Different Dysphorias

[hopeisnotlost]

I...really don't know how to explain this.It depends on the day how I feel.Being bigender I'm not always female which is the gender I was born as.On male days I hate being called a girl or someone calling me she at times.Sometimes I hate my given name so recently I've been trying to go by the name Ray as in my opinion it is a gender neutral...On male days I hate my chest.  I've never had bottom dysphoria unless I am on my period...On female days I am fine and feel no dysphoria.On both days it could go either way I could have dyshoria or not.

[Finn.]

Ray is a beautiful name!

 

And welcome to aven 

[Heart]

Welcome to AVEN and to the Gender Discussion forum @hopeisnotlost As someone who is genderfluid myself, I can understand the complicated relationship with dysphoria. One particular trait will cause the worst gender dysphoria one day, and be a source of gender euphoria the other... it's frustrating, but I have no solution unfortunately

 

[Kimmie.]

One interesting thing is that female clothes dosen´t do much for me at all. It almost makes it wore that everything behind that fabric( and other things) that makes the illusion of the shapes is there is just a lie. And it somewhat hurts.

It is one of those days again when i can´t get this feelings out of my head.

[not-my-cup-of-tea]

On 3/28/2017 at 11:09 AM, hopeisnotlost said:

On male days I hate being called a girl or someone calling me she at times.Sometimes I hate my given name so recently I've been trying to go by the name Ray as in my opinion it is a gender neutral...On male days I hate my chest.  I've never had bottom dysphoria unless I am on my period...On female days I am fine and feel no dysphoria.On both days it could go either way I could have dyshoria or not.

@hopeisnotlost I completely agree with you even though we have different genders. Since, I'm agenderfluid, I switch genders. When I'm female, no dysphoria at all. Agender, it varies. But when I'm a man, I have complete dysphoria to the point where I just want to stab my chest and cry. I hate it when people mistake my pronouns and I created a gender-neutral name for others to call me. 

[hopeisnotlost]

6 hours ago, not-my-cup-of-tea said:

@hopeisnotlost I completely agree with you even though we have different genders. Since, I'm agenderfluid, I switch genders. When I'm female, no dysphoria at all. Agender, it varies. But when I'm a man, I have complete dysphoria to the point where I just want to stab my chest and cry. I hate it when people mistake my pronouns and I created a gender-neutral name for others to call me. 

(hugs)

[Mezzo Forte]

More about a way I used to experience dysphoria rather than what I feel now, but that counts right? 

 

I recently was talking about Pre-T emotions with a good friend of mine, and as I was discussing the way I used to feel when I cried, my friend looked at me and said "that sounds like you were disassociating." 

 

I don't know how I never noticed, but I think he's right. Crying (especially around early puberty) used to feel like my body was reacting to something my brain simply wasn't, and it often just felt like I was sitting inside my brain, waiting for my body to calm down. I always just wrote it off as yet another way I felt out-of-control in regards to crying, but the disassociation makes too much sense. In fact, my coping tactic of "distract yourself until the problem goes away" probably lends itself well to that kind of thing, so I wouldn't be shocked if I uncovered other instances of disassociation as I parse through my memories.

 

(Does remembering your entire early childhood coldly from a third-person perspective count as disassociation? I genuinely don't have a single visceral memory of my emotions from before puberty. I can remember seeing the physical actions that belied emotions, but I don't remember the feelings as if they were my own, and I remember them all as if I were someone else watching my childhood self.)

[butterflydreams]

10 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I genuinely don't have a single visceral memory of my emotions from before puberty.

I'm the opposite. Young me hadn't been broken by the world yet, and my parents were so much more flexible with me when I was little. I've recalled it fondly here many times, and when I was in my teens, I even remember looking back on my young childhood and lamenting how much more "genderfluid" I used to be (not the right word, but it was 2004 when I came up with it). In retrospect, it's incredible the fight I put up. It took years for me to get beat down. Puberty was the final nail in the coffin honestly.

