What makes you identify as Gray-A?

[Guest]

Hmm, i hate to confuse you once you got things down, and I'm not actually contradicting anything i said before, but i wanna talk about this. I do talk simplistically in the following so i think it'll be fine and not result in confusion. It's been debated which one of the two is actually the root of sexual attraction. On one hand, sexual arousal is what triggers sexual desire in sexual people; thus sexual desire is the root and arousal is just its trigger. Then some say it's the arousal because romantic attraction and romantic drive are separate and they think it should be the same; romantic feelings and then having a romantic-drive/drive to be in a romantic relationship=sexual arousal and then having a sex-drive/drive to have sex. But that would mean that any form of sexual arousal is sexual attraction with no sexual desire. Which i would disagree, as in the previous example of random boners in class do not mean they have sexual attraction to learning, among many more examples of its inadequacy. That would mean that asexuals that react to porn with sexual arousal have sexual attraction to the erotica itself and not the people. That would mean that having a foot fetish means you have sexual attraction to feet while not having the actual desire to have sex with a foot. I strongly disagree with this perspective and think it's the former.

I think someones presence being sexually arousing is technically sexual attraction with no sexual desire, but i wouldn't actually call it sexual attraction unless you have both of the aforementioned requirements. The same goes for romantic attraction. (i.e. having an involuntarily reaction to something is not your decision and thus not you/you are not sexually attracted to a person but your body is. There are people who do not wish to be sexually attracted to what they are sexually attracted to. If a 'gay' man wishes he didn't have those impulses toward other men then i wouldn't call him gay or even say he's sexually attracted to them. Not out of respect, but the fact that he cannot control it.) Thus even if someones body reacts to an individual's presence with arousal, they can still be asexual. Just like unless someone actively pursues their fetish, i would not say them reacting to X with arousal means that X is their fetish.

Yeah, I have read some of those debates about what sexual attraction really is. From what I have seen they really haven't ever led to any kind of concensus other than "agree to disagree". Which I guess is not really surprising, since sexual attraction is pretty personal feeling.

For the record, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes that sexual attraction would require both sexual arousal and desire to have sex. It's the most clearly worded definition I have seen and from experince I can say arousal alone doesn't really cause any kind of drive to do anything. And you explaining things further didn't confuse me, rather it might have actually made things more clear.

In the end, I would say that the fact AVEN doesn't really have any clear and universal definition for sexual attraction could be problematic. For a person like me who is really only interested in understanding definitons and doesn't really care what kind of identity they end up with, lack of clear definiton for sexual attraction isn't that huge of a deal, mostly annoying. Even for people who are confused and anxious about the lack of clear definiton and how it affects them, things can be explained and community can support them. However, when I am talking about asexuality outside of AVEN, lack of clear definition could cause problems. I can easily enough explain that asexuality is lack of sexual attraction. However, if I cannot clearly answer to the question "what do you mean by sexual attraction?" that will at best leave the other person confused, at worst they might just reject the whole idea of asexuality because of this.

I don't know if it is really possible to find any clear definition for sexual attraction that would satisfy the whole AVEN community, but finding one would make things easier for everyone.

This discussion is getting pretty far from this thread's original purpose, so if anyone is interested in talking further about this, it should probably be outside this thread.

[dio]

I feel like I go through cycles or whatever. 90% of the time, I couldn't care less about sex.

But then occasionally there's a week where I totally want it. And then I go back to not wanting or needing it for months. So that's why I feel like gray-A fits me.

Yes! ...This :)

I think that the Summer weather is behind all of this. Libido is up. Sexual attraction that lasts less than 5 mins. Sexual attraction is stronger but still somewhat dull. More likely to think about it than to actually do it. No chance of ever becoming desperate which attracts more people to you (A Hallmark Ace Attribute) which can sometimes be good (wanted attention) or sometimes bad (unwanted attention/impossible situation) also it's very hard when you like someone as a friend and they won't accept your friendship because they are still relentlessly trying to figure out a way to have a sexual/romantic relationship with you. Being ace is like not being controlled so much by the physical world. It allows you to see more things for what they are. It adds more social pressure and relieves the societal pressure simultaneously.

[flipflopperman]

for me it's because i *do* want to have/enjoy sex to some degree, and because i have experienced sexual attraction in the past (but only ever to one person). i guess i just don't feel comfortable saying that i'm 100% asexual

[Star Bit]

It's not really off topic; the thread is about Gray-A; which is about sexual attraction, and we're talking about what sexual attraction is.

But this will be my last comment on the matter on this thread. Recently i watched a speach by a sex therapist which fully confirmed our definition of sexual attraction. She said that the couples that didn't have sex were actually due to the partner's presence nolonger being arousing. The arousal is what triggers their sexual impulses. And eventhough the parter enjoys sex when they have it, they still don't have the impulse anymore and why the lack of sex containues despite occasional sex/them knowing it's pleasurable. Though she did say that the partners do seem to forget how pleasurable it is (they remember it is but forget how much), which is another reason for their lack of action.

Also, here's a good responce to people who say it's otherwise. Saying sexual attraction is sexual arousal is as logical as saying romantic attraction is butterflies in my stomach. They are physical reactions (or are they triggers?) to the attractions but the are not the attraction, nor do their existances automatically mean the existance of that attraction. Actually, the two may not be comparable in yet another way; acording to my newest thread, romantic attraction may work either way; being a trigger or reaction, but sexual attraction is triggered by sexual arousal.

[Andromache]

I used refer to myself as bi but also thought of myself as ace often. It's not that I feel like I am both of those things, it's more like neither of them fit exactly. This is how I've ended up with grey-A, because nothing else matched my identity as closely.

[emma-can]

I used to identify as demi, but I don't now, cuz I feel like even though I wouldn't have sex with anyone I wasn't emotionally attached to, I don't think that's the cause of my attraction.

Grey-a also accounts for the fact that I'm interested in masturbating, kissing, touching, but not really "actual" sex. Occasionally I am interested in "actual" sex, but I think whether or not I am interested aligns with my period/ovulation.

[jamesjackson8]

I am someone who for most of my life was in love with the idea of being in love. From childhood I pictured myself growing up, having the two and half children that all good Christians are supposed to have and living that way for the rest of my life like I saw on t.v in the eighties. Strangely enough it turns out that the real world isn't always like t.v. For the most part I have never really been attracted to females at all other than appreciating their looks and personalities. With other boys and now as an adult other men I love the idea of being with one and to me it seems like the most natural thing in the world to do. The only problem is when I pictured it in my head sex never factored into the equation at all and this hot gay relationship I was looking for is more like a cute best friend to snuggle with. With very select people there have been the occasional sexual attractions but not very often at all.

[That asexual guy]

I don't identify as Gray A I identify as asexual but I think other aces would classify me as Gray rather than asexual. I don't think I neatly fit the approved definition of "not experiencing sexual attraction." My asexuality is more about me not having a desire to have sex. So even if it does seems fleetingly I could be interested in someone it certainly isn't strong enough for me to care about it. I also have had sex in my life. I can take it or leave, and would much rather leave it. I don't care for it. Hoped it could be over with soon so I could do something else. And didn't want to do it again after it was over. So while I identify as asexual I'm sure most people on here would say that I'm actually gray.

[Blue Phoenix Ace]

I chose "grey-sexual" because I can see a woman and think "wow, she's hot!" In my mind, I think it might be fun to have sex with her. But the feeling is fleeting and never sparks me into action. I don't seem to have a desire to actually do the deed. I feel like a 100% asexual wouldn't know that someone is "hot" or have any of the "that might be fun" thoughts.

[thunderpetal]

Honestly, I'm leaning towards Gray-ace and that's because I've felt so much sexual attraction that I've slowly gotten worn out of it and felt less sexual attraction. The thing is, I have sexual "crushes" on many people, but I don't feel it very much. Do I make sense? Probably not o_o

[dio]

Honestly, I'm leaning towards Gray-ace and that's because I've felt so much sexual attraction that I've slowly gotten worn out of it and felt less sexual attraction. The thing is, I have sexual "crushes" on many people, but I don't feel it very much. Do I make sense? Probably not o_o

That sounds like Gray-A to me :)

[RainOn]

Personally, I identified as Gray-A for several reasons. Compared to all of my peers, I have a noticably lower libido, in which I've never felt like seeking out other people or masturbated. I've never had sex, but the closest I've gotten left me disgusted and physically shivering with revulsion. I even pretended to meditate to get out of it.

This sounds like pure Ace already, but I've never truly had sex, and I was only kinda dating the person--what if I date seriously, or find someone I actually love? Would my feelings change? Maybe.

[GistOfSpirit]

I call myself that because I'd generally say that I'm "asexual with a fetish". I have a sort of infatuation with breasts, since I was a pre-teen, but nothing more than that. Although I do "sexual" things (the quotes are important) like fantasize about women and masturbate, if that infatuation wasn't there I think I'd be totally ace, as I've never felt any kind of desire for sex or any other body part (of either women or men). At the same time it depends on one's definition of being ace, as I still want to be physically close to people.

On another note, I really hate that the "official" term is "Grey-A" as I think it sounds ridiculous ("grayay"). I prefer to use just "grey" or "grey ace". The latter may still have the "ay" part repeated but at least it's not at the end, which makes it sound a lot better to me.

[Yew]

I am gray in both romantic and sexual senses.

I like being by myself too much- the thought of sexual or romantic intimacy with someone feels like it would be a chore. I still sometimes feel attracted to guys in both senses. But where a sexual romantic would probably go and flirt or call up a mate to talk about how hot this guy was, I would acknowledge the attraction then get back to whatever I was doing? The same way you might acknowledge a headache and get back to what you were doing?

[ghoul]

I identify as grey-asexual because even though I have very little desire for sex... And sometimes even get disgusted by the idea of it - I do actually sometimes get some desire.

[crazypimpernelfan]

I like to call myself "bisexual" because it's sooo much easier to say--once the person I'm talking to knows I like both men and women, I mean. I don't like to tell a person straight out, "I'm bisexual". I prefer saying "I have same-sex attractions and opposite-sex attractions", or else, "I like both men and women". Once the person knows me, I begin saying, "You know, because I'm bisexual--" and yada yada yada.

But on here, I tend to call myself "gray-bisexual" because that's a LEEETLE bit more accurate. I'm only somewhat attracted to women sexually. But I'm not attracted to men sexually.

And when I'm attracted to women sexually, it tends to be for a short time and only some sexual attraction. It's never enough to make me feel like I must act upon the attraction.

Though even if I don't have strong sexual attractions to men or women, I AM interested in sex in general. I think sex seems to be fascinating in so many different ways. I used to be very sex-repulsed, but as time passes by I've begun being less repulsed and more open towards the idea of sex and how enjoyable it could be.

So I guess the only thing keeping me as gray-ace is the few and slight sexual attractions (which is pretty much what's required, soo...). I'll live with it. It's like I can be partially asexual while being partially allosexual at the same time! It's cool! B-)

[The Seeker649]

I don't like sex. I don't hate it either. I just feel the payoff is kinda weak.

20 minutes of foreplay

10 minutes of work

2 seconds of feeling awesome

5 minutes to catch my breath

15 minutes to clean up, 30 if it was interesting, and an hour if it was REALLY interesting.

That two seconds isn't worth it most of the time. I'd rather not do it but if my girlfriend wants it, I won't say no. However, from time to time, the need strikes. I have my kinks as well but again, it's rare. None of this is possible without someone I feel an emotional bond with.

[hollow_bullet]

I've only experienced sexual attraction once in my life, and that was with my boyfriend of 10 months. He was also my best friend for 3 years before we started dating. Most of the time I would only want to have sex if I was extremely aroused. Would this make me demisexual or just sexual?

[scarletlatitude]

I've only experienced sexual attraction once in my life, and that was with my boyfriend of 10 months. He was also my best friend for 3 years before we started dating. Most of the time I would only want to have sex if I was extremely aroused. Would this make me demisexual or just sexual?

You could be demisexual. Do you feel like you have sexual attraction to other people (people who are not your boyfriend and who you don't necessarily have a friendship with)? If so, you may be sexual.

[hollow_bullet]

I've only experienced sexual attraction once in my life, and that was with my boyfriend of 10 months. He was also my best friend for 3 years before we started dating. Most of the time I would only want to have sex if I was extremely aroused. Would this make me demisexual or just sexual?

You could be demisexual. Do you feel like you have sexual attraction to other people (people who are not your boyfriend and who you don't necessarily have a friendship with)? If so, you may be sexual.

I have not felt sexual attraction to anyone else. I am no longer with that boyfriend, we have been broken up for about 5-6 months now. When I look back I think that what I experienced with him was arousal and not necessarily sexual attraction because as soon as the sex started, my interest in it faded almost instantly and I would just have to lay there awkwardly and pretend to be turned on until he was done. In the 10 months we were together, I think I was only able to "finish" during sex 4-5 times because the other times I wasn't into it. My brain wouldn't just focus on the sex and the feeling of it, I would just want it to be over. I never brought up these feelings to my boyfriend because if I didn't want to have sex he would get very angry and yell or get violent until I complied, so I would just grin and bear it. I still like kissing, hugging, hand holding, etc but I couldn't care less about sex. Trying to think of having sex with someone is awkward and uncomfortable for me, but if I truly loved the person then I think I could just "grin and bear it" to make them happy if they were also willing to compromise something in return so I wasn't feeling that way all of the time.

[scarletlatitude]

I've only experienced sexual attraction once in my life, and that was with my boyfriend of 10 months. He was also my best friend for 3 years before we started dating. Most of the time I would only want to have sex if I was extremely aroused. Would this make me demisexual or just sexual?

You could be demisexual. Do you feel like you have sexual attraction to other people (people who are not your boyfriend and who you don't necessarily have a friendship with)? If so, you may be sexual.

I have not felt sexual attraction to anyone else. I am no longer with that boyfriend, we have been broken up for about 5-6 months now. When I look back I think that what I experienced with him was arousal and not necessarily sexual attraction because as soon as the sex started, my interest in it faded almost instantly and I would just have to lay there awkwardly and pretend to be turned on until he was done. In the 10 months we were together, I think I was only able to "finish" during sex 4-5 times because the other times I wasn't into it. My brain wouldn't just focus on the sex and the feeling of it, I would just want it to be over. I never brought up these feelings to my boyfriend because if I didn't want to have sex he would get very angry and yell or get violent until I complied, so I would just grin and bear it. I still like kissing, hugging, hand holding, etc but I couldn't care less about sex. Trying to think of having sex with someone is awkward and uncomfortable for me, but if I truly loved the person then I think I could just "grin and bear it" to make them happy if they were also willing to compromise something in return so I wasn't feeling that way all of the time.

Hmm okay. Then you may be asexual. The AVEN definition of asexual is "no sexual attraction". That doesn't mean that an asexual won't have sex. It's the difference between attraction and action, really. Whatever word you pick is up to you though. ;)

[012]

To answer the OP's question...

I identify myself as Gray-A because while I do feel attraction, I have little or no desire to act on it. So I'm neither sexual or asexual.

And I've never really enjoyed sex and can't understand what people see in it at all.

For me attraction/crushes/love etc. are more emotional/mental than physical. I'm fine with intimacy but would like to leave out the sex part.

There are some rare times when I feel a more "normal" type of desire but those are rare exceptions, not the norm at all.

When I was in my teens and 20s I never went through those stages of chasing sex like other guys did. I knew I was different from my peers but didn't totally understand myself. I finally get it, and it feels good, especially knowing there are actually others out there too.

[Lil'cake]

I say I'm Demisexual because I eventually did feel sexual attraction towards my soulmate. However, this wasn't the case when we first met. Also, before I met her I couldn't become sexually attracted to any of the girls i dated and after I met her I haven't had any sexual desires towards anyone else.

[012]

I also have had sex in my life. I can take it or leave, and would much rather leave it. I don't care for it. Hoped it could be over with soon so I could do something else. And didn't want to do it again after it was over.

Seriously, don't know what people see in it. And why does society/media try to brainwash us into thinking it's the greatest thing in the world?

[Rising Sun]

I also have had sex in my life. I can take it or leave, and would much rather leave it. I don't care for it. Hoped it could be over with soon so I could do something else. And didn't want to do it again after it was over.

Seriously, don't know what people see in it. And why does society/media try to brainwash us into thinking it's the greatest thing in the world?

Think about chocolate. Most people really like chocolate and desire eating chocolate from time to time. Some people are even addicted to it. Some people, on the contrary, don't see why others love chocolate, and there are even a few who hate it. Even more complicated, there are some people who don't like the taste of chocolate but who still feel the need to eat it, there are some people who really like chocolate but who don't have any desire to eat chocolate at all, and there are some people who like only very specific kinds of chocolate.

It's the exact same thing with sex. We're all different, and we aren't supposed to like or want the same things. That's all.

