Please help me to tell if husband is asexual

[Zephyr Aspara]

Hi everyone, thank you for listening. I am glad I found this forum. Let me first say that I am the sexual one, even though in most marriages I would probably qualify as low-libido after many years.

My husband and I are both reasonably attractive, height-weight proportionate, etc, in our mid-forties. Known one another for 19 years and married for 16. Have one lovely daughter. I love him very much. We haven't had sex for 11 months and a half.

Let's rule out his being gay for now; I am pretty sure he isn't.

He is really quite a beautiful man (recently gained some weight but still so good-looking that a couple of weeks ago a man came up to him in a bar and called him beautiful within my earshot). History: Has had around a dozen girlfriends and more sex partners. Told me that sex was an issue in those relationships; the girls eventually got frustrated with him and it became their deal breaker. But he never said before we married that he was not interested in sex or not wanting to have it, just that he does not have the raging drive men are supposed to labor under universally. We would have sex a couple of times a month; I was not thrilled, but given how much I love him and what good friends we were I was okay with that and count myself happy and fortunate to have found him. I thought all those girls were off their heads turning someone like that down.

Over the years, the sex died out. I know that is a familiar pattern, but he won't even kiss me or touch me physically, I think for fear he would kindle my desire. It's very humiliating to be treated like a hand grenade. I initiate all the hugs and kisses and cuddling, I mean all. Maybe once in a blue moon, when he is ecstatic about a raise or something, he would hug me. He offers his cheek to be kissed with a sort of graceful condescension.

I don't know if he is asexual or just resents me for past issues and is bored with me (I neglected him when we moved overseas for my job; I spent time with him, but was mentally checked out sometimes because of the stress.) It's probably hard for anyone to know for sure, but I thought I'll go to you experts.

[Zephyr Aspara]

I also want to say that I fully understand folks being asexual. I read a description somewhere that being asexual and forced to have sex is like being full and having your spouse hand you a quarter-pound burger and having to eat it for the love of them. I think I am sensitive enough to understand that sound and loving sex is never blackmail or charade or self-sacrifice.

The issue is I just can't live like this. I do not feel entitled to sex, it's not that. I am just starved for affection. He stonewalls me when I bring up the subject. About seven years ago we had a confrontation. I said I understand and appreciate his treating me like a princess, but I thought it was because he was making up for our rare sex. He was furious and told me he cried the whole night. I was very sorry. He then told me he was not into sex with me because I am boring and clumsy in bed. (I hadn't had a lot of sex partners, not because of religion or beliefs, just upbringing and the need for a deep connection with a bedfellow). He acknowledges that I am passionate, but too cerebral and unable to let go.

I've been trying to watch videos and gain some experience. He repulses me continually though. When I tried to kiss him he said he did not like the flavor of chocolate mint in my mouth. A bunch of straight men at a marriage forum told me to just strip and do the Cleopatra thang, but I think you'd all agree with me that if someone is not asking you into the front hall you should not scoot for the bedroom.

[whitesphere]

Did you talk to him about it? Only he can really know what's going on in his head. He's the expert on what's going on in there.

If his pattern has normally been he loses sexual interest very quickly, he MIGHT be an asexual who just pretends he's a normal sexual male because that's what's expected of him.

A lot of men refuse to admit they're asexual because it goes very against what is a "typical" man, so he might be strongly, deeply opposed to openly admitting he's asexual even just to you. That's why this website has 75% women (according to an AVEN Census). Women are more comfortable admitting they're asexual. Although they may get grief over it, it pales in comparison to the grief men get over being asexual.

You could point him to this website. There is a FAQ he could read which might help.

If he is absolutely SURE he's not asexual --- not an angry vehement denial, but a calm statement of fact after reading and digesting the FAQ, I would also talk to a couples counselor to resolve any issues in your marriage. It sounds like there are definite things to be worked through. I've read, with normal sexual couples, any unresolved emotional issues show up in the bedroom. Which is why sex, finances and in-laws are the 3 most common reasons for divorce, most likely.

[Zephyr Aspara]

Thank you, that's very helpful. Come to think of it, he has said that he just doesn't see what the big deal is about sex; he is just not that interested in it. It was almost like a straight admission of being asexual.

I will try to see if I can send him that FAQ without seeming like I am witch-hunting.

