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Heart

Different Dysphorias

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butterflydreams

So I thought of another good...let's call it manifestation of dysphoria today.

My brother is 4 years younger than me, but we're about the same height (he's maybe an inch or two taller). He has dirty blonde hair, and mine is dark brown. He does the facial hair thing a lot, I never do. He's pretty skinny, but very muscular (he does a lot of outdoor stuff), and while I'm in fine shape, I'm a bit more stocky.

Despite all these glaring differences, whenever I hang out with him, and we run into his friends, who were meeting me for the first time, their first comment was "omg you look so much alike!" This always hurt me so much. Not because I don't like my brother. He's a good looking dude. His choice in facial hairstyles sometimes misses the mark in my humble opinion, but otherwise, pretty attractive. And we're siblings. Why wouldn't we look alike? From my perspective, he's very good at being a guy. He looks like a guy. Being a guy comes very naturally to him. So by saying we look alike, makes me feel like people are perceiving me that way, and they're saying it! It just made me feel really down every time it happened :(

The lighter side of this was a few years ago, I decided to see if I could actually grow a beard. I didn't shave for a few months. I felt like complete shit every day, but I was like, no, let's let it grow and see if it looks good. At some point, I met up with my dad to go hiking. He hadn't seen me in a while, so when I got there, he saw the proto-beard and the first thing he said was, "heh, you look just like your brother." I shaved it off the very next day.

So kind of specific, but I thought that was an interesting manifestation of dysphoric feelings. Looking back on them now, it's very clear what was going on.

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littlepersonparadox

Nerdperson: You're not the only one to try to game there penguin as it were without having a clue as to what/when/how long the period lasts. I don't often get bottom dysphoria like i said but 9/10 my period gives me gender confusion & dysphoria when i'm on it and aware of it. Many times for years and still ongoing i'll be completely forgetful of when it starts and be confused as to if i'm late or not. I genuinely have been multiple times a semester where i'll forget that i'm on my period completely on the last couple days and then be surprised when i go to the bathroom to and see it. Even then i'll still try to avoid it by that stage and be all "its a tiny amount of blood just a mark and it's already dirty nothing will show."

My penguin works a bit odd for me. On my last couple days I won't start bleeding till mid-day and i'll wont bleed for at least one night before finishing. But i'll sometimes forget that and so the next day my subconscious/dysphoria will make me forget/avoid/ think i get away with it and not put one in.

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Reptillian

There's something that needs to be considered. For some people, feelings do not define their identity, and hence sometimes, dysphoria can exist even in cisgender individuals. There's also transgender individuals that rarely feel dysphoria, and still strongly identify as the other gender.

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nerdperson777

Hmmm...possibly a TMI post. Spoiler activated.

So I hid my dysphoria in my closet instead of my trash can. I never put them in the bathroom trash because I don't want to see them every time I use it. I also have clothes hanging in my closet. It's been a week. My closet smells and my friend who I'm rooming with noticed it. It smells like my sweaty knee brace even though I washed it, which I told her. But I have a feeling that the smell might be coming from the dysphoria. I'm trying to find the right time to throw it out because I don't want anyone to see it, no matter how "natural" a process it is.

The extents I take for something I hate so much.

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Heart

Hmmm...possibly a TMI post. Spoiler activated.

So I hid my dysphoria in my closet instead of my trash can. I never put them in the bathroom trash because I don't want to see them every time I use it. I also have clothes hanging in my closet. It's been a week. My closet smells and my friend who I'm rooming with noticed it. It smells like my sweaty knee brace even though I washed it, which I told her. But I have a feeling that the smell might be coming from the dysphoria. I'm trying to find the right time to throw it out because I don't want anyone to see it, no matter how "natural" a process it is.

The extents I take for something I hate so much.

That really sucks. Can you maybe put it in a bag and throw it in a garbage bin directly, instead of your trash bin? Or maybe a big garbage bin behind a restaurant?

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nerdperson777

Well, I smelled my blanket and that's where that smell is coming from, I think. I still have to throw those away but idk what to do with this smelly blanket. It's 2AM and I rather not be walking outside right now.

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Emery.

These is not much left to say. Everything seems to be covered already.

