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Do you think that love is actually a made up concept?


Lord Jade Cross

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crazypimpernelfan

There are religions that profess love but personally i wouls steer clear of any religion as i find that many twist and turn things to fit their personal agenda.

... but ordinary people also do this with no religious base whatsoever as well.

precisely. The religions are made up by people. So whether in a singular or collective group, the idea is twisted to fit an agenda. Its not a true representation (if one exists) but a created interest.

Your explanation makes no sense at all. You say you don't know if there's an actual concept of love, but then proceed to dictate that religion isn't a "true representation" of it. How would you know that if you yourself don't know what love is? What if one religion DOES have the concept of love correct and you just don't see it yet BECAUSE you don't know what love is?

Seeing that this is mostly just turning into a debate, it seems like this would fit more in the "Hot Box" section rather than the "Asexual Relationships".

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Lord Jade Cross

There are religions that profess love but personally i wouls steer clear of any religion as i find that many twist and turn things to fit their personal agenda.

... but ordinary people also do this with no religious base whatsoever as well.
precisely. The religions are made up by people. So whether in a singular or collective group, the idea is twisted to fit an agenda. Its not a true representation (if one exists) but a created interest.
Your explanation makes no sense at all. You say you don't know if there's an actual concept of love, but then proceed to dictate that religion isn't a "true representation" of it. How would you know that if you yourself don't know what love is? What if one religion DOES have the concept of love correct and you just don't see it yet BECAUSE you don't know what love is?

Seeing that this is mostly just turning into a debate, it seems like this would fit more in the "Hot Box" section rather than the "Asexual Relationships".

Technically this has been a debate from the start.

Anyways, Im not sure why you're not seeing it if youre saying it yourself but I'll try explaining it again. Yes I do not have the "true" concept of love. In the same matter noone else, whether they are a singular individual or entity has the true concept of love. Saying that a religion MIGHT have it is the same as saying that everyone else has a possible concept of it and all of them are true and at the same time, all of them are false.

Love is so loosely used and can potentially be adapted to any situation, think family, friends, pets, romances, senses of obligation, religions, obsessions, insanity, just to name a few; that no one can realistically say that they know what love is because love is not defined by anything.

You can say for example "I love (insert object or person here) more than you do" but how would you measure it? In the same sense you can say that a person doesnt truly love (insert object or person here) because (insert argument here). But how can you realistically say this if you yourself dont have a true concept of love?

No matter how you look at it (well at least in my opinion) noone can ever truly know what love is or if it even exist because they cannot prove it. And if they cannot prove it, how can they be so sure it exists? It be like going to court and saying before the judge " Your honor I have no evidence to back up my statements but I swear to you on my life that this is true" at best, the judge will professionally say that he cannot take your word for it and at worst you can be laughed at out of the court room. In other scenarios you would be forfeting your life.

Or think of it like a romantic couple where one says "you dont love me because (insert argument here)" and the other says "I do love you but (insert argument here)". Which of the two is really right? The same can be applied for potentially any situation.

This is why to me, love is nothing more than a concept that we make up to suit our particular wants or needs, if we can loosely include them.

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Frigid Pink

Or think of it like a romantic couple where one says "you dont love me because (insert argument here)" and the other says "I do love you but (insert argument here)". Which of the two is really right? The same can be applied for potentially any situation.

I wouldn't necessarily say that someone who professes to love me (or someone else) doesn't love me (or them) and, instead, would most likely say that they don't love me (or them) well.

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No matter how you look at it (well at least in my opinion) noone can ever truly know what love is or if it even exist because they cannot prove it. And if they cannot prove it, how can they be so sure it exists? It be like going to court and saying before the judge " Your honor I have no evidence to back up my statements but I swear to you on my life that this is true" at best, the judge will professionally say that he cannot take your word for it and at worst you can be laughed at out of the court room. In other scenarios you would be forfeting your life.