[booksoversex]

I use the term because I have had sex, and even liked it very much - but it was the physical sensation of it that appealed to me, not necessarily the person I had sex with. I could have casual sex or I could have sex with a boyfriend and it didn't feel much different, except that when you're in a relationship you get more practiced at having sex together, iow figuring out what the other person likes etc. But I don't really understand what sexual attraction is, I have never felt the urge to touch people in a sexual way out of the blue or thought of them/pictured them in a sexual setting. If I ever were to picture someone naked, I am sure it would just make me laugh and not in any way turn me on. I can't even relate to picturing someone in a sexual setting or imagining having sex with them. And even though I like sex I don't prefer it to masturbation. There are also aspects of sex I find horribly gross - when you think about it, sex in itself is a bit messy and gross, I especially feel repulsed by oral sex. I have done it, but I've never enjoyed it (except for enjoying how it makes the other person feel). I can disconnect a bit during sex and suddenly think to myself "THIS IS INSANE, AND SWEATY, AND GROSS!" which I don't think any of my sexual friends do. When people tell me they had sex on that couch etc. I feel grossed out. But if you don't think that much about these things, while having sex, and just enjoy the physical sensations of it, it's not all bad. I actually feel the urge to vomit when thinking about giving oral sex, and I find the penis very un-appealing, aesthetically. Seeing one has never turned me on. I guess that's why when I have had sex I've just wanted to get on with it, not wanting to touch it etc. (it feels alien), but when it's in me it feels much more natural/good and I don't have to look at it. Skipping the foreplay is okay with me, less touching and oral. It is the actual sensations of sex/penetration that I like, the other aspects of sex I find quite repulsive. I hope this doesn't offend anyone with a penis, but it's just how I see it - it's a body part which is ugly and gross. :P

So in some aspects I am definitely asexual, but I am indifferent to sex in that it doesn't interest me in any way enough to seek it out, but I don't mind it if it happens/in a relationship. I have sometimes had sex just so my friends will stop nagging. It sounds brutal/wrong, but it's not really - I don't mind having sex at all, and since I enjoy the sensation it's fine by me, it just doesn't interest me enough to seek it out unless I have a reason to (like having friends stop talking about my lack of a love life). I guess that means I have a somewhat cynical outlook on sex, and I might do. That being said, I haven't had casual sex in years and much prefer having it inside a relationship if I am to have it all - then it becomes more intimate, which I can appreciate, although I still don't need to have sex. I would much rather do other things with a loved one than having sex, and when I explain to people what I am looking for in a relationship I guess it sounds rather "sexless" - I want someone to trust, a best friend, whom you can have fun with and share everything with, and whom you are intimate with. All that romance and lovey-dovey things are not necessarily what I want, sure, it's sweet, but I'd rather get to the stage where you have a life partner/someone to share your life with right away, where it just feels right to be together as a couple but without the dramatic flair and the things often connected with a new relationship/dating. I want the Doctor Who-marathons and kayaking trips, more of a "best friends in love"-situation (because being sensual with my friends would feel wrong, so it would be more than a friendship) when you dig spending time together and it seems like a loss not to. I want to skip all that unneccessary new romance stuff. :P It doesn't interest me at all.

[Delicacy]

''There are many forms of sex but desiring to do sensual things with the objective of arousal is not sex. So an asexual could very well have the kink of sexual-sensual attraction.''

I don't understand this. Could you explain it in another way, please?

[Kireikatt]

I'm still trying to sort myself out, but I think I identify as gray because I experience sexual attraction incredibly infrequently (less than one person every two years or so). I've had sex in the past and enjoyed it, but I could go the rest of my life without it. I do occasionally get aroused (usually tied in to my cycle) and masturbate, but I don't fantasize about people when I do. Also kissing and even thinking about doing more when it comes to 99.9% of people is squicky :3

[Siggy]

There's a certain narrative of a sex-favorable asexual, where the person likes sex but just doesn't have any visceral feeling that could be called attraction. I think I fit that narrative and could maybe call myself asexual if I wanted to. But it kind of feels like too much of a contortion to me. If other people with similar experiences prefer to identify as asexual that's fine but I prefer not to. I tried calling myself asexual for half a year and didn't really like it.

Back in 2012 I wrote a fairly influential post defining gray-A. I think of it more as a general cluster of ideas, not a word with a specific definition. It's like lots of other words in that way.

[stonehengegirl]

I'm a Gray but I'm on the dark side of gray. I've experienced sexual attraction twice. Once in my late 20's and I had no idea what was happening and a second time on in late my late 30's which lead to a 5 year relationship. My lack on interest in sex was one of the reasons the relationship ended. I didn't know about asexuality then. I have no interest in sex currently but if I'm in a relationship again, I'm not opposed to it as long as there's understanding and compromise. If I never experience sexual attraction again I'm fine with that. It was just weird to me and everything felt like it was out of control.