the attention of a classmate is fun, while the boss flirting with you is downgrading.

About sexual behavior and sexualization: Those are two entirely different things. You might want to do a sexy dance once. That doesn't mean you want your photo taken and have it photoshopped onto a skinnily dressed dancer. Also, sexualization and being looked at in a sexual way are different things. Many don't mind receiving attention, as long as their body and image are not used in a way they didn't consent to.

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2005-02-15.gif

@Jade Cross: I think some people take issue because you're generalizing so much, but I agree that what you describe is more common than it has any right to be. It's basically one consequence of the whole sexual liberation/feminist movement.. Namely, the attitude that women should get all the sexual freedom they want, yet they should also receive the moral right of not being seen sexually when they don't want to be. The former is something that men had previously, and women now have. The latter is something that women had previously, and men still don't have. I guess to an asexual male like yourself, the hypocrisy of that is particularly obvious. Many men would also dearly like to be left alone and not be seen sexually, but that's simply not a problem up for discussion.

Another note.. The kind of women who pull this kind of thing, are usually the ones with very little self esteem. I agree with some of the MRA arguments there.. There are women out there who are simply not as confident and strong as they are "supposed" to be according to feminist theory, and yet are trying very hard to live according to that dogma. The end result is someone who acts in weak and selfish ways, using their feminine abilities and moral "high ground" to gain as much short term benefit as possible, while harming others and ruining their chances of being seen in a good light by anyone who catches on to their scheme. I've yet to see feminism's answer to that. "Give them more power and rights over men" certainly isn't solving the issue.

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Lord Jade Cross

How can I bring forth my doubts/questions if when I do it, people are going to take it in the way that it has happened so far?

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Telecaster68
It's basically one consequence of the whole sexual liberation/feminist movement..

Because nobody flirted pre-feminism?

women should get all the sexual freedom they want, yet they should also receive the moral right of not being seen sexually when they don't want to be

And why not? Someone enjoying their sexuality doesn't mean that's all they're ever allowed to do, or be seen as. It's nothing to do with feminism, it's about respecting everybody's right to be respected as a rounded, multifaceted person.

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OK... let me try to explain this.

There is being seen SEXUALLY - someone being attracted to you, finding you sexy, etc. Most women I know like this, it boosts their confidence. This is what they aim for when they TRY to be sexy/flirt and such.

Then there is being seen as a SEXUAL OBJECT - this is the thing most women I know complain about. Being made to feel like they are ONLY their sex appeal. Being made to feel rather..dirty honestly, because of how disrespectful it can become when people go too far. Leering, staring straight at your boobs without even bothering to try to look up at your face or anywhere else, barking at you as you walk away, shouting inappropriate remarks at you from across the street in front of all your neighbors, following you for 30 minutes even after you've said NO to their advances, etc etc. Even partners can cause this feeling, if they JUST spend time around the person to initiate sex. There are even songs about this problem (example: somewhere other than the night, which is about showing you love your wife sometime other than sex). Relationships can get into that pit where one partner feels like all their partner loves them for is sex, if appreciation in other ways is not shown. I've dated a guy that wanted to show me off as his sexy girl trophy, always have me wear skimpy outfits when out, because "I want people to be jealous cause a guy like me could get a girl like you" and it was kinda gross feeling. I didn't want to be shown off as his sexual conquest to all his friends. My current partner, because his libido is SO high, can sometimes make me have that gross sexual object feeling because some weeks everytime he sees me, it's SEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEX. Which gets frustrating if I just want to give him a kiss, or say hello.

The two are NOT the same. Now, some people do make themselves hypocrites by trying to get checked out then complaining about it if it's the wrong person. I've heard BOTH sexes do this though... "OMG that fatty totally checked me out, gross" from men, or "Ew, that ugly guy is looking at me" from women, etc when they are out on the "prowl" for potential dates. Yeah... don't make yourself stand out then complain cause someone you personally do not find attractive looked. But, the more common complaint and what feminists are against is the being treated like a sexual OBJECT rather than just a sexy PERSON.

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How can I bring forth my doubts/questions if when I do it, people are going to take it in the way that it has happened so far?

Here's how.

Ask a question or bring up an experience like this: "Hey, I don't understand why this person did X."Or, "X happened and I just don't get it." Or even, "This person did X and it really annoys me."

