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Sexual attraction ONLY as a secondary to romantic attraction. Ace-spec?


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Basically, I'm not sure if this is what demisexual is, or if I'm just a bit of a weird allosexual.

Generally speaking I'm completely disinterested in sex, have no interest in it, and have no interest in having it, and mostly find it a little gross except when I have extremely strong romantic feelings for someone. And a reciprocated emotional bond isn't necessary, I don't have to have dated them for nine months or whatever before I feel that, it's mostly that I feel a desire for sex only as an outgrowth of very strong romantic attraction as a way to be closer to the person in question. The sex itself isn't interesting or important to me in any kind of intrinsic way, it's just the closeness/expression of romantic emotions that I like.

I always feel weirdly left out when everyone talks about "oh yeah butts!" or whatever, because I genuinely don't understand what on earth they're talking about or thinking about that they like re: butts. Like, it's a body part. Why are we fixating on it.

But anyway. Does this sound ace-spec at all to you lovely folks?

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whocaresthough

Personally, I'd say you're grey-A. It doesn't sound demisexual to me. Just my opinion, though. It's not my place to say. ^ ^

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Ricecream-man

Sounds pretty demi to me.

A strong emotional bond being the primary prerequisite for sexual attraction? Yup

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You say you feel a desire for sex yet say you don't desire it but its bonding pay off; kinda contradicting. Sex releases the highest amount of oxytocin; the bonding hormone, so that's why you feel close after sex. Sexual attraction is when someones presence is sexually arousing and causes the impulse/desire to do sexual things to/with that person. Asexuals can have sex and enjoy sex for different reasons; such as bonding, they just don't have the impulse to have it.

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Thanks a ton for the replies!

Personally, I'd say you're grey-A. It doesn't sound demisexual to me. Just my opinion, though. It's not my place to say. ^ ^

Thanks! Why would you say grey-A instead of demi, if you don't mind my asking?

Sounds pretty demi to me.
A strong emotional bond being the primary prerequisite for sexual attraction? Yup

So what I described sounds like the prototypical demi emotional bond to you? I've gotten kind of confused whether it means I have to have dated someone for a while or shared a lot of major life happenings, and have shared intimate secrets or something, or if just feeling over-the-moon romantically attracted qualifies.

You say you feel a desire for sex yet say you don't desire it but its bonding pay off; kinda contradicting. Sex releases the highest amount of oxytocin; the bonding hormone, so that's why you feel close after sex. Sexual attraction is when someones presence is sexually arousing and causes the impulse/desire to do sexual things to/with that person. Asexuals can have sex and enjoy sex for different reasons, they just don't have the impulse to have it.

Hmm, it's contradicting? I was thinking, it seems like most people desire sex as its own separate thing, you know? Like, someone might love their wife, but they ALSO want sex in a way that is independent from loving their wife. I don't really have that. When it happens it's almost like I have so much romantic attraction that it spills over into being sort of sexual in a way that doesn't feel.... urgent? But the sexual interest never happens on its own and when it does happen it's always very secondary to whatever romantic feelings I'm having.

I don't know if that made any sense. Thanks to anyone who reads my rambling :)

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whocaresthough

Thanks! Why would you say grey-A instead of demi, if you don't mind my asking?

I think that demi is a little more of a connection than what you seem to feel. As a demiromantic, it has taken five years to develop slight attraction to my best friend. Though, that's just my experience. There may be a few different ways of being demi, Just as being ace. Though, it's your definition. You know yourself best. :)

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Ricecream-man

Mhm, just requires a strong emotional bond. For some that means that yes, it takes a lot of time and shared life experiences. For others it can be instantaneous. You seem like a romantic demisexual.

Whether or not that means you're asexual is up for debate but that's a whole different topic :P

Just want to add that in the end it doesn't matter. As long as you know what you want then who cares about finding labels.

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Ricecream-man

Personally, I'd say you're grey-A. It doesn't sound demisexual to me. Just my opinion, though. It's not my place to say. ^ ^

Thanks! Why would you say grey-A instead of demi, if you don't mind my asking?

I think that demi is a little more of a connection than what you seem to feel. As a demiromantic, it has taken five years to develop slight attraction to my best friend. Though, that's just my experience. There may be a few different ways of being demi, Just as being ace. Though, it's your definition. You know yourself best. :)

See, but you're demiromantic. That means that the prerequisites for your romantic side to come out aren't strong sudden emotions like the ones involved with romance are. That's why it would take longer for you.

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whocaresthough

See, but you're demiromantic. That means that the prerequisites for your romantic side to come out aren't strong sudden emotions like the ones involved with romance are. That's why it would take longer for you.

You have a point. That, being mixed with my sex-repulsion and lithoromanticism, may be other reasons. Like I said, yours has a total possibility of being different from mine, and vice versa.

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Everything both of you have said makes complete sense to me. I've always figured demi- required a longer-term more through-thick-and-thin kind of bond, but it also makes total sense that it would just be a strong emotional bond, and how long that takes, etc completely depends on the person. Thank you for the helpfulness and clarity!

