herlo Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 This is something that annoys me greatly that young people my age only care about looks (18-21) it makes me sad that they are so shallow. It annoys me more that its impossible for me to fit into their extremly small list of qualities that are attractive. Its impossible for me to build muscle due to being really skinny and having an overactive metabolism so even with protein shakes and a qualified trainer i put nothing on. So i am destined to be 'ugly' and alone for ever accoeding to them. Why are people so shallow and horrible. It makes me really upset they think that and i have just kind of recovered from a long string of sadness this doesent help. Link to post Share on other sites
DiEvAl Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Well, even if you had large muscles, you probably wouldn't want to date people you consider shallow. But not all people are like that. EDIT: For some reason I assumed you are talking about romantic attraction. For other types of attraction just replace the word 'date' above. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 80814 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I'm 20 and have quite thin arms, with friends that go to the gym (and do all that protein shake shite) so much they look like they're wearing swimming armbands under their clothes. Never liked that look (for myself or on other males) so I haven't even bothered trying the gym. Just guess that yeah that look is more um 'widely accepted', but there will be someone that likes you for your looks and how you are, and anyone that criticizes you in the meantime are so far up their own arse anyway their opinion is worthless. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 People who actually matter and are worth hanging around won't judge you for your looks. No point in hanging out with shallow gits who will treat you like that and only bring you down. Anyway, I myself (and plenty of other females I have met) waaaay prefer a thin guy to a buffed up gym monkey (blergh) so in our eyes you wouldn't be ugly at all in comparison to them (you'd actually be waay more attractive than them in my eyes - maybe that makes me shallow for the opposite reason as them, I don't know.. I don't judge them, I just don't find the fake gym look attractive at all) so yeah, I think you just need to find new people to hang out with OP. Link to post Share on other sites
Dakkon Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Cry me a river. Unless it's your nature to be thought of as attractive by strangers, you're only sabotaging yourself by valuing who you are in terms of people who you describe as "shallow and horrible". Additionally, if you do value yourself by those terms, you're only going to attract those same people that you hold with disdain to you. That is the indoctrination of society at work, it creates dissonance by pushing the idea that everyone is the same and everyone must value the same things. Be yourself and don't fret on what other people think about you, you can't change their opinions as that is their decision to make. When you resonate with your own nature (or be yourself) you'll attract people who synchronize with that unique nature effortlessly. Link to post Share on other sites
allrightalready Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 when you get older all they care about is money. best to just cut shallow people like that out of your life, quality people care about who you are and not about stuff that does not matter Link to post Share on other sites
That asexual guy Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 And money. Looks and money. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Bit Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes, and for a very good reason. What are perceived as good looks are actually instinctively and subconsciously traits of good genetics/what should be passed down. Muscle means you can protect them, provide for them under hunting/primal circumstances, as well as it being a sign of puberty; which is a sign of youth and something people typically don't have at an infertile age; before puberty or after male menopause. Good eyes are literally good eyes; they have a higher chance of 20/20 vision, even if the eye shape isn't good people subconsciously notice the darker band around the outer edge of the iris which thins with health and age and they can call the eyes good strictly on that, wide eyes have a higher chance of mental instability and why ppl view it as creepy, a small nose means youth because the cartilage in the nose typically gets fatter as you age, youth is attractive because they have a higher chance of not producing a child with mental or physical disorders, people with a more semetrical face actually have better genetics; they are less likely to have mental or physical disorders and more likely to have a stronger immune system. I could probably list more. Link to post Share on other sites
Amoeba-Proteus Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The way I see it, anyone who isn't going to like me just because of my physical appearance, can go screw.I don't want people like that in my life. I'd rather have people in my life who like me for who I am, just like how I like them for who they are.Looks don't make the person. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 This is something that annoys me greatly that young people my age only care about looks (18-21) it makes me sad that they are so shallow. It annoys me more that its impossible for me to fit into their extremly small list of qualities that are attractive. Its impossible for me to build muscle due to being really skinny and having an overactive metabolism so even with protein shakes and a qualified trainer i put nothing on. So i am destined to be 'ugly' and alone for ever accoeding to them. Why are people so shallow and horrible. It makes me really upset they think that and i have just kind of recovered from a long string of sadness this doesent help. Well, if it were just the superficial people who cared about whether you're attractive or not, that'd be fine. But it turns out even very intelligent people would for purposes of romance and sometimes even friendship value good looks over personality traits, and at that point I just want to flip a table. Good thing none of my friends are like that. Yes, and for a very good reason. What are percieved as good looks are actually instinctually and subconciously traits of good genetics/what should be passed down. Muscle means you can protect them, good eyes are literally good eyes; they have a higher chance of 20/20 vision, wide eyes have a higher chance of mental instability and why ppl view it as creepy, a small nose means youth because the cartilage in the nose typically gets fatter as you age, youth is attractive because they have a higher chance of not producing a defective child, people with a more semetrical face actually have better genetics; they are less likely to have mental or physical disorders, etc. o_O I don't even know where to begin, except to note that your understanding of genetics is actually incredibly poor. Like, below school education kind of poor. Please educate yourself a bit more before you talk about this subject. The idea of "good genetics" taken at such a naive interpretation is incredibly dangerous. Like, you know, "autistic people must not be allowed to reproduce" kind of dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites
Annapox Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes, and for a very good reason. What are percieved as good looks are actually instinctually and subconciously traits of good genetics/what should be passed down. Muscle means you can protect them, good eyes are literally good eyes; they have a higher chance of 20/20 vision, wide eyes have a higher chance of mental instability and why ppl view it as creepy, a small nose means youth because the cartilage in the nose typically gets fatter as you age, youth is attractive because they have a higher chance of not producing a defective child, people with a more semetrical face actually have better genetics; they are less likely to have mental or physical disorders, etc. I've heard this kind of thing a lot, and the first question I always have is how different cultures have such different standards of physical attractiveness if attractiveness is directly linked to health and fertility. Also, maybe let's not refer to children with disabilities or illnesses as "defective." We're talking about people, not appliances. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Tarfeather, I totally understand where you are approaching this debate from, and I agree that stereotyping people from their appearance is wrong, and the idea of discriminating against people because of their genes is wrong. But, and I say this whilst awaiting diagnosis of a chromosomal disorder, I can see the argument that aesthetic attraction towards someone with Kallman's syndrome, Turner Syndrome, Edward's Syndrome, and Down's syndrome to name but four may be diminished. To people who don't "judge a book by its cover" and spend a little time getting to know anybody, rather than making snap judgements these enlightened few will see beyond the physical and connect with the intellectual. However, taking a large dose of reality here, the first thing most people see in a potential partner is aesthetic appeal Link to post Share on other sites
Star Bit Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Please educate myself? I have, that's where i got the information. Exactly what's incorrect about it?I'm not saying ppl with opposite of mentioned qualities/autistic people should not reproduce, I'm saying that's how the subconscious works. Some things are genetic and some aren't. The subconscious can't decipher between the two. Sorry about the defective wording, i couldn't think of a less offensive word at the time. I tried to be simplistic but it looks like there's no simplistic word here that is also unoffensive so i guess I'll just spell it out as mental and physical disorders. Link to post Share on other sites
Lost247365 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes, and for a very good reason. What are percieved as good looks are actually instinctually and subconciously traits of good genetics/what should be passed down. Muscle means you can protect them, good eyes are literally good eyes; they have a higher chance of 20/20 vision, wide eyes have a higher chance of mental instability and why ppl view it as creepy, a small nose means youth because the cartilage in the nose typically gets fatter as you age, youth is attractive because they have a higher chance of not producing a defective child, people with a more semetrical face actually have better genetics; they are less likely to have mental or physical disorders, etc. You are right for the most part, but I think it is important also to point out that "good genes" is quite subjective. In evolution there are traits are quite detrimental that get passed on and flourish in a population. These traits are sometimes linked with desirable traits or are selected simply because they are seen as being desirable by mate, ie sexual selection. This is best seen in animals like birds who develop very beautiful, but not necessarily helpful, feathers and plumage in order to impress opposite sex members of their species. A bright plumage may impress females but it also means that they and their offspring are far easier to spot and be devoured by predators. Further, just because a trait is "better" for the now does not mean they will be "better" long term. Many, many, many species have gone extinct because they evolved traits that were not flexible enough to allow them to survive a changing environment. In humans of European ancestor, traits like fair skin and light colored hair are a good example of this. These traits are recessive and the dominant traits of dark skin and hair color provide much better protection against the sun and things like skin cancer. Based on this we would expect fair skin and hair to die out. However, rather than do this they thrived and spread across Europe due to the fact that Europeans found these traits attractive. The sexual selection pressure outweighed the survival cost of these traits and then some. Sorry for the aside. Just found your comment interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Star Bit, I see exactly where you're coming from here. Genetics or not, in most people there is something within the subconscious that , putting things politely, turns us away from anything which deviates from what we expect others to be. TW- this may go against the egalitarian policies of AVEN most people with Downs syndrome I feel uncomfortable looking at, I am not proud of this, just being honest. In the same way I find non-cis people to be attractive, possibly because I am one myself. To everyone, the point that the likelihood of a chromosomal anomaly in a child increases with maternal age is true, so I cannot rule out an instinct which prefers younger females as partners, but equally it could just be down to ego and bragging rights. Link to post Share on other sites
The littlest Deer Rat Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't normally hang around people like because they are boring. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Bit Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I forgot to mention this in my first post, and i added a bit more to it, but this may be an explanation for your discomfort. Along with an unsymmetrical face being caused by this, disorders can be symptoms of a parasite; internal or external. Some can even be caused by disease. People normally steer clear of others with parasites and such damaging diseases; they don't want to catch it. Down syndrome isn't caused by this obviously and I'm not saying you actively think this, but this may be why your mind is subconsciously pushing you away from them. Link to post Share on other sites