Don't do it like this: "Why are all X's so Y?" "How come all people of this kind act this way?"

I tend to find that groups of people are made up of individuals, and generalizations about those groups are almost always condescending and unhelpful. On the other hand, individuals are often unreasonable, and many people can commiserate with the experience of dealing with someone like that, if commiseration is what you're looking for.

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The simple answer is because people are hypocrites.

I've heard BOTH sexes do this though... "OMG that fatty totally checked me out, gross" from men, or "Ew, that ugly guy is looking at me" from women, etc when they are out on the "prowl" for potential dates. Yeah... don't make yourself stand out then complain cause someone you personally do not find attractive looked.


but omg i should be able to dress however i want though without getting some weirdo's attention omg victim blaming omg WARGLBARGL

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The simple answer is because people are hypocrites.

I've heard BOTH sexes do this though... "OMG that fatty totally checked me out, gross" from men, or "Ew, that ugly guy is looking at me" from women, etc when they are out on the "prowl" for potential dates. Yeah... don't make yourself stand out then complain cause someone you personally do not find attractive looked.

but omg i should be able to dress however i want though without getting some weirdo's attention omg victim blaming omg WARGLBARGL

I wasn't really just talking about dress. I was talking about getting dressed up, going to a place to meet singles, flirting, carrying on and making yourself stand out in every way... then the wrong person looks, so you complain. Just a tad hypocritical. No matter how you're dressed, people are gonna check you out if you're attractive anyway, so it's kinda part of life you have to live with. :P

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While Im currently dealing with the recent situation of a girl at work chasing me, Im curious to know, especially since she has already done it as well, why do women employ the use of sex appeal in order to get attention yet many times they complain if the men sexually look at them, even when the attention comes from their partners?

Im curious because all the woman that have ever been interested in me have resorted to try to use sex appeal to get my attention.

I know for me, if I am interested in a guy, and know that he is also interested in me but doesn't know how to express that, I give him signals and cues and things (through body language, what I talk about with him etc) to let him know I am interested in him and that it's okay for him to feel how he does about me, so that he becomes more comfortable with expressing interest in me etc. I want his attention, so put myself 'out there' in the hopes of getting it. And I like the result, a lot, as it's something I wanted in the first place, was actively seeking.

However, when guys make licking gestures at me with their tongues on the street, or comment on the size of my breasts or grab their dicks through their pants or whatever, when I literally gave them NO signal that I want that (like literally walked passed them because it's a public street and there is no where else to walk, didn't look at them or smile or anything) then that is obviously unwanted attention that they actually have no permission to give. They are forcing their attention on a woman who clearly doesn't want it, because they can. Like somehow they think the size of my boobs gives them permission to make sexual comments and gestures towards me, regardless of the fact that I clearly don't want it. Same goes for men in the office or friends or anything. If she clearly isn't interested, leave her the fuck alone lol.

So you see, it's not a double standard or anything on my part, seeking attention from certain men and loathing it from others. I am giving certain men permission to give me that kind of attention through my words and body language because I want that from them (and I only ever do that if I know the guy is also interested in me, but is too shy to yell at me ''I like your tits!'' or other such nonsense, I don't know, just really like the shy ones lol) .. Other men I give absolutely no signal to. Ignore them, don't look at them, turn away from them etc.. clearly I just want them to fuck off. I have associated with many men on AVEN, sexual as well as asexual, who will know for a fact that I haven't 'made moves' on them or been sexually suggestive when talking to them. I would very much hope I don't get a random shirtless pick in my pm box from any of those guys, as I clearly have not given them any signal that I am interested in seeing whats under their clothes lol. Make sense? some men I have actively flirted with, so clearly I am open to 'moving forward' with them. If I am not actively flirting, I am not interested.

Why do I like it from some guys and not others? Guys I am interested in I want to get closer to emotionally, intellectually and physically. A good way to do that is to ''break the ice'' by becoming more comfortable with each other physically... feeling that sort of ''physical attraction'' to each other, and being able to express it freely with each other, makes communicating about very personal things you'd never normally tell anyone, a lot easier (in my experience anyway) .. Hence why I enjoy that kind of attention from the men I am interested in, and giving it to them. It opens up a sort of doorway to deeper, more personal communication and interaction for me and them.