There's two lines of thought regarding love:

1. Love is a feeling. It seems many people in romantic relationships rely on this type of love: "I feel love." Technically, it cannot be proven, but neither can sadness, happiness, or anger (everyone feels those emotions a little differently as well). You couldn't hold up emotions as a quantifiable proof, just as part of a personal testament if anything. An individual can't correctly speak for anyone else's feelings - the example, where one cannot say "I love X more than you." If they are just referring to a feeling, then they cannot correctly speak for the other person. You cannot say whether another person does or doesn't feel love - if you aren't them, there's way to know their feelings.

1. Love is an action. My favorite definition because love is a verb. The action of love is vast but not un-quantifable. Helping someone, sharing with someone, taking care of someone, are all ways to show love. Yes, those things could be done without love, so you would have to establish intent. I would say an action of love is an action done because a person truly wants the best for that person (or animal)

I think that many people when they think of love, they try to quantify it as this biggest, greatest action-feeling in existence, and that's not how I see real love at all. Caring for someone is loving someone. That doesn't have to a big action, if anything. I see a bird in the sky and think "I wish you the best possible life in existence" - I don't captured the bird, I let it be free, because that's what I see as best for that person. I am loving that bird, and there's no other single-word in the English language that could describe that.

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Frigid Pink

I see a bird in the sky and think "I wish you the best possible life in existence" - I don't captured the bird, I let it be free, because that's what I see as best for that person. I am loving that bird, and there's no other single-word in the English language that could describe that.

Yes, I relate to this as I feel love for creatures and animals, even when I don't know them. I've rescued a couple of injured birds (a robin and a sparrow) and thought "I love you" when I had to say goodbye to them at the animal emergency center.

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Lord Jade Cross

No matter how you look at it (well at least in my opinion) noone can ever truly know what love is or if it even exist because they cannot prove it. And if they cannot prove it, how can they be so sure it exists? It be like going to court and saying before the judge " Your honor I have no evidence to back up my statements but I swear to you on my life that this is true" at best, the judge will professionally say that he cannot take your word for it and at worst you can be laughed at out of the court room. In other scenarios you would be forfeting your life.

There's two lines of thought regarding love:

1. Love is a feeling. It seems many people in romantic relationships rely on this type of love: "I feel love." Technically, it cannot be proven, but neither can sadness, happiness, or anger (everyone feels those emotions a little differently as well). You couldn't hold up emotions as a quantifiable proof, just as part of a personal testament if anything. An individual can't correctly speak for anyone else's feelings - the example, where one cannot say "I love X more than you." If they are just referring to a feeling, then they cannot correctly speak for the other person. You cannot say whether another person does or doesn't feel love - if you aren't them, there's way to know their feelings.

1. Love is an action. My favorite definition because love is a verb. The action of love is vast but not un-quantifable. Helping someone, sharing with someone, taking care of someone, are all ways to show love. Yes, those things could be done without love, so you would have to establish intent. I would say an action of love is an action done because a person truly wants the best for that person (or animal)

I think that many people when they think of love, they try to quantify it as this biggest, greatest action-feeling in existence, and that's not how I see real love at all. Caring for someone is loving someone. That doesn't have to a big action, if anything. I see a bird in the sky and think "I wish you the best possible life in existence" - I don't captured the bird, I let it be free, because that's what I see as best for that person. I am loving that bird, and there's no other single-word in the English language that could describe that.

Precisely my points.

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Touchofinsight

Love definitely exists in the abstract sense reducing it to chemical responses in the brain can be a bit dismissive but it doesn't make it any less true. People still experience it. However I would say the importance of being in love and experiencing it as some sort of life plan is a bit exaggerated in terms of importance. You know the whole typical life plan: Birth, education, career, love, family, kids, die.

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Lord Jade Cross

Actually the typical life plan doesnt include love. The plan is as follows: Birth, indoctrination (as i can hardly think that what we recieve is an "education"), career, marriage (which is a socially indoctrinated idea as well. We mix the losoe concept of love because of the hand that religions have had in the formatiin of society, as well as the human nature of copying everything because of greed.),family, kids (another socially indoctrinated ideal as humans have already far exceded the need to procreate inmmesurably. I dont think that the argument that "its programmed into us" is a valid one because if we really did act according to out genetic instincts, we'd be down the streets killing ourselves for resources or supremacy), death (our inevitable and demonized end.)

