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#AgenderProblems


Fajita with Pretty OK Hair

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Feeling like you might have some connection to your assigned gender, but wondering if it's just caused by loneliness.

Also (this can apply to anyone under the trans umbrella), having dreams of intense gender euphoria, then feeling really crummy when you wake up and realise it wasn't real. Bleh.

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Trying to come up with ways to make an agender character interesting, but we're so darned invisible.. So nobody makes agender characters.. So it's all but unheard of.. So there's a lot more out there who just think they're broken. Aargh.

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Selasphorus

Being AFAB and trying to figure out formal dress code: "All right, I can do the normal looking cis-o-flage thing and wear this dress that I guess is all right for being a dress, but I still don't know whether I'd actually want to wear such a thing for like 6 hours, plus I'd have to probably figure out hair and such, or I can experiment with presentation, stick out like a sore thumb in my mostly female friend group, confuse the absolute heck out of everyone, and possibly make people think I'm a lesbian by wearing nice pants and a collared shirt and this nice vest I got at the thrift store, all of which would probably be more comfortable than a dress. Maybe I could borrow a tie from my QPP. But if I don't look feminine enough, will I get kicked out? That's something I've heard of happening before, and somehow I don't think the trans defense would work because I highly doubt anyone around here has heard of being agender. Also, apparently there's going to be a masquerade mask involved, and who knows what that'll go better with."

Gah. Prom. Gender. Gender everywhere.

Ah, prom. I totally wanted to to wear a suit thingee too! That would've been awesome! I mentioned that offhand to my mom and she looked at me funny. :( Because yeah, everyone would judge. I ended up wearing a dress (which was a nice grey like a raincloud, but still a dress) and felt kinda uncomfortable the entire time. Meh. In a perfect world... But hey, after prom was over my friends and I went back home and marathoned us some LotR in sweatpants, so... :P

I'm totally wearing trousers to graduation though. No skirts! This is my time! Haha

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Kappamaki

I didn't even consider going to prom. I afterwards heard it was Arabian Nights themed and I had just missed a perfect excuse to cosplay Altair from Assassin's Creed and dance the dance.

Also, apparently I won a free iPod that I forfeited by not being there. Dammit.

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butterflydreams

I didn't even consider going to prom. I afterwards heard it was Arabian Nights themed and I had just missed a perfect excuse to cosplay Altair from Assassin's Creed and dance the dance.

Also, apparently I won a free iPod that I forfeited by not being there. Dammit.

Ok, that's pretty sweet! On both things.

I only went to prom because I thought it would be fun to hang out with friends, but they were too busy with their girlfriends/boyfriends. Since even my parents were (bizarrely) encouraging me to go, they helped me out by buying me a period correct 19th century bartender's vest, single collar shirt, sleeve garters, and a western tie (like what Colonel Sanders wears). I at least had fun dressing up in that. Honestly, it was nice to do something different than the standard tux/dress that everyone else was wearing. Even a few teacher chaperones made positive comments.

Admittedly, this wasn't that long ago, but I wonder if even today that such strict gender roles would still be applied. Maybe in some areas of the world. I will say that although I don't remember much, I remember the prom king was actually a completely out gay guy that I barely knew. So an AMAB person showing up in some kind of skirt or an AFAB person showing up with pants and some kind of tux top? Couldn't possibly be that far off. People at those kinds of things are way too engrossed in their own little worlds with their partners.

Heh, not having a partner...now that'll make you stick out ;) (I didn't mind ^_^)

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Dodecahedron314

I didn't even consider going to prom. I afterwards heard it was Arabian Nights themed and I had just missed a perfect excuse to cosplay Altair from Assassin's Creed and dance the dance.

Also, apparently I won a free iPod that I forfeited by not being there. Dammit.

Ok, that's pretty sweet! On both things.

I only went to prom because I thought it would be fun to hang out with friends, but they were too busy with their girlfriends/boyfriends. Since even my parents were (bizarrely) encouraging me to go, they helped me out by buying me a period correct 19th century bartender's vest, single collar shirt, sleeve garters, and a western tie (like what Colonel Sanders wears). I at least had fun dressing up in that. Honestly, it was nice to do something different than the standard tux/dress that everyone else was wearing. Even a few teacher chaperones made positive comments.