He's also told me I can go and have sex elsewhere, "provided he doesn't find out about it." He said he won't do that himself, because "he is not sure how he would feel the next morning."

[flesh-pocket]

know that if he is asexual, his blaming you for the lack of sex and other affection would be part of his denial. if hes asexual you could be the best woman in bed in the world and it wouldnt make a lick of difference.

regardless, his blaming you is manipulative. he is just trying to put the blame somewhere else whether it be because he doesnt have sexual attraction or just has emotional hang-ups that can be worked through, there is nothing physically wrong with you that is causing the problems.

i repeat- there is nothing wrong with you

[ByTheTracks]

Some of your description sounds a lot like me. I had a couple relationships that ended because my partners thought I was no longer interested in them because the sex became more and more infrequent. Early on when I was dating my wife she was very hurt when I suggested we didn't have to have sex every time we were together. I now feel terrible about that because she thought for a long while after that any disinterest I had in sex was purely because of her. It wasn't, and it isn't. Thank god I found this site because I have learned so much in just a month and I now have answers for MANY confusing experiences and decades of my life.

I would echo the suggestion that he check out this site. It might be a huge relief for him and give him answers as well. I certainly see a lot of myself in your description and wish I had known about asexuality long ago.

[Anime Pancake]

Hey!

Yeah I understand completely that it would be hard to go through that.

I know that many people will simply leave a relationship if there is not much sex. But to also hear that he isn't being physically affectionate at all, that makes it even more difficult.

I'm asexual, but I really find physical affection to be very important for me. If I was in a relationship and the person I was with didn't like hugging or things like that, it would feel really awkward for me honestly. Because that is one of the ways I communicate.

Anyways, communication is very important. I think it's good that you have talked to him about these things before.

If he is not wanting to talk about these topics, he is not helping to make sure the relationship stays happy and fulfilling for both of you....

Anyways, I'm not sure if he is asexual. I really don't know.

Generally, if someone never has any desire to have sex, I would think that they are asexual. So I guess you could talk to him about it and see if he feels asexual or not.

Communication is the main thing, so hopefully when you try to talk to him about it, he will be understanding and will talk about everything with you so that you two can see how each other feels and work on things together!

And like I said, I completely understand. If I was in a relationship with someone and they weren't showing me a lot of affection, including hugging and things like that, I would find it difficult and somewhat unsatisfying, unless we were able to find a way to decide on something together so that things get better.

I hope everything gets better soon!

[Zephyr Aspara]

Some of your description sounds a lot like me. I had a couple relationships that ended because my partners thought I was no longer interested in them because the sex became more and more infrequent. Early on when I was dating my wife she was very hurt when I suggested we didn't have to have sex every time we were together.

Does the following sound like something an asexual person may do?

If he isn't gay or having an affair, I suspect he is asexual. He came home looking rather anxious, and I gave him a hug to comfort both of us. He gave me a 45-minute talk about all my shortcomings: I don't heed his professional advice; I am too negative and critical; I have issues with authority; I am too tense; I am too sexually timid and that does not turn him on; we have been doing so well, why would I go and spoil everything? I finally told him about the hyperthyroidism just to explain why I seem unreasonably high-strung. I acknowledged everything he said, and promised I would do better. He hastens to add that he still cares about me and thinks that we will have sex again (implied.) He is right in many ways, of course, but not the sex part. What you all told me has opened my eyes.

I then pointed out that he has never liked sex, otherwise he would have been snatched up by one of his dozen of girlfriends. He denied this. (I know he told me this early on in the relationship, as a subtle way of sounding me out and seeing whether I would leave him.) I said I don't need to have intercourse itself, just physical affection, and the promise he holds out does not make sense given that, before some the problems he pegs emerged with me, we also did not make love much at all. I said is it because you just don't like sex? I would like to know that.

This was when a chink burst through his armor. He said I was saying hurtful and critical things, and attacking him in such a way that is precisely the reason he does not want to have sex with me. I told him this is not a one-way street. I would like to find out the truth; this is not my chasing you and trying to obtain a favor from you. I asked why, since he had been giving me constructive criticism for 45 minutes which I gratefully accepted, I cannot question this one fact? And by the way, if he rejects very mild romantic advances from me, where in the world am I going to frack to get that sexual confidence he wants from me? And I was not saying sex is absolutely necessary to me, we can tone it down and do other stuff, find a compromise somewhere, but we've got to start from the truth.

