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Asexual Men Musings


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20 hours ago, Tuple said:

Ditto. Especially with being aromantic because I have absolutely no desire or interest whatsoever in dating or having a relationship.

 

I'm not sure what people at work think of my sexual orientation and I wouldn't be surprised if people think I'm gay. I often go to lunch hour yoga classes at a nearby fitness centre. There are lots of people from work there and I'm almost always the only man. Also, I' have a friend who is gay and he's told me several times that I dress well for someone who is not gay. And most people at work know that I'm single and I think they've started to notice that I never seem to have a girlfriend. I wouldn't be surprised if these things have the rumour mill working overtime on me. But I really don't care.

 

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Because I never went on dates or had a girlfriend or went to school dances, people at school suspected I was gay. It also didn't help that my best friend was gay. Although he didn't come out until after high school a lot of people suspected he was gay and since we were best friends they assumed I was gay too. The icing on the cake was Grade 12 and prom. I didn't go and my no show was noticed. The next day at school it seemed like everyone was coming up to me and asking me why I wasn't at prom and if I was gay.

 

I have a friend and I told him several years ago that I'm asexual. In spite of that, he can't or won't understand. He says things like, "Are you still celibate?" and I explain to him for the umpteenth time that celibacy is a choice and asexuality is not because you can't choose your sexual orientation. My friend also asks, "Are you sure you're not gay?" and I tell him for the bazillionth time I'm sure I'm asexual. It's really annoying.

I never had any issues in school or workplace. Mind you in the late 70s, there wasn't much in the way of LGBT commentary in high school. A couple of guys wore an earring which was an issue with most of us. At the school's 25th reunion (13 years after I graduated) I heard from one of my classmates that I had known since Grade 1, that she had encountered a former student (a year ahead of us) that had transitioned from male to female.

 

I never dated so I could've been a target. To add to your thoughts about prom, there wasn't a lot of pressure or status about going to it. We were a suburban school in a working class city. The prom was held at a local golf and country club. The next day after the prom, during morning announcements, the vice-principal was pissed to say the least. A few of the greens had been damaged by the girls walking on them in their heels and several of the hole flags were missing.

 

Everyone in my home room cheered and laughed. The general feeling was that the 'mucky mucks' had caused problems for the school not the 'usual suspects'. Imagine my surprise a year or so ago while talking to a female classmate that I was friendly with and have kept in touch with over the years. Somehow prom came up and she said that she didn't go. I told her I didn't believe it. She was a friendly, attractive girl that was very easy going. Nope she said, she never had a steady boyfriend and nobody asked her. She said it wasn't a big deal.

 

Your friend sounds kind of clueless (sorry) if you have to keep explaining it to him. 

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On 11/9/2017 at 8:09 PM, The Unknown Warrior said:

People have always assumed that I'm gay because of my lack of interest but I imagine that's quite a common thing for asexual men to experience.

Thinking about this for the last day or two. I'm of the opinion that society as a whole is hypocritical when it it comes to asexuality. In Canada (at least) we are constantly told that Canadians are very accepting of the LGBT community. If this is the case, why is it that if a male (or female for that matter) isn't sexually or romantically active or desire to be, the automatic assumption is that the person is gay (or a lesbian)?  Shouldn't people be supportive just that same of asexuals?

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I think it's more ignorance than hypocrisy, mostly. Some people have never heard of asexuality as we know it. And some who have heard of it don't believe it exists. I think it's harder for sexual people to comprehend that some people don't want sex vs just keeping quiet about who they want sex with. I think as asexuality becomes more widely known and accepted as a legitimate orientation the more people will come to accept it and be supportive. There have been studies which show that people are more likely to support gay rights or trans rights if they know someone who is gay or someone who is trans, respectively. I would expect that would hold true for asexuals as well. :)

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Yes, I agree that it's a lack of understanding. Kids today are perhaps being brought up with more awareness of the vast spectrum that is sexuality and gender but that isn't the case for even my generation and I'm 31. At least there are people trying to understand and support it now though! Of course, there will always be hateful people out there that oppose it. Some people also like to jump to the conclusion that these things are a mental illness rather than an actual thing.

