Sexual attraction, and what it entails?

[Torquil]

I know this thread is a little old but I wanted to say that I too prefer a definition that has more to do with desire than attraction. The reason for this is, I keep asking myself "what is attraction? Do I experience it? Have I experienced it?" and I really cannot answer those questions, however I can say with little doubt that I've never experienced a desire for partnered sex "outside of external influences" as someone else said above. The rare times I've had any desire for it at all it was a desire to please the other person and had nothing to do with my own libido.

Well said Ms. Frankenstein. I think that you're far from alone in being confused about "sexual attraction". I think one of the primary reasons is that romantic and aesthetic attraction can easily be misconstrued as sexual.

When everyone around you (society) tells you that feelings of sexual attraction are the norm, then you almost start to believe that you have them. However, if you push beneath the surface as ask yourself whether you actually want to have partnered sex with the person you are attracted to, it makes things easier to grasp that there's a gap.

[Guest]

Sexual attraction means you're sexually aroused by someones presence and you desire/have the impulse to do sexual things to/with that person.

You guys realize this definition means you already have to be, basically, hooking up with someone before you'd feel sexual attraction, right?

[Ms.Frankenstein]

I know this thread is a little old but I wanted to say that I too prefer a definition that has more to do with desire than attraction. The reason for this is, I keep asking myself "what is attraction? Do I experience it? Have I experienced it?" and I really cannot answer those questions, however I can say with little doubt that I've never experienced a desire for partnered sex "outside of external influences" as someone else said above. The rare times I've had any desire for it at all it was a desire to please the other person and had nothing to do with my own libido.

Well said Ms. Frankenstein. I think that you're far from alone in being confused about "sexual attraction". I think one of the primary reasons is that romantic and aesthetic attraction can easily be misconstrued as sexual.

When everyone around you (society) tells you that feelings of sexual attraction are the norm, then you almost start to believe that you have them. However, if you push beneath the surface as ask yourself whether you actually want to have partnered sex with the person you are attracted to, it makes things easier to grasp that there's a gap.

I agree. It never occurred to me that I didn't experience sexual attraction until recently. "You mean 'wow you have a great personality I want to hug and cuddle you' isn't sexual attraction?" (though honestly, I'm starting to wonder if I'm aro or maybe demiromantic because I don't think I've experienced romantic attraction either before I got to know someone and it's very rare.)

I just assumed that I experienced it. Not knowing what "it" was I had no reason to believe I didn't.

[Guest]

Sexual attraction means you're sexually aroused by someones presence and you desire/have the impulse to do sexual things to/with that person.

You guys realize this definition means you already have to be, basically, hooking up with someone before you'd feel sexual attraction, right?

Yeah that ^^

It's actually a pretty offensive definition of sexual attraction, like most of the ones floating around AVEN, when you look at what it means when it has to be applied to every single sexual person for them to be hetero/homo/bi/pansexual. Sure SOME sexual people are aroused by the presence of others, and this leads to a desire for partnered sex with them. But by no means does this apply to all sexual people.

Sexual attraction (as a defining factor for sexual orientation) is the desire to connect with other people sexually, for sexual enjoyment/release.

For example, someone might desire sex with the person they love as a deeply intimate, pleasurable expression of their love. This may have nothing to do with how the other person looks, or if their presence is 'arousing' (though sure for many sexual people in love, their partners presence is arousing as love often causes that experience) but at the end of the day it's desiring the act of sex as an expression of love, that's all. And sexual people often don't desire that sex with their lover until they have become close emotionally (as opposed to meeting their future partner and becoming instantly attracted to them in a way that makes them want sex) Some sexual people enjoy having sex with close friends (regardless of how their friends look) as sex is a fun, pleasurable activity that people can enjoy together. they don't need to be 'aroused by their friends presence' to experience this, they just need to have a desire for partnered sex, and a friend who feels the same and wants to have some mutual fun with this desire. Some sexual people enjoy a ''thrill'' sexually, so for example have casual sex with strangers they meet online. The motivation here is sex itself, what the other person looks like may have no bearing on it. Some sexual people do only have sex with people they find physically appealing in a way that causes them arousal, but this is merely one manifestation of the desire for partnered sex that some sexual people experience.

