What Makes You A Boy Or a Girl

[booksaremysexlife]

What makes you a girl? What makes you a boy? Clothes, ideas, what?!? I'm questioning about maybe being a non-binary gender and can't come up with what makes you a girl or boy. Cross dressers wear the opposite gender's clothes so what you wear is out of the question....

Opinions needed!! :D Thanks!

[ZUT]

I'd like to know myself. I don't dress based on my gender, and I don't wear cosmetics etc. I guess I look like a girl regardless. Sometimes I get called "sir" when I'm in my work suit ( a one piece Helly hansen pictured left) or in my cycling gear. Especially when I have very short/shaved hair. I don't correct them.

[Star Bit]

There is no answer because gender is mental/emotional and emotions don't translate into words accurately.
It's like asking someone to describe the emotion of love while not including what the emotion makes them want to do. They could respond with "soft/fuzzy feelings" but then you ask "what are those fuzzy feelings" and you've got no answer. The way i think of it is make an aray of men and women in your head that differ in masculinity to feminity. Think how it feels to be them; how their soul feels, not by its femininity or masculinity though. Do you recognize with any of them?

[marki]

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

[Guest]

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

[allrightalready]

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

and virtually no one has actually had a chromosome test, most often those declared assigned are presumed to have a Y and those assigned female have a presumed X, then in between people actually just get modified according to what is the easiest change to make

[Vega91]

I've struggled with that for years. I guess my best option is that I am a woman because I have female "bits" and I've never felt dysphoric about them. Genitalia does gross me out, but that's most likely due to being repulsed.

Honestly, I think it's just what feels comfortable. If you feel like a male, then you're a man, if you feel female, then you're a woman. And if you feel like neither of those fit, then you could be agender or bigender or some other nonbinary. Gender is such a weird construct, the way we behave, look or dress really has no effect on it.

[ithaca]

in between people actually just get modified according to what is the easiest change to make

Yes, and unless there are serious health concern (which is rare), it's an incredible cruelty to operate on intersex babies :( In fact, we call it "surgery", even "cosmetic", but it's genital mutilation if we want to call it with the proper name. And modifying or mutilating anyone's body without their consent is extremely cruel, in my opinion.

[Guest 80814]

They're just very widely recognised stereotypes, that a lot of people adhere to.

[Chardog]

The vast majority of people with a given set of genitalia tend to think and feel and perceive their world in a similar way. Those similarities are what we tend to identify as gender. Some people end up thinking/feeling/perceiving the world like those who have the opposite "parts".

I think reducing gender down to expression and stereotypes simplifies things too much. I couldn't care less about stereotypes and I dress both very feminine and tomboyish. My dysphoria doesn't come from what I see in the mirror, it comes from people who define my whole existence by the fact I have boobs and wear dresses/heels/makeup.. I have always felt clearly different and haven't fit in with other females. While the "box" I come in doesn't bother me personally, the content don't match.

[Misaki]

I consider myself a girl, regardless of the definitions that could be given (some could say I'm a demigirl, however, I'm not comfortable with that definition). Yes, I have somehow a boyish mind, but I don't see myself as anything else than a female. I think, in this case, what matters is how you identify yourself and how you feel about it :D

[marki]

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Huh?

[Copper]

This is something that I'd like to understand. I get that a person's gender might not match up with their biological sex, and I don't want to dismiss anyone who this would apply to. But I don't think of gender as part of my personality or inner self or anything. To me, the mind is genderless. I feel like if I had been born with male parts, it wouldn't change anything for me. So while I accept whatever gender identity people have, it's a difficult concept for me to understand. Again I don't want to invalidate anyone. But if someone could give a little insight on this that would be great.

[asymptoticfreedom]

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

and virtually no one has actually had a chromosome test, most often those declared assigned are presumed to have a Y and those assigned female have a presumed X, then in between people actually just get modified according to what is the easiest change to make

Not to mention that you can be XX but phenotypically male, or XY but phenotypically female, or have multiple arrangements of X's and Y's. Sex actually doesn't break down chromosomally at all.