Just want to add that in the end it doesn't matter. As long as you know what you want then who cares about finding labels.

I tend to agree in terms of knowing yourself, but I find labels quite helpful for contextualization. If my experience/predilections/whatever fit a particular label, it makes it a lot easier for me to find other people who work in similar ways and share what sorts of things work for us :)

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Ricecream-man

Just want to add that in the end it doesn't matter. As long as you know what you want then who cares about finding labels.

I tend to agree in terms of knowing yourself, but I find labels quite helpful for contextualization. If my experience/predilections/whatever fit a particular label, it makes it a lot easier for me to find other people who work in similar ways and share what sorts of things work for us :)

Mhm that's the point of labels. What Ibwas getting at was that if in the end you don't quite fall into any particular category don't be too bothered. It seems now like that's not an issue for you, but I've seen so many people here get caught up on making a label fit them even at the cost of changing what it actually means.

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Yes, they're controdictory; having the impulse to do sexual things to someone and only wanting a bond are two different things. Allosexuals may like that pay off but it is not their only motive. I think you're talking about sex-drive when you're talking about people wanting sex other than toward their partner; it's a desire for sex rather than having anything to do with a person. Sexual people can have no sex-drive, but that's a type of Gray-A. If your desire to act on it is just low then there is Hyposexual. But if you're just sex indifferent and don't just have a low sex drive (the difference between having a low number and 0; not to be confused with -1/unwanting it) then there is Apathsexual (root word being apathy).

But you didn't answer if my description of sexual attraction is what you feel. And when you say your romantic feelings spill over in a sexual way, do you mean making out or groping with the intent of arousal? (sorry for the vulgarity but this tends to make things clearer:) Do you desire to have contact with his genitals or hump him? If a bond is all you want then there are other ways of obtaining that, though some peoples bodies can't produce oxytocin to that level any other way than sex.

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bcs your experience is similar to mine :P I am also confused about my label but demisexual seems to be the simplest one for other people to understand.

Star Bit has helped me figure myself out quite a bit, and the other posters here show how diverse things can be.

Anyway, welcome to AVEN! I hope you enjoy it here!

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Mhm that's the point of labels. What Ibwas getting at was that if in the end you don't quite fall into any particular category don't be too bothered. It seems now like that's not an issue for you, but I've seen so many people here get caught up on making a label fit them even at the cost of changing what it actually means.

Gotcha. I've fallen into that trap before, myself. It's definitely no good.

Yes, they're controdictory; having the impulse to do sexual things to someone and only wanting a bond are two different things. Allosexuals may like that pay off but it is not their only motive. I think you're talking about sex-drive when you're talking about people wanting sex other than toward their partner; it's a desire for sex rather than having anything to do with a person. Sexual people can have no sex-drive, but that's a type of Gray-A. If your desire to act on it is just low then there is Hyposexual. But if you're just sex indifferent and don't just have a low sex drive (the difference between having a low number and 0; not to be confused with -1/unwanting it) then there is Apathsexual (root word being apathy).

But you didn't answer if my description of sexual attraction is what you feel. And when you say your romantic feelings spill over in a sexual way, do you mean making out or groping with the intent of arousal? (sorry for the vulgarity but this tends to make things clearer:) Do you desire to have contact with his genitals or hump him? If a bond is all you want then there are other ways of obtaining that, though some peoples bodies can't produce oxytocin to that level any other way than sex.

I would say it does seem like sexual attraction as you've described it, more or less. Arousal isn't the intent, really, the intent is to get as close to the person physically as possible, but arousal will happen while doing that, and then that often turns into sex, which I greatly enjoy in that specific context (but not in any others). It's similar to the kind of bonding feeling I would get while cuddling that person and watching TV. That bonding feeling is the primary emotion/interest I have, any sexual arousal or sexual feelings I have are always secondary to that. But they do exist, when that romantic/bonding feeling also exists.

bcs your experience is similar to mine :P I am also confused about my label but demisexual seems to be the simplest one for other people to understand.

Star Bit has helped me figure myself out quite a bit, and the other posters here show how diverse things can be.

Anyway, welcome to AVEN! I hope you enjoy it here!

Thanks! I'm getting the feeling that demisexual might be the closest-to-right one for me, too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Mercurial Daydream

I would say it does seem like sexual attraction as you've described it, more or less. Arousal isn't the intent, really, the intent is to get as close to the person physically as possible, but arousal will happen while doing that, and then that often turns into sex, which I greatly enjoy in that specific context (but not in any others). It's similar to the kind of bonding feeling I would get while cuddling that person and watching TV. That bonding feeling is the primary emotion/interest I have, any sexual arousal or sexual feelings I have are always secondary to that. But they do exist, when that romantic/bonding feeling also exists.