I can throw in that I'm a bit hesitant calling my discomfort with gender dysphoria, because it doesn't result from my gender identity, and doesn't touch the most common problem of body dysphoria at all. I'm uncomfortable to be "in" something called the feminine gender role, because it is simply against my personality. I don't mind being called whatever, but girly treatment drives me mad, especially when I can't act out my feelings. A lot of shame for not fitting in on one hand, on the other a lot of anger-sadness kind of ever-transforming feeling, and loneliness-emptiness-yearning-numbness.

That Mulan song is kind of creepy :blink::wacko: Did the writer read my miserable teenage stories?
The motif of transformation was all over there. And FtM crosdressing. Androgyny.

And, well, it all began at puberty. Little girls are simply allowed more. Adult girls not so much.

And numbing this discomfort. Dissociation. Getting used to - "maybe everyone is like that? " Anyhow, you go shopping alone, buy what you want, take it on, see yourelf in the mirror and you're like "HELLO ME! HEY THIS IS ME! (strong emotional connection to the reflection) Wait, what the hell...?! So it wasn't me? What? So where have I been and who was that creature, this human shell? So this is what this Matrix-like sensation meant? :wacko:" - noticing afterwards.

TMI: simply suffering

Basically: a persistent feeling of emptiness and craving, coming supposedly from nowhere. Like slow, but powerful and heavy flow of energy through the core of the soul, pushing the dams, flowing out sometimes with a wave taking on the form of anger or deep sadness, craving for something that isn't there. Like an ancient, longing song with deep drums. Like lots of energy, but of a sad, deprived, dark being. That screams over and over again, locked somewhere, hidden. So when I block out that much of life energy, I'm left like a flat tyre the energy breaks the dam sometimes.



But don't worry. I don't always do or feel like that. ;) And I'm slowly getting better. :)

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gale harper

I grew up with a majority of my family being male, so I was fairly masculine for the first 19 years if my life, and puberty brought my discomfort (which is what I used to refer to it as, because I didn't know that dysphoria was a thing) with my boobs and wide hips. When my chest became too big to hide under my loose school uniform shirt, I hated it- it felt wrong having them and eventually my mom noticed and took me bra shopping despite how much I wanted to will then away. I just wanted a neutral body- which I seem to have gotten the opposite of, with my curvy figure. I'm really considering getting top surgery in the future

It wasn't until I was 20 that I suddenly became feminine- I started dressing and generally acting more so. It was earlier this year that I found out I was still also more masculine and not feeling like any gender, sometimes. I didn't even know bigender was a thing until then.

When I figured that out, I cut my hair shorter (letting it grow too long gives me dysphoria now ) for when I feel masculine, and started wearing a wig on feminine days. My general dysphoria now is because I'm working in a place that is extremely anti-lgbt, so I can't present the way that I feel; no binder, wig, more masculine clothes, and forget pronouns.

Pronouns and my preferred name are also not going to be respected by family because of what I've heard from them, despite my coming out about it. "Don't expect up to call you a different name though".

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Calligraphette_Coe

"Dysphoria, how doth thou wound me? Let me count the ways....."

That's what it feels like to me at times. To say more would feel too much like that business phrase I don't particularly like, "Opening the kimono."

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Chardog

The social dysphoria thing along the lines of things I didn't notice when I was assuming the AFAB default- guys being "gentlemanly". I'm not talking about guys I have a personal relationship with, I'm talking about the guys in the office I don't regularly interact with. Stop saying hello to me and asking me how I'm doing. If I were male, not "office Barbie", you wouldn't say a damn thing to me. It pisses me off almost every day, but I smile my way through it.. Grrr.

And no, I don't need your help carrying a 50lb box in 5 inch heels.. If I needed help I'd ask, but instead somewhere between the heels and the boobs you assume I'm either weak or helpless..

The fact I have the boobs doesn't bother me.. The fact that others use them to define my existence does. And then you can't wrap your head around why how I think and act doesn't fit the picture of how you think I'm supposed to be (that's actually a bigger problem with most other females than males).

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genderirrelevant

Physical dysphoria - I've always hated hated hated having breasts. They've had nothing but a negative impact on my life. No sensation that wasn't uncomfortable, icky, or annoying. they will be gone in a month. Good riddance. I wish I'd gotten rid of them decades ago but I didn't realize I could get it done. I hate the lower body curves too but it's not quite as bad as on top.

Social dysphoria - this has gotten much worse in the last few years but really each decade has been harder than the one before. I think this is more related to my avoidance personality than gender issues. I interpret almost everything as rejection or indifference so I avoid social interactions. I am A in every way possible: asexual, aromantic, agender, asocial, avoidant. I've given up on finding a simpatico S.O.