He kept on being defensive, saying such verbal acrobatics is not going to get me what I want, and then reasserted his ultimatum this morning. I said quietly, "I can see that." He looked a bit taken aback. DD came in for some homework help and he left.

Part of me still thinks that perhaps the reason he is so sweet and good is the fact that he does not have a sex drive to addle his brain. But this is the first time I've admitted to myself this side of him. I am floored.

[Zephyr Aspara]

Hey!

Yeah I understand completely that it would be hard to go through that...Anyways, communication is very important. I think it's good that you have talked to him about these things before.

If he is not wanting to talk about these topics, he is not helping to make sure the relationship stays happy and fulfilling for both of you....

Anyways, I'm not sure if he is asexual. I really don't know.

Generally, if someone never has any desire to have sex, I would think that they are asexual. So I guess you could talk to him about it and see if he feels asexual or not.

Communication is the main thing, so hopefully when you try to talk to him about it, he will be understanding and will talk about everything with you so that you two can see how each other feels and work on things together!

And like I said, I completely understand. If I was in a relationship with someone and they weren't showing me a lot of affection, including hugging and things like that, I would find it difficult and somewhat unsatisfying, unless we were able to find a way to decide on something together so that things get better.

I hope everything gets better soon!

Thank you so much. It means the world to me that this should make sense to someone.

I think -- and maybe I'm fooling myself, the human capacity for self-delusion is infinite -- he is terrified that if he admits he just does not want to have sex, I would up and leave him. Frankly, you guys, sex toys are fine by me, so long as a loving hand administers it. I am not that wedded to the flesh. But I guess that is too much to ask of some asexual people? In the past when I asked him to use a toy so I could finish, he refused.

I told him I don't like to be treated like a hand grenade. That was really good to get that one off my chest.

If he was asexual,I think it's very sad that he feels so defensive about the whole thing, he starts to really, in some way, hate me as the source of his problems. I've never seen the manipulation before; being honest and loving myself, I always thought I'd just have to become a better woman and lover. Not saying I will not continue to improve, but I have a feeling if he likes sex at all my personality traits and faults would not have sucked him dry.

He tried the "snow plowing" routine saying I should appreciate his love in other forms besides physical, and I said I would honestly prefer that he let the garden go to waste and caress me some instead. He looked annoyed that that didn't work any more.

I swear I am not trying to score points. One time, when our heat broke down in the depth of winter, I went to his room as we had a space heater there. When I crawled into bed, he said: "Lucky you, must be really glad our heat broke so you get to be here." I never forgot that. He plays it like his bed is a royal throne and jeweled privilege. The fact that it never occurred to him sex is not a one-way street speaks millions about his assumption. I am always the one praying for his imperial favor.

Or, of course, he can be having an affair and taking me for a ride.

If he were asexual, I wish to heaven he could have met someone else like him and grow old with her in platonic serenity. Why choose me and make both of us miserable? I guess, like you guys said, he was in denial.

[ByTheTracks]

Some of your description sounds a lot like me. I had a couple relationships that ended because my partners thought I was no longer interested in them because the sex became more and more infrequent. Early on when I was dating my wife she was very hurt when I suggested we didn't have to have sex every time we were together.

Does the following sound like something an asexual person may do?

If he isn't gay or having an affair, I suspect he is asexual. He came home looking rather anxious, and I gave him a hug to comfort both of us. He gave me a 45-minute talk about all my shortcomings: I don't heed his professional advice; I am too negative and critical; I have issues with authority; I am too tense; I am too sexually timid and that does not turn him on; we have been doing so well, why would I go and spoil everything? I finally told him about the hyperthyroidism just to explain why I seem unreasonably high-strung. I acknowledged everything he said, and promised I would do better. He hastens to add that he still cares about me and thinks that we will have sex again (implied.) He is right in many ways, of course, but not the sex part. What you all told me has opened my eyes.

I then pointed out that he has never liked sex, otherwise he would have been snatched up by one of his dozen of girlfriends. He denied this. (I know he told me this early on in the relationship, as a subtle way of sounding me out and seeing whether I would leave him.) I said I don't need to have intercourse itself, just physical affection, and the promise he holds out does not make sense given that, before some the problems he pegs emerged with me, we also did not make love much at all. I said is it because you just don't like sex? I would like to know that.