 

And as all of that happened, I more and more forfeit the rights to my life to third parties (my parents mostly). I made no decisions myself. I pushed everything off to someone else. I really felt like I was living someone else's life. I guess in a way, I was.

[nerdperson777]

On 3/31/2017 at 5:48 AM, Mezzo Forte said:

 

(Does remembering your entire early childhood coldly from a third-person perspective count as disassociation? I genuinely don't have a single visceral memory of my emotions from before puberty. I can remember seeing the physical actions that belied emotions, but I don't remember the feelings as if they were my own, and I remember them all as if I were someone else watching my childhood self.)

Sometimes I talk about my life before when I thought I was cis like I'm just telling facts. I find nothing wrong with facts. But at the same time I could be ignoring my own dysphoria and I'm not sure what I'm doing. Like I've joked before about the time I went to prom. I'm not particularly fond of moments when I had to wear a dress, but sometimes it's just a story to me. I never got the idea of dissociation but maybe I do that. 

[Toothlesss]

I've lost my mind. Being addressed as a woman that I'm not- I've pretty much had my last straw with all this gendered language and the people who believe it's fine to use gendered language EVERYWHERE. 

In Publix just a mere 15 minutes ago, I had a breakdown (minus crying but lets just say it was facepalm and "stop addressing me like this!"). My mom was there too, which- eh. 

 

Employee who knows "us": Hey ladies! 
My mom reacts as usual....

Me: "UGH-stop addressing me like that..." then I said to myself "I hate femininity, I hate everything associated with femininity..." 

[Kimmie.]

@Toothless i am sorry that you have to go through all that.

[nerdperson777]

@Toothlesss *gives a dysphoria shield*

[Casimir]

I keep getting this feeling that my dysphoria is getting worse over time. Or maybe I'm just getting more aware of it?

 

I experience dysphoria almost constantly. It's not always on the front of my mind or anything, I'm not always thinking about it, sometimes I just forget about it, but it's always there in the next moment. 

 

Mostly my dysphoria is physical. I used to think I didn't experience social dysphoria, but now I think that's wrong. I HATE posts and people saying things about "women." Things like, "Here are some of the differences between men and women," and, "All women enjoy/like/ want this," and, "Women are..." I don't identify as a women. I'm genderless and I don't really care about my pronouns, but being associated with femininity annoys me big time. Stuff like that bothers me because I know people will associate with it because I have a female body. Or I look at what they say, and it applies to everyone! Why not just apply it to everyone? Why target a certain subset of humanity? I hate that people could have a certain idea of how I should act or look like or be just because I have a female body and I dress femininely. Don't define me!

 

But yeah, mostly it's all physical. One things that will, without fail, trigger me is male-female sex. I can stand it. At all. I can't hear it, see it, read it, get told about it, nothing. I know I'm completely sex-repulsed, but I almost feel like it's becoming a phobia! Unfortunately, my body is sensitive to all mentions of sex, and it gets aroused at the barest hint. I hate it! I hate being aroused!

 

Spoiler

I hate how wet and sticky it gets down there. I'm oozing disgusting fluids against my will and it makes me feel dirty. Not just physically dirty, but like I'm soiled on an emotional and mental level. I feel like my vagina taints me! Then I hear phrases like, "You're so wet down there,"  as like a common sexual phrase or something and I wanna cry because it's almost a traumatic thing to me and to hear people pointing it out, even to other people or in a story or a movie or whatever?! And I can't stand the word pussy. It's so degrading and I feel dirty and disgusting just hearing it because I have the genitals that word refers to! People use that word as an insult! Of course I hate it! All of it just makes me want to tear into my body and just rip it all out. How do people even find that sloppy, gross thing attractive?! The thought that people might think about me in a sexual way, or find me sexually attractive, honestly makes me feel like I'm being violated. I don't consider myself especially attractive, so I doubt it happens much. Just that thought that it might or has... Ugh. I wanna cry. I just want to be aesthetically attractive! That's it!