 

The other day I read about someone that is white but identifies as a Filipino and says he's transracial. This is something I admit I don't understand but I pass no judgement and accept that's how he feels. It actually helped me see how people must feel when they read about someone that identifies as the opposite sex. I'm gender fluid and understand how horrible that feels, whereas it would be totally alien to a lot of people.

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@daveb and @The Unknown Warrior I would hope that asexuality would become more familiar to people. But I hope it is received better than the segment on The View where it was treated like a joke. Then people may be OK with the fact that some people have no interest in sexual activity or attraction (whatever the reason).

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5 hours ago, The Unknown Warrior said:

The other day I read about someone that is white but identifies as a Filipino and says he's transracial. This is something I admit I don't understand but I pass no judgement and accept that's how he feels. It actually helped me see how people must feel when they read about someone that identifies as the opposite sex. I'm gender fluid and understand how horrible that feels, whereas it would be totally alien to a lot of people.

This person was in the news across North America two years ago:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal

 

 

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A little reflection I wrote today:

 

I know what it's like to to experience both blatant and subtle homophobia. I have come to understand that I present a target for this kind of behavior in part because I lack an aggressive sexuality towards women/feminine people. The assumption seems to be that since I am far more interested in friendships, that I must be saving my aggressive sexuality for men/masculine people. This can even result in subtle comments questioning the gender of my partner or the veracity of our relationship.

 

This same set of assumptions can wreck the kind of intense platonic relationships I enjoy with guys, who ever wary of the possibility of aggressive sexuality ward off intimacy with cries of “no homo” .

 

I also know what it's like to experience blatant and subtle acephobia, mostly in queer settings, mostly from men. I have heard the suspicion that bi/pan identities are indecision or cowardice, holding onto a sliver of heteronormativity. There is my negative experience of trying to resist the aggressive sexuality of queer men, leading them to unqueer me. I have experienced the gender norm reinforcement that real men only cuddle after sex, if at all. I have had the frightening experience of receiving aggressive sexuality before I had a chance to consent, and the heartbreaking experience of emotional abuse after denying consent.

 

In all of this, I recognize a powerful structure at work, of systemic aggressive sexuality, primarily wielded by men, that forces everyone I connect with, especially women and femmes to question, “is he safe? Could it possibly be true that he wants to be my friend?” I am too in love with my partner to be faking it, too male to be safe, too queer to be straight and too ace to be queer. I find myself  longing for the construction of a healthy masculinity and a healthy sexuality of honor, consent, and gentleness. In the meantime, I hope to keep proving that I am not too dangerous to be friends.

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All these sexual harassment claims (and it’s a new one every day) really illustrates to myself just how asexual I really am. I would have never thought to approach any woman like that, but with the volume of charges it appears it actually is something men do and think about every day. 

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2 hours ago, Just like Jughead said:

All these sexual harassment claims (and it’s a new one every day) really illustrates to myself just how asexual I really am. I would have never thought to approach any woman like that, but with the volume of charges it appears it actually is something men do and think about every day. 

We also need to remember that there are plenty of sexual men that find that abhorrent. It would be terrible if men became too scared to approach women. This has already happened with how men are viewed when near children.

 

Being a man sometimes makes me want to curl up in a ball and die because of how in general we're seen as a threat and yet so many of us are kind and loving people that would never hurt anyone.

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Personally, I like to think that most sexual men wouldn't think of groping/making sexual suggestions to random unwilling people.

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I guess it's more common than most men know, but I hope it's less common than we fear. It does make me think about my past and wonder whether I ever did anything that caused distress for any women I knew. I like to think I didn't. I mean, I didn't do anything obvious like the various physical allegations, or lewd remarks or the like; but how can I be sure I never did anything inadvertently? I think it is something everyone should try to be cognizant in their own behavior.

 

It also makes me think about the arguments some people espouse in favor of so-called "bathroom bills". Brings up at least a couple of thoughts: 1. the claim is that girls and women have to be "protected" from transwomen? What about all of these straight cis-males?; 2. I suspect some of the people who make that argument do so because they know how perverted they would be given half the chance.

 

And it's not just men who are the perpetrators, and not just women who are the victims - although the percentages are probably more men as perpetrators (whether that's because there is a higher percentage of men in positions of power or for some other reason, I don't know. Probably a combination, I would guess.), and more women as victims (simply because more men are heterosexual than any other sexuality).