Admittedly, this wasn't that long ago, but I wonder if even today that such strict gender roles would still be applied. Maybe in some areas of the world. I will say that although I don't remember much, I remember the prom king was actually a completely out gay guy that I barely knew. So an AMAB person showing up in some kind of skirt or an AFAB person showing up with pants and some kind of tux top? Couldn't possibly be that far off. People at those kinds of things are way too engrossed in their own little worlds with their partners.

Heh, not having a partner...now that'll make you stick out ;) (I didn't mind ^_^)

Funny story, I'm really only going to prom because there's this program in the community that donates senior stuff to people and they decided to donate a prom ticket to me--otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered with the expense ($50, really?) and would probably have just ended up hanging out with my QPP instead. (The program also offered to donate gift certificates for hair, nails, dresses, etc. and I was just like NOPE NOPE NOPE NO THANK YOU GOODBYE) However, I did end up talking him into going to prom since I'm going, even though we're not actually going together. I'm just going with a bunch of my friends. I think there are two or three couples in my group, and so all the singles (me, another friend, and my QPP--we're not a couply thing or anything) are going to band together and probably provide the comic relief to all the romantic sappiness that'll most likely be happening.

Hadley: I wish my parents were cool enough to take me shopping for random awesome outfits like that. I'm sure there's some interesting stuff to be found in the thrift stores around here. However, I'm not actually out to my mom as agender, so...yeah. I don't know what her views on all that would be. Oh, and if I get a chance to make the tuxedo over the weekend, I might actually have a partner....I'm considering bringing my trusty TI-83 as my date. :D (My friends already joke that I'm dating math, so why not.)

It's true that gender stuff is probably at least slightly more relaxed at this point...but at the same time I also live in a really, really conservative area, so who knows. *shrugs*

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nerdperson777
Oh god, prom. Probably said this before but my parents made me go and I couldn't use cost as an excuse because we're not poor. I knew I wouldn't be allowed to wear mens' clothing so I never bothered asking. And a family friend offered her son to me at the beginning of the year so he would be the one in the tux. It was very awkward and I didn't want my back to a guy for obvious reasons. I was horrified when I saw a goody girl that I've known since elementary school doing a grinding dance. Overall, didn't really care for prom. Standing around for 3 hours and "dancing" for two. Never wearing a dress again.


I could date my abacus. I'd ship myself with math.

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Is it just me or an Agender thing where you just feel like your not fully in your body? Like almost as if you were an inch or two above your skin...

I'm like that when I'm absentminded. It might have to do with personality as well. E.g. if you're a rather 'cerebral' person, you will not always be aware of your body. For me, a lot of exercise helps, like swimming, running, walking ... but if I don't do it regularly, I 'fly away'.

I don't get how people refer to their body as 'myself'. E.g. there was this day about self-esteem for girls at the school where I used to work. The girls had to answer questions about what they like or dislike about 'yourself' and it was exclusively limited to the body. Then they looked at quotes by famous actresses, saying that everybody thinks they are perfect, but that they all had something that they didn't like about 'themselves'. I'm not surprised girls have low self-esteem if even a special event that is supposed to boost their self-esteem completely ignores character, achievements etc.

WTF? When somebody asks me about 'myself', I assume that they are talking about my personality.

I was hanging out with other Christian students the other night, and they kept urging me to go Men's Retreat. It is really awkward trying to explain the real reason I don't want to go without outing myself as... however I feel (somewhere nearby to agendered). I replied with a flimsy counter of kinda maybe having plans for that weekend, instead of saying I would fit in there as effectively as I would in Women's Retreat (that is, not at all).

I'm also wanting to try an agendered look, but I'm really tall (6'4", or 1.93m) and I feel like it would be difficult to dissociate my height from a masculine appearance. I also don't know how I feel about shaving my facial hair; I was never particularly fond of my face before growing a beard, and it is the one and only benefit I've really found from being bio-male.

