Do we really owe our parents grandchildren?

[Lord Jade Cross]

Still dont see how you can grieve not meeting someone who isnt even born. In the same sense, not getting to experience grandparenthood is not something you technically lose because you're not in a position to force anyone to make you a granparent. You can at best, only be sad if you dont get to be a parent for whatever reason. (Infertility, involuntary abortion, etc.)

[Indiana Joe]

Still dont see how you can grieve not meeting someone who isnt even born. In the same sense, not getting to experience grandparenthood is not something you technically lose because you're not in a position to force anyone to make you a granparent. You can at best, only be sad if you dont get to be a parent for whatever reason. (Infertility, involuntary abortion, etc.)

I don't believe that any research has been done but I'd hardly be surprised if there were a (socio)biological aspect to becoming a grandparent as an extension of the procreative drive. I think it would be wrong to dismiss genuine grief as a possible response to losing the expectation of grandparenthood. At some point we live vicariously and intensely through our kids.

[Lord Jade Cross]

How does a parent live through a kid exactly?

[Prairie]

A parent grieving over not having grandchildren seems understandable to me. In a way the vision of the future is part of the present as a sense of having that possibility within oneself and others. So having that vision crushed would be experience as that possibility in the present also getting destroyed. It doesn't matter how reasonable these visions were or how practical this kind of living-in-the-future is, it's just understandable how it would be experienced as possession of something that suddenly disappeared.

That this is experienced as a loss and must be grieved doesn't justify mistreating someone as owing them or anything. The two are separate. Experiences and emotions coming from them don't inherently require anything; they just are, and can be processed as reflections of oneself. To a parent wanting to grow, this sense of loss could be used as an opportunity to grow and connect more deeply with their child.

[Indiana Joe]

Prairie more or less has it right there.

Even discounting a biological imperative to see your genes continued, in a traditional, religious household a woman's definition of being whole on a personal level (and perhaps her entire self-image) is often inextricably linked to motherhood.

Of course she's projecting by expecting you to share her ideal of what makes life worth living. On the other hand you seem to be offering adoption as a concession but I see it as a desirable thing in itself and would present it that way whether or not you intend have biological offspring. You don't work around her, you work with her because hope springs eternal and if you have two kids she'll still want three. I don't know Mom personally, of course, but I should think that the problem of her attitude towards adoption will solve itself once she's confronted with a child in need of care and love.

[Sally]

I think the reason some/most parents want grandchildren is that they don't have to raise the grandchildren, they aren't held responsible for by them society, and they can simply enjoy them. Don't blame your parents for feeling that way. You don't owe them grandchildren, but they don't owe you not to want them.

[Nadia Hope]

No, we don't own anyone anything. Especially, having a child, which is a big responsibility. I like my life how it is right now. And I really don't want to know what pregnancy feels like.

My parents got themselves a cat, which my mom refers to as her grandchild because neither me, nor my brother will give her any grandchildren. So, that's an option for other parents, if they want to take care of someone, that can easily be a cat or dog :)

[Confusion 0]

My parents decided it would be a great idea to have kids while my dad was in his 40s. My parents split up a few years ago, and I was left with my dad. Now, I'm nearly 20 years old, very agorophobic, and get nervous every time I try to leave the house. My dad retires very early next year, and in my current state, I have no chance of getting a job or anything.

It is because of how my parents have screwed me over that I don't owe them anything. I do want kids, but not for them.

[Prairie]

It is because of how my parents have screwed me over that I don't owe them anything.

I like this way of putting it: if a child's parents did their part, the child would naturally want to give back to them (the idea of people being naturally spoiled I think is a convenient fiction for bad parents to hide behind). If a parent has to pressure the (adult) child to get something back, that's how they know that they funded this "loan" with counterfeit money.

My desire to contribute to my parents has been directly related to how each treated me, both in the past and present. Though my father started out pretty lousy, he didn't stop growing and I've noticed in the past few years a desire to give to him, corresponding with the way he relates and respects me.