This was when a chink burst through his armor. He said I was saying hurtful and critical things, and attacking him in such a way that is precisely the reason he does not want to have sex with me. I told him this is not a one-way street. I would like to find out the truth; this is not my chasing you and trying to obtain a favor from you. I asked why, since he had been giving me constructive criticism for 45 minutes which I gratefully accepted, I cannot question this one fact? And by the way, if he rejects very mild romantic advances from me, where in the world am I going to frack to get that sexual confidence he wants from me? And I was not saying sex is absolutely necessary to me, we can tone it down and do other stuff, find a compromise somewhere, but we've got to start from the truth.

He kept on being defensive, saying such verbal acrobatics is not going to get me what I want, and then reasserted his ultimatum this morning. I said quietly, "I can see that." He looked a bit taken aback. DD came in for some homework help and he left.

Part of me still thinks that perhaps the reason he is so sweet and good is the fact that he does not have a sex drive to addle his brain. But this is the first time I've admitted to myself this side of him. I am floored.

Here's the thing. You say he is sweet and good. The issue here *could* be that the person with whom he had the "issue" over sex is the one challenging him, even if it's not really challenging and it's asking questions. It is still challenging any sense of what traditional masculinity is "supposed" to be, and that can be very threatening to a guy.

Before I found out for *myself* that asexuality was a thing, I was a damaged man. I wasn't taking care of my wife, I was filled with shame that I was a red-blooded American male who didn't see sex as the amazing thing that so many others in society (and in my workplace and in my neighborhood) did. What would people say about me if they thought I didn't care about sex? If they thought my wife and I weren't having sex?

45 minutes is a long time to go into a speech about a woman's perceived shortcomings, but I suppose it's possible depending on how threatened he felt. It's possible he's trying to push some of this on you because he really doesn't know. How many asexuals before they realize they're asexual think, "maybe my sex drive would show up if I met the right person?" So he's probably putting that on you and attempting to deflect at the same time.

Sometimes getting in an argument is a good deflection from the topic for a few days, right?

But while this might not be exactly like *this* asexual would do, I would say yes, it sounds very well within the realm of possibility. And perhaps when he realizes that you are not, as you say, "the source of his problems," he might be able to lower the defenses. I have to say, the phrase "lucky you, must be really glad our heat broke" is very harsh. I don't know much of a wedge has been driven between you, and maybe something else *is* going on.

If he were asexual, I wish to heaven he could have met someone else like him and grow old with her in platonic serenity. Why choose me and make both of us miserable? I guess, like you guys said, he was in denial.

He might not honestly know. If I had known, I absolutely 100% for sure would not have gotten involved with a sexual person because that just wouldn't be fair. But like I said, my sex life for 30 years didn't make any kind of sense to me -- until last month. And I consider myself a pretty smart guy who does a lot of self-analysis. This thing was just SO blindsiding that it was actually EASY to convince myself that -- yep, I'm asexual. Why? Because this wasn't a problem I had that I could figure out. The reason I couldn't figure it out is because I don't have the capacity to think in sexual terms that would have explained things for me. At least that's my theory.

I'm just happy as hell I found that article in Wired on this thing "the kids were talking" about called asexuality. I never thought I'd feel so old. But the odd thing is that realizing this makes me feel young. Almost like I can go live my life now with this damn thing off my back. I am what I am.

If my wife had confronted me with this, I'm not sure how I would have handled it. I think I needed to know there was a supportive community here first, and had my wife just started asking me if I was asexual, I'm not sure how I would have handled that. I think that's why we suggested perhaps you show him the site. Not that you did anything wrong, just trying to give you some possible insight.

Given all this, I don't know you or your husband obviously, so your situation could be different. This is just my reflection on it.

[Zephyr Aspara]

Everyone,

I really appreciate your help. I was grasping at straws. I still feel like I am tanking any moment. It was our 16th anniversary tonight, and over a nice French dinner we tried to hold a conversation. DD is the soul of the evening. She is witty, self-aware and well-informed for her age. Things seemed to be going well. He was showing me a German show on "classical men jokes" last night, and I thought I'll contribute by mentioning a quote I saw from a man complaining about not getting sex with his wife: "You might have a headache, but we don't." He emitted a grunt and averted his head. That's his usual signal for letting me know he did not find what I said interesting.