 

My body and my mind are two separate things. I feel betrayed by my body! My body is like yeah sex, and me, my mind are saying NO NO NO NOT EVER, but it doesn't listen! Just the thought of actually having sex, trying to picture it actually happening... I physically shudder and if I don't think about something else right away, I start to panic, hyperventilate and gross sob. That's how much I hate it. But my body wants it! I can't even describe how betrayed and disgusted I feel. It makes me hate myself. My period just manages to throw all this back in my face every month. Thanks uterus-I-never-asked-for.

 

Pregnancy is also a trigger. I just seriously hate the social expectation that I must get married and birth children because I'm female. If not birth children, adopt or have them some other way. No. No. NO. I'm not going to have kids, and despite what my mom likes to think, that is a guarantee. I'm not comfortable with the thought of sex, and there's no way I can handle the actual act of it. Even artificial insemination isn't an option because, one it's expensive, and two, I also find pregnancy extremely disgusting and disturbing. Also, I just don't want to raise children. Period. Yeah.

 

Breasts aren't a huge deal to me. I dislike having them. They're annoying, and I wish I didn't have them. But I don't have as big an issue with them as I do my genitals. Also, I may be able to get rid of them one day...

 

I didn't use to be this way. I used to read heterosexual books, romances and fanfics all the time. I can't bring myself to read some of my favorite books anymore! My favorite books sit on my bookshelf and I have to live with knowing I will never read them again! It's heartbreaking! I know why I'm like this. Why I can't have anything to do with heterosexual romance or male-female sex; my mind automatically puts myself in the POV of the female character. Even if it's 3rd person, "I'm" still the character. I can't handle having anything sexual associated with myself, I just I break down. That's why I only read fanfiction these days, and only male slash (gay) or general (no sex or romance). Even then, I sometimes get triggered. 

 

It has severely limited what I read and watch. It's affecting my day-to-day life! 

 

I mean, I'm not miserable. I'm not in emotional agony constantly. I work around it. I don't really watch TV. I only really watch animated ("children") movies these days. I don't really read books, just fanfiction. If someone is around me is talking about it, I endure it and either don't contribute to the conversation much or steer it in another direction. If I do get seriously triggered, I cry and don't talk to anyone about it because who can I talk to?! No one around me understands or can do anything about it! I don't want my mom or friends to feel sad or depressed over my dysphoria, cause I know they can't do anything about it or really even comfort me, so I just don't say anything. My "episodes" are always pretty short as well. I break down, then an hour later I'm good. I always look back at my break downs and can't help but think, "That's so pathetic. What were you so upset for?! You're fine! You can't do anything about it so stop freaking out!" Then, of course, it will happen again later. My breakdowns can occur anywhere from daily if I'm really having a hard time, to weeks apart. But I'm almost always uncomfortable with my body.

 

What can I do? There is no way to become sexless. I don't see any way my dysphoria could be relieved. I've been debating trying out some more neutral or masculine clothes, but I like feeling pretty and clothes don't fix my body. What can I do? At this point I'm just hoping it lessens with age and exercise. (Exercise to shrink the boobs and maybe give me something I like about my body?)

 

Sorry this is so long. AVEN is really my only place to talk about these feelings and I wanted to get them out. I mostly feel helpless on this subject.

[Alex the Queer]

oh my god i feel horrible. i've been getting so fucking dysphoric lately, to the point where i've started dissociating a bit. i like need to get a binder at this point. i've been breaking dow in the shower, barely able to force myself in at all, totally unable to touch or look at most of my own body. problem is, my parents aren't accepting, and i don't have any friends or anything like that that could help me sneak one without them knowing. but it's like almost dire at this point and i don't know how much longer i can physically handle it

[nerdperson777]

55 minutes ago, Hamiltrash Queer said:

oh my god i feel horrible. i've been getting so fucking dysphoric lately, to the point where i've started dissociating a bit. i like need to get a binder at this point. i've been breaking dow in the shower, barely able to force myself in at all, totally unable to touch or look at most of my own body. problem is, my parents aren't accepting, and i don't have any friends or anything like that that could help me sneak one without them knowing. but it's like almost dire at this point and i don't know how much longer i can physically handle it

Do you have a local LGBT+ support center who can help you?  I'm kind of contemplating whether I should give away or sell the binders I don't use since I only use one kind now.  But I'm also small chested so mine not not fit many.

