Gender inclusivity fails

[Prairie]

Figured I'd collect screenshots of websites that fail at being gender-inclusive, since I run into them so much. Please contribute.

(Yeah, I chose Dr since that's inclusive, but I'm not really a doctor. I guess Toyota tends to get customers who are uneasy without being referred to by their titles.)

(Ironically in an email Nextdoor said that "We ask for gender so that the emails we send to members are properly formatted with the correct pronoun." In other words, not having this requirement would allow them to address everyone at least correctly by just referring to them by their names. The horror of not having a gendered prefix!)

Funny because LEGO makes a significant deal about being gender-inclusive.

[Amy Ghost]

I don't get why do they still do this. I mean, it's been know for several years that many people don't identify with this stereotype. This simply doesn't work and it is rather ignorant towards people. This is not the 19th century, they should start acting like it. Some people don't identify with either of tese two, so what? What is the big deal. We all have seen that they can acommodate more sexual orientations, so why not also gender identities? This should so change. I consider myself a woman, but I like to put before it trasn. Trans woman. I know there are more important ones, it's just an example.

[ThaHoward]

Email them or something, posting it here won't help much.

[Amy Ghost]

Email them or something, posting it here won't help much.

Could be done. but the truth is that it is widely known and they themselves could actually think of being more respective

[kelico]

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

But you're right...these companies should be more inclusive...but it seems that non-binary genders and neutral pronouns etc. are still not widely known or accepted yet. : (

[Amy Ghost]

It could at least say "other." I know it's far from perfect, but it'd be something

[.,.]

If you're not in the/any gsrm-community; this isn't the sort of thing you're normally thinking of. And also there's probably a lot of people confused on what options there actually are; first of all you would need like 20 options to include every one, and you can also be sure that all of the 20 options would offend someone. But yeah, let's all contribute and raise awareness :D

[Prairie]

Email them or something, posting it here won't help much.

As I say in my first post, I do email them.

And, posting them here allows us to discuss them and have social interaction around them. There's more than just the issue of those options not being on the website, i.e. it's not just a practical problem to be solved. I've already encountered the sites and I'm annoyed about them. Expressing this to others helps relieve that annoyance, which leads me to feeling confident and ready to contact the companies in a less triggery state of mind. I tend to think that others venting here will also benefit them in similar ways. Trying to contact a company when I'm fuming tends to result in me lashing out at them and them being less-likely to take the matter seriously.

Also, companies DO search the web and seeing a discussion like this would carry some weight (I've gone into the original post and made sure I mention the names of each company in text so they might find it if they search for gender issues with their company).

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

The ultimate gender neutrality is to not even specify it. No salutation, no field showing gender in one's profile, etc. I regularly see options like N/A, not specified, I'd rather not say.

irst of all you would need like 20 options to include every one, and you can also be sure that all of the 20 options would offend someone.

I suppose some people will be offended that they include some gender identities but lump theirs into some "other" grouping. To me that's an issue of not being accurately represented, whereas only having male/female required is about having to choose one of two things, both of which are just plain wrong.

[Agape]

Can you imagine the frenzy that Fox news would whip up if Lego put Girl, Boy, Other?

I mean, yeah, it's not right, but I totally get why companies do it. Better not even to ask...

[Calligraphette_Coe]

I once contributed a LOT of supportive posts to a Yahoo group called "No Transition". Slowly, the grouped morphed into a support group frequented by people who WERE transitioning and some were almost snobbish about it.

An actual post by a moderator, who was not transitioning when the group was formed, but later had a change of heart and was then post op, quoted a statement by a British SRS doctor:

HRT separates the women from the boys.

Everyone who protested this was basically silenced. A lot of people agreed that it was hurtful, but the status quo was 'we don't make the rules, that's just the way the world works.'

I'm almost loathe to being this up, but.....

Charity begins at home.

It's gotten quite a bit better, but sexism is still firmly in place in some of places in this community. All you have to do is read the Wikipedia page on 'transgender' to spot almost the same thing as was on the websites.