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If a great many people (over thousands of years) experience what they call "love" in their language, and their description of it is basically similar, it exists. It isn't a made-up concept.

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Lord Jade Cross

Except that the idea of love didnt exist until Shakespeare. So it still sounds made up. Just because humans percieve something for a long time and give it a name, doesnt make any more real. Think gods in literature or culture. You could have an entire population believe in a god and feel its omnipotent presence (or drug induced feeling as was often the case) and that doesnt make the god any more real. What people do is simultaneously fool one another and convince one another about something that they both agree on.

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Autumn Season
Do you think that love is actually a made up concept?

Nope.

So i ask again, is love real and what evidence (tangible not ideological) is there to disprove that its non existence its actually incorrect?

People, who say that love is not real or that it might not be real, confuse me. What makes them ask that, I wonder.

I can feel love very often, whenever I think about a person, an animal or even object. It doesn't have to be a very strong or even selfless feeling. But if I were to describe what I feel, I would say "love". I am grateful, that I met this person. They are so adorable. I like to spend time with them. Even if I never see them again, I want them to lead a wonderful life. Just thinking about them makes me smile, content, calm. I love them.

The problem might be that the word "love" sounds like such an important, life-altering experience. But it doesn't have to be a strong feeling.

Also, some people only use "love" in the context of romantic feelings. I don't think this is right. Platonic feelings can be just as strong and even stronger than romantic (or sexual) ones.

About evidence: Actions should be our evidence. For instance when a person enjoys spending time with you, it's easy to see. (It doesn't seem forced.) They probably love you in a platonic way. That doesn't mean that they would die for you. It just means that they really appreciate you for being yourself.

I wonder, how would this affect the population? If love was credited to only be a fantasy like scenario, how would things change? I imagine that right of the bat, wedding ceremonies and investments would crash instantly but beyond the monetary factor involved, what other fields could be affected?

people experience a plethora of diverse fantasy. fantasy drives us to pursue a reality. we imagine that the fantasy is not truly reachable, but we ignore that and call it "anxiety" and try not to deter us from pursuit of our dreams.

if "love" were proved to be purely myth, it would naturally change the culture; but whatever culture would be collapsed would only be replaced by new growth. heh, nature abhors a vacuum!

First of all you sound really smart and I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Second of all, this reminds me of something I heard about evolution: Humans tend to overestimate their abilities. This makes it easier for them to achieve difficult goals or to strive for them, even if it's impossible. The same might be true with a romantic "Happy End": Even though we know, it is difficult or even unlikely to achieve, we still feel optimistic and strive for it.

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Lord Jade Cross

What makes me ask about its existence is the constant pressure brought on of not participating in it/of it.

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Rising Sun

I think I see your point then, but I don't have the same conclusion as you.

Let me take an example directly from my everyday life. I'm a vegetarian and I meet so often people who tell me "you really should eat meat again, because it tastes so good and vegetarians eventually suffer from nutrient deficiencies and die". I can't say that the argument "meat is tasty" is wrong. It is tasty and I admit it, but the thing is I'm not a vegetarian because of the taste of food. And I'm a vegetarian for 15 years and there are a lot of vegetarians who live a very long and healthy life.

Replace my words in the last paragraph, "meat" with "marriage", "tasty" with "beautiful" and "nutrient deficiencies" with "loneliness". Romantic love does exist, but the thing is that it's addictive too and people develop some sort of dependency on it. Personally, I can have very strong romantic feelings, and I think romantic love is beautiful. I'm currently enjoying it and it's wonderful, but if one day it ended and the only possibility for romance for me were to start a new relationship with another person, I already know that I would prefer being single, being single is great too and it's super simple, comfortable... But when I was totally single, I was harassed by people who wanted me to find the "prince charming".