What all sexual people have in common is that to some extent or another, they desire partnered sex for the sake of sexual enjoyment/release (desiring sex to make a baby or to please a sexual partner are different, those are not sexual attraction. It's only sexual attraction if you have/want to have partnered sex because for whatever reason, you enjoy and desire it)

So the AVEN definition of sexual attraction is still my preferred one, as it is the most correct one: ''Sexual attraction is the desire to have sexual contact with someone else, to share our sexuality with them'' .. Sure it could be worded better, but it covers adequately enough what it is that makes all sexual people inherently sexual. Sexual people, for many varied reasons, desire partnered sexual contact for sexual enjoyment/release, and would rather have sex than not have it when desiring it, if given the choice (by that I mean, some sexual people choose to abstain from sex due to having an asexual partner or whatever, but that does not stop them desiring partnered sex at times. It does not change their preference to be expressing their sexuality with the person they love, even if they choose to repress that desire) Asexuals do not experience this desire for partnered sexual contact for sexual enjoyment/release (regardless of the level of their libido) which is what makes them asexual.

[WhenSummersGone]

For me as a Demisexual I see sexual attraction as someone specific that I want/desire to have sex with. I think the want or desire is more important because I don't remember thinking I was sexually attracted to my ex, I just knew I wanted to have sex with him. I just assume it was sexual attraction but it was the want I was thinking about.

[Ms.Frankenstein]

Sexual attraction means you're sexually aroused by someones presence and you desire/have the impulse to do sexual things to/with that person.

You guys realize this definition means you already have to be, basically, hooking up with someone before you'd feel sexual attraction, right?

Yeah that ^^

It's actually a pretty offensive definition of sexual attraction, like most of the ones floating around AVEN, when you look at what it means when it has to be applied to every single sexual person for them to be hetero/homo/bi/pansexual. Sure SOME sexual people are aroused by the presence of others, and this leads to a desire for partnered sex with them. But by no means does this apply to all sexual people.

Sexual attraction (as a defining factor for sexual orientation) is the desire to connect with other people sexually, for sexual enjoyment/release.

For example, someone might desire sex with the person they love as a deeply intimate, pleasurable expression of their love. This may have nothing to do with how the other person looks, or if their presence is 'arousing' (though sure for many sexual people in love, their partners presence is arousing as love often causes that experience) but at the end of the day it's desiring the act of sex as an expression of love, that's all. And sexual people often don't desire that sex with their lover until they have become close emotionally (as opposed to meeting their future partner and becoming instantly attracted to them in a way that makes them want sex) Some sexual people enjoy having sex with close friends (regardless of how their friends look) as sex is a fun, pleasurable activity that people can enjoy together. they don't need to be 'aroused by their friends presence' to experience this, they just need to have a desire for partnered sex, and a friend who feels the same and wants to have some mutual fun with this desire. Some sexual people enjoy a ''thrill'' sexually, so for example have casual sex with strangers they meet online. The motivation here is sex itself, what the other person looks like may have no bearing on it. Some sexual people do only have sex with people they find physically appealing in a way that causes them arousal, but this is merely one manifestation of the desire for partnered sex that some sexual people experience.

What all sexual people have in common is that to some extent or another, they desire partnered sex for the sake of sexual enjoyment/release (desiring sex to make a baby or to please a sexual partner are different, those are not sexual attraction. It's only sexual attraction if you have/want to have partnered sex because for whatever reason, you enjoy and desire it)

So the AVEN definition of sexual attraction is still my preferred one, as it is the most correct one: ''Sexual attraction is the desire to have sexual contact with someone else, to share our sexuality with them'' .. Sure it could be worded better, but it covers adequately enough what it is that makes all sexual people inherently sexual. Sexual people, for many varied reasons, desire partnered sexual contact for sexual enjoyment/release, and would rather have sex than not have it when desiring it, if given the choice (by that I mean, some sexual people choose to abstain from sex due to having an asexual partner or whatever, but that does not stop them desiring partnered sex at times. It does not change their preference to be expressing their sexuality with the person they love, even if they choose to repress that desire) Asexuals do not experience this desire for partnered sexual contact for sexual enjoyment/release (regardless of the level of their libido) which is what makes them asexual.

I like this description a lot, it makes a lot more sense than many. I do have a question though; there are a lot of asexuals who do have a libido and have sex and enjoy it, presumably because it feels good and they want to do it, but (they say... This isn't my situation so I can't say) they aren't attracted to anyone in particular. How does that fit with this definition? Does it?

