What do you think of this article on asexual mix relationships?

[Kuromi Akumura]

https://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/tag/mixed-relationships/

I quite like it, I atleast feel like i can relate to it. I haven't seen much if any allo's who have completely given up sexual activity with someone for an asexual partner. I seen allo's who don't do as much or do foreplay things instead, or seek it from someone else but i want to know someone who is also in my position.

what are your thoughts and opinions on this link???

[New Strawberry 8]

Ok, here is my opinion, and I am genuinely sorry if it offends anyone.

I have spoken to several people who feel that even if an asexual person says YES to sex, it's rape if they don't want it. I am %100 AGAINST this belief. "Rape" implies that the person forces someone into it against their will and ignores what the other person is asking for. Sure, an ace could not want it, but if they say yes and consent, you can't call the sexual person a rapist. The sexual person cannot be expected to be a mind reader and to just know that that "yes" was not sincere.

I am an extremely sex-repulsed asexual, but I still have sex with my boyfriend, solely for his benefit. I don't like sex, I don't want sex, it is scary and traumatic from start to finish, and there have been plenty of times when I had to leave the room afterward to go off and cry, but my boyfriend is in no way raping me. I make the decision to sleep with him because I think it is what's best for the relationship. He has offered plenty of times for us to never do anything sexual again, but I don't believe that that would be a good choice for us.

You can say that you're calling the act rape and not calling the person a rapist, but that is not how that works. Rape is done by rapists, just how murderers murder. In mixed relationships, difference between consensual sex and rape is in what the sexual person does. If you say no and they force themselves on you, it's rape. If an asexual person says yes, that is consent.

"Compromise" is not being forced into something. Compromise is, by its very definition, a mutual agreement. Rape is a big word, and I think it is thrown around in our society much too loosely.

[purplesnow]

There's a lot of good in this post: it's important for people to know they don't need to feel like they have to compromise, and that appearing to consent to something under pressure does not mean it was genuinely consensual, and so on. That's not even just an asexual issue, of course. Either way, I just cannot get on board with the premise that compromise is always rape. I have had compromise sex before, and the only person who gets to decide whether or not I consented to that is me, not the author of this article. Other people's opinions of whether or not I consented "properly" are irrelevant.

[Philip027]

I don't necessarily agree with the initial point made about consent, and how "compromise sex is not consensual"

Consent is merely "I give you my permission to do something." Could be anything, not just sex.

I don't know where the whole "enthusiastic consent" thing comes from. We give consent for a lot of things in life even though we might not really really want it, like going in to the dentist to get a root canal, or whatever. I don't know of anyone who's been *enthusiastic* about going in to get a root canal. But they do it anyway, because people know it will stabilize things elsewhere, whether it be the relationship, or our dental health, or whatever. That is still consent.

[oreiayean]

Part of me actually agrees with this article. I had sex, for the first time ever, earlier this year. I was, and still am, completely sex repulsed. I don't regret it, but I ended up getting into an argument with the person I had sex with because that person felt bad when I said "I don't think I'm doing this again". I tried the whole compromise sex, and while it wasn't rape, I had a really hard time hanging out with my friend because I was no longer comfortable in their home and it was just that one time.

[Ficulnean]

First time I've seen this blog. Time to binge read. Not entirely unrelated either; I'm really agreeing with the criticism of rape being purely about power, because [sarcasm] obviously sex can never become that negative. Because everybody needs to like sex.

[Ricecream-man]

Ok, here is my opinion, and I am genuinely sorry if it offends anyone.

I have spoken to several people who feel that even if an asexual person says YES to sex, it's rape if they don't want it. I am %100 AGAINST this belief. "Rape" implies that the person forces someone into it against their will and ignores what the other person is asking for. Sure, an ace could not want it, but if they say yes and consent, you can't call the sexual person a rapist. The sexual person cannot be expected to be a mind reader and to just know that that "yes" was not sincere.

I am an extremely sex-repulsed asexual, but I still have sex with my boyfriend, solely for his benefit. I don't like sex, I don't want sex, it is scary and traumatic from start to finish, and there have been plenty of times when I had to leave the room afterward to go off and cry, but my boyfriend is in no way raping me. I make the decision to sleep with him because I think it is what's best for the relationship. He has offered plenty of times for us to never do anything sexual again, but I don't believe that that would be a good choice for us.