By the Tracks - maybe he is, as you said, trying to deflect the anniversary sex he thought to be inevitable. But I suddenly just could no longer contain myself. For the first time in our relationship of 20 years, I walked out. (Well, after dessert. I didn't want to scare DD. I used to chalk up such behavior to work stress, but now suddenly I realize the contempt behind the gesture. What a fool I was not to see it before. I loved him so much I thought the love must be returned, and I made every excuse in the book for what was happening. It is as much my own fault as his own.

Flesh-pocket, thanks for your kind words of encouragement. The thing is, I am rather clumsy and boring in bed, but I think I can change and grow. He is, however, not interested at all in helping me with it. I can't blame him in the sense that if he does not love me any more, I have no claim to it. And it is of no use to keep on loving someone who does not return it.

He treats me, I just realized, the way his parents treat one another, more or less. Perhaps a little worse.

Anime Pancake, you are absolutely right about communication. But the thing is, it seems pretty clear to me that whether he is asexual, or having an affair, or merely sick and tired of me, to some extent it all amounts to the same thing. I am only a sidekick - sometimes literally, in an emotionally abusive way - in whatever he is going through. I don't seem to be able to get through to him.

He is probably just doing the minimum to keep me, since DD is pre-adolescent and he definitely believes in keeping the family intact. I do too, but I am afraid the clashes and coldness between her parents would only make things worse for her emotionally, than separation.

[Zephyr Aspara]

By the Tracks - I am most happy for you that you found out about this, and changed your life and outlook.

Can you share a little how this realization has helped things between you and your wife? I am curious to know. Not that it would necessarily matter in my own. I am so heart-broken by what has happened to me, that I don't even feel like I am in the position to do anything with that information. Maybe it's pigheaded and defeatist of me.

[ByTheTracks]

Sorry you're going through this, but maybe discovering more about where you both are will eventually lead to a better place for both of you - whether that's together or apart.

As for my wife and I and how it has "helped," well, I'm not sure it has. I am in the parents thread as well and explain a little more of my situation over there. Right now we are kind of in a sexless holding pattern which works for me and I think works for my wife - the byproduct of her having had an affair with another woman. Our child has a lot of struggles (Autism/ADHD), so we focus on him instead of ourselves really. I guess we will have time to explore our own relationship at some point when we don't feel like we are in crisis with my son.

But an issue with that is that I don't know what it's like to have a sex drive and don't know if sexual people really can just go without sex for years. Like I said, it's only recently that I have come to understand that I think differently. Before this I just thought some people just had no morals or that they were weak willed. I didn't know that their brains really worked so much differently than mine.

So on the one hand I don't want to deny my wife something she may need - I mean, I am still her friend. And, would I ironically have a much more intimate relationship someday with another asexual/gray because they would feel much closer to what I feel and free of any sexual pressure or intimidation I could really be truer to myself?

I don't know what is fair and right for either of us. So while I have a huge amount of relief and actual joy that I have discovered a lot of answers about my past, it has also muddied the waters between my wife and I as far as our future is concerned. But we are still close I would say, which seems to be a difference here. It sounds like your relationship has become somewhat contentious. I think first you and he might need to re-learn how to communicate with each other in a safer setting, like a therapist's office. Then perhaps you could get some of this out in the open and the therapist could ask him questions - coming from someone else might make it seem less confrontational as well...

[Zephyr Aspara]

Hi By the Tracks - that is a lot on your plate! I am glad to hear that you two are close and can take this on together; what wonderful parents you must be. And thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedule to help with my crisis!

I think each couple must be different, and no cookie-cutter solution fits. As long as you two are talking, I am sure that is the best thing. Regarding her affair, how do you feel about it? I personally think that marital fidelity, and romantic love, don't necessarily have to do with sex. It all depends on the kind of person they are.

You are right about the contention. Thank goodness - or not - issues always abound outside of sex. I am a published writer (in my native language) and very cerebral/bookish. My husband is an IT guy and finds all that rumination distracting and empty. That in the end may be a hurdle just as hard to clear as sex. I can only say that love is a many splendored thing -- it floats us over so many chasms. I don't know if I am going to clear this one, but we'll see.

