flamboy-ant Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'm a boy. I purposefully avoid saying trans-man because I feel like the word "man" gives people this idea of a burly, bear-wrestling, spitting, flannel-wearing, hair in the wind sort of fellow. Growing up I used male or neutral pronouns. My parents didn't notice. My friends thought it was quirky but thought nothing of it. Nothing serious. By the time I got through dreaded puberty I was identifying as a They. They still felt wrong though. I knew I was somewhere between They and He but I couldn't bring myself to go all the way to "Man" and never did. I'm in college now and a little while ago I switched to he/him pronouns. I identify as a "he". I am a He. That said, my style isn't "manly". A lot of it is boyish, yes but I also dream of dressing up in pretty wigs and things. I like dressing up. I'm... some would say... femme. Or flamboyant. I'm a femme boy. And for a while that's been perfect feeling. Until recently. A person who I thought cared about me started challenging my identity. Saying I wasn't acting like a real man. That I couldn't be both a girl and a boy that I had to choose. I told them clearly there isn't one type of guy and that I was male regardless of how their definition went. But they just kept pushing. Saying every time I said or did something femme they'd call it out because that's what their guy friends would do for them and this is how they were raised. pushing and pushing and pushing. And then when I got upset they said they didn't know what the big deal was. I feel... like I'm in all these.. pieces. Does being a femme boy make me genderqueer instead of trans? Do I have to be TRANSitioning? Can I not wear frilly things and dress up? I like dressing up. I feel so invalid. and dysphoric.. help? Link to post Share on other sites
theam Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Your identity is valid and only you can define it, not some asshole who can't deal with diverse presentations of genders. You feel and say that you are a femme boy, then you are a femme boy and that is awesome. Just because they were raised like that doesn't mean they are allowed to hurt you and make you feel dysphoric. There are trans guys don't need to transition or present as masculine (whatever the definition of that is). Their identity is enough to them. Anyone can wear frilly things and dress up and in my opinion more people should because pretty clothes look great on everyone, regardless of gender. You say that it had been a perfect feeling until that person started to challenge your identity. They are wrong to do so. And I hope you'll be able to overcome that and feel comfortable with yourself again. Edit: Argh. I am so sorry that you are feeling invalid and dysphoric. Hugs if you need them. Link to post Share on other sites
Barylambda Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You are who you are. That is all the validity you need. If someone doesn't like you for who are, they can just STFU. Link to post Share on other sites
Chardog Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I am like you to a greater degree. If I'm going to dress up, I'm dresses and heels all the way, but my tomboyish side still has a touch of femme to it and I have a preference for slightly femme gay males. I don't think I will ever transition, so I do label myself genderqueer, but there are femme FtMs. Boy is more accurate for me- don't see myself as manly. Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 In my eyes you get to tell me whatever you see yourself as and want to embody, and I do whatever I can to perceive you that way and reflect you as embodying that. A person who I thought cared about me started challenging my identity. Saying I wasn't acting like a real man. That I couldn't be both a girl and a boy that I had to choose. I told them clearly there isn't one type of guy and that I was male regardless of how their definition went. But they just kept pushing. Saying every time I said or did something femme they'd call it out because that's what their guy friends would do for them and this is how they were raised. pushing and pushing and pushing. And then when I got upset they said they didn't know what the big deal was. This person sounds like they experience gender as society bullying people and people having to choose which kind of abuse they get. Someone not "choosing" in their eyes is escaping this abuse so needs to be punished, because this person has not been courageous enough to refuse to take the abuse. If I knew them I'd ask them how they've experienced their own gender and whether they feel limited by it, whether they've wanted to do things outside it but have chosen not to. They may respond that they have but view gender restrictions as necessary for society to function or some such acceptance of a crappy situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Kappamaki Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Bah, there's no way dressing up in a few frills can invalidate your gender! Gender expression and gender identity aren't the same thing. At all! If they were, tomboys would just be "boys." And I'd change genders every time I wore clothes! By the way, plenty of transwomen are tomboys, and plenty of transmen are tomgirls - including ones who transition 100% socially and medically - and that doesn't invalidate their genders, either! It also sounds possible to me that your friend, while misguided, is honestly just trying to help you present as more masculine. Maybe he's not saying you're not a real man if you have certain likes or mannerisms - maybe he's just trying to help you be seen as male by others, but he's screwing up and, without realizing it, just making you feel awful instead. If this is the case, you'd better explain to him that he's not helping and ask him to stop! Link to post Share on other sites
dash Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Gender identity =/= gender expression. There are very femme cis men (of all sexual orientations). There are very femme trans men (of all sexual orientations). There are trans men who like to do drag. Anyone who says that you're not a 'real man" or "real boy" because you're femme is full of crap, and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. Here, have some genders! http://www.yaygender.net/pages/gender.pl I also saw a really good YouTube video once about a really femme trans man and the crap people gave him like "why do you want to be a boy if you like wearing makeup and glitter and dresses, JUST STAY A GIRL, you know?" /sigh/ Link to post Share on other sites
Mx.Jekyll Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 If you identify as male, you are a male. That is the only thing that matters. You can wear dresses and makeup and still be male. Your "friend" is an asshole. End of story. Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'm the same as you are, though I don't know if exactly. I see myself as a boy, no man. I'm also kind of a gentleboy instead of a gentleman. I have no need for all the facial hair or superb muscles. At the same time I haven't let go of all my femme habits so it's okay. Don't need to be man enough to be trans (or *). As long as you feel male, go with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I just want to say, I love seeing reclamation of identities like this, even if society only reserves them for people of a certain age range. Link to post Share on other sites
Dodecahedron314 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You are what and who you are, period. If this person doesn't think so or agree with you, then that's their problem for being completely, utterly, and undeniably WRONG, and in no way, shape, form, or fashion is it your problem for being too awesome for them. The only "right" way to express your gender is the way that's true to yourself. If that aligns with how other people think your gender "should" be? Cool. If it doesn't? Well, sucks for them, because you are a completely valid person whether they like it or not, and they're just going to have to get over it while you're busy doing whatever you feel suits you best. I kind of pity this unnamed misguided person with a completely twisted concept of gender, though, because it sounds like they might not have had the best of upbringings as far as tolerance is concerned. My friends and family constantly being the gender police would drive me nuts (thankfully it's really only my dad who does it, because my mom has always had friends from all over the LGBTQIAP+etc. acronym, and two of my four really good friends are openly transgender and nonbinary themselves). Despite culture's strenuous attempts to tell us otherwise, questioning others' masculinity does not enhance one's own. Link to post Share on other sites
artandceramics Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Your identity is valid and only you can define it, not some asshole who can't deal with diverse presentations of genders. You feel and say that you are a femme boy, then you are a femme boy and that is awesome. Just because they were raised like that doesn't mean they are allowed to hurt you and make you feel dysphoric. There are trans guys don't need to transition or present as masculine (whatever the definition of that is). Their identity is enough to them. Anyone can wear frilly things and dress up and in my opinion more people should because pretty clothes look great on everyone, regardless of gender. You say that it had been a perfect feeling until that person started to challenge your identity. They are wrong to do so. And I hope you'll be able to overcome that and feel comfortable with yourself again. I'm totally in agreement with theam. I'm a 'pretty-boy' when I'm male, and that