 

I also firmly believe a lot of this isn't news to women and girls (other than specifics about who, where, when, etc.), but has often been brushed off by many guys. Look at just last year, with "excuses" like "it was just locker room talk".

 

I guess things have finally reached a point where people are ready for it to come to light and have a national conversation. Hopefully it will all lead to a better place for everyone (except the predators).

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7 hours ago, Still said:

Personally, I like to think that most sexual men wouldn't think of groping/making sexual suggestions to random unwilling people.

Well it’s mainly men but I know first hand women can also be aggressors. 

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I had never heard of Harvey Weinstein before the initial accusations. Not to diminish this in any way, the whole thing sounds like the proverbial 'casting couch' scenario. "You sleep with me or else you don't get the role". He gives me the impression that if he was Joe Schmuck office worker, the average female employee wouldn't give him the time of day. To me he looks like a lout.

 

 

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9 hours ago, daveb said:

I guess it's more common than most men know, but I hope it's less common than we fear. It does make me think about my past and wonder whether I ever did anything that caused distress for any women I knew. I like to think I didn't. I mean, I didn't do anything obvious like the various physical allegations, or lewd remarks or the like; but how can I be sure I never did anything inadvertently? I think it is something everyone should try to be cognizant in their own behavior.

My fear of doing or saying the wrong thing to a female friend when I was younger pretty much precluded that from happening. I'd never think of acting untoward to a stranger.

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11 hours ago, will123 said:

My fear of doing or saying the wrong thing to a female friend when I was younger pretty much precluded that from happening. I'd never think of acting untoward to a stranger.

I never wanted to to do anything untoward to anyone. Ever. But I hear guys at work discussing co-workers in inappropriate ways all the time. That doesn’t mean they would act on anything, but it is talked about on a daily basis. 

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Shadowstepper

Over the years I learned to be good at "guy talk" or "locker room talk". Mostly to fit in where I clearly didn't. In a way it helped me to confirm that I only had an aesthetic attraction to women, not a sexual attraction. It also helped me get over social anxieties by interacting with people "on their level", as it were.

 

I did learn a few things of note in that time.

 

1) Most guys are harmless and would never actually act on any of the big talk. A lot of it comes down to 1-up stories. Any claim made in a group setting is measuring stick that other guys try to compete against. It's pretty dumb, but at the end of the day, no one means any harm.

 

2) Guys are stupid. Half the time they don't realize they've said something offensive, especially if it isn't pointed out to them pretty soon after. The other half the time, they misread the boundaries of the woman they are speaking to and think the comment they made is ok.

 

3) Some guys are just predators. They actually do believe all the things they say in the locker room and they have every intention of acting on it. There are some the it is obvious from the jump, but others only make sense in hindsight. Unfortunately, the predators have made it so that everyone is regarded as suspect, even if they never had the intent.

 

As for point 2, and this is something I've stressed when giving sexual harassment briefings at work, ignorance is no excuse. If you want to make off color comments to your friends, fine, but you need to be consciously aware of a stopping point. You have to pay attention to the things you say. Coming back at the end and saying "I didn't mean anything by it" doesn't work.

 

Additionally, like any good performer will tell you, you have to feel out your crowd. A comment made in private doesn't come across the same in public. An innuendo made to the secretary by a coworker doesn't give you the greenlight to start telling her you like how tight her jeans are.

 

Always assume it is inappropriate to say inappropriate things, until you are 100% sure it isn't inappropriate. Be a gentleman, always.

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Great posts @Just like Jughead and @Shadowstepper ! I worked my entire career in a factory. I heard and took part in a lot of shop talk. Even though some of the content was pretty 'bad', I never witnessed anyone acting inappropriate around female employees. I'm pretty sure the guys knew where the line was.

 

That being said, apparently some of my co-workers spent time in another plant in the area. Some of them had to deal with a situation created when a female employee acted like one of the guys and the guys let their guard down. The next thing they knew they were being called on the carpet due to inappropriate conversations. The employees in question and the female were transferred to my location after a closure. One of the guys pointed out the complainant to me and said to watch what I said around her. I told him it wouldn't be a problem since my job didn't concern her work area.

 

Not sure exactly how the guys figured out it was her other than maybe she was the only female employee in the area and/or she was the only one that knew of the 'off-colour' comments.

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On 20/11/2017 at 1:16 AM, Just like Jughead said:

Well it’s mainly men but I know first hand women can also be aggressors. 

Yep, for sure and first hand too.

 

What sickened me back then was that I was told to be proud to be physically hit by women, flattered.

And

"She clearly saw something in you when she showed you her underwear! Be proud mate!" (when there was actually underwear in some cases I should add)

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Some awkward Thanksgiving dinner banter.  Was told my wife is waiting for me overseas by my family in either Southeast Asia, or Eastern Europe and that they preferred Russian/former Soviet women for me because of their European appearance.  Basically a double wammy of racism and anti ace retoric coming from a very German family.

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I VERY nearly lost my cool, and was very close to educating the family about Asexuality, but didn't want to be a sideshow especially with children in the room.

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On 11/22/2017 at 2:38 PM, Nidwin said:

Yep, for sure and first hand too.

 

What sickened me back then was that I was told to be proud to be physically hit by women, flattered.

And

"She clearly saw something in you when she showed you her underwear! Be proud mate!" (when there was actually underwear in some cases I should add)

I think we've all got bad memories of things that have happened. Men are just laughed at for talking about it. Men are strong and women are weak after all, right?!  

 

I've had women/girls become aggressive when I've told them I'm not interested and they've even threatened to follow me home. It's really NOT ok and really creepy... I felt exactly as a woman would feel but people have laughed at me when I said it made me uncomfortable.

 

Other times I've had inappropriate sexual comments made about me, had girls flash their knickers at me and been touched. Yes, it does happen much more to women but men are also affected. We have feelings too, after all.

 

Rant over lol. I just needed to say it really.

 

My goal is to be seen as equally unattractive to women and men because I just want to be left alone.

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I have never had any inappropriate advances from any female. Nor ever been pursued or stalked or anything like that. All of the abuse I've endured in the past was inflicted by males (bullies in school physically assaulting, family members being verbally abusive and/or physically assaulting as the case may be; non-sexually). But that's just my experience. I don't doubt others have had different experiences.

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2 hours ago, The Unknown Warrior said:

I think we've all got bad memories of things that have happened. Men are just laughed at for talking about it. Men are strong and women are weak after all, right?!  

 

I've had women/girls become aggressive when I've told them I'm not interested and they've even threatened to follow me home. It's really NOT ok and really creepy... I felt exactly as a woman would feel but people have laughed at me when I said it made me uncomfortable.

 

Other times I've had inappropriate sexual comments made about me, had girls flash their knickers at me and been touched. Yes, it does happen much more to women but men are also affected. We have feelings too, after all.

 

Rant over lol. I just needed to say it really.

 

My goal is to be seen as equally unattractive to women and men because I just want to be left alone.

Been there. 

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Each day another man is accused of inappropriate sexual behavior. I guess the reason I’m confused by all of this is all my life I’ve been told my people, movies, magazines, etc., this was “normal” for men and one of the reasons I was always led to believe I was so abnormal. 

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Sexual behavior is normal. Inappropriate sexual behavior should not be. Also, normal in and of itself is not inherently good or bad. 

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I have been harassed blatantly at many jobs by women.  I would get laughed at by our superiors if I said anything.  I actually have and was shrugged off.  For the record women are 100% just as bad as men ever were, they just get a free pass due to the keymaster vs gatekeeper dichotomy.

 

I have had everything from direct sexual advances to women touching me inappropriately.  Every time all the men around acted like I was a hero, but inside I was recounting events to find where I slipped and caused her advance (because it's my fault.)

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Looking like a pound of ground pork has a lot of advantages :D

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1 hour ago, Homer said:

Looking like a pound of ground pork has a lot of advantages :D

I don't even want to know...

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2 hours ago, Homer said:

Looking like a pound of ground pork has a lot of advantages :D

Sorry, but this made me laugh (out loud)! :lol: 

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Hello. I don't mean to intrude, but I just thought it'd be important to mention that some women are aware that other women are abusive towards males or sexually harass others, too, because they've experienced it, themselves, and/or have seen them do that to others. (i.e., that we're on your side, too.)

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