It's interesting to me how our experiences are, I think, diverging at a certain point. I love cuddling and closeness and know a feeling of wanting someone physically close as possible, and those feelings can help me relax and feel more comfortable in a way. If given many hours of cuddling and sensual touch, with someone I am very close to and trust, my feelings of repulsion ease to where I'm able to do something sexual if it's important to my partner. I find my own sensation of physical arousal triggered by these situations really uncomfortable, which is certainly partly body dysphoria. Thankfully my physical arousal usually goes away once I know they are sexually satisfied or disinterested, and if not I strongly prefer to masturbate over having someone do sexual things to me. I think it's more of a fear driven arousal than anything, actually, occasionally mixed with a libido of my own which isn't looking for a partner.

I don't feel sexual activities of any kind enhance my bond to someone, nor do I desire them. Actually, when a partner says they feel closer to me from sex, it just reinforces my discomfort and sense of being their sex toy, as well as fear that they will experience the, to me inexplicable, sense that I am the only person they want to have sex with. Someone telling me they don't and won't ever want to have sex with me feels really sweet and loving, it makes them more attractive, and it feels like they want me for me and not to serve a function that I cannot understand or see the need for. I mean, to me, a vibrator is more effective and gets it over with more quickly too; I can't imagine feeling I needed someone else, and it's also been my experience that I even occasionally genuinely enjoy the sensations when others aren't involved. One study found that aces often described their sexual satisfaction as highest when they have no sex (even higher than sexuals!), and I've found that is true for me too. That is, it seems we get even more gratification out of not having sex than most do out of having it.

I had to be told quite explicitly that most people desire sex as a thing unto itself. I still don't understand why. My (now ex) partner was quite exasperated. I guess I'm especially frustrating to a sexual because I will happily initiate a lot of things that they consider foreplay but I don't want to "follow through." Yuck. It's very frustrating to me that people can't appreciate what I feel for what it is. I have a friend who is an ace aware allo, and very skilled communicator about feelings that arise in relationships; it was very illuminating to compare our experiences, because I'd be feeling I knew exactly what he was talking about up to a point, then I'd be baffled and confused and ask lots of detailed questions. It helped me understand better what allosexuals might feel, helped me develop analogies to understand that still seem bizarre but at least help me reason about and be more empathetic towards people who desire sex. (I do experience primary romantic attraction and can reason by analogy to that.) I like to think I've also come to reason better about aromantics, and hopefully be able to empathize effectively with the feeling of alienation and feeling devalued that seems to go with both aro and ace identities and their gray counterparts, even if the situations and triggers are different.

Also, sexual activities have either been sought too quickly and I'm uncomfortable entirely, or they arrive after hours of intense affection and sensual play, and sex just leaves me feeling numb and withdrawn. Because I find my feelings around my own orgasm and body make being sexually stimulated especially unrewarding and uncomfortable, I've been sometimes described as stone a.k.a. lithsexual, though the preferred term in our community is aposexual to avoid appropriation. I don't identify with any of that now. What I'm least uncomfortable doing to maintain the non-sexual closeness I feel a strong need for isn't a form of sexual attraction at all.

It was clear to me for a while that I was somewhere on the spectrum, and for some time I figured gray, but now feel most comfortable identifying as asexual. Until I was in relationships where I had to have sex to maintain the relationship (starting at 18) and the desire for affection that drew me to others (starting at... birth?), I never looked at others sexually and would be upset and disgusted when others used such language. Now I've been trained (incorrectly) that it's compulsory (I did not start in a healthy secure place), so occasionally I have these moments where I think I might be feeling sexual desire, and it disturbs me to see that I've internalized the sexualization of my feelings of affection towards others, that I've learned that I have to have sex in order to get what I do want. These feelings sicken and disturb me, and I've promised myself celibacy at least until I've resolve this and don't feel compelled to have sex I don't want to get something else, although right now I can't see why I'd want to have sex ever again, but perhaps I'll grow secure and healthy enough to do some indifferent compromise. Sometimes I wonder if I resolve all my other issues, I'll discover I'm secretly allo, and it's really silly because I feel perfectly content without sex and always have. I think I still have some internalized acephobia, and partly in reaction to that, I wear an ace ring to help me remember that I can accept myself and ask others to do the same.

Happily though, my closest relationship right now is with someone ace spectrum, and sexual attraction is simply not an issue for either of us. It's unspeakably wonderful to find someone I really connect with well and not have sexual stuff lurking menacingly. :wub: I wonder if some demisexuals might find it frustrating to be with someone ace if they developed sexual feelings later on, but I also suspect they'd understand where I'm coming from much better, and we'd talk enough that they would surely understand that I would want them to find compatible others to do satisfy any desires for partnered sex. (Non-exclusivity solves a lot of problems for me.)

That grew rather long. Hopefully it helps the OP compare their own experience; I didn't mean to hijack into all about me. Perhaps I should have just started my own thread, although I can't see what I might want in reply so it seems pointless. Perhaps that's what this post is, but oh well, what are a few wasted electrons between friends. :D

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