You can say that you're calling the act rape and not calling the person a rapist, but that is not how that works. Rape is done by rapists, just how murderers murder. In mixed relationships, difference between consensual sex and rape is in what the sexual person does. If you say no and they force themselves on you, it's rape. If an asexual person says yes, that is consent.

"Compromise" is not being forced into something. Compromise is, by its very definition, a mutual agreement. Rape is a big word, and I think it is thrown around in our society much too loosely.

I'm sorry, but the bolded part had me a bit worried. Not going to go further, but I just want to say that your situation might be a matter of concern and maybe he should know about that if he doesn't already.

I disagree with what the author wrote in regards to consent, however I do agree with the final message they seem to be trying to make.

Consent is defined as an enthusiastic, uncoerced, sober yes. A compromise is something that is accepted, not wanted. It does not involve enthusiasm.

This enthusiastic part really bothers me. When I agree to do a job, household chores, or help a person move I'm not usually enthusiastic about it. This doesn't make what's happening any kind of slavery, blackmail, or abusive interaction. "Uncoerced" is a key word, enthusiastic however is not. You don't have "intense and eager enjoyment, interest, or approval" of a thing (dictionary definition) in order to consent to it.

This next bit however, I agree with.

You shouldnt have to be someone youre not, just to keep a romantic partner. You shouldnt have to do something that makes you feel bad, just to keep a romantic partner.

It becomes compromising and damaging to yourself when you start to believe your relationship hinges on sex and it's an act that causes you stress. If it's an activity that you don't particularly care for but you do it because it makes your partner happy (e.g. taking out trash, doing dishes, massaging them) then it's not a big deal it isn't rape. You can still consent to it.

Now, if it's causing you trauma and you're doing it because you believe that the relationship will fail otherwise, then it's not okay. Call it whatever you want or don't call it anything. The end story is that sexual activity is causing you undue stress, and that results in an unhealthy relationship, no matter how often you say yes it's okay. You're in a state of coercion at this point, whether there's malicious intent or not.

[Cimmerian]

I have my issues with the post but I like where they're coming from, and it mentions one of the main things that do bother me when I see discussions about mixed-relationships here so I think it was decent.

(Note: anytime I mention sex in this post it explicitly refers to intercourse and not other acts or circumstances that can be considered sexual.)

In the most literal form, based on the definitions they mention, I can see why they say compromise is not the same thing as consent. I personally don't have that exact view because in "compromise" situations the ace does consent in the more commonly used, neutral, definition of the word (giving permission). Consent isn't always enthusiastic... for anything.

On the other hand I strongly, strongly dislike how the word "compromise" is used for any variety of "solutions" in mixed relationships. Before I get into my problems with it, I know that sometimes the sexual is willing to let the other set the terms/how often they have sex etc, and the ace is truly indifferent to whether or not they have sex (or find the act pleasurable and is amendable and not bothered with sex in a relationship), so they don't mind and so the word fits and makes sense... but I don't feel like that's the most common situation or asexual "type". (I may look to see if there is a poll asking this in a particular way..)

So often I feel like I see "compromise" used to mean that the ace agrees to have intercourse, despite being genuinely uncomfortable and not wanting the act itself--even if they mentally wish to make their partner happy. Yes, the sexual may be having sex less often than they would like in this version of a "compromise" but in the end, they are getting what they want and the asexual is uncomfortable emotionally at the very least-- and that has never sat right with me and has always left me unsettled. Something about it strikes me as "I have to agree to give you the one thing I don't want to, in order for you to stay with me and be happy--otherwise I'm not worth it" despite the many other genuine compromises that could take place.

I try not to make these kind of things personal, but after seeing "compromise" used that way so many times it's difficult for me not to imagine being in that situation myself, so I can't help but feel vaguely sick and sad when I see those posts now. I feel like "compromise" typically means we're supposed to be willing to cross the strongest line we have... and that it is supposed to be equivalent to giving a "little" or "meeting half-way" (i.e. the use of compromise). I know other people see it differently, but that isn't "giving a little" to me; it's surrendering your need in that situation completely in favor of the other side. I don't like the implication that any compromise is going to mean the ace has to cross not a line but the line.

