Freudenschade

[SorryNotSorry]

Ok, let's say you're one of those people who considers yourself an authority on everything, and you're sure as shit that something either will or won't work. Here's the dilemma: when someone you know does something you think is impossible, or they succeed at something---perhaps so well that it improves their quality of life---then do you feel freudenschade, the negative feeling derived from someone else experiencing something which is positive for them?

It seems like there are a lot of people like that in my life. One in particular took it very badly when I recently achieved something it took me the better part of a year to prepare for (something which can dramatically improve my quality of life).

I can't understand why anyone would feel this way, unless they're just a shitty person or a sugar-coated control freak.

Thoughts?

[Prairie]

Asking the person who felt this way to say more would be a good start to understanding what lead them to the responses you got. If you ask non-neutrally, they'll pick up on it and it'll probably go poorly.

[SorryNotSorry]

I thought the word was schadenfreude.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Freudenschade

[Sally]

I thought the word was schadenfreude.

It is.

[Nevyn]

Can't we just call it envy?

[chair jockey]

I suspect that if I found a cure for cancer my brother would find a way to fluff it off as no accomplishment at all. He has a very deep need to see me in a negative light. Other than that, I don't know of anyone who comes close to what you've described. People get envious of success, but I don't know of anyone who actually _resents_ someone else succeeding.

And urban dictionary should be burned at the stake.

[Dakkon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dTF8fRh2A

[SorryNotSorry]

I suspect that if I found a cure for cancer my brother would find a way to fluff it off as no accomplishment at all. He has a very deep need to see me in a negative light. Other than that, I don't know of anyone who comes close to what you've described. People get envious of success, but I don't know of anyone who actually _resents_ someone else succeeding.

Hence freudenschade. "Envy" doesn't quite cover it; envy implies that you want what someone else has. Freudenschade OTOH doesn't mean you want something positive which someone else has, you just want it to be negative for them, for negativity's sake.

[Chemic]

I suspect that if I found a cure for cancer my brother would find a way to fluff it off as no accomplishment at all. He has a very deep need to see me in a negative light. Other than that, I don't know of anyone who comes close to what you've described. People get envious of success, but I don't know of anyone who actually _resents_ someone else succeeding.

Hence freudenschade. "Envy" doesn't quite cover it; envy implies that you want what someone else has. Freudenschade OTOH doesn't mean you want something positive which someone else has, you just want it to be negative for them, for negativity's sake.

From what I can find on the word (vague things at most) it's a word made up in English to mean more along the lines of feeling sorrow at another's success, not envy or wanting things to be negative for the one succeeding. For example, take someone who's lonely and wanting to be in a relationship. They see a couple nearby that's head over heels in love with each other, kissing, etc. and thus, the single person feels miserable simply because they view the couple as succeeding where they are not. They're not personally wishing negativity on the couple, just feeling bad for themselves.

[poindexter]

I don't think they have to be terrible people, but it might help sometimes :p.

Just thinking of ways to feel bad when others succeed without necessarily being douchebags - I might feel disgusted when a rich person spends their money frivolously, for example, or when a famous person gets married I might get annoyed that the papers don't cover more interesting stories. If my friend gets a job that could cause potential health problems or gets into a relationship with someone who doesn't like me, I would find it hard to be supportive, even if they seem happy. These negative feelings don't stem from wanting what the other party has but from different emotions eg. Anger, annoyance, disgust, fear, etc..

[ThaHoward]

I got better things to do in the world than annoy myself over celebs getting married or rich people spending money. If someoen have success and make good things, good for them. It would be silly, and very immature, of me to whine about that and become grumpy over something that 1) doesn't affect me and 2) is clearly positive.

[Guest]

I suspect that if I found a cure for cancer my brother would find a way to fluff it off as no accomplishment at all. He has a very deep need to see me in a negative light. Other than that, I don't know of anyone who comes close to what you've described. People get envious of success, but I don't know of anyone who actually _resents_ someone else succeeding.

Hence freudenschade. "Envy" doesn't quite cover it; envy implies that you want what someone else has. Freudenschade OTOH doesn't mean you want something positive which someone else has, you just want it to be negative for them, for negativity's sake.

From what I can find on the word (vague things at most) it's a word made up in English to mean more along the lines of feeling sorrow at another's success, not envy or wanting things to be negative for the one succeeding. For example, take someone who's lonely and wanting to be in a relationship. They see a couple nearby that's head over heels in love with each other, kissing, etc. and thus, the single person feels miserable simply because they view the couple as succeeding where they are not. They're not personally wishing negativity on the couple, just feeling bad for themselves.

Hm. I'd still subsume that under the word "envy".

But we AVENites are nothing if not fond of ever more discrete labels with tiny differences, aren't we? (Not even counting myself out there, hence the "we". ;))

[chair jockey]

I still think relying on Urban Dictionary to define your words is like going to a brothel, paying a hooker to dress up like a nun and then asking her to pray with you.

[Prairie]

What about using Urban Dictionary to help others understand what a word means when they are confusing it with another word that sounds similar?

[LaMaestra]

The only people I resent being successful or having what I can't are those I personally dislike.

[SorryNotSorry]

Examples of freudenschade:

When I happily informed my aunt I'd found a new site (eznamechange.com) to help me facilitate my future legal name change, her tone changed from warm to flat and unenthused ( :<_<: ). Best guess is that changing one's name is a huge no-no in the realm of maternal name-fetishism.

When I scored 95% on my building inspector exam, my co-workers at my old clerical job gave me dirty looks and treated me as persona non grata even more than before. Putting individual ambition into practice comes across as a rejection of the esprit de corps, nevermind the operations manager was more concerned with hammering square pegs into round holes than whether his underlings (including me) were doing good work.

[Autumn Sunrise]

I thought the word was schadenfreude.

It is.

Schadenfreude is a German word meaning malicious pleasure, or pleasure at the misfortune of someone else. Freudenschade is a word that was invented (in English) to mean sorrow/displeasure at the good fortune or success of someone else.

Freudenschade is not mentioned in my German dictionary (2001 edition), but may well have been adopted into the German language since then.

[Sally]

When I scored 95% on my building inspector exam, my co-workers at my old clerical job gave me dirty looks and treated me as persona non grata even more than before. Putting individual ambition into practice comes across as a rejection of the esprit de corps, nevermind the operations manager was more concerned with hammering square pegs into round holes than whether his underlings (including me) were doing good work.

Are you working as a building inspector now? If so, congratulations, and you don't have to think about your old clerical job anymore.

[kiaroskuro]

Schadenfreude is a German word meaning malicious pleasure, or pleasure at the misfortune of someone else. Freudenschade is a word that was invented (in English) to mean sorrow/displeasure at the good fortune or success of someone else.

Freudenschade is not mentioned in my German dictionary (2001 edition), but may well have been adopted into the German language since then.

I don't think so, I never heard anyone use this word in Germany. The first time I came across Freudenschade was somewhere on Wikipedia, I think. I was sort of surprised that the term has been coined in the English-speaking world, but then again I really shouldn't have been. The reversal of the two word components (Freude + Schaden) is unidiomatic or rather grammatically incorrect. "Freudenschaden" would make a little more sense, but it still isn't 100% accurate.

[SorryNotSorry]

The fact still stands that some people act like it's a real downer when I benefit from something that doesn't even affect them.