[Autumn Season]

I think the reason some/most parents want grandchildren is that they don't have to raise the grandchildren, they aren't held responsible for by them society, and they can simply enjoy them. Don't blame your parents for feeling that way. You don't owe them grandchildren, but they don't owe you not to want them.

I've got an example for that one: My grandparents on my father's side did not want grandchildren. Why? Because my parents were living with them and they did not want the apartment to be noisy and cramped. My grandparents on my mother's side, who had their own apartment, really wanted grandchildren though. In order to have children, my parents hid my mother's pregnancy for as long as possible (until abortion was not an option anymore). So yeah... Parents (my grandparents in this case) can be selfish and unreasonable.

Currently, I am facing the pressure of getting married and having children. As far as I can see it, my family doesn't even care much about me having a loving husband or any man at all, as long as I produce offspring. I can't help but feel that this is completely wrong. But I am the one (who's indirectly) being called selfish.

Oh, and my opinion, if it isn't clear by now: Do whatever you want with your own body and your own life. It is your decision whether you want children or not.

[DigitalBookDust]

You don't owe your parents grandchildren. The idea of owing anyone children or grandchildren is ludricrous (and a bit chilling). A person is not something to be used, which is how they are viewing these grandchildren. Children are people, not chattel used to settle debts. They should be brought into this world ideally through free choice, responsibly, and by someone with the means to raise them well. (And, no, love alone is NOT enough.)

[Lord Jade Cross]

It is because of how my parents have screwed me over that I don't owe them anything.

I like this way of putting it: if a child's parents did their part, the child would naturally want to give back to them (the idea of people being naturally spoiled I think is a convenient fiction for bad parents to hide behind). If a parent has to pressure the (adult) child to get something back, that's how they know that they funded this "loan" with counterfeit money.

My desire to contribute to my parents has been directly related to how each treated me, both in the past and present. Though my father started out pretty lousy, he didn't stop growing and I've noticed in the past few years a desire to give to him, corresponding with the way he relates and respects me.

So if my parents did I good job, Im going feel inclined to pay them with a grandkid? Whats this supposed to be human traficking or something?

Even if my parents had done an outstanding job parenting, that would not in any way make me think otherwise about wanting to have kids of my own. I dont want kids because 1) the method of bringing a new life into this world disgusts me, 2) I don't like children, 3) there is more to a kid than just wanting to please the grandparents (think money, time, resources, emotional maturity just to name a few. 4) The entire idea of repaying with a kid is just ludicrous and disgusting, you might as well put a price tag on your penis and/or vagina and say "it costs this much for a grandkid" and then afterwards put a pricetag on the kid itself. Be happy you dont have to hang it to a window for display (unless you plan to kill it)

[Autumn Season]

It is because of how my parents have screwed me over that I don't owe them anything.

I like this way of putting it: if a child's parents did their part, the child would naturally want to give back to them (the idea of people being naturally spoiled I think is a convenient fiction for bad parents to hide behind). If a parent has to pressure the (adult) child to get something back, that's how they know that they funded this "loan" with counterfeit money.

My desire to contribute to my parents has been directly related to how each treated me, both in the past and present. Though my father started out pretty lousy, he didn't stop growing and I've noticed in the past few years a desire to give to him, corresponding with the way he relates and respects me.

So if my parents did I good job, Im going feel inclined to pay them with a grandkid?

I don't think that's what Prairie was talking about. She says that we might naturally want to give [something] to our parents, if we love/ respect them/ are grateful for their care. It does not mean we have to do something we don't want to do. It just means we might want to take care of our parents in a similar way as they took care of us: Pay attention to them, display our affection, help them out in tough times, things like these.

[EmilyKay]

Thanks guys! After talking to my grandfather, he is on the fence as well and with us being Christians, that adds extra pressure but I am actually in the works of a project about Asexuality in the Christian prospective to show them that it isn't wrong.