[Grumpy Alien]

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

But you're right...these companies should be more inclusive...but it seems that non-binary genders and neutral pronouns etc. are still not widely known or accepted yet. : (

I feel like the salutation thing is... stupid. I'm cisfemale but I don't really care if you address me as Jane Doe or Jane. I'm not going to freak out if you don't say Miss Jane Doe or Miss Doe. And Dr. is such a weird thing to include there in my opinion. I've always wondered what business it has in these things. Your degree doesn't matter when filling out account info forms! That's just pretentious.

[butterflydreams]

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

But you're right...these companies should be more inclusive...but it seems that non-binary genders and neutral pronouns etc. are still not widely known or accepted yet. : (

I've actually seen "Mx" be a pretty common neutral one actually. Though I've never seen it listed on any website form that I can recall.

I will say though that I was making a soundcloud account the other day and they had like, male, female, neither(?), other(?), and decline(?) I think...or something like that. Basically you pretty much definitely had an option no matter what.

*puts on web developer hat*

Really, the solution here is to change the salutation field to be a free form text field. Then people can type in whatever they want. Does it really matter? Any automated email sent to the customer will be built programmatically, and will just build their name with the salutation they requested.

As for gender options...why do companies need to know that? Marketing purposes? I can't think of any others. Listen companies...take a lesson from Subaru in the late 90s. They realized, "hey, you know, no car company out there really advertises to lesbians and gays. They're just leaving that entire market on the table! We should make ads specifically geared to them!" And voila...they did and now (I believe this is still true) the Forester is the top selling car among lesbians. And you have great commercials like these:

and this is the one I always remember:

So listen companies, you're leaving all kinds of non-binary and otherwise gendered people on the table. That's money on the table you can take, and you're not. What would your shareholders say???

[Sutaomiiru]

My social studies teacher was really confused when he were going with some students to Kebnekaise, because the flight company was asking how many boys and girls there would. The heck does that have to do with anything?

[Heart]

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

But you're right...these companies should be more inclusive...but it seems that non-binary genders and neutral pronouns etc. are still not widely known or accepted yet. : (

Like Hadley, I have seen Mx used, mostly in the UK actually. Sometimes you can also choose "Prefer not to say" and then the email will automatically do a "Sir/Madam" or "Mr/Ms" thing (usually). That's all I've got... :(

I once contributed a LOT of supportive posts to a Yahoo group called "No Transition". Slowly, the grouped morphed into a support group frequented by people who WERE transitioning and some were almost snobbish about it.

An actual post by a moderator, who was not transitioning when the group was formed, but later had a change of heart and was then post op, quoted a statement by a British SRS doctor:

HRT separates the women from the boys.

Everyone who protested this was basically silenced. A lot of people agreed that it was hurtful, but the status quo was 'we don't make the rules, that's just the way the world works.'

I'm almost loathe to being this up, but.....

Charity begins at home.

It's gotten quite a bit better, but sexism is still firmly in place in some of places in this community. All you have to do is read the Wikipedia page on 'transgender' to spot almost the same thing as was on the websites.

That is one of the most bigoted things I've seen in a long time. I'm so sorry things like that exist... but that's why I'm here. By my very presence, I hope to slowly influence things in the right direction of happiness for as many as I can.

[butterflydreams]

I once contributed a LOT of supportive posts to a Yahoo group called "No Transition". Slowly, the grouped morphed into a support group frequented by people who WERE transitioning and some were almost snobbish about it.

An actual post by a moderator, who was not transitioning when the group was formed, but later had a change of heart and was then post op, quoted a statement by a British SRS doctor:

HRT separates the women from the boys.

Everyone who protested this was basically silenced. A lot of people agreed that it was hurtful, but the status quo was 'we don't make the rules, that's just the way the world works.'

I'm almost loathe to being this up, but.....

Charity begins at home.

It's gotten quite a bit better, but sexism is still firmly in place in some of places in this community. All you have to do is read the Wikipedia page on 'transgender' to spot almost the same thing as was on the websites.

That is one of the most bigoted things I've seen in a long time. I'm so sorry things like that exist... but that's why I'm here. By my very presence, I hope to slowly influence things in the right direction of happiness for as many as I can.