[Alex the Queer]

8 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

Do you have a local LGBT+ support center who can help you?

i just looked it up and there's several in the nearest city about 20 miles away. but i have no way to get to one. thanks for the suggestion, though

[Guest]

I know it sounds stupid but I just hope they can invent a button you could push to take all these things that are bothering you away.

[hopeisnotlost]

Just now, Jayce said:

I know it sounds stupid but I just hope they can invent a button you could push to take all these things that are bothering you away.

I don't think that is stupid.I sometimes hope the same

[Heart]

On 2017-04-03 at 4:10 PM, AvengelAzrael said:

 

It has severely limited what I read and watch. It's affecting my day-to-day life! 

 

The very first thing I want to say is that you are NOT wrong, broken, or weak for feeling these things. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. Ok?

 

The second thing I want to ask is if you want help? The quoted bit above makes it sound like this is difficult for you, and it sounds like it would be for just about anyone. I have sex repulsion mixed in with (sometimes) dysphoria too, but it's not nearly so bad. If you want help dealing with this, then I'd suggest trying to get some. Therapists and counsellors can be amazing. A counsellor once helped me tell my doctor about how much my period pains were affecting my life, after I'd spent a decade and a half being turned away by doctors who told me that period cramps were normal and would go away on their own (which some are, but mine were far beyond the level of "normal" cramps!). I had built up a solid conviction that the reason I couldn't cope wasn't because I wasn't being given the medication I needed, but rather because I was just weak. Which is wrong, but it had had a decade and a half to stew in my head and feel like truth. The counsellor spent weeks with me, helping me work through those emotions. At first, it was so debilitating that I couldn't really talk most of the session because I just cried the whole time. It was the first time in my life a professional had shown me empathy and compassion, and it opened flood gates. But we worked it up, she helped me plan a script for how to talk to my doctor, and how to get the help I needed.

 

I wonder if something like that could help you too. These professionals' jobs are to help. Given, some people are better fits for you than others, and you will have to acknowledge that you may not find one that works the first time around. But if something is "severely affecting your life", that is literally the qualification (here in Canada) to be given help!]

 

Oh, and the following is discussion of genital nullification things, so maybe a trigger for dysphoria. I'll put it in spoilers.

Spoiler

There is such a thing as genital surgery that leaves you with neither a penis or a vagina. They can do this from either sex too; they will close the vagina, and probably move the urethra (where you pee from) around just a little to accommodate the changes. You can get hysterectomies too, if that helps, that will remove your uterus-that-you-never-asked-for. This is something you should ask medical professionals more about; nobody here is a medical professional, so we can't give advice on it.

 

[butterflydreams]

2 hours ago, Heart said:

Oh, and the following is discussion of genital nullification things, so maybe a trigger for dysphoria. I'll put it in spoilers.

  Hide contents

There is such a thing as genital surgery that leaves you with neither a penis or a vagina. They can do this from either sex too; they will close the vagina, and probably move the urethra (where you pee from) around just a little to accommodate the changes. You can get hysterectomies too, if that helps, that will remove your uterus-that-you-never-asked-for. This is something you should ask medical professionals more about; nobody here is a medical professional, so we can't give advice on it.

 

There was a very informative AMA on reddit about a trans woman who went this route. Sadly I can't remember where it is or what it was called, but a little googling should help you find it if anyone is interested. She said she did it because it was lower risk than the "full" surgery and she didn't feel all that was necessary. She also said she was able to heal faster too.