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Heart

Question: Does anyone ever feel jealous of others' transitions?

I feel like a terrible person for admitting it, but I feel just a little resentment towards people who make it work out. I mean, it's only a drop in the ocean of happiness I hold for them. Especially when it's someone I know, either through here or in real life. Like, seriously, when I'm feeling down for literally any other reason except dysphoria, one of my favourite pick-me-ups is to come here and read the latest in all my friendly gender people's transitions. Few things make me so happy.

But when I'm hit with a wave of dysphoria, nothing could make it worse than hearing or reading about other people's success in transition. There's a part of me that is frustrated that I can't find a way to transition to be comfortable in my body and my life, as I see it right now...

Maybe one day, my genderfluidity will fall into more one gender than any other, and I can transition or not and be more comfortable. But for now... gah. I feel like a bad person even admitting that I'm jealous sometimes, though it's all just a human emotion :(

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littlepersonparadox

Question: Does anyone ever feel jealous of others' transitions?

I feel like a terrible person for admitting it, but I feel just a little resentment towards people who make it work out. I mean, it's only a drop in the ocean of happiness I hold for them. Especially when it's someone I know, either through here or in real life. Like, seriously, when I'm feeling down for literally any other reason except dysphoria, one of my favourite pick-me-ups is to come here and read the latest in all my friendly gender people's transitions. Few things make me so happy.

But when I'm hit with a wave of dysphoria, nothing could make it worse than hearing or reading about other people's success in transition. There's a part of me that is frustrated that I can't find a way to transition to be comfortable in my body and my life, as I see it right now...

Maybe one day, my genderfluidity will fall into more one gender than any other, and I can transition or not and be more comfortable. But for now... gah. I feel like a bad person even admitting that I'm jealous sometimes, though it's all just a human emotion :(

I think a lot of us do get jelous. I know i was when i found out a MTF friend of mine had a complete transition already. Completely natural too for her upper body and she got it within 2-3 years. Everyone else in our GSA who's trans is either still figuring out what we want or waiting for approval of some kind. Yet she did a full transition in HIGH SCHOOL. Some other people actually said "I'm so jealous of you". Its great that she is already living as she needs too and were happy for her but we all know our transitions are probably not going to be as quick. Jealousy is a ugly emotion but it happens.

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Anthracite_Impreza

Question: Does anyone ever feel jealous of others' transitions?

I feel like a terrible person for admitting it, but I feel just a little resentment towards people who make it work out. I mean, it's only a drop in the ocean of happiness I hold for them. Especially when it's someone I know, either through here or in real life. Like, seriously, when I'm feeling down for literally any other reason except dysphoria, one of my favourite pick-me-ups is to come here and read the latest in all my friendly gender people's transitions. Few things make me so happy.

But when I'm hit with a wave of dysphoria, nothing could make it worse than hearing or reading about other people's success in transition. There's a part of me that is frustrated that I can't find a way to transition to be comfortable in my body and my life, as I see it right now...

Maybe one day, my genderfluidity will fall into more one gender than any other, and I can transition or not and be more comfortable. But for now... gah. I feel like a bad person even admitting that I'm jealous sometimes, though it's all just a human emotion :(

Yes, but mainly because I'm too much of a wimp to actually go through with it :/ I'm a very jealous person, but luckily I'm excellent at hiding it.

Don't feel bad, you're only human! As long as you keep it under control that's all that matters :)

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Calligraphette_Coe

Question: Does anyone ever feel jealous of others' transitions?

I feel like a terrible person for admitting it, but I feel just a little resentment towards people who make it work out. I mean, it's only a drop in the ocean of happiness I hold for them. Especially when it's someone I know, either through here or in real life. Like, seriously, when I'm feeling down for literally any other reason except dysphoria, one of my favourite pick-me-ups is to come here and read the latest in all my friendly gender people's transitions. Few things make me so happy.

But when I'm hit with a wave of dysphoria, nothing could make it worse than hearing or reading about other people's success in transition. There's a part of me that is frustrated that I can't find a way to transition to be comfortable in my body and my life, as I see it right now...

Maybe one day, my genderfluidity will fall into more one gender than any other, and I can transition or not and be more comfortable. But for now... gah. I feel like a bad person even admitting that I'm jealous sometimes, though it's all just a human emotion :(

You're not a bad person for feeling it, Heart. You're only human, and as a talented one, you can find a way to turn that small bit of resentment into spun gold. You're doing it here, but being supportive, even in the face of what you might feel is your own inadequacy.

It's probably more envy than jealousy, because envy is when you desire something you don't have that you feel can make you feel a happiness that you've yet to attain. I know that's the way it was for me.... I always heard it said, "You pass sooo well, you'll have an easy transition."

And then my body fell apart on me, and it seemed the only transition I was ever going to get was from life to death. But, it took all my energy just to be able to get up and walk again and to have my brain rewire itself. There was just no room for the envy any more. It had to go. I did have the feeling of ' if only this bitter potion could be taken from my lips'.

One day I was very much dumbstruck by reading Milton's poem On His Blindness. In it were these, for me, immortal words:

They also serve who only stand and wait.

My interpretation of that is that, despite our abilities and circumstances, beyond our fates and desires, and past our disabilities we can conquer our feelings and be of worth to others. That just because we don't transition in body, that we can transition to our fondest selves in the silent and humble abode of our feelings and minds. That we are no inadequate, we have the ability to make our places in the communities we most feel ourselves part thereof.

Nothing makes you feel more alive than belonging. And you, my dear friend, belong here! The space is far better with you here than without.

Milton's words:

When I consider how my light is spent

Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,

And that one Talent which is death to hide

Lodged with me useless, though my soul more bent

To serve therewith my Maker, and present

My true account, lest He returning chide,

"Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?"

I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent

That murmur, soon replies, "God doth not need

Either man's work or his own gifts. Who best

Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state

Is kingly: thousands at his bidding speed,

And post o'er land and ocean without rest;

They also serve who only stand and wait.

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butterflydreams

Question: Does anyone ever feel jealous of others' transitions?

Yes and no. A major component of me even considering transition at all has been seeing that others are doing it. Others who aren't all that different from me, and others who are. There are a million ways to do it. What's a million and one?

At the same time, sometimes seeing those exact same others makes me feel like I could never do what they've done. How could silly little me do that? They must know all kinds of things I don't. They must be feeling things I don't. I guess maybe this isn't jealousy, but maybe discouragement? Sadness?

But Heart, I don't think you're a bad person at all for feeling this way. I totally get it. And it's not like you're out there all, "if I can't transition...no one can! Mwahahahaha <lightning>". I have a belief, albeit based on nothing but faith, that when it comes to bigender or genderfluid people, some kind of peace will eventually be found. I really do believe that. Maybe that peace is that your fluidity settles. Maybe that peace is you figure out how to make your fluidity work for you.

The transition narrative/process doesn't work for you right now, but it's the loudest one out there. So it makes complete sense you'd look at it and feel jealous. "This is working for all of them, why not me?" Maybe we just need to have some kind of other process out there for genderfluid people that hasn't yet been established.

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Heart

Hadley, Zen, Anthracite, Paradox... You all make me speechless, you know that? I cannot describe how warm and fuzzy I am inside.

I know that I do my absolute bestest always to make the world a better place, and I know that no matter how much envy I feel, I would never stand in the way of another's transition. Because, deep down inside, I know that I live vicariously through every person that tells me about their transition and gifts me with that happiness of knowing that someone is becoming themselves. If anything, I would make significant personal sacrifices if it would help another person transition to the body that makes them feel most at home, because I know what it's like to not have that and if I can ever do anything to help another achieve the peace of comfort, then I will without question or hesitation. I think you're right on so many accounts, Zen, and envy is a much better term.

But still sometimes I need a little reassurance that what I'm feeling is ok. And you guys have provided me with overwhelming amounts of support and warmth. Thank you.

Hadley, I think you are on to something. Whether my fluidity settles down into one gender, or at least less of a fluctuation, or maybe stays as it is, then either way this is me. I live it 24/7, and no doubt I will find ways to be at peace. I just have to keep looking :) Zen is a very good role model for me, to be honest; Zen, you've shown me more than anyone else what it is to be happy in the body you're given, and how one can be amazingly oneself given the situation one is in. You have a gift with words, and a gift with life.

And Hadley, your transition gives me light. It reminds me that I need to just work towards happiness and comfort, but that those things aren't always conventional and don't always need names. You remind me, with all your posts and doubts, that not all narratives are the main one, and not all challenges are spoken of or admitted to even in main-stream narratives.

Anthracite, thank you for the reminder. I have a double-standard often with myself; I never advocate thought-policing, as I take much the same view as you. One cannot help what one thinks or feels, but one can control one's actions and do good with it. As long as I fuel my good-doing, instead of descending into evil-doing, then I am doing well and good :) I need to be reminded every once in a while to apply those standards to myself as well, instead of blaming myself for thoughts that I would tell others are all fine and dandy so long as they result in good deeds.

Paradox, thank you for the quick and understanding response. It's good to not feel alone.

For all of you, and my whole gender community here, <3

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Reptillian

Heart, you forgot my comment, or maybe... Meh.

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aduain.

I'm jealous of people who look androgynous.

I have a huge physical dysphoria, it was actually the main subject in my therapy. I feel extremely ugly.

I avoid looking at my naked body because it makes me cry. In summer I never wear short clothes, no matter how warm it is.

My greatest wish is to look completely androgynous, but no matter what I try, my biological gender is always overly visible due to my build.

An androgynous appearance is my ideal aesthetic and I'm desperate because I can never accomplish that.

I don't even give a damn what I look like to others, I just want to like myself.

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butterflydreams

I need to be reminded every once in a while to apply those standards to myself as well, instead of blaming myself for thoughts that I would tell others are all fine and dandy so long as they result in good deeds.

I don't know if it's a common personality trait, but it's one I certainly share. You're in good company. I mean, you know me here, I do my absolute best to be the kind welcoming person that people need. I can't conceive of being anything else. But when it comes to handling the same types of things internally within myself? Let's just say I'd be banned from AVEN pretty fast if I was that way with others here.

And you know what, to bring this back around to dysphoria (because I'm that good ;))...in one of the videos I was watching by a young transwoman my age, she had a very pertinent line that resonated with me far more than anything else she said. Basically that throughout her life, she put others' needs and other's happiness in front of her own. Her life and her happiness weren't worth the same as others and those she cared about. Accepting that she was trans lifted that. Suddenly she was much more in harmony with her own value as a person. I swear, if I hadn't been listening to it at work, I would've broken down in tears right there...

I don't know if feeling that you're worth less, and that you don't matter as much is necessarily a product of dysphoria. It certainly seems like it would have a much easier "in" if dysphoria were present though. It's such a logical progression to go from, "I really dislike this body, this person that I am, and seemingly have to be in the world." to "If that's the case, then I really don't matter. Why should I show respect and compassion and care to someone I don't care about?" Those things go together like peanut butter and jelly.

I think the reason her video resonated so much with me was because I had already sort of arrived at a similar understanding. Months prior, when I sat down and wrote out what I imagined my future as Hadley would look like, I felt like life was worth living. That person had intrinsic value. Why did imagining my future self as female shift my feelings? I have no idea. It just did. I wanted to show that future self compassion and care and understanding and love...just because. Things I always found extremely difficult to consistently show myself over the years. Maybe show myself compassion for a day or two here and there, but then back to business as usual of just mentally, emotionally and even physically pummeling myself because I didn't deserve care from myself. Don't even get me started on whether or not I felt I deserved it from others.

I know this is getting long, but I want to round out this thought. It's a sharp and upsetting contrast to become aware of. It's not something I've seen discussed too often either. I know there's one person here, maybe a second, who I think would agree that they had a shift in how they felt they deserved to be treated by themselves. But aside from them, and that one transwoman on youtube, I haven't seen much. Honestly, it's no surprise. It's hard to even write about it here now. Knowing what I know now. Knowing that I wasn't treating myself well for so, so many years. Shifting, and forgiving oneself for that is a long road.

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noparlpf

I'm cis but sometimes I get some physical genital-related dysphoria that sounds kind of like what some trans people I know describe. It's generally triggered by my sexuality kicking in but occasionally it just happens on its own. Like I'll wake up and go to take my shower and just be like "no this shouldn't be here, ew."

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nerdperson777

Turning dysphoria thread into a happy thread. As Hadley said, just watching transitioning or transitioned trans* people on Youtube, sometimes gives you hope that one day you could achieve something like that. They might look very much as their desired gender, or not really passing, but they're farther along the route than some of us who haven't started.

I should sleep now, it's almost 3.

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Heart

There's something that needs to be considered. For some people, feelings do not define their identity, and hence sometimes, dysphoria can exist even in cisgender individuals. There's also transgender individuals that rarely feel dysphoria, and still strongly identify as the other gender.

I'm sorry Reptilian! Is this the comment you were referring to? I thought I had responded, but looking back I don't see my response. Sorry, it wasn't mean to be personal :(

When I had thought I had responded, I had meant to ask what kind of dysphoria cis people experience? It is hard to imagine a gender-related dysphoria, but I don't want to rule that out without asking. Or did you mean something other than gender-related dysphoria? I see easily how a cis person can experience literally any other kind of dysphoria, cis is not a free pass to be happy with your life ;)

I'm cis but sometimes I get some physical genital-related dysphoria that sounds kind of like what some trans people I know describe. It's generally triggered by my sexuality kicking in but occasionally it just happens on its own. Like I'll wake up and go to take my shower and just be like "no this shouldn't be here, ew."

Do you mean to say that you identify as cis, and yet sometimes don't feel comfortable with having genitals? That makes sense to me. As someone who is genital-repulsed, I don't think that necessarily has to be a gender thing. It often is, but I could see a fully cis person still being repulsed by genitals, so why not experience some of the same feelings towards them as others label as body dysphoria? Thank you for saying this, it opens my definitions up a bit.

Perhaps something like this is what Reptilian was talking about as well?

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noparlpf

I'm cis but sometimes I get some physical genital-related dysphoria that sounds kind of like what some trans people I know describe. It's generally triggered by my sexuality kicking in but occasionally it just happens on its own. Like I'll wake up and go to take my shower and just be like "no this shouldn't be here, ew."

Do you mean to say that you identify as cis, and yet sometimes don't feel comfortable with having genitals? That makes sense to me. As someone who is genital-repulsed, I don't think that necessarily has to be a gender thing. It often is, but I could see a fully cis person still being repulsed by genitals, so why not experience some of the same feelings towards them as others label as body dysphoria? Thank you for saying this, it opens my definitions up a bit.

Yeah, aside from that I'm comfortable with the rest of my male body (well, maybe not male-pattern baldness ;-; ) and I'm comfortable with being perceived as male. (There are aspects of masculinity in society that I'm not comfortable with and would rather not be associated with, but that's another matter.) I think my issue is primarily related to my sexuality because it mostly comes up when I'm feeling more demi than ace. My orientation is kind of contradictory and confusing so this is probably like, sex repulsion turned inwards. But whatever the root of it is it feels gross.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Sometimes, when Dysphoria seems like it's winning, I think of the Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear and paraphrase it for a source of strength against the clouds of dysphoria. So many trans people are voracious readers of sci-fi, so I'm betting many of you know the original litany from Dune.

"I must not despair.

Dysphoria is the mind-killer

It is the little death that brings total inconguence to the gender I know.

I will face my dysphoria.

I will permit it to pass through me and over me,

and as it passes, I will turn the inner eye to see its path away from me.

And when the dysphoria passes, only I will remain in my known gender,

Free from the despair and doubt it visited upon me."

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andreas1033

I wouldn't say i was confused by my gender. Just that i never ever believed i was male, and i never related to things males do.

I always thought of myself as androgynous, and that means equally male and female, ie masculine and feminine. I have no interest in what others believe. Thats me, and no one can tell me i am not that.

I am fine with being in a male body, but have no interest really in what my genitals are and i have no interest in changing them, as i do not really care about my genitals, as i am staying a virgin for life, and what genitals i was born with does not interest me.

So i am asexual, and always has been. No envioronmental aspects changed who i am, i knew at around 13 i would not have no sex drive, and later i would call myself androgynous. Life just confirmed my calculations that i would be asexual.

I do not feel gender confused, i do not want to change gender. I am not interested personally in the fact i was born a male. I see masculine and feminine as energies, and we all have them to different amounts. No two people have exactly the same aspects to them, so having two genders really does not represent what peopel really are.

I am ok with there being two genders defined by what genitals your born with, but like i said, staying a virgin all your life, really means your genitals your born with does not matter.

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butterflydreams

I'm cis but sometimes I get some physical genital-related dysphoria that sounds kind of like what some trans people I know describe. It's generally triggered by my sexuality kicking in but occasionally it just happens on its own. Like I'll wake up and go to take my shower and just be like "no this shouldn't be here, ew."

Do you mean to say that you identify as cis, and yet sometimes don't feel comfortable with having genitals? That makes sense to me. As someone who is genital-repulsed, I don't think that necessarily has to be a gender thing. It often is, but I could see a fully cis person still being repulsed by genitals, so why not experience some of the same feelings towards them as others label as body dysphoria? Thank you for saying this, it opens my definitions up a bit.

Yeah, aside from that I'm comfortable with the rest of my male body (well, maybe not male-pattern baldness ;-; ) and I'm comfortable with being perceived as male. (There are aspects of masculinity in society that I'm not comfortable with and would rather not be associated with, but that's another matter.) I think my issue is primarily related to my sexuality because it mostly comes up when I'm feeling more demi than ace. My orientation is kind of contradictory and confusing so this is probably like, sex repulsion turned inwards. But whatever the root of it is it feels gross.

I think I have some understanding of what you're talking about here. There are a lot of different things in play when it comes to this stuff, so it can be hard to organize it and sort out what's coming from where. And weird things happen too. If you had asked me not that long ago, if I was comfortable being perceived as male, I would've probably shrugged and said sure, I guess. But in reality what I had done was severely limit the instances where I could be perceived as anything. Then a little *ping* I felt in the handful of times someone referred to me as "a man" or "gentleman" or even "sir" was a random fluke. I must've just been feeling down or depressed for some other reason that day.

FWIW, and I haven't done too much research into this, but I'm pretty sure there are dudes out there who, for whatever reason you want to call it, would prefer to have a vagina and all that. They're still happy being male everywhere else, it's just that one thing. Seems pretty weird, right? Which is why I think there isn't much discussion about it, or research, or much of anything. Like I said, I'm not too positive on it myself, but I think it is a thing.

Sometimes, when Dysphoria seems like it's winning, I think of the Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear and paraphrase it for a source of strength against the clouds of dysphoria. So many trans people are voracious readers of sci-fi, so I'm betting many of you know the original litany from Dune.

"I must not despair.

Dysphoria is the mind-killer

It is the little death that brings total inconguence to the gender I know.

I will face my dysphoria.

I will permit it to pass through me and over me,

and as it passes, I will turn the inner eye to see its path away from me.

And when the dysphoria passes, only I will remain in my known gender,

Free from the despair and doubt it visited upon me."

<3 Loved that part of the book. Who am I kidding, loved the book! I love your take on it here.

You know, looking back, I can't help but wonder if the reason I was so drawn to Paul in that scene was because of the idea that here was this dude, but he was special. Something about him was going to enable him to be one of the Bene Gesserit, a group of only women. And as she said, many men had tried to pass the initiation test and died. But here was this man, and he was different. He could be one of them. I like that.

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butterflydreams

I've got a question for people here.

Do you ever feel like you don't own your own body? Like you don't have the right to do what you want to/with it?

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KRae

I've got a question for people here.

Do you ever feel like you don't own your own body? Like you don't have the right to do what you want to/with it?

In a way - it comes from how I was raised, unfortunately. I find small, discreet steps helpful in counteracting that feeling - drawing on myself is a personal favorite.

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Jockey

OK so first what I am:

Social history of queer childhood, exclusively male adulthood.

Born with virilizing disorder and ovaries. Experienced slightly precocious and significantly abnormal female puberty. Testosterone levels intermediate between male and female ranges until taking testosterone starting at age 19.

Current body is below normal range for male and female size, athletic.

Gendered traits include traits very unusual for females in terms of masculinity and traits very unusual for males in terms of femininity.

Gender identity: male.

Also: autistic.

As a child and teen, I experienced a profound sense of disconnect and distress under the following gendered situations:

- When my gender was challenged in either direction (being questioned or challenged with regards to my right to go to a particular bathroom, being told that I wasn't male or wasn't female - boy did that happen a lot, being asked if I was REALLY a whatever, or having other people argue about my sex/gender).

- Often, when I was referred to as a girl or had a fleeting image of myself as a girl; I did not recognize myself in pictures. If I did see a girl in a reflective surface and it was me, that was pretty awful.

- Intermittently, when hearing my voice.

- Intermittently, when viewing my breasts.

- In teen years, when hearing my former name.

- When trying to imagine myself as an adult.

As an adult I experience a sense of disconnect and distress under the following situations:

- Intermittently, when I notice feminine mannerisms in myself.

- Intermittently, when my childhood is referred to in gendered terms. I.e. when somebody asks me about my bar mitzvah.

- Intermittently, when men hit on me.

- When homophobic or transphobic remarks are made in my presence.

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