He is stonewalling, but I'll try to suggest therapy. What you said about different thinking makes sense. I think he truly feels that I should be content with daily hugs and some pecks on the cheek; does not see what the big deal is. I'll probably start by sending him this web address.

Best of luck to you two and your lovely child! Take care.

[ByTheTracks]

We all have our challenges, right? I am also an IT guy, but I have always been self-analytical and interested in deeper things. I think a lot of IT guys are. But we tend to think we have analyzed a lot and are correct about a lot of things. :)

I think how this plays out is going to depend on two things -- your willingness to be gentle with him even if he is cold and combative, and his willingness to let his guard down and let you in. That's where I think a therapist might be able to help. I wouldn't make it about the sex, I'd make it about communication.

My wife and I had a couple miscarriages before our son was born, and the first one especially was devastating. We went into counseling to help us cope, and the thing we realized was that even though we thought we communicated extremely well, it didn't take long before we realized how much work we really had to do in that area. There were a LOT of misunderstandings, just because we didn't understand each other as much as we thought we did.

So we went in thinking we were getting help with our grief, and we came out realizing we needed help with our communication. It was a big surprise to us.

It's just a suggestion, but I would think about whether or not it might be more helpful for you to suggest therapy to help with *communication* and your relationship before you send him this web address and start down the road talking about sex. It seems any time the two of you head down that road, it hasn't resulted in any positive communication. What is that Albert Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? :)

I also think any suggestions coming directly from you on this topic might not be accepted graciously. Far more likely he would be receptive to others saying something like that or making other suggestions. I know when my wife and I are confronting a difficult topic, sometimes we get our heels dug in so deep that we can get very stubborn, and it's only when a friend suggests something, or we read an article from a third party that says something that we can open up and possibly see the other side above our stubbornness.

You say he is kind and good otherwise. Maybe try to appeal to that nature using a different tactic?

Again, only you know what is best in your relationship.

Thanks for the very kind words, and I hope it all works out for you!

[Zephyr Aspara]

Kudos to you, By the Tracks -- we got somewhere. We had a brief talk that went nowhere before I went home to my family for spring break without him (he had to work and I took DD with me), and he seemed very angry. I told him I understood if he no longer loved me and found things about me repellent, but I could not change things that are fundamental about me. I suggested seeing a therapist upon saying goodbye at the airport without mentioning sex. After a weekend of silence, he wrote me with the name of a therapist nearby who works on marital issues, including lack of sexual intimacy and couples growing apart.

I don't say things will work out, but I am encouraged by his willingness to take this step. Ha ha, I heard that Einstein quote in college too. It's funny how as a sprightly teenage girl I never thought it would happen to me. We misuse persistence, I am afraid. i am with you 110% on the misunderstanding. That is what makes human relationships so fragile and precious, I suppose.

My brother and his ex-wife lost a little girl when she was five-months old, and they were devastated. They had two lovely sons afterwards, but I don't think my brother would ever forget her.

I confided in bro about these problems for the first time with all candor, and he is less than complimentary about the whole thing. My brother has a bevy of issues -- he feels that as a slender Asian man he is at the bottom of the totem pole -- and he said he used a number of women for sex. In order to keep his investment in them to a minimum, he would use the blame game on them, and he feels sure that that is what DD has been using on me. We will find out.

Courage on our mutual journey!

[Autumn Season]

Hello, Zephyr. I would like to tell you how much I admire you. You are brave and open minded, loving and responsible as well as patient as could be. I hope things work out for you and your husband. It must be tough, but it's worth it and no matter what the future may be - you will make it better. I'm sure, your story here is helpful for a lot of people in this forum, too. So thanks for sharing.

A thought that popped up in my head when reading your story was: How romantic is your hubby? If he was, say, aromantic, then that would explain many of the misunderstandings that you have. I heard, there are people who cannot feel romance (or not strongly), but they still desire a close relationship. In this case they wouldn't like it, when the partner did loving, romantic gestures. So this is something worth thinking about.

Also: What is he comfortable with? You said, that he might be afraid to accidently turn you on and that could be why he avoids docile things like hugs. It would be great, if the two of you got to understand where you are different and where similar. In other words, I hope, that he becomes clear about how much physical contact he can allow.