I don't mean any of that to sound confrontational or as if I don't believe in compromises-- I do, especially in mixed-relationships. I just think they should be more even then that particular "compromise" that I mentioned.

[Tarfeather]

From the linked article:

Consent is defined as an enthusiastic, uncoerced, sober “yes.”

Yeah, of course, by that definition it is not consent. Also, if we define "robot unicorn" as "pink meat bag", then I'm a robot unicorn! Whoop-de-whoo!

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/consent

Permission for something to happen or agreement to do something:

Read The Fucking Manual. Or in this case, dictionary.

[Kuromi Akumura]

Ok, here is my opinion, and I am genuinely sorry if it offends anyone.

I have spoken to several people who feel that even if an asexual person says YES to sex, it's rape if they don't want it. I am %100 AGAINST this belief. "Rape" implies that the person forces someone into it against their will and ignores what the other person is asking for. Sure, an ace could not want it, but if they say yes and consent, you can't call the sexual person a rapist. The sexual person cannot be expected to be a mind reader and to just know that that "yes" was not sincere.

I am an extremely sex-repulsed asexual, but I still have sex with my boyfriend, solely for his benefit. I don't like sex, I don't want sex, it is scary and traumatic from start to finish, and there have been plenty of times when I had to leave the room afterward to go off and cry, but my boyfriend is in no way raping me. I make the decision to sleep with him because I think it is what's best for the relationship. He has offered plenty of times for us to never do anything sexual again, but I don't believe that that would be a good choice for us.

You can say that you're calling the act rape and not calling the person a rapist, but that is not how that works. Rape is done by rapists, just how murderers murder. In mixed relationships, difference between consensual sex and rape is in what the sexual person does. If you say no and they force themselves on you, it's rape. If an asexual person says yes, that is consent.

"Compromise" is not being forced into something. Compromise is, by its very definition, a mutual agreement. Rape is a big word, and I think it is thrown around in our society much too loosely.

I am very worried about you having these traumatic experiences over and over again, how can someone who love you be happy with doing something that makes you suffer so much. He could always not do so for your own health. Even strangers over the Internet, i care if you are getting hurt...if you cry and it scares you , it would be best to find another compromise, i may not know you situation but you saying you are hurting so much over this is scary for me. It seems he does care about you so you should take the offer and to put yourself in situations so damaging, if he truly does love you he would accept stopping something that is hurting someone he loves. I doubt he can enjoy something with is at your expense.

but i do agree now with the whole it's not rape because you just aren't enthusiastic about it. Because i understand how looking at my own relationship and comparing, that at first i really didn't like kissing and it was allot out of me but i did it happily and was okay with it for my partner and that intimacy meant something important to me.

but hear me out, you can say yes and offer something ( like this is a example i have done) out of obligation or guilt or self hate, that isn't truly consent because emotionally you don't want to do it but forcing yourself to do it is very bad. I have offered sexual contact to my partner many times but he declined because he didn't want me to do anything i was 100% comfortable or wasn't happy to do. you are saying no to yourself and doing something you know you will hate and regret. Well there can be a forced compromise out of once again guilt o self hate, emotions you feel are more important then the words you say.

[Kuromi Akumura]

From the linked article:

Consent is defined as an enthusiastic, uncoerced, sober “yes.”

Yeah, of course, by that definition it is not consent. Also, if we define "robot unicorn" as "pink meat bag", then I'm a robot unicorn! Whoop-de-whoo!

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/consent

Permission for something to happen or agreement to do something:

Read The Fucking Manual. Or in this case, dictionary.

hey i didn't write the article. but there are grey areas in that, everything in the world is more than just the definition.

[Tarfeather]

There's a lot of good in this post: it's important for people to know they don't need to feel like they have to compromise, and that appearing to consent to something under pressure does not mean it was genuinely consensual, and so on. That's not even just an asexual issue, of course. Either way, I just cannot get on board with the premise that compromise is always rape. I have had compromise sex before, and the only person who gets to decide whether or not I consented to that is me, not the author of this article. Other people's opinions of whether or not I consented "properly" are irrelevant.