What's a Men's Retreat? Is that like a man camp where you spend all day outdoors, cook meat with lots of spices, bathe in a freezing river and sit around a camp fire?

I'd love to go on one of those, but there are no man camps for 'women'.

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Kappamaki

I was hanging out with other Christian students the other night, and they kept urging me to go Men's Retreat. It is really awkward trying to explain the real reason I don't want to go without outing myself as... however I feel (somewhere nearby to agendered). I replied with a flimsy counter of kinda maybe having plans for that weekend, instead of saying I would fit in there as effectively as I would in Women's Retreat (that is, not at all).

What's a Men's Retreat? Is that like a man camp where you spend all day outdoors, cook meat with lots of spices, bathe in a freezing river and sit around a camp fire?

I'd love to go on one of those, but there are no man camps for 'women'.

Real men don't use spices on their meat! Unless they sailed to the East Indies to get them themselves!

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I was hanging out with other Christian students the other night, and they kept urging me to go Men's Retreat. It is really awkward trying to explain the real reason I don't want to go without outing myself as... however I feel (somewhere nearby to agendered). I replied with a flimsy counter of kinda maybe having plans for that weekend, instead of saying I would fit in there as effectively as I would in Women's Retreat (that is, not at all).

What's a Men's Retreat? Is that like a man camp where you spend all day outdoors, cook meat with lots of spices, bathe in a freezing river and sit around a camp fire?

I'd love to go on one of those, but there are no man camps for 'women'.

Real men don't use spices on their meat! Unless they sailed to the East Indies to get them themselves!

Sailed? Sailing is for wusses, a real man swims all the way to the East Indies ;)

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Certified Cake Decorator

BoxKitty i think "real men spices" is referring to things like the blood of your enemies and sweat and maybe sometimes digestive juices of the dodo bird that you cloned for the occasion of preparing meat :)

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Sutaomiiru

People rejecting the possibility that characters with ambiguous genders could be agender; especially if they are convinced that the characters are a certain gender, no matter what the author says.

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I was hanging out with other Christian students the other night, and they kept urging me to go Men's Retreat. It is really awkward trying to explain the real reason I don't want to go without outing myself as... however I feel (somewhere nearby to agendered). I replied with a flimsy counter of kinda maybe having plans for that weekend, instead of saying I would fit in there as effectively as I would in Women's Retreat (that is, not at all).

I'm also wanting to try an agendered look, but I'm really tall (6'4", or 1.93m) and I feel like it would be difficult to dissociate my height from a masculine appearance. I also don't know how I feel about shaving my facial hair; I was never particularly fond of my face before growing a beard, and it is the one and only benefit I've really found from being bio-male.

What's a Men's Retreat? Is that like a man camp where you spend all day outdoors, cook meat with lots of spices, bathe in a freezing river and sit around a camp fire?

I'd love to go on one of those, but there are no man camps for 'women'.

It's a little bit less intense than that, with a lot more "Praise the Lord", but on the whole, that sounds about right. It's also a place where they get to talk about "men issues" that would be inappropriate to talk about in front of women (and judging by the way they said it, probably also aces).

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I was hanging out with other Christian students the other night, and they kept urging me to go Men's Retreat. It is really awkward trying to explain the real reason I don't want to go without outing myself as... however I feel (somewhere nearby to agendered). I replied with a flimsy counter of kinda maybe having plans for that weekend, instead of saying I would fit in there as effectively as I would in Women's Retreat (that is, not at all).

I'm also wanting to try an agendered look, but I'm really tall (6'4", or 1.93m) and I feel like it would be difficult to dissociate my height from a masculine appearance. I also don't know how I feel about shaving my facial hair; I was never particularly fond of my face before growing a beard, and it is the one and only benefit I've really found from being bio-male.

What's a Men's Retreat? Is that like a man camp where you spend all day outdoors, cook meat with lots of spices, bathe in a freezing river and sit around a camp fire?

I'd love to go on one of those, but there are no man camps for 'women'.

It's a little bit less intense than that, with a lot more "Praise the Lord", but on the whole, that sounds about right. It's also a place where they get to talk about "men issues" that would be inappropriate to talk about in front of women (and judging by the way they said it, probably also aces).

Yeah, talking about 'men issues' would make me suspicious, although it depends on what kind of men issues they mean. If 'talking about men issues' is a euphemism for 'spewing misogynistic crap', then I wouldn't want to join it. But there are also legitimate men issues. These tend to be the issues that are never talked about, though.

Why can't there be a co-ed retreat where you do all these outdoor activities without a gender war?

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People rejecting the possibility that characters with ambiguous genders could be agender; especially if they are convinced that the characters are a certain gender, no matter what the author says.

I'm always uncertain on them.. They rarely have any sort of characterization, so they don't ping as agender to me so much as cis with androgynous presentation.
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Kappamaki

I was hanging out with other Christian students the other night, and they kept urging me to go Men's Retreat. It is really awkward trying to explain the real reason I don't want to go without outing myself as... however I feel (somewhere nearby to agendered). I replied with a flimsy counter of kinda maybe having plans for that weekend, instead of saying I would fit in there as effectively as I would in Women's Retreat (that is, not at all).

What's a Men's Retreat? Is that like a man camp where you spend all day outdoors, cook meat with lots of spices, bathe in a freezing river and sit around a camp fire?

I'd love to go on one of those, but there are no man camps for 'women'.

It's a little bit less intense than that, with a lot more "Praise the Lord", but on the whole, that sounds about right. It's also a place where they get to talk about "men issues" that would be inappropriate to talk about in front of women (and judging by the way they said it, probably also aces).

Yeah, talking about 'men issues' would make me suspicious, although it depends on what kind of men issues they mean. If 'talking about men issues' is a euphemism for 'spewing misogynistic' crap, then I wouldn't want to join it. But there are also legitimate men issues. These tend to be the issues that are never talked about, though.

Why can't there be a co-ed retreat where you do all these outdoor activities without a gender war?

Wait, maybe it's like, real talk about feelings and hugging? That sounds like a retreat-y thing to do. And it's all-male to, you know, create a 'safe space' without all the posturing people so often do around people of the 'opposite' gender. That way you can talk about the stuff you normally can't. So... it'd still be awkward if you're the not of the proper gender and religion, so I'd hate it and ruin it for everyone else if I showed up, but for Christian men, it sounds kind of like it might be a pretty good way to step outside of life for a moment and refocus.

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(I tend to fluctuate between androgyne and agender—are my #problems welcome?)

Last Halloween, I wanted to go to this party as an ancient Gaelic story teller, but of course I couldn't figure out what they would have worn. I figured nobody would call me out for being inaccurate, so I just got giant pieces of plaid cloth and I made a veil and a dress-like thing to counter with a ghillie shirt I had found at a store (ghillie shirts are/were masculine clothing). Since I'm AMAB and (unfortunately) read as male all the time, I figured a dress would get the point across, but I couldn't get away with an actual dress. Well, it turned out that everyone mistook it for a kilt and thought I was supposed to be a Celtic warrior. Sigh.

So, the clothes issue is my agender problem. I have many stories about it, this is just the most ironic (is that what ironic means?).

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NotGojoSatoru

My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side.

In college my friend once asked me which of the numerous dresses suited her the most.

Her: "Hey, which one looks good on me? :) "

Me: :blink::mellow::huh::excl:

Her: "Nevermind <_< "

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littlepersonparadox

My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side. "

this is kinda what i find to be one of the more absurd gendered clothing conventions. I see shirts that are virtually the same and then you wear it and people go up to you and go "You can't wear/buy that shirt it's a mens shirt, the buttons are on the opposite side." There are episodes where this comes up and people laugh becasue the "buttons are on the wrong side, look at him he's wearing a girls shirt" it was actually a plot point in a dinsy good luck charlie episode. Really what does the button side matter?