[Zephyr Aspara]

Hi Autumn Season - thank you so much for these words of support. I'll take them in unabashedly. Our self-esteem can all use a bit more stroking.

It's so great that you are giving me food for thought. I saw the term "aromantic" on the forum but was not sure what it meant. Appreciate your letting me know! Interesting you should ask. Husband is very romantic. He says the prettiest things at no provocation, such as "I missed you so I bought me our ice cream (chocolate raspberry) but that only made things worse." When we were living in Asia, I told him he must find me monotonous given how I must melt into the ocean of black-haired and black-eyed people, and he said: "I've never seen anyone who looks like you anywhere, certainly not here." I know how shamelessly hyperbolic this would seem to anyone else, but I would be more than human not to feel loved and admired.

He has taken me to all the great capitals of Europe. For example, we had a dinner one time at Glemis Castle, where Macbeth's murder purportedly took place. He is European and knows the art of fine living without ostentation. Flowers and massage coupons. And he would put himself to great inconvenience if I mess up. One time he almost got into an accident getting me something I needed before leaving for vacation (I didn't ask him to; he was off before I knew what had happened.) He notices my moods. I really do appreciate all he has done for me, and tells him so a lot.

He is a noble man. When I was leaving my last job, if I had been willing to commit an ethical lapse - not doing anything wrong, but just look the other way - I would have gotten a solid severance. I would never have done it, but with him breathing down my back it would have been harder, and I was already a wreck, feeling betrayed and abandoned. Hubby did not even bat an eye. He did the math for me: "Half of the money will go to therapy, and the other half will disappear down the drain the first month you come down with cancer because you can't live with what you did. I think of your walking away as making money." He is frugal when it comes to his own expenses, but willing to see months of my salary go in order to help me uphold my principles and keep my sanity and conscience intact.

At the same time, over the last several years, he is increasingly aloof, locking himself up in his study, and sometimes has nothing to say to me. When he does, he is increasingly critical. Also, the complete lack of physical affection is at great odds with his truly romantic bent.

I do want to say, if someone is asexual and aromantic, I fail to see what they can offer their partners in a committed relationship. Please correct me if I were wrong; maybe they offer other things. I personally would not have stayed with hubby, if he did not offer me so much love and affection in lieu of sex.

[Zephyr Aspara]

One note: He has around the same time as his increasing coldness taken on a much more stressful job, albeit with enough pay that it looks justified. He has told me not to mind him, that it's all about the stress.

[Zephyr Aspara]

One last thing: I caught hubby looking at heterosexual porn when we were almost married. I had a fit. Later on I told him I respected his choice and he should do it if he wanted to. Recently he told me he masturbates.

I know a lot of people would get insulted by that. I am just baffled. Perhaps this just puts him in the gray part of the spectrum?

[Autumn Season]

I see, he really does sound romantic. He hugged and kissed and caressed you in the past? (You don't have to answer that, if you don't want to.) So his words and physical closeness only changed recently, is that it?

About the masturbation and porn: Asexuals can like those things. What makes an asexual asexual, is that they will not feel the need to have partnered sex. I don't think that his interest in those things has anything to do with whether or not he desires you. In fact, there are some couples who watch porn together to get in the mood.

Also... I'm sorry, if this is getting too personal. But did the two of you have sex before you married? This is just a guess and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems probable that if he had sex BEFORE completely commiting himself to you and after that he decided that you are the one for him, then he liked the sex. In this case you being clumsy in bed (or not) has got nothing to do with him desiring you.

There are... different kinds of asexuals. Gray-asexuals only experience sexual attraction sometimes. Demisexuals will only want to have sex with the partner they feel very close to. So - again, this is just a guess - if your hubby is demi and doesn't want to have sex, there might be something going wrong in your relationship or in his personal life that makes him feel less close to you. I believe it's easier to find out what kind of sexuality he has by analyzing the very beginning of your relationship. (Did he want sex then? Did he want it at least once a week?)

In the end only your hubby knows what he feels. So I'm glad the two of you decided to go to the therapy. Conversation and trust is the key.