Yes, love exists and it's beautiful, but the problem is what people do with it (how they're addicted to it, in that case). Just like guns.

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Anthracite_Impreza

Just because you're feeling pressured into it it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's like me saying sexual attraction isn't real because I have been pressured to feel it but haven't.

I think love is very real. It isn't tangible, no, and it doesn't have a definition everyone will agree on, but it exists in some way. Like Autumn Season said, actions speak for its existence. If we didn't love, we wouldn't do anything but sit around and eat/drink/sleep etc. because we wouldn't have anything pushing us to do anything else. Would I spend ludicrous amounts of money, time and effort tuning my car if I didn't love him and tuning? Would someone climb to the top of a mountain if they didn't love the idea of proving themselves? Would someone willingly go to war if they didn't love their country and cause? Nope, there'd be no point.

In my eyes love shows itself in hundreds, thousands or even millions of ways, it isn't just romantic, familial or platonic. It's just a weird mush of neurochemicals that give us the desire to engage in things that are not directly for our benefit, and keep us going despite the odds.

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Lord Jade Cross

So what changed between being single and being in a relationship?

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Lord Jade Cross

Just because you're feeling pressured into it it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's like me saying sexual attraction isn't real because I have been pressured to feel it but haven't.

I think love is very real. It isn't tangible, no, and it doesn't have a definition everyone will agree on, but it exists in some way. Like Autumn Season said, actions speak for its existence. If we didn't love, we wouldn't do anything but sit around and eat/drink/sleep etc. because we wouldn't have anything pushing us to do anything else. Would I spend ludicrous amounts of money, time and effort tuning my car if I didn't love him and tuning? Would someone climb to the top of a mountain if they didn't love the idea of proving themselves? Would someone willingly go to war if they didn't love their country and cause? Nope, there'd be no point.

In my eyes love shows itself in hundreds, thousands or even millions of ways, it isn't just romantic, familial or platonic. It's just a weird mush of neurochemicals that give us the desire to engage in things that are not directly for our benefit, and keep us going despite the odds.

Its a little more than just the pressuring, although this is indeed the trigger. But for instance, I have had a habit of questioning things because to me saying "this is so" is not much of a valid argument. Aside from that, people are nortoriously clever at brainwashing individuals in order to get the to comply with something. And on top of that, and not only in love but other areas as well, aI have had people tell me the phrase "dont focus on that" whenever i threw back their own words and logic againts them which made it sound like "follow what i say blindly" which is something I do not agree with.

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Anthracite_Impreza

I'm the same way, I don't believe something unless I've seen the evidence OR (big or) I feel it personally. I think love is real because I've FELT it, in the same way I think hunger is real because I've felt that. Love also makes logical sense, I see people do both silly and selfless things in its name. People risk their lives to rescue others from disaster zones because of altruism (a form of communal love), they'll starve so their family can eat. They also do silly things, like stay in abusive relationships or extend someone's suffering because they can't bear to let them die. No one would do these things without love.

I now ask you (sorry if I've missed it somewhere), do you feel love?

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Lord Jade Cross

No. I feel obligation in terms of family due to mutual financial benefits, I felt transactions between people, whether its in term of money, favors, lending, etc. But I dont feel this feeling which people refer to as love.

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Anthracite_Impreza

No. I feel obligation in terms of family due to mutual financial benefits, I felt transactions between people, whether its in term of money, favors, lending, etc. But I dont feel this feeling which people refer to as love.

Have you ever had a pet, or a hobby? Did you ever feel love towards them?

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Lord Jade Cross

Writting was my hobby. Not sure if i would call it love as it was a once in a blue moon thing. It did turn into a way to vent out my frustrations but after an incident with my parents and an extreme invasion of privacy, i never took it up again

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Anthracite_Impreza

Writting was my hobby. Not sure if i would call it love as it was a once in a blue moon thing. It did turn into a way to vent out my frustrations but after an incident with my parents and an extreme invasion of privacy, i never took it up again

Not to be an armchair psychiatrist but do you think you could have "turned your love off" because of the problems with your family? Or did you just never feel it? I'm just trying to understand because I'm a very love-y person (I struggle to show or express it, but it's there), I feel it everyday, so...