I would think a woman has every right to be sexual with someone she is interested in (as long as he is receptive of course) but complain about unwanted attention. The guys giving the unwanted attention are the ones who are in the wrong here, why not wait until a woman gives them a clear signal she is okay with it? and if not, leave her alone.

Of course, a woman should always stop if a guy is clearly not interested or comfortable with her attention also. Always. Otherwise it's harassment. And the same goes for women regarding street harassment too. A woman should never grab her tits and yell ''hey baby, want some?'' at a random guy walking on the street who has shown no interest in her, as it could freak him out or make him deeply uncomfortable or whatever. Like for me, there was one guy I was REALLY interested in from AVEN (he's gorgeous lol) who I was spending a lot of time with on Skype etc as friends, but I could tell 100% that he had no interest in me in ''that way'' so never once made a sexual comment or overly suggestive joke or anything in his presence, never sent him selfies that may have been a little less than innocent lol, never. Would never disrespect his (or anyone's) boundaries in that way. I only ever ''make moves'' with guys I can tell 100% are interested in me, and would be receptive to the attention. And if I happened to fuck up and mistake their feelings, or their feelings changed or whatever, I would back off instantly and take it back to a non-flirtatious level of communication.

(Just as a side-note, there have only been two I have actively sought this kind of attention from in the last 4 years, and both of those were online, and asexual. Online is the same as meat life, for me, when it comes to this. Like you make moves etc through text, through voice, and on vid call.. subtle hints in your body language on vid and things.. same as you would to a guy in meat life.)

So did that help clear up some of the confusion over this?

EDIT: and yes, I understand this whole post was extremely hetero-normative. I stuck with hetero-normative instead of keeping it neutral as the OP was specifically asking about womens sexual behavior and receptiveness in relation to men.

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Also, to the extent that women aren't sex dolls, we have the right to sometimes want attention and sometimes not.

But seriously, if you want to see some hypocritical behavior out of men, watch how they react to getting hit on by a fat girl. It's constantly "why don't girls every hit on me, why aren't girls open about their interests" blah blah blah... but like all people, those dudes mean "why doesn't the girl I like hit on me". Then an unattractive girl sidles up and the dude is all like "ugh gross slut she's like soooo desperate".

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Also, to the extent that women aren't sex dolls, we have the right to sometimes want attention and sometimes not.

But seriously, if you want to see some hypocritical behavior out of men, watch how they react to getting hit on by a fat girl. It's constantly "why don't girls every hit on me, why aren't girls open about their interests" blah blah blah... but like all people, those dudes mean "who doesn't the girl I like hit on me". Then an unattractive girl sidles up and the dude is all like "ugh gross slut she's like soooo desperate".

This is understandable, but girls aren't exactly encouraged to hit up on men. Never once I heard of a woman hitting up on a man.
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Also, to the extent that women aren't sex dolls, we have the right to sometimes want attention and sometimes not.

But seriously, if you want to see some hypocritical behavior out of men, watch how they react to getting hit on by a fat girl. It's constantly "why don't girls every hit on me, why aren't girls open about their interests" blah blah blah... but like all people, those dudes mean "who doesn't the girl I like hit on me". Then an unattractive girl sidles up and the dude is all like "ugh gross slut she's like soooo desperate".

This is understandable, but girls aren't exactly encouraged to hit up on men. Never once I heard of a woman hitting up on a man.

Exactly my point. Men are always bitching about it, they get all dolled up and go out and hope a girl hits on them, and when one finally does, it's "slut" unless he finds her attractive.

In other words: both sexes are hypocrites.

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Also, to the extent that women aren't sex dolls, we have the right to sometimes want attention and sometimes not.

But seriously, if you want to see some hypocritical behavior out of men, watch how they react to getting hit on by a fat girl. It's constantly "why don't girls every hit on me, why aren't girls open about their interests" blah blah blah... but like all people, those dudes mean "who doesn't the girl I like hit on me". Then an unattractive girl sidles up and the dude is all like "ugh gross slut she's like soooo desperate".

This is understandable, but girls aren't exactly encouraged to hit up on men. Never once I heard of a woman hitting up on a man.

Totally agree with Skulls.

And Rep, you may not have heard of it, but it happens. If I am interested, and can tell the guy is interested but too shy to say, he'll definitely be getting some dodgy messages from me lol. There are a couple of men here who can attest to that fact :p

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