A straight man who identifies with lesbian women

[Monadnock]

Whoops, I seem to stuck my hand into a hornet's nest here. My intention was not to reinforce gender stereotypes, and I apologize to those who took my original post that way.

[Heart]

Whoops, I seem to stuck my hand into a hornet's nest here. My intention was not to reinforce gender stereotypes, and I apologize to those who took my original post that way.

Sometimes these things happen. Sorry that it got a bit carried away :redface:

[Emery.]

He stated that he's a man. Having a problem with gender roles is not the same as being trans. We're dwelling on the fact that he's a man because men aren't lesbians.

It was a rhetorical question.

Having a problem with gender roles is entirely separate and distinct from gender identity - we're all clear on that. But we're clear on something, yet dwell on it, again.

He also stated that he feels female, in addition to identifying as a man, which, by the definition of gender identity, makes his gender identity both female and male. However much nonsense it may seem to you, it is how gender identity is defined - as a subjective experience of being a gender aka feeling like a gender. Up to you how you see him, but he has the right to any identity, even if it doesn't make any sense in anyone else's eyes.

[Emery.]

It would make him a gynephillic DMAB androgyne, to be precise.

If he's partly a woman who's exclusively into women, it makes him partly a lesbian. I don't mean anything personal nor do I want to diminish struggles cis lesbians face. I just aim to be logical and consistent in terms of a given model of what gender is. It is exactly like math. You define and assume. You deduct. I'm operating within this sort of a system.

I guess you just don't agree that OP is a woman? You're using a different model, then. That's alright. So - what is your model? How do you define gender and lesbian? My definition is "lesbian is a woman attracted to other women", and I mentioned the definition of gender I use in the previous post.

[allrightalready]

one's sexual orientation can still be queer if they are cis (or appear such) and are attracted to the opposite of their birth sex.

But how?

I understand cishet relationships that are queer, because one or both people involved are trans/non-binary and/or bi/pan/ace, but a straight cis person being queer? To quote Wikipedia:

Queer is an umbrella term for sexual and gender minorities that are not heterosexual or cisgender.

Hence queer cis-het is a self-contradiction.

Queer is an umbrella term and/or reclaimed slur for anyone who is LGBTQIA+. That includes cisgender, heterosexual, heteroromantic, intersex people

if cis heteros can be queer then queer is "normal" and there is no point to the label

Cishet people can be queer ONLY if they are intersex. Which, you know, is an identity that isn't considered "normal".

intersex is actually outside of the cis/trans binary. it is why there is so much campaigning for a non male/female option (X, other, none or something like that) so to me cishet cannot be queer

[JAKQ7111]

I must say here that I agree with what Emery and Chardog are saying: Appearances can be deceiving, especially when it comes to the intricacies of gender and identity. Yes, feminine straight men exist (though nobody ever seems to recognize that...just because a guy is femme doesn't mean he likes guys!*rantforanotherdayperhaps), but what the OP here seems to be describing is something that goes deeper than simple bucking of gender roles. Some people do have much stronger social dyphoria than physical dysphoria when it comes to their gender identity being opposed to their assigned gender- heck, I am one of them, but that doesn't make me a cis man, does it? Also, like Chardog said, not every trans/non-binary person wants to do a physical transition, for various reasons. That does not make them more cis than any of us, and that logic is often used to invalidate non-binary people even in trans spaces, so forgive me if I am a bit wary of this line of thought. Heck, one of my acquaintances is a trans woman who goes by his legal name, "he" pronouns, and remains bearded, because he says that "if [he is] to look like a man, [he] might as well be as attractive a man as possible". This does not make him a straight man, as he is a MAAB lesbian with excess testosterone. If the OP says that his gender is both male and female, the fact that he is MAAB does not detract from this other key component to his identity and how he lives his life. I agree that "gynephilic" is perhaps a more accurate term, but if "male lesbian" describes him well enough, that is not my place to question.

Also, PS: Eddie Izzard, an open cross-dresser/transvestite who likes women, identifies his gender as "male tomboy" or "male lesbian" as well.

[SiTargaryen]

Also, PS: Eddie Izzard, an open cross-dresser/transvestite who likes women, identifies his gender as "male tomboy" or "male lesbian" as well.

I've used both those terms to describe myself too. I'm comfortable in my male body and I'm only attracted to women. But I've never had the desire to have sex with them "as a man would" so to speak. Even when I've been sexually active in the past, I always preferred to pleasure my female partners in other ways.

That's why I think if I was ever to get in a relationship again, a bisexual woman would be ideal.

[dash]

Also, PS: Eddie Izzard, an open cross-dresser/transvestite who likes women, identifies his gender as "male tomboy" or "male lesbian" as well.

I've used both those terms to describe myself too. I'm comfortable in my male body and I'm only attracted to women. But I've never had the desire to have sex with them "as a man would" so to speak. Even when I've been sexually active in the past, I always preferred to pleasure my female partners in other ways.

That's why I think if I was ever to get in a relationship again, a bisexual woman would be ideal.

I am really confused. What does "as a man would" mean? Men can pleasure their partners any way at all, and it doesn't mean they are more or less men. (Do you perhaps mean "as a man would" as a euphemism for PiV sex?)

[SiTargaryen]

^ Yes that. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm rubbish when it comes to talking about sex!

[Guest]

I read in Cosmo that there can be something as difference between psychical gender and sexual gender, so there can be cis women who identify sexually as gays. II am kinda aroused by gay sex ( lesbian one is neutral to me) and sometimes it happens that I use to imagine myself as a gay men having sex with other one.

[allrightalready]

one's sexual orientation can still be queer if they are cis (or appear such) and are attracted to the opposite of their birth sex.

But how?

I understand cishet relationships that are queer, because one or both people involved are trans/non-binary and/or bi/pan/ace, but a straight cis person being queer? To quote Wikipedia:

Queer is an umbrella term for sexual and gender minorities that are not heterosexual or cisgender.

Hence queer cis-het is a self-contradiction.

Queer is an umbrella term and/or reclaimed slur for anyone who is LGBTQIA+. That includes cisgender, heterosexual, heteroromantic, intersex people

if cis heteros can be queer then queer is "normal" and there is no point to the label

Cishet people can be queer ONLY if they are intersex. Which, you know, is an identity that isn't considered "normal".

intersex is actually outside of the cis/trans binary. it is why there is so much campaigning for a non male/female option (X, other, none or something like that) so to me cishet cannot be queer

So...what's the I doing in the acronym, then?

And I never said intersex was IN the cis/trans binary. What I do believe is that intersex people can identify as queer, on the basis of being intersex, if they want to. And I think that's a debate best left up to the intersex community, especially those who are gay, bi, trans, ace, aro, etc. And since I'm not intersex as far as I know (I've never been karyotyped, and I suspect I might have PCOS, which some intersex people consider an intersex condition), it's a debate that I'm better off staying out of.

i said cishet cannot be queer, intersex is a marginalized minority so it is queer, cishet cannot be queer because it is the "normal" and whatever is the norm is not marginalized, it seems blatantly obvious to me

[Heart]

This thread has been locked, since it is old. If anyone feels like carrying on the conversation, please feel free to start a new thread.

Heart

Gender Discussion Moderator