If they're using the "Be fruitful and multiply is a commandment" argument, here is an article I found that refutes that: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/november12/4.58.html

It's okay for your mom to want grandchildren, and it's okay for her to need to grieve that loss if you decide not to give her any, but it's not okay for her to pressure you into having children if you don't want any.

Grieve the loss how exactly? A person can grieve a loss when someone dies but not having a kid is not a death of a person.

They grieve what could have been. Everyone has ideas of what their future will look like. For ElectricLady25's mom, she thought her future would include grandchildren, but that's turning out to not necessarily be the case. Maybe she imagined spoiling the grandkids, or showing off their pictures to her friends, or having them over for sleepovers. But what she's imagined may not be what's going to happen and she may feel disappointed about that.

This may not be the best example, but it's a little similar to when a parent has a child who is diagnosed with a disability and they realize that the life they imagined for their child may not be the life that child will live. So they have to grieve the dreams they had for their child in order to accept reality. Does that make sense?

[Lord Jade Cross]

Dissapointment, I can agree on, but grieving sounds like an exaggerated response.

[Indiana Joe]

If being called "grandma" one day is an integral part of your aspirations and worldview, losing that prospect will cause genuine distress. You may think that it is too humble or unworthy a life goal to be massively disappointed over but perhaps you're just not at a point in life where you can relate to the woman. We could argue all day over whether it's valid or not as a response or we can accept OP's assessment that it is *the* response and work with it.

[Lord Jade Cross]

I dont think that I will ever be at a point in life in which being called father, dad, old man or grandpa, grandfather, granddad, or such other names will be an aspiration despite that Im at an age where most people are going through (40+ for the grandparent one) it or are looking forward going through the stage simply because I dont believe in that ideal.

If this is something that the mother of the OP is distressed over, I cant really see why but just the same, to each their own.

[The_Verse]

Dissapointment, I can agree on, but grieving sounds like an exaggerated response.

People have told you that they have experienced this, so I don't think you can call it exaggerated just because you cannot comprehend it.

People experience grief for many reasons, one of those being "for something that could have been".

We are not responsible for anyone else's grief, however.

[Sally]

This may not be the best example, but it's a little similar to when a parent has a child who is diagnosed with a disability and they realize that the life they imagined for their child may not be the life that child will live. So they have to grieve the dreams they had for their child in order to accept reality. Does that make sense?

As the mother of a disabled daughter, it does make sense. That's how it felt, and still feels.

[Prairie]

I like this way of putting it: if a child's parents did their part, the child would naturally want to give back to them. [...]

So if my parents did I good job, Im going feel inclined to pay them with a grandkid? Whats this supposed to be human traficking or something?

No, just general gratitude to them being a warm presence in your life, as Autumn Season said. I'm not saying that this would absolutely be the case, just a contrast with parents who used a child and then reap the distaste the child has for them later. Sorry it came across as invalidating your situation, which I don't want to do.

Dissapointment, I can agree on, but grieving sounds like an exaggerated response.

Grief is commonly made out to be a serious thing that people should only experience in a select few situations, e.g. death. I think it occurs more commonly but ignored. Any sort of loss can be grieved, though smaller losses of course probably wouldn't involve days of crying and solitude.

[Sally]

I think the reason some/most parents want grandchildren is that they don't have to raise the grandchildren, they aren't held responsible for by them society, and they can simply enjoy them. Don't blame your parents for feeling that way. You don't owe them grandchildren, but they don't owe you not to want them.

I've got an example for that one: My grandparents on my father's side did not want grandchildren. Why? Because my parents were living with them and they did not want the apartment to be noisy and cramped. My grandparents on my mother's side, who had their own apartment, really wanted grandchildren though. In order to have children, my parents hid my mother's pregnancy for as long as possible (until abortion was not an option anymore). So yeah... Parents (my grandparents in this case) can be selfish and unreasonable.