[Kimmie.]

I start to realize more and more how much i dislike my body. My body just don´t really fits with my mind or how to  describe it. 

[SamwiseLovesLife]

I experience body dysphoria around my breasts and to a lesser extent my menstruation (only effects me during a period)

[butterflydreams]

Well, that was nice. I just wanted to relax by taking a bath and listening to a podcast while shaving my legs. Sadly that requires being naked  Alcohol and bubbles made it tolerable, but not as relaxing as I might've liked.

[Casimir]

On 4/5/2017 at 0:04 PM, Heart said:

The second thing I want to ask is if you want help? The quoted bit above makes it sound like this is difficult for you, and it sounds like it would be for just about anyone. If you want help dealing with this, then I'd suggest trying to get some. Therapists and counsellors can be amazing.

 

Oh, and the following is discussion of genital nullification things, so maybe a trigger for dysphoria. I'll put it in spoilers.

  Hide contents

There is such a thing as genital surgery that leaves you with neither a penis or a vagina. They can do this from either sex too; they will close the vagina, and probably move the urethra (where you pee from) around just a little to accommodate the changes. You can get hysterectomies too, if that helps, that will remove your uterus-that-you-never-asked-for. This is something you should ask medical professionals more about; nobody here is a medical professional, so we can't give advice on it.

 

 

Writing that post actually helped me work up the courage to talk to my mom about it. Naturally she became depressed and sad for me, but she also kind of understood. She has an anxiety disorder, so she understands breaking down and anxiety. She also realized that this is a serious issue for me. I mean, she already knew that I can't and don't have anything to do with heterosexual romance or male-female sex. She often wants to watch a show with me or go see a movie with me, but I can't watch it. So my being this way also affects her. It doesn't hurt our relationship, but we would be able to do more things together if my dysphoria weren't so freaking bad...

 

She also helped me put this all into perspective. To me, my dysphoria has always been a personal thing. It's just something I deal with. It comes part and parcel with my life. I immediately came out to her when I realized my orientation, so she can see that my dysphoria has gotten worse as well. It's bad to me, but I work around it, so it isn't a big deal, kinda? But my mom made me look at it from the outside and see that my dysphoria is taking things from me. It's a black miasma that's consuming my life! It scares me. I wasn't kidding when I said it's nearly a phobia.

 

She wants me to see a counselor or therapist or whatever. I kinda hate that I need one at all. Mom thinks my dysphoria might get worse. I'd like to say with certainty that it won't, but look at how bad it's gotten in only a year! What else can it possibly take?! I've given up almost everything already! I'm a reader! I've read my whole life! I've consumed entire books in a day for my whole life! Now I can't get books from the library anymore. I can't read books at all. It's devastating. So, even though I really wish I could say I didn't need one, I think I might. What can they do though? They can't make it go away. But I'll do anything to make this better. We haven't really looked into it yet. (Where do I go for a counselor for this kind of thing? How do I find one? Does any ole counselor work? I don't know where to start!! Help please.)

 

I've never heard of genital nullification before, but I will definitely be looking into it. I really want a hysterectomy or tubial ligation, but I highly doubt they'd allow either procedure in an 18 year old. I might "regret" it or I might decide I "want kids later in life." No I won't. I promise. So I'll look into it, but I don't rate my chances very high. But again, where do I go to actually talk to someone about having these things done? Do I talk to a normal gynecologist? 

 

Thank you so much for your help @Heart! It really did help me out. You've given me some hope!

[Heart]

@AvengelAzrael: As far as hating that you "need" one at all, my only advice is to remember that you're not visiting a therapist because you "need to". You probably won't die from not visiting a therapist. You're visiting a therapist because you want to feel better and be able to live a better life. It's like going to the gym that way! No one will die in the near future because they don't go to the gym. But it makes them more fit, and able to enjoy things like hikes more (if that's your thing). So in that sense, it can lengthen your life and make it more enjoyable. So can therapy.