Part of me actually agrees with this article. I had sex, for the first time ever, earlier this year. I was, and still am, completely sex repulsed. I don't regret it, but I ended up getting into an argument with the person I had sex with because that person felt bad when I said "I don't think I'm doing this again". I tried the whole compromise sex, and while it wasn't rape, I had a really hard time hanging out with my friend because I was no longer comfortable in their home and it was just that one time.

I disagree with what the author wrote in regards to consent, however I do agree with the final message they seem to be trying to make.

I have my issues with the post but I like where they're coming from, and it mentions one of the main things that do bother me when I see discussions about mixed-relationships here so I think it was decent.

Look, I myself fall in the camp of people who thinks it's a bad idea to have sex if you don't yourself enjoy it. However, as such a person who agrees with "the point the article is trying to make", I think it is highly important to dismiss the article itself.

The article uses completely messed up reasoning, emotional manipulation and re-definition of words with a very clear meaning to make a point that happens to be true (in my opinion). But if a logically consistent outsider were to see that article, they would dismiss the arguments immediately, which would also cast the conclusion of the article into doubt.

To make that point, we don't need to re-define consent. We don't need to emotionally manipulate the reader into believing that having sex with an asexual is comparable to rape.

It is enough to consider that if you love someone, you don't want to make them feel bad. In conclusion, if you love your asexual partner, you wouldn't want to have sex with them if they don't enjoy it.

So personally, I find any mixed relationship with sex that one party doesn't enjoy whatsoever to be very questionable. I would doubt that it involves two people who truly love each other in a platonic way. I would suspect strong romantic feelings to be in play that override concerns related to mutuality and trust.

However, to each their own. Some people are fine being in a relationship that is primarily romantic in nature. In fact, some people seem to prefer some conflict and suffering in their relationship as it "spices things up". And if they're an adult person and aware of the nature of the relationship, they have every right to continue a relationship like that if it's their decision.

Saying that a person can not consent to sex they're not "enthusiastic" about is, in my opinion, much worse than having sex with someone who consents but doesn't necessarily enjoy it. The sexual partner in question respects the asexual's agency and free will. Someone who disputes their ability to consent, denies these people their agency and free will, treating them as children who need an adult to decide for them what they're allowed to do/consent to.

[MesMis]

I'm assuming we're discussing the post that's currently at the top of the blog, that's the only one I read.

From what I see in this thread, I think some may be letting the word "rape" drown out the entire article. The author only mentions rape once, and ONLY in a questioning context, where they offer another equally valid option in parallel: "Is there actually a category of sex that is neither fully consensual nor rape, that asexuals have exclusive experience with?"

And as a sexual who has had compromise sex, I think this is a great question and the answer is yes - except I would say "asexuals and their partners have exclusive experience with". It's a very freeing thought because it lets us escape the blame game and focus on the intent of the article: questioning NOT whether this third category is rape, but whether it is an option the ace should consider worthy of pursuit. And the author thinks not.

The author tackles this only from the ace point of view, but I think it's a crucial question for both parties to ask of themselves. I already said I think this third category is valid. As a sexual, please let me be clear: the third category is as unpleasant and negative and awful for me as the ace, sometimes I think worse. NOT because I feel I am violating my partner, but simply because - it takes two to tango. Maybe I'm unique this way. Maybe some sexuals are completely immune to the "unenthusiasm", "reluctance", "compromise", whatever word you wish to use of their partners.

So often I feel like I see "compromise" used to mean that the ace agrees to have intercourse, despite being genuinely uncomfortable and not wanting the act itself--even if they mentally wish to make their partner happy. Yes, the sexual may be having sex less often than they would like in this version of a "compromise" but in the end, they are getting what they want and the asexual is uncomfortable emotionally at the very least-- and that has never sat right with me and has always left me unsettled. Something about it strikes me as "I have to agree to give you the one thing I don't want to, in order for you to stay with me and be happy--otherwise I'm not worth it" despite the many other genuine compromises that could take place.

No. Just no. If I were a robot, maybe, but I'm not, and compromise sex involves a great deal of emotional distress for me. It's a sacrifice. It's certainly a compromise, of sorts.

And so the question after all this is again - is compromise sex, for both parties, a worthy pursuit? For me....I don't think so, not normally.

This is a great blog post. I'd like to hear other sexual opinions.