Agreed on that being a horrible thing to say and the enforce onto a community. Sometimes I wonder if this tiny little space is all there really is that's safe. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I put up a tough exterior most of the time, but deep down, I'm very fragile. Hearing things like this does make that fragile core a little scared. I feel like I constantly have to remind myself, "there's the outside world, and then there's you. These things are separate. Just keep doing you...just keep doing you"

Ahh...had to say that, hopefully not derailing too much :P

[cosmosredshift7]

Yeah, Mx is a gender neutral title, and I prefer it to anything else. Would be great if more than just the UK would implement it, but there are still states in the US where you can be fired/evicted for not being cishet (including my own ), so I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Even at my own college, it is still not at all required for there to be more than two gender options on senior capstone survey projects; something that I was looking to change before graduating.

[dash]

I took a survey the other day that was super inclusive (thank you, Brandeis University!). For respondent gender, they offered male, female, and other, with an open-response field. Then when they asked about family members, all the terms were gender neutral, so to select mother, you would select parent, and then it offered the same three gender options (male, female, other with open response), and then one would say "female," and it would proceed from there. You could list as many adults in the different categories (including "other" for a relationship not listed) as there are for each adult in your household. (I think a poly family living together would have been able to enter everyone, for example, especially with the "other" option, since only one person at a time can be a legal spouse.)

Later they asked about LGB identity. But they didn't directly ask about transgender! So if someone was binary and trans, they would be counted in the survey the same as if they were binary and cis. Also, for whatever reason, grandparents were not listed in the list of family members one could be living with, and had to be entered by hand under "other."

But overall, this had to be the most non-binary inclusive survey I've taken, at least outside of the ace + non-binary community.

[Heart]

I took a survey the other day that was super inclusive (thank you, Brandeis University!). For respondent gender, they offered male, female, and other, with an open-response field. Then when they asked about family members, all the terms were gender neutral, so to select mother, you would select parent, and then it offered the same three gender options (male, female, other with open response), and then one would say "female," and it would proceed from there. You could list as many adults in the different categories (including "other" for a relationship not listed) as there are for each adult in your household. (I think a poly family living together would have been able to enter everyone, for example, especially with the "other" option, since only one person at a time can be a legal spouse.)

Later they asked about LGB identity. But they didn't directly ask about transgender! So if someone was binary and trans, they would be counted in the survey the same as if they were binary and cis. Also, for whatever reason, grandparents were not listed in the list of family members one could be living with, and had to be entered by hand under "other."

But overall, this had to be the most non-binary inclusive survey I've taken, at least outside of the ace + non-binary community.

Wow. That's beautiful. Though I currently don't live with any of my partners, one day it may happen, and it would be beautiful and amazing to be able to openly acknowledge that on a survey!

Massive brownie points for them!!! For gender inclusivitiy, for poly inclusivity and just in general for inclusivity!

[DiEvAl]

And the same options in the other box, except there are also generic "Male" and "Female"

(saw it in this thread)

[BusTotem]

Wow, so they sliced out both aces and NBs in the same question? Yeesh.

Hey, is there any good methods texts I can easily get my hands on and cite for including NBs in studies?

[Heart]

And the same options in the other box, except there are also generic "Male" and "Female"

(saw it in this thread)

....If I really wanted just a "friend", then why would I care about their sexual orientation? I mean, also, why would I care about their gender or sex?

I think this question is just generally completely irrelevant. It should ask "I want a friend who: cooks cake OR cooks pie". End of story. Let's get to the important points, people! ;)

[littlepersonparadox]

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

But you're right...these companies should be more inclusive...but it seems that non-binary genders and neutral pronouns etc. are still not widely known or accepted yet. : (

there are actually gender inclusive titles that have been made for this purpose although they aren't used often enough in mainstream/official use to get enough acceptance. The neutral titles are Mx. where the x stands in as a wild card instead of r(male)/s(female). Mx. has started to be accepted as a official documentation title in England but only a few outside companies in england have started to accept it. Others are:

Misc- refering to a mix of gender.

well instead of listing them all here is a link: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Gender_neutral_titles

Personally i see why some people like gendered titles so i promote non-binary titles as well. However some people don't like being titled leading to a couple things:

1. if you ask for gender make it a text field

2. Make it optional

3. Do you even need the gender in the first place?

I think the reason they pull this info is becasue as my teacher points out nowadays data is worth it's weight in GOLD. Pull data from someone and you can easily sell it to another company.

additionally my schools surveys puts male, female, transgender. So not perfect but hey still they try.

[DiEvAl]

....If I really wanted just a "friend", then why would I care about their sexual orientation? I mean, also, why would I care about their gender or sex?

I think this question is just generally completely irrelevant. It should ask "I want a friend who: cooks cake OR cooks pie". End of story. Let's get to the important points, people! ;)

I'm not sure. Maybe if one want to be sure that their "friend" isn't sexually attracted to them?

[Heart]

Maybe, but that seems odd to me. Just because a guy is gay doesn't mean he is attracted to every other guy. And a straight guy might still feel attraction to a guy every once in a while. There's never any guarantee...

But I guess it could be a way to lower the odds.

I'd still much prefer to know how much experience they have with cooking ;)

[Otohime]

This may sound silly, but what would the gender-inclusive salutations/titles be? I mean, besides Dr. O: I can't seem to think of any lol.

Well, if you are including careers, they're almost all gender-nuetral. Reverend (Rev.), Professor (Prof.), Judge, President.

Of course, Dr. is not just someone who is a doctor, but anyone who has gotten a doctorate degree. That's always a bit confusing at times.

Anyway, there's also other gender-inclusive titles, but just an "Other" category would be fine.

Can you imagine the frenzy that Fox news would whip up if Lego put Girl, Boy, Other?

Probably. But seriously, if a company was worried about controversy, they could just have "prefer not to answer" as an option. Not perfect, but it'd be something.

As for gender options...why do companies need to know that? Marketing purposes?

Yes, marketing but companies also just want to know their demographics. They use it for all sorts of data. That's the reason they ask for age and ethnicity as well.

For example, if a company takes their recent data and learns that they aren't hitting their demographics they were expected, they can use that to change their marketing (what they advertise, how they advertise, where they advertise). A large company keeps track of all of it. As much as I think gender is silly, it is a factor in mass-marketing.

[DiEvAl]

Probably. But seriously, if a company was worried about controversy, they could just have "prefer not to answer" as an option. Not perfect, but it'd be something.

They could also "accidentally" replace radio buttons with checkboxes. I doubt there will be any media outrage about "a terrible bug in Lego website that allows their users to select both 'boy' and 'girl' simultaneously" :D

[Prairie]

They could also "accidentally" replace radio buttons with checkboxes. I doubt there will be any media outrage about "a terrible bug in Lego website that allows their users to select both 'boy' and 'girl' simultaneously" :D

Wonderfully subversive!

[Calligraphette_Coe]

They could also "accidentally" replace radio buttons with checkboxes. I doubt there will be any media outrage about "a terrible bug in Lego website that allows their users to select both 'boy' and 'girl' simultaneously" :D

Wonderfully subversive!

'Lego my gender!

And the call going out to fix it: "Escher! Get your butt up here and fix that software bug!"

[Prairie]

Haha, got this letter from White Wave, where the lack of a title threw the form letter generator off (the black box to the right of it had my last name):

[dash]

Probably. But seriously, if a company was worried about controversy, they could just have "prefer not to answer" as an option. Not perfect, but it'd be something.

They could also "accidentally" replace radio buttons with checkboxes. I doubt there will be any media outrage about "a terrible bug in Lego website that allows their users to select both 'boy' and 'girl' simultaneously" :D

I think you underestimate certain segments of the population. :( I can see something blowing up and FOX News running a story about the "indoctrination" of children into the "gay/trans agenda" by letting them identify as both boys and girls when they buy toys from Lego. "Political correctness run amok! Death of common sense and traditional American values! Leave our children alone!"