[Guest]

I like this description a lot, it makes a lot more sense than many. I do have a question though; there are a lot of asexuals who do have a libido and have sex and enjoy it, presumably because it feels good and they want to do it, but (they say... This isn't my situation so I can't say) they aren't attracted to anyone in particular. How does that fit with this definition? Does it?

I have a high libido (an abundance of the hormones that cause arousal) .. I masturbate to get rid of the arousal (libido-release) because if I don't, my stomach gets tense and I get stressed etc. It's just a bodily function like peeing for me and if I didn't experience that tension, then I would not even bother with masturbation.

However, if I wanted to share my libido release with another person, for pleasure and enjoyment, but didn't ''find them sexually attractive'' (by that I'm assuming you mean attractive to look at? or do you mean ''wanting sex with them specifically due to traits the person has that I find 'arousing'''? those are some of the definitions of sexual attraction floating around here) anyway regardless, if I wanted sex with someone else, instead of just masturbating to deal with my libido and moving on with my day, then how is that different than any other sexual person who enjoys sex for the sake of sex itself? There are plenty (not all by far, but many) of sexual people who just love partnered just for sex for sex itself, because it feels good and it's a fun way to relieve arousal etc, and who they have that sex with doesn't matter as long as they know they are relatively safe with that person etc (that safety factor is not about arousal or preference, it's about knowing they aren't going to get murdered lol) .. So if someone who says they desire sex for fun an pleasure, but don't experience this mysterious 'sexual attraction' feeling that no one can agree on, how are they any different than the sexual people who just enjoy sex for the sake of sex itself, and don't care who that sex is with as long as they are relatively safe in their company? Due to the amount of sexual people like this there are (no all, not even most, but many) that would then make asexuality something experienced by at least about 15% of the population. How would it have been so invisible for so long, if so many people experience it?

Now I myself was identifying as fully asexual until recently (I am almost 27).. have never desired sex with another person for any reason (including partners, though I gave my sexual ex sex for 5 years as I figured it was expected of me, before I knew about asexuality, but never wanted or enjoyed the sex) have no enjoyment of the feelings of partnered sexual stimulation even when aroused etc.. If given the choice between ''having partnered sex with the person I love when aroused'' or just ''masturbating and then getting on with something fun like gaming or writing'' I would always have chosen the later. I just have no enjoyment of partnered sex, despite experiencing physical and aesthetic attraction to other people (I find certain people extremely aesthetically and/or physically attractive, I just never had any desire to have sex with them, despite having a high libido)

However, since meeting my new partner online a few months again, I have began to want to have shared libido release with him, mainly for fun but also because it's pleasurable. I would actually enjoy doing some sexual things with him very much, as long as my genitals themselves are not involved (I am not genital repulsed or anything, I just hate the feeling of someone else stimulating mine in any way). This new found desire to be sexual with him has nothing to do with libido increase (I have actually had a huge decrease in libido in the months since meeting him, due to massive stress happening in my life) and doesn't have anything to do with his looks (though yes, he is aesthetically attractive) it's just a desire to connect sexually with my partner for intimacy, pleasure, and enjoyment. I will be the first to admit I am obviously Grey or maybe Demi, but not asexual as I previously thought, as I clearly do under some circumstances desire partnered sexual activity.

I just don't see what is so hard about going with Grey-asexual as a label if you are someone who thinks you don't experience whatever 'sexual attraction' is, but clearly do desire partnered sex in the same way a sexual person does. If you are someone who desires sex for pleasure/fun etc a lot of the time, with different people or whatever, then I don't see how that's any different from a regular sexual person. If you only very rarely experience a desire to connect sexually with others, or only desire some forms of sexual contact on rare occasions, then I don't see the reasoning behind continuing to identify as 'asexual' when the Grey and Demi labels are there for a reason (those are the labels available for people who are not fully at one end of the spectrum or fully at the other, they are in the grey area in between) Or cupio, if you absolutely cannot bring yourself to identify as bi/homo/hetero/pansexual due to some weird issue with those orientation labels or whatever. There are many sexual people who are cupiosexual (not feeling 'sexual attraction', yet desiring sexual relationships - im assuming sexual attraction here means aroused by a specific person, just desiring partnered sex in general and preferring only to have that sex within the confines of a relationship) but they just identify as hetero/homo/bi/pansexual (depending on the preferred gender/s of the people they have sex with) because that's what they are. But yeah, some people like to use the label cupio as opposed to demi, grey, or sexual.