What I said had nothing to do with parents/grandparents being selfish and unreasonable, and your example doesn't reflect what I said. After you've raised children (and I raised two, one of them with a major disability so that she was with me into my relatively old age), of course I wanted grandchildren who DON'T require my constant attention but whom I could love. That's not unreasonable and it certainly isn't selfish.

[Prairie]

Sally, what's selfish is to use others in a disregarding way to meet these wants. That's what I see Autumn Season's story as illustrating: her parents feeling that they had to have kids secretly in order to not get the wrath of some people in their family.

I think that almost everyone in this thread has made clear that they don't view simply wanting grandchildren as selfish, but the actions that some people take based on this. Selfishness (in the negative sense being talked about here) is about actions.

[ThaHoward]

Hell no.

[Sally]

Sally, what's selfish is to use others in a disregarding way to meet these wants. That's what I see Autumn Season's story as illustrating: her parents feeling that they had to have kids secretly in order to not get the wrath of some people in their family.

But parents cannot force their children to give them grandchildren -- thus they can't "use" them. They can make remarks which the children are free to counter, or disregard.

Autumn Season's story wasn't really apropos to the thread -- it was an extreme.

[Prairie]

But parents cannot force their children to give them grandchildren -- thus they can't "use" them.

Wow, I don't think that people literally mean the use of physical force to inseminate one of their offspring and then physically monitor them for nine months to prevent them from having an abortion, and then forcing them to have a pregnancy (perhaps a C-section). I think that people here are talking about emotional intimidation tactics, which regardless of whether you acknowledge them, exist and have profound effects, especially on a child who has endured that for years under the same parents' "care".

[cali87]

Nope. My dad gives me that one my brother is gay(although he HAS a kid, the mother is a nutcase and we have no contact with his kid, so he doesn't count in my dads eyes) so my dad tells me I'm "his only hope" for grandkids. I told him straight up it wasn't happening long before I knew anything about Ace. He still hopes and dreams lol. My mom couldn't care less, she litterally told me to "stick to my guns" about not wanting kids, because she never wanted kids and regretted bowing to the pressure.(my parents are not together lol!)

[JohnnyRingo]

I knew I was childfree before I knew I was asexual. I'd hate being a parent. And being a good parent requires skills and traits I simply don't have. So, none for me, ever. My parents have known for years that they'd never get any grandchildren from me, and they're okay with it. They expressed disappointment when I first told them, but it's never been an issue since. They'd rather I make myself happy than make myself unhappy in some misguided attempt to make them happy.

[Aqua Blue]

I figured they didn't give me everything I wanted either. You get what you get and don't throw a fit, lol.

[*a*rteest]

So I've been spoon feeding my asexuality to my mom and I'm getting the usual stuff of she was the same way when she was younger and that I'll get over it and then I mentioned that if I wasn't with my current boyfriend, I would be so quick to be in another relationship. She started the lonely lines and then uttered that she wanted grandchildren. I mentioned adoption and that didn't go well either. Do I really owe her children? I don't think I do, but how do I get around this?

BTW I am 23 and will be moving out soon. But I'm very close to my family.

My father didn't like it at all when I decided to get myself sterilized at 27. (I also knew I was childfree waaaaaaaaaaay before I realized i was ace.) My mother even mentioned "discussing" it with him....at *twenty-seven*!!!! She's obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, but she helped me when the surgery was done.

I positively don't owe either one of them grandkids. MY body, MY choice. **I*** am the one who's going to get stuck with a kid the rest of my life and my father would have been long gone by the time the chld hit 15. It was none of his %&^#%$ business.

If someone wants grandkids, they can keep it to their ever-freaking-selves. No one needs to hear it when it's not your body, and you are not the one responsible for it.

[Guest]

No, I don't think anyone owes their parents grandchildren. We all should have the freedom to decide how we want to live our lives, and raising children is such a huge responsibly that no one has any right to force/pressure anyone to get them.