[nerdperson777]

This is something that I'd like to understand. I get that a person's gender might not match up with their biological sex, and I don't want to dismiss anyone who this would apply to. But I don't think of gender as part of my personality or inner self or anything. To me, the mind is genderless. I feel like if I had been born with male parts, it wouldn't change anything for me. So while I accept whatever gender identity people have, it's a difficult concept for me to understand. Again I don't want to invalidate anyone. But if someone could give a little insight on this that would be great.

I guess you are cis-genderless. You would be fine with whatever body was given to you. I found it harder to explain dysphoria to a cis-genderless person, as my friend was accepting, but didn't understand my problem. We're really dedicated to this one club, and she asked me if I was ever going to come out to them. I tend to keep secrets so I wasn't planning to, and I don't want to be not accepted. Also, she asked if I was going to go to LGBT housing on campus next year, but I like living with her and the others. Until I get some hormones to make me infertile, I'll never be over the fear of the possibility of getting penetrated so I can't live with guys. I guess there's this idea that there's nothing to hide, at least to her. I have lots to hide.

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

and virtually no one has actually had a chromosome test, most often those declared assigned are presumed to have a Y and those assigned female have a presumed X, then in between people actually just get modified according to what is the easiest change to make

Not to mention that you can be XX but phenotypically male, or XY but phenotypically female, or have multiple arrangements of X's and Y's. Sex actually doesn't break down chromosomally at all.

Such as those who transition. They'll never magically mutate chromosomes so they'll always be how they are. I recall reading about irregular sets of chromosomes and there would be guys who find out later in life that they're actually somewhat female because they have an XXY or something.

[Jace Gem]

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Huh?

Transboys don't have a Y chromosome (if they're Pre-T). The only thing your chromosomes determine is your sex. Your gender does not = your sex. Sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears.

[DiEvAl]

Transboys don't have a Y chromosome (if they're Pre-T). The only thing your chromosomes determine is your sex. Your gender does not = your sex. Sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears.

As people said above, chromosomes don't always define what's between your legs. They only define your karyotype :P

[dandelionfluff]

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

[ithaca]

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

Close to none. Most MAAB (males assigned at birth) have XY and FAAB have XX. But not all of them, as some MAAB actually have XX and some FAAB have XY. And there's many other variables like XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. Since society has structured itself around the majority, the minority of intersex people have been oppressed, mutilated and negated the right to their identity (even the knowledge of it) for a long time. That is, in my opinion, all that is relevant to chromosomes. Acknowledging the reality of it (not the one society wants you to believe), the history of it, and learning from it to build a better present and future.

[Ace-TheTimelordsCompanion]

in between people actually just get modified according to what is the easiest change to make

Yes, and unless there are serious health concern (which is rare), it's an incredible cruelty to operate on intersex babies :( In fact, we call it "surgery", even "cosmetic", but it's genital mutilation if we want to call it with the proper name. And modifying or mutilating anyone's body without their consent is extremely cruel, in my opinion.

I agree. It is a sick society when most people agree that children should be older before they are allowed to get earings, piercings, tattoos, or even to wear makeup. Yet they are somehow happy to whip out the knives for intersex babies, and to 'circumcise' babies with penises.

Unless there is a serious medical problem, the only parts of a baby /child that should be cut are the umbilical cord (if needed), and their hair (and as soon as they can choose how their hair is, they should).

Edit: Oh, yeah, and their finger and toenails may need trimming too :D

[Ace-TheTimelordsCompanion]

I am a girl because I was born this way........

with a feminine brain between my ears.