But an asexual is someone who just does not have any 'need'/innate desire to share their libido release with another person, ever (regardless of the level of their libido) As that is extremely, extremely rare for humans, it make sense that asexuality is such a rare orientation (only about 1-3%) and why it has been invisible for so long.

Anyway, that was my very long explanation as to my thoughts on people who ''desire sex because it's fun, but don't feel 'sexual attraction'. First, explain to me exactly what it is that such a person defines sexual attraction as, then prove to me that every single sexual person experiences that, which is the defining factor in their sexual orientation. That is impossible, unless we say sexual attraction is the desire to connect sexually with other people for sexual pleasure/release. Because literally every sexual person alive on this planet desires partnered sexual contact to some degree or another, in some forms or another, at some times during their lives. If they have literally never desired sexual contact and would maybe even prefer not to have sex ever if given the choice, then I would say they are just an unidentified ace who does not know about asexuality yet.

And by the way, when I say 'you' etc, none of my comments are aimed at you in particular Ms. Frankenstein, not saying you think any of the things I outlined here.. my 'yous' are just people on AVEN mainly, ''in general' heh

EDIT: My whole point was, I don't think someone like that does fit under the definition of asexual. Grey, Demi or Cupio if they must, but asexual? no. They only fit under the definition of asexual if we all agree that sexual attraction is a vague concept that no one can agree on, and that no one is sure if all sexual people feel it or not, and if you don't feel that, you are asexual. ie: Anyone who wants to be asexual is asexual, regardless of any other factor involved.

Sorry if this is utterly full of typos, I wrote in a hurry and will need to edit later as I must do my dishes!

[butterflydreams]

The rare times I've had any desire for it at all it was a desire to please the other person and had nothing to do with my own libido.

Heh, shoot, I haven't even had that

This whole question is a terrible rat's nest IMO. Ultimately, I have the good fortune of being able to look at my siblings and say, clearly something is going on with them that isn't going on with me. And we were raised all together, so whatever the difference is, it's innate.

I like framing it as a sense of desire. Wanna know what asexuality looks like? In what seems like another life, back when I was in high school. I decided that logically, it was getting weird that I was 17 and was never once really interested in a girl. So I looked around in school and tried to find someone who I thought was "cute". I found this girl who was a bit younger than me, but hung out in the same places I did. I engaged a program of information gathering for months. I obsessed over the whole thing like it was one of my other projects. Towards the end, I actually really did start to like her. I wanted to be around her. I made excuses to get rides with my friend so I could see her more.

Ultimately though, it was all contrived. I think I did genuinely like her, but that's where it abruptly ended. Officially, we were "dating" and she would've said she was my girlfriend if you had asked her, but it was all contrived. If you had asked me, "so now that you're dating, are you going to try to make out or have sex?" I think I would've melted from CPU failure. I could contrive everything up to real, physical interaction but to go beyond that would require some kind of desire and drive that I apparently just didn't (and still don't) have.

So that's what you get. This weird situation where I'm apparently into this girl, but in a really strange way. At best you could say I was looking for romantic affections and interactions like kissing and stuff (even though I would've balked at that too). I think what happened with that girl was that I was tired of looking different. Separated from close friends in college and beyond, and the desire to not look different was greatly reduced, and surprise, I did a whole lot of nothing in terms of pursuing romantic (to say nothing of sexual) partners.

[Ms.Frankenstein]

Now I myself was identifying as fully asexual until recently (I am almost 27).. have never desired sex with another person for any reason (including partners, though I gave my sexual ex sex for 5 years as I figured it was expected of me, before I knew about asexuality, but never wanted or enjoyed the sex) have no enjoyment of the feelings of partnered sexual stimulation even when aroused etc.. If given the choice between ''having partnered sex with the person I love when aroused'' or just ''masturbating and then getting on with something fun like gaming or writing'' I would always have chosen the later. I just have no enjoyment of partnered sex, despite experiencing physical and aesthetic attraction to other people (I find certain people extremely aesthetically and/or physically attractive, I just never had any desire to have sex with them, despite having a high libido)

This sounds like me. The reason I don't like the "sexual attraction" definition of asexuality is that I can't answer any of the questions you've posed! The whole concept of sexual attraction is about as clear as split pea soup, and every proposed definition makes it worse! People define attraction the way I would define desire and vice versa. I just know I don't really want to stick things in other things or do mouth things. 😂