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Except that the idea of love didnt exist until Shakespeare.

As far as what we know by written history, the idea of love existed for the ancient Greeks. I don't know why you think the concept of love somehow only started in the 16th century.

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Lord Jade Cross

How would i be able to tell?

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Lord Jade Cross

Except that the idea of love didnt exist until Shakespeare.

As far as what we know by written history, the idea of love existed for the ancient Greeks. I don't know why you think the concept of love somehow only started in the 16th century.
The greeks seemed to be more into erotism and narcissism rather than love. Unless you want to categorize those attitudes as love.
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Anthracite_Impreza

How would i be able to tell?

I suppose it's like being asexual, you only realise when you realise other people feel something you're not. It's a very hard thing to describe, as we've discovered, and it's even harder since there's so many different types. For me I feel a warm, pleasant feeling in my belly (usually accompanied by a little smile up to massive grin depending on the strength); it's physical but sort of mental/spiritual as well. Smiling's a big part of it for me, though I don't know if that's universal. Naturally feeling love of any type will also raise your mood and make you feel more positive towards the object of your affection. If you used to feel that but now don't, then something must have caused that (though I obviously couldn't say what).

I'm going to stop there to try to reduce confusion...

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Lord Jade Cross

Lets say for a moment that I did feel it at one point. If you can experience it in a variety of different ways, how could I be sure it was love if i didnt feel something like a warm felling or grinding smile?

I did have a more, i guess more obvious moment where someone straight out told me that I have never experienced love, the romantic kind when I stated once that if you suffered because of a cheating partner, that you only had to drop them like a bad cold and move on without any reservations or remorse.

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Lets say for a moment that I did feel it at one point. If you can experience it in a variety of different ways, how could I be sure it was love if i didnt feel something like a warm felling or grinding smile?

I did have a more, i guess more obvious moment where someone straight out told me that I have never experienced love, the romantic kind when I stated once that if you suffered because of a cheating partner, that you only had to drop them like a bad cold and move on without any reservations or remorse.

Under the same logic, how can be sure you felt sad if you didn't cry? You just kind of "know" - whatever your version - of love or sadness - will be a little different that someone else, so you have to create your own version to a degree.

The meaning of love for me is something or someone I really really care about. I appreciate them and want the best for them. They may produce a feeling of happiness if I think about them or if I am around them (not always the case). I want to help those I love (within reason and only if they want help) - that goes along with wanting the best life for them. I would be sad if they died - for me, I'm not as sad if we just part ways... live moves on. I still wish them well and I'm just glad if they are having a good life. That's the main point of love to me.

I don't think I've ever felt romantic love. I've been in romantic relationship (just two) and in one case, I know I loved them, but the "feelings" were the same as a close friendship. We broke up and I still love them in a "I wish you well" kind of way. I don't doubt that other people are feeling something I don't though, because of the way they describe the feeling of falling in love and the way they describe heartbreak.

Do you feel apathetic towards everything and everyone?

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The greeks seemed to be more into erotism and narcissism rather than love. Unless you want to categorize those attitudes as love.

The Greeks had four words for love. Agape is the one that refers to unconditional love, as for one's spouse or relationship partner. Only one word, eros, has to do with sexual passion; none describe narcissism.

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I've never had a multiple orgasm, so clearly they must not exist either. Everyone who apparently has 'experienced' multiple orgasms describes the way they feel differently (some say tingling toes, some say they have mini blackouts, some say waves of pleasure, the list goes on) ..if no one can agree on what a multiple orgasm actually feels like, or tangibly explain it in words that make total sense, then they must all be making the experience up.

Unless I myself experience it, then it clearly isn't real. I really am that special.

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