PS: It is great, that you take his criticism in a positive, constructive way. However the way he talks only about the bad things he sees in you, but doesn't want to hear anything negative about himself is, well, very childish. It looks like he is protecting his pride with all his might. I just hope you don't get hurt (much) in the process.

[ByTheTracks]

The fact that he suggested a therapist is huge. Congratulations, and I hopeyou both can feel safe in that setting and get some validation for EACH of your feelings and viewpoints.

To your brother's point... That is HIS perspective, and he will view your situation through it. From all you have told us, it doesn't sound at all like that's what's going on here.

On porn and masturbation... That seems to be the #1 thing that comes up as an argument for most asexuals from what I've read. You say his job is stressful. He could just be using porn/masturbation as a physical release and it has nothing to do with sexual attraction. Like Autumn Season noted, asexual refers to sexual attraction to another person.

To the point of "did you have sex when you were first married..." I am not sure that's quite as relevant. I felt a huge need to conform to what I thought was a typical relationship early in my relationship and marriage. Eventually, this becomes too much to bear. To have sex is more uncomfortable (by far) to not have sex, despite whatever fallout comes of that.

Like I said, I wish I would have had these answers before I got involved and married, but I can't control the past. :(

I hope this is the start of you both getting somewhere!!

[Zephyr Aspara]

Hi Autumn Season, I love this discussion, as I find all things deeply human strike to my core. If these are our definitions, then I am demisexual myself. I quite earnestly tried casual sex with two different people in between my two serious relationships, and it felt like letting a thief into my own house. Did not do much for me, and my bedfellows were understandably less than satisfied.

Husband and I had sex after getting tested for venereal diseases (my idea; he was very suave and sympathetic about the whole thing. One day I must write about what a turn-on HIV testing can be.) For the interim two months, we got to know each other better, had a lot of foreplay and necking before our consummation, if you will ^_^ . I am very liberal and believed in amorous exploration with someone I liked a lot, with no preconceived notions, strings, contractual obligations, etc. I figure if they'll walk away after sex, I'd have learned something. I had an orgasm the second time we had sex, like I never did with my ex-BF, also a virgin like moi (this is not oversharing, this is academic research, a la Saul Bellow. :P ) BF has been around the block, trained to please by a dozen European women who were most of them even more liberated and unsullied in their enthusiasm.

So to answer your question, we had sex before any sort of commitment. He however did not initiate a whole lot, and the frequency was always rather low from the beginning. Our first fight was over that. He argued that in order to get a good job in order to be able to stay in the area with me, he had to focus on career development. Nonetheless, he was the best lover I have ever had. It was always fireworks without exception when he did start; he is tender, aware, and very loving. I don't think I would have wanted sex with him so badly if he did not always "put out," as people in the fifties used to say in such a dispiriting way. Certainly it would be hard to register the impression that he loathed what he was doing; but then, I am a sexual neophyte even at this advanced age. Maybe I just don't know.

As for your proposed diagnosis of things off in our marriage, that is certainly borne out by his unhappiness with me. I had a very consuming job that involved working with traumatized people, and for six years I was completely devoted to it. DH found me often preoccupied with it. As I love my husband, so I cared about the wonderful and wounded people I worked for. DH was upset at my allowing myself to get hurt, and felt doubly neglected.

Thank you for these wonderful thoughts. I'll do my best not to hurt him, and to protect myself. As I said, I don't believe I am entitled to his love. I would be crushed, but not bitter, if that is what has happened. It is a good sign that he seems to want to salvage.

By the Tracks - I see your point. DH had had dozens of sex partners (not that outstanding a figure in Northern Europe; history checked out by conversations with his friends, both male and female), so to some extent he does not seem to fit the extreme end of the asexual spectrum. At the same time, the pressure to conform must be enormous for him, a gorgeous man over 6 ft tall with the Michaleangelian body so typical of his region (he calls it the ideal peasant type, eating grass and producing milk.)

I have a feeling my hubby is in your boat. Let's hope we all get to the other side of bliss!

[123cosmo]

Its no problem that you suspect it. Gender, sexuality etc. Can be confusing so just ask him, tell him how you would feel either way. If he says he isnt than dont keep bringing it up. U can never know for sure about another person, only they will know. Hope this helped :)

[Zephyr Aspara]

I appreciate it 123cosmo. I will not badger him with this, as I wouldn't want to be myself.