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My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side. "

this is kinda what i find to be one of the more absurd gendered clothing conventions. I see shirts that are virtually the same and then you wear it and people go up to you and go "You can't wear/buy that shirt it's a mens shirt, the buttons are on the opposite side." There are episodes where this comes up and people laugh becasue the "buttons are on the wrong side, look at him he's wearing a girls shirt" it was actually a plot point in a dinsy good luck charlie episode. Really what does the button side matter?

I wonder if anyone has made a shirt with buttons alternating between the two sides?

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Selasphorus

My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side. "

this is kinda what i find to be one of the more absurd gendered clothing conventions. I see shirts that are virtually the same and then you wear it and people go up to you and go "You can't wear/buy that shirt it's a mens shirt, the buttons are on the opposite side." There are episodes where this comes up and people laugh becasue the "buttons are on the wrong side, look at him he's wearing a girls shirt" it was actually a plot point in a dinsy good luck charlie episode. Really what does the button side matter?

How do people even notice that stuff? I mean, I know I'm generally oblivious, but who goes around policing buttons?

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There does need to be non-binary/agender fashion. Specifically for us (though presentation is not the same as gender, so anyone could wear it, but still). There was a store in England that had that very thing, shame it's not available over here.

When non-binary/agender clothing does not seem to exist in your country. #AgenderProblems

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NotGojoSatoru

I am more concerned about why do they notice this kind of thing. According to Google, there was some strange reason why the buttons are on different sides (Men wore the shirts by themselves, while women had their maids to help them out). But that does not make any sense right now.

The fashion industry has to update itself... It forgets that we are in 21st century

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Getting mis-misgendered and not knowing how to encourage people to get pronouns and gendered terms wrong more often without being assumed transgender.

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My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side. "

this is kinda what i find to be one of the more absurd gendered clothing conventions. I see shirts that are virtually the same and then you wear it and people go up to you and go "You can't wear/buy that shirt it's a mens shirt, the buttons are on the opposite side." There are episodes where this comes up and people laugh becasue the "buttons are on the wrong side, look at him he's wearing a girls shirt" it was actually a plot point in a dinsy good luck charlie episode. Really what does the button side matter?

Same, I've been told off for wearing a "boys' jacket" because the zip was on the other side. It made no sense though, why should it matter what side the zip or buttons are on? I hadn't even noticed it was supposedly for boys, I'd just bought it because it was blue and the other one was pink, which I didn't really want.

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DigitalBookDust

I've got a jacket that alternates buttons. It's awesome, made by Winter Sun, an alt clothing manufactorer.

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nerdperson777

My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side.

I have the urge to make a joke about Arno because buttons everywhere.

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Kappamaki

My dad doesn't let me try out Men's shirt because the buttons are on different side. "

this is kinda what i find to be one of the more absurd gendered clothing conventions. I see shirts that are virtually the same and then you wear it and people go up to you and go "You can't wear/buy that shirt it's a mens shirt, the buttons are on the opposite side." There are episodes where this comes up and people laugh becasue the "buttons are on the wrong side, look at him he's wearing a girls shirt" it was actually a plot point in a dinsy good luck charlie episode. Really what does the button side matter?

How do people even notice that stuff? I mean, I know I'm generally oblivious, but who goes around policing buttons?

I have the urge to make a joke about Arno because buttons everywhere.

*koumpounophobia intensifies*

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NotGojoSatoru

I have the urge to make a joke about Arno because buttons everywhere.

:D I call it as my rebellious phase

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Apparently Miley Cyrus came out yesterday as, well, she didn't give it a name in that short chunk of interview, but they described agender pretty clearly. (then the reporter decided it must be 'genderqueer' and ranted about it and confused everybody and caused various retractions to need to be made but that's neither here nor there)

Suddenly someone started gender policing in the sense of trying to shame them for 'not dressing like someone with no gender'.

Uhmm.. there's a dress code? Please explain further so that I will know how society expects me to dress and present correctly... :mad:

Oh, that and "So awesome to take a political stand like that!" which made me blink a lot. wut? you got that from a description of the gender I was born with?

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