I am a woman because Peter Pan refused to take me to neverland and I. Grew. Up. I am trying to reverse this process by eating lollipops and singing in public, however I am having limited success

[allrightalready]

This is something that I'd like to understand. I get that a person's gender might not match up with their biological sex, and I don't want to dismiss anyone who this would apply to. But I don't think of gender as part of my personality or inner self or anything. To me, the mind is genderless. I feel like if I had been born with male parts, it wouldn't change anything for me. So while I accept whatever gender identity people have, it's a difficult concept for me to understand. Again I don't want to invalidate anyone. But if someone could give a little insight on this that would be great.

I guess you are cis-genderless. You would be fine with whatever body was given to you. I found it harder to explain dysphoria to a cis-genderless person, as my friend was accepting, but didn't understand my problem. We're really dedicated to this one club, and she asked me if I was ever going to come out to them. I tend to keep secrets so I wasn't planning to, and I don't want to be not accepted. Also, she asked if I was going to go to LGBT housing on campus next year, but I like living with her and the others. Until I get some hormones to make me infertile, I'll never be over the fear of the possibility of getting penetrated so I can't live with guys. I guess there's this idea that there's nothing to hide, at least to her. I have lots to hide.

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

and virtually no one has actually had a chromosome test, most often those declared assigned are presumed to have a Y and those assigned female have a presumed X, then in between people actually just get modified according to what is the easiest change to make

Not to mention that you can be XX but phenotypically male, or XY but phenotypically female, or have multiple arrangements of X's and Y's. Sex actually doesn't break down chromosomally at all.

Such as those who transition. They'll never magically mutate chromosomes so they'll always be how they are. I recall reading about irregular sets of chromosomes and there would be guys who find out later in life that they're actually somewhat female because they have an XXY or something.

i am not sure anyone has actually compiled the numbers but i do not think transitioning is any more or less common in people with differences in sex development than those who transition in the whole population do.

@asymptoticfreedom we are actually making the same point but just using different language.

[AwkwardAntelope]

I've been thinking more and more about this lately in order to solve my own conundrum. I'm DFAB but I don't feel female, but I like some "girly things". There isn't a lot of "boy stuff" I've allowed myself to like or enjoy but I do dress as a dude. I didn't have a normal childhood so I don't know whether I gravitated towards a particular gender stereotyped toy or pastime. That said, recently I have come to grips with the fact that I feel like a dude. I don't know why. I just feel it.

[dandelionfluff]

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

Close to none. Most MAAB (males assigned at birth) have XY and FAAB have XX. But not all of them, as some MAAB actually have XX and some FAAB have XY. And there's many other variables like XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. Since society has structured itself around the majority, the minority of intersex people have been oppressed, mutilated and negated the right to their identity (even the knowledge of it) for a long time. That is, in my opinion, all that is relevant to chromosomes. Acknowledging the reality of it (not the one society wants you to believe), the history of it, and learning from it to build a better present and future.

But how is it even determined what chromosones one has? Is that determined at birth?

[ithaca]

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

Close to none. Most MAAB (males assigned at birth) have XY and FAAB have XX. But not all of them, as some MAAB actually have XX and some FAAB have XY. And there's many other variables like XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. Since society has structured itself around the majority, the minority of intersex people have been oppressed, mutilated and negated the right to their identity (even the knowledge of it) for a long time. That is, in my opinion, all that is relevant to chromosomes. Acknowledging the reality of it (not the one society wants you to believe), the history of it, and learning from it to build a better present and future.

But how is it even determined what chromosones one has? Is that determined at birth?

Only specific tests can give you the chromosome analysys. Most people don't have that done, and their sex is assigned by what their genitals looks like. With it, society also usually assigns gender identity, which is now becoming clear may not be the best idea, as gender and sex can be unaligned.

[WoodwindWhistler]

Gender is largely constructed, imho. We are "told" (i.e., societally programmed) that we should feel like a man or a woman, because those are largely presented as discreet categories.

When in fact, stereotypical traits of either are often mixed into individuals, especially depending on the environment they grow up in- whether it's flexible and accepting or more rigid.