 

And, for what it's worth, most people I know well have done therapy at some point for something. Before I went to a counsellor, I thought I was the last one to ever benefit from it. And yet, it helped so much more than I ever could have imagined. I didn't make it through a single full session without crying, until the very last one. That's how much pain I had stored up and bottled up. It had gotten so bad that I hadn't even known it was still there until we dug it all up. And ultimately, I probably wouldn't've died without that, but gosh darned it all did it make life so much more worth living!!

 

I don't know how therapy there works for you (I'm Canadian). For me, I was able to take advantage of a program in my university where student therapists doing practicums will counsel other students, and it's all covered under my student health plan, with no deductible. My particular therapist was just finishing her PhD, and she was writing up her dissertation while counselling me. So, in my case, I went over there after my doctor suggested that I should try it, and I asked to book an appointment. I went to see one lady, who did my "intake" appointment, and said that she looked forward to working with me but that she would show my case to the supervisor who would then decide if we were a good fit. It turns out we must not have been, since I eventually got placed with another woman, the one I talked about a second ago.

 

So for me, at least, I gave my story and told them what I wanted help with, and then they paired me up with someone who they thought would be a good fit. It worked out really well. I know others, who don't have access to such a program, will look up local therapists and read their bios to try and find a good fit themselves. That seems to work pretty well too. No matter what though, remember that if you end up feeling like you're butting heads and not getting anywhere, it's ok to ask to try talking to a different person. Personalities sometimes just clash, and what's important is getting the care you deserve. Therapists are trained to be professional, so try not to worry that you're hurting their feelings or anything; they understand the importance of a good fit.

 

That's all the experience I really have to share about the whole process, except to say that the whole reason I was seeing a therapist was to talk about my uterus. Mine causes me debilitating pain, and I wanted it out too. But doctors kept telling me that the pain would go away on it's own, that period cramps are normal, and to just go away and come back in ten years. Seriously, they told me this for over a dozen years before I ended up in an ER and someone believed me when I said I was in pain. So, I had developed quite the distrust of doctors (not that they're bad people, I just couldn't navigate the system and communicate properly, so I got bad luck I suppose). I worked with the therapist to basically get coaching on how to talk to doctors. We made scripts that I would read from in my visits to doctors, we brainstormed possible things the doctor might say and how I could react so as to push my own agenda (of convincing them that my pain was real and getting help with the very real pain). We also talked about how I could insist that I wanted to consider a hysterectomy, and how to handle the doctors telling me that I "might change my mind" etc.

 

Now, granted, I had been struggling with this for over a dozen years, which means I was already about 24 when asking for a hysterectomy. So I will have had a different experience than you will. So I can't help you with the specifics, but I can say that with my therapist's help, I was able to convince the doctor to send me to a gynaecologist to ask about a hysterectomy. And perhaps part of it too was simply that my doctor then knew that I was talking to a therapist. So she knew that I had talked out the consequences of sterilization with someone, it wasn't just a whim. So, in a way, talking to a therapist, even if the therapist hadn't helped me really at all, was still helpful in the grand scheme of things. It might also help if you want genital nullification surgery too; as much as I hate to admit it, the medical system often wants more "proof" that you want it, and wanting to "go the whole way" may help. It shouldn't be that way, but sometimes it is.

 

(Having said that, please don't anyone feel like they have to do genital nullification surgery in order for their other desires to be "legitimate". Everyone's transition is their own.)

 

@Hadley167: Have you ever considered a bikini? Not necessarily for wearing outside, but just in the bath, for a relaxing bubble bath. You could still wear it while shaving legs. I'm not going to lie.... I've done that to help when I really need to shower, but just can't stand the downstairs dysphoria. And I'm sorry it intruded on your "me time" like that. *hugs*

[butterflydreams]

2 minutes ago, Heart said:

@Hadley167: Have you ever considered a bikini? Not necessarily for wearing outside, but just in the bath, for a relaxing bubble bath. You could still wear it while shaving legs. I'm not going to lie.... I've done that to help when I really need to shower, but just can't stand the downstairs dysphoria. And I'm sorry it intruded on your "me time" like that. *hugs*

I hadn't considered that. I like the idea though, and I might try it. My big concern though is that that kind of style tends to not work...because...*ahem*

Spoiler

things don't fit right in that style. Things will be popping out. That is almost worse just imagining it.

 

Honestly, I'm realizing more and more that everything else aside, there are two things down there that need to fucking go. The rest is a much larger issue I'm not sure how to deal with yet, but those two pieces need to be gone. That's extremely clear to me. But even that feels like an insurmountable challenge. From what I understand it's almost or even often an outpatient procedure. But it's still scary, for the procedure itself, and for what it will mean going forward. If you can believe it, I still hang on to this "safety net" that, "well, if you want to bail, you can, and your body still has all the parts (albeit reduced in their efficacy) necessary to go back to being a guy." After this procedure, that would not really be there anymore. One way or another, I'd need to be on something for life.

 

I don't know. Maybe this is the same as the name change, and eventually, I'll just get there. There's no denying that it's so painful in the meantime.

Thanks for the hugs. I think it's good that I'm trying to give myself these times, and being aware and cognizant of what issues are going to come up, and that those things don't make me bad, and they don't mean I can't be ok. That I'm trying to look for ways to help myself be better is a huge sign, because it means I believe I can be better at all.

[ChillaKilla]

I hate my thighs. More specifically how my leg bones curve outward in that dead-giveaway shape. I'm looking at pictures of cis guys with big/curvy thighs and it makes me feel a bit better. If I bulked up my calves it might help a bit...

[Heart]

22 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

I hadn't considered that. I like the idea though, and I might try it. My big concern though is that that kind of style tends to not work...because...*ahem*

  Hide contents

things don't fit right in that style. Things will be popping out. That is almost worse just imagining it.

 

Honestly, I'm realizing more and more that everything else aside, there are two things down there that need to fucking go. The rest is a much larger issue I'm not sure how to deal with yet, but those two pieces need to be gone. That's extremely clear to me. But even that feels like an insurmountable challenge. From what I understand it's almost or even often an outpatient procedure. But it's still scary, for the procedure itself, and for what it will mean going forward. If you can believe it, I still hang on to this "safety net" that, "well, if you want to bail, you can, and your body still has all the parts (albeit reduced in their efficacy) necessary to go back to being a guy." After this procedure, that would not really be there anymore. One way or another, I'd need to be on something for life.

 

I don't know. Maybe this is the same as the name change, and eventually, I'll just get there. There's no denying that it's so painful in the meantime.

Thanks for the hugs. I think it's good that I'm trying to give myself these times, and being aware and cognizant of what issues are going to come up, and that those things don't make me bad, and they don't mean I can't be ok. That I'm trying to look for ways to help myself be better is a huge sign, because it means I believe I can be better at all.

 

For what it's worth, my bikini bottoms aren't the typical *ahem* skimpy ones. They basically look like really short shorts, like booty shorts, but made of swimsuit material. I certainly don't have the confidence to walk around in a stringy bikini, no matter what my gender or dysphoria status! But my point being, if you look around, there might be bikini bottoms that look really feminine, but that cover a bit more up and maybe have a better chance of "holding it all in". After all, this isn't for anyone else but you. Some examples of what I'm talking about are in the spoilers, they can be really cute and feminine

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

As for the point of no return thoughts... I get you. Maybe it's my fluidity talking, but I am SUPER ALWAYS AWARE of what lines I can't cross lest there be a chance of it being permanent. It really sucks from my perspective, because I feel like if I cross one of those lines, there will always be times when I am glad I did and other times when I hate the new body bit as much I hate not having it when I'm in the other mode. As confusing as that just came out, I get being scared about some changes. Where the line is for me is different than it is for you, and it's probably different for you now than it was at different points in the past, and all for different reasons. But there's a line somewhere, and I respect that. I really do think that line deserves respect.

 

Having said that, you're the biggest advocate for "you do you" in the speed of transition area. Remember how you always used to say that you would do whatever made you feel good *right now*, and just do it at *your* pace? I think that's great advice. You're not ready for xyz thing? Then don't do it. If you become ready at some point, then do it.

 

I know that you'll be in pain in some ways in the meantime. It sucks. It really sucks that sometimes you have to wait in pain for something to happen for you to be able to help yourself. Maybe it's for the pain to build up to a point of no return where you just go for it. Maybe it's waiting for the right convenient time in life. Maybe it's waiting until other areas of your transition line up and make it feel like the right time. Maybe it's just waiting, and not knowing what you're waiting for or if it'll ever come. That's all fine. And I'm sorry you have to live with the pain in the meantime *hugs*.

[ChillaKilla]

So my curvy legs give me big dysphoria. I'm really not that feminine in appearance (thank genetics for broad shoulders and back muscles!) but the shape of the bones is just a dead giveaway. I know I've complained in this thread before about them. Lately, however, I've been looking at pictures of the members of a band I saw in concert last week and I noticed one of them has super pronounced thighs and hips. Like, they have the visible lateral curve and everything. Just seeing those pictures makes me feel 1000x better because he is a cis man with a very similar body type to me (or will be, when testosterone's effects become more pronounced). Here's a few pictures in question:

 

 

 

 

 

It's the little things (or big, in his and my case )

[butterflydreams]

On 4/11/2017 at 5:17 PM, Heart said:

For what it's worth, my bikini bottoms aren't the typical *ahem* skimpy ones. They basically look like really short shorts, like booty shorts, but made of swimsuit material. I certainly don't have the confidence to walk around in a stringy bikini, no matter what my gender or dysphoria status! But my point being, if you look around, there might be bikini bottoms that look really feminine, but that cover a bit more up and maybe have a better chance of "holding it all in". After all, this isn't for anyone else but you. Some examples of what I'm talking about are in the spoilers, they can be really cute and feminine

Oh, I completely misunderstood what you were suggesting. The last one at the bottom there, I actually have a pair of those, pretty much exactly. I even wore them swimming at a state park this past summer. I guess I could use them in the bath as well.

 

On 4/11/2017 at 5:17 PM, Heart said:

As for the point of no return thoughts... I get you. Maybe it's my fluidity talking, but I am SUPER ALWAYS AWARE of what lines I can't cross lest there be a chance of it being permanent. It really sucks from my perspective, because I feel like if I cross one of those lines, there will always be times when I am glad I did and other times when I hate the new body bit as much I hate not having it when I'm in the other mode. As confusing as that just came out, I get being scared about some changes. Where the line is for me is different than it is for you, and it's probably different for you now than it was at different points in the past, and all for different reasons. But there's a line somewhere, and I respect that. I really do think that line deserves respect.

 Oh Heart...I'm so sorry you struggle with that line as well, especially considering how you feel about yourself. *hugs*

 

On 4/11/2017 at 5:17 PM, Heart said:

I know that you'll be in pain in some ways in the meantime. It sucks. It really sucks that sometimes you have to wait in pain for something to happen for you to be able to help yourself. Maybe it's for the pain to build up to a point of no return where you just go for it. Maybe it's waiting for the right convenient time in life. Maybe it's waiting until other areas of your transition line up and make it feel like the right time. Maybe it's just waiting, and not knowing what you're waiting for or if it'll ever come. That's all fine. And I'm sorry you have to live with the pain in the meantime *hugs*.

I appreciate the acknowledgement that yes, this will be painful in the meantime. I think hearing that from someone else helps me beat myself up less about it. I'm already hurting. No sense in beating myself up about the situation. No one ever told me it was ok for this to hurt...so it's something I'm trying to let exist now. So thank you for just telling me it's ok to hurt right now