Splatacus Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 This is something that annoys me greatly that young people my age only care about looks (18-21) it makes me sad that they are so shallow. It annoys me more that its impossible for me to fit into their extremly small list of qualities that are attractive. Its impossible for me to build muscle due to being really skinny and having an overactive metabolism so even with protein shakes and a qualified trainer i put nothing on. So i am destined to be 'ugly' and alone for ever accoeding to them. Why are people so shallow and horrible. It makes me really upset they think that and i have just kind of recovered from a long string of sadness this doesent help. "Those that mind, don't matter, and those that matter, don't mind." While sadly it does seem to be the majority, not everyone is the same. I don't, and I know others who don't, judge people solely on their looks. There will be people out there who will like you for who you are, not what you look like, they're just a bit harder to find. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 @Star Bit: What Lost247365 said is what I mean. They only scratch the surface with what they said, but it already makes quite clear that from a scientific perspective, the concept of "good" genetics is utter bull. I furthermore take issue with the fact that you said "for good reason". To take your own example, no, it is certainly not a "good reason" to think of someone as unattractive because they have e.g. an unsymmetrical face. It's an old/evolutionary/instinctive reason, but that doesn't mean it's a good one, just the same way that my sexual urges aren't a "good reason" to violate someone, even though that is the exact evolutionary/genetic/animalistic "intention"/"purpose" of these urges. For example, if you're worried that someone has parasites, there are doctors these days who can figure that stuff out, you don't need to go solely by your subconscious instincts. I'd like to think we as a human race can make our own decisions and are no longer helpless to something so mindless as instincts and the like.. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 @Skycaptain: Of course that kind of stuff will affect attraction. There is no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean we can't consciously change our own perspective and become less biased about physical properties. It's just saddening that a lot of people who are smart enough that they should know better, don't even bother to. Link to post Share on other sites
Trolley Girl Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I completely hear this. Even though I am not afraid to admit that I am not the most attractive 28-year-old man, being slightly overweight (225 lbs is a bit pushing it, even for 5'11"), what gets me is the flattery that some people throw around. The thing is, it seems to bother some people that I've come to terms with the fact that I am not what they would consider "good looking" as opposed to a lack of self-esteem. But true, this generation clearly places WAY too high of a focus on looks, and don't value personality as much as they should. Link to post Share on other sites
Trolley Girl Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Also, I might have mentioned this elsewhere (or I may not have), this barber I used to see a lot has a picture frame with a printed sign in his shop that says: "Perception is 80 percent visual. An opinion is formed within 30 seconds." How many people agree with this? :D Link to post Share on other sites
Skippy Squirrel Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Also, I might have mentioned this elsewhere (or I may not have), this barber I used to see a lot has a picture frame with a printed sign in his shop that says: "Perception is 80 percent visual. An opinion is formed within 30 seconds." How many people agree with this? :D I've heard of it being as little as 12 seconds. Link to post Share on other sites
Trolley Girl Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Also, I might have mentioned this elsewhere (or I may not have), this barber I used to see a lot has a picture frame with a printed sign in his shop that says: "Perception is 80 percent visual. An opinion is formed within 30 seconds." How many people agree with this? :D I've heard of it being as little as 12 seconds. Wouldn't doubt it for a second. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I think everyone forms some kind of opinion of the other within seconds. Though it would be weird if that opinion would not quickly change as new information about the other starts to override previous assumptions. Link to post Share on other sites
Autumn Season Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't think we should ignore this thing called beauty and aesthetics. - It exists. And it does influence us in good and bad ways. - But at the same time society shouldn't put so much importance in looks. A person has so, so many qualities. To concentrate on appearance alone is... well, shallow. (But I'd rather call it stupid, the narrow-minded kind.) Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't think we should ignore this thing called beauty and aesthetics. Oh, I think we should ignore it, but unfortunately it's not that easy. *grins and hides in corner before getting slapped* Link to post Share on other sites
Copper Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I think beauty can be a nice thing to appreciate. But it bugs me when the media only portrays one type of beauty. Sometimes my friends come up with the hypothetical perfect guy. Each of them include different physical features. And characteristics that I find aesthetically attractive can differ from what my friends find attractive as well. One person's ugly is another person's beautiful. To shame any person's physical appearance is sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Bit Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 The statement was "society only cares about looks" so i replied with "yes, for a very good reason" because they are signs of fertility and health and most likely will further the species with healthy offspring. Sounds like a good reason to me. I said nothing about condoning hate. The OP said nothing about hate but did imply neglect.Also, is the OP explicitly being called ugly or are they just saying he's not hot? Link to post Share on other sites
Skippy Squirrel Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I think beauty can be a nice thing to appreciate. But it bugs me when the media only portrays one type of beauty. Sometimes my friends come up with the hypothetical perfect guy. Each of them include different physical features. And characteristics that I find aesthetically attractive can differ from what my friends find attractive as well. One person's ugly is another person's beautiful. To shame any person's physical appearance is sad. I agree. I alluded to this in a discussion on another site but society does seem to have an obsession with there being One Right Way™ for a lot of things, including beauty, especially when it comes to women. Link to post Share on other sites
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