What we feel should never explicitly up for questioning in the sense of dismissing- but where those feelings come from or what they are shaped by should be up for discussion.

For example, I am pretty sure that because I grew up in an "asexual" environment that nurtured my existing sense of self, I am the way I am. I can easily picture that if I had grown up differently, I wouldn't be feeling or identifying the way I do. I cannot "hop" over to this other quantum universe- I have to deal with what I feel here (and don't feel). I can point to a ball rolling down a hill and what sent it on that direction- but that incline- time- doesn't allow it to roll backwards. If people feel like "only" a man- whether they're physically male *or* female- it's not like you can flip a switch by merely suggesting that that feeling could be one formed by their experiences. It's just there.

Words and logic (and the little thing "ego" that sits atop our bigger underlying consciousness) only do so much to express and/or manipulate the really fundamental components of the mind, in general, really.

This is something that I'd like to understand. I get that a person's gender might not match up with their biological sex, and I don't want to dismiss anyone who this would apply to. But I don't think of gender as part of my personality or inner self or anything. To me, the mind is genderless. I feel like if I had been born with male parts, it wouldn't change anything for me. So while I accept whatever gender identity people have, it's a difficult concept for me to understand. Again I don't want to invalidate anyone. But if someone could give a little insight on this that would be great.

I guess you are cis-genderless. You would be fine with whatever body was given to you. I found it harder to explain dysphoria to a cis-genderless person, as my friend was accepting, but didn't understand my problem. We're really dedicated to this one club, and she asked me if I was ever going to come out to them. I tend to keep secrets so I wasn't planning to, and I don't want to be not accepted. Also, she asked if I was going to go to LGBT housing on campus next year, but I like living with her and the others. Until I get some hormones to make me infertile, I'll never be over the fear of the possibility of getting penetrated so I can't live with guys. I guess there's this idea that there's nothing to hide, at least to her. I have lots to hide.

Wait, repulsion is one thing, but if you're living in constant fear, are you seeing a therapist about that? Should you make decisions about altering your body, probably permanently, even partially, out of a sense of fear? I mean, I get that that's an issue for us women, and a MtF friend of mind has that fear even though she's way pre-op, but you may be accidentally over-saturating yourself with negativity about assault. It really does you no good to be constantly petrified- in fact, it'll deplete your emotional reserves and weaken your immune system- you should invest in some bear repellent (better than pepper spray) or maybe a taser and focus on your self defense (which I believe I remember you saying you were taking?). And letting go. You could be missing out on lots of interesting human beings and different experiences if you let it dictate too much to you.

Given what I know about you, if you don't have confidence that you would handle a situation you might find yourself in, I can't imagine why.

I'd say I'm a boy because I have a Y chromosome.

But not all boys have Y Chromosomes and not everyone with a Y chromosome is a boy. If you're cis then that's cool, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Huh?

Transboys don't have a Y chromosome (if they're Pre-T). The only thing your chromosomes determine is your sex. Your gender does not = your sex. Sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears.

Transboys don't have a Y chromosome if they're Post-T either, unless I've missed something!!!

Something I didn't say before- gender does partially arise out of natural differences between hormones, though. When trans people take hormones, they often feel more "naturally" fitted. So it's not so much that sex "dictates" gender, as hormones (produced by sex) often inform society's picture of gender, and individuals experience of it.

I am a girl because I was born this way........

with a feminine brain between my ears.

I am a woman because Peter Pan refused to take me to neverland and I. Grew. Up. I am trying to reverse this process by eating lollipops and singing in public, however I am having limited success

If you really want to reverse aging, look into meditation, chi exercises, and diet. /onlyhalfjoking

"FB thumbs up" for singing in public. :)

[butterflydreams]

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

Close to none. Most MAAB (males assigned at birth) have XY and FAAB have XX. But not all of them, as some MAAB actually have XX and some FAAB have XY. And there's many other variables like XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. Since society has structured itself around the majority, the minority of intersex people have been oppressed, mutilated and negated the right to their identity (even the knowledge of it) for a long time. That is, in my opinion, all that is relevant to chromosomes. Acknowledging the reality of it (not the one society wants you to believe), the history of it, and learning from it to build a better present and future.

Isn't most data stored on the last X/Y junk anyway? I'm not too much into biology or genetics, but I think I read that somewhere. I believe I also read that in humans (that for some reason male/female/other are just not that different) it's the hormones that do all the real work/destruction. And how convenient, that's something we can change with relative ease! :P

A sliver of me is curious about what I've got going on under the genetic hood. Yeah, it's probably XY, but I'd be lying if I said I was ok with that. I know it doesn't mean much, and I know what I am, but a part of me wishes body was actually clandestinely lining up with my mind somehow.

[allrightalready]

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

Close to none. Most MAAB (males assigned at birth) have XY and FAAB have XX. But not all of them, as some MAAB actually have XX and some FAAB have XY. And there's many other variables like XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. Since society has structured itself around the majority, the minority of intersex people have been oppressed, mutilated and negated the right to their identity (even the knowledge of it) for a long time. That is, in my opinion, all that is relevant to chromosomes. Acknowledging the reality of it (not the one society wants you to believe), the history of it, and learning from it to build a better present and future.

Isn't most data stored on the last X/Y junk anyway? I'm not too much into biology or genetics, but I think I read that somewhere. I believe I also read that in humans (that for some reason male/female/other are just not that different) it's the hormones that do all the real work/destruction. And how convenient, that's something we can change with relative ease! :P

A sliver of me is curious about what I've got going on under the genetic hood. Yeah, it's probably XY, but I'd be lying if I said I was ok with that. I know it doesn't mean much, and I know what I am, but a part of me wishes body was actually clandestinely lining up with my mind somehow.

no, all of the chromosomes have genes which are needed to express things about us, the final ones contain much of what is needed for the differentiation of (trying to word this right here) which one carries the egg and which one carries the sperm to fertilize the egg (in fact most of the triggering of what makes one the sperm generator is one gene which can actually end up on an X thus creating one of the differences in sex development - granted that one is very rare)

[scarletlatitude]

Depends on what you mean.

In terms of genetics, males are identified by a Y chromosome. Females have two Xs.

In terms of society (in most places), males and females are identified by their clothing, work, etc.

In terms of what really matters to you and your life, your gender is whatever you want it to be.

This chromosone stuff confuses me. How do you even know what chromosones you have? What significance does that serve?

Close to none. Most MAAB (males assigned at birth) have XY and FAAB have XX. But not all of them, as some MAAB actually have XX and some FAAB have XY. And there's many other variables like XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. Since society has structured itself around the majority, the minority of intersex people have been oppressed, mutilated and negated the right to their identity (even the knowledge of it) for a long time. That is, in my opinion, all that is relevant to chromosomes. Acknowledging the reality of it (not the one society wants you to believe), the history of it, and learning from it to build a better present and future.

Isn't most data stored on the last X/Y junk anyway? I'm not too much into biology or genetics, but I think I read that somewhere. I believe I also read that in humans (that for some reason male/female/other are just not that different) it's the hormones that do all the real work/destruction. And how convenient, that's something we can change with relative ease! :P

A sliver of me is curious about what I've got going on under the genetic hood. Yeah, it's probably XY, but I'd be lying if I said I was ok with that. I know it doesn't mean much, and I know what I am, but a part of me wishes body was actually clandestinely lining up with my mind somehow.

no, all of the chromosomes have genes which are needed to express things about us, the final ones contain much of what is needed for the differentiation of (trying to word this right here) which one carries the egg and which one carries the sperm to fertilize the egg (in fact most of the triggering of what makes one the sperm generator is one gene which can actually end up on an X thus creating one of the differences in sex development - granted that one is very rare)

*biology hat time*

If you are an average male/female (and by that I mean without any major genetic abnormalities to the chromosomes), you have XY for males and XX for females. What is important is that it is impossible to make a male without the Y. Even females with only one X still become female. Males with a ton of extra Xs (as in XXXY) are still male.

Hormones are proteins. How the DNA is "read" determines the protein. Then, the job of hormones is to deliver messages around the body. When you feel hungry, that is a hormone coming from your stomach to your brain, saying "hey eat something would ya?" ALL humans make the same hormones. (With the exception of people who have DNA mutations, causing the hormone to be absent or to not work correctly.) Males still have estrogen, females still have testosterone. What makes it different is HOW MUCH you have.

When the fetus is developing, there is a point where it either becomes male or female. If male, the mother's body sends in testosterone, which begins to direct the little boy's cells to become male. (The hormone sends the message that "this little thing should be a boy".) If female, that doesn't happen.

The X and Y do carry traits other than sex. For example, in cats (who also have XX and XY), the trait that creates the calico fur pattern is carried on the X chromosome. In humans, color blindness is carried on the X chromosome. But it is not true that X or Y contain any *more* traits than any of the other 44 chromosomes. And it's not true that a trait found more often in one sex is found on the X or Y. Male pattern baldness is found on chromosome 20. It has nothing to do with gender.

The best way to guesstimate what genes you have (other than an actual DNA test) is to compare what you do have to what others have. If you're body is male (even if you don't want it to be) chances are you have a Y. If your body is female (again, even if you don't want it to be), chances are you have XX.

[butterflydreams]

*biology hat time*

If you are an average male/female (and by that I mean without any major genetic abnormalities to the chromosomes), you have XY for males and XX for females. What is important is that it is impossible to make a male without the Y. Even females with only one X still become female. Males with a ton of extra Xs (as in XXXY) are still male.

Hormones are proteins. How the DNA is "read" determines the protein. Then, the job of hormones is to deliver messages around the body. When you feel hungry, that is a hormone coming from your stomach to your brain, saying "hey eat something would ya?" ALL humans make the same hormones. (With the exception of people who have DNA mutations, causing the hormone to be absent or to not work correctly.) Males still have estrogen, females still have testosterone. What makes it different is HOW MUCH you have.

When the fetus is developing, there is a point where it either becomes male or female. If male, the mother's body sends in testosterone, which begins to direct the little boy's cells to become male. (The hormone sends the message that "this little thing should be a boy".) If female, that doesn't happen.

The X and Y do carry traits other than sex. For example, in cats (who also have XX and XY), the trait that creates the calico fur pattern is carried on the X chromosome. In humans, color blindness is carried on the X chromosome. But it is not true that X or Y contain any *more* traits than any of the other 44 chromosomes. And it's not true that a trait found more often in one sex is found on the X or Y. Male pattern baldness is found on chromosome 20. It has nothing to do with gender.

The best way to guesstimate what genes you have (other than an actual DNA test) is to compare what you do have to what others have. If you're body is male (even if you don't want it to be) chances are you have a Y. If your body is female (again, even if you don't want it to be), chances are you have XX.

Woot! Thank you!

*software engineer hat time*

If I were designing the code for humans, I'd have done a much better job...seriously :P DNA and all that jazz seems so convoluted. Don't get me wrong, I love that nature is generally really good at solving problems, but sometimes.... It's like she never even did a code review! Sloppy sloppy!

I bet I could code in some option that like, if you decided male wasn't right, you could just take such and such chemical and it would activate stuff and boom, full female transformation and vice versa obviously :P And if you decided you didn't like it? Boom. Another chemical and old stuff would be reactivated. See...my design takes into account bigender and gender fluid people. Clearly superior.

Whaddya think? Should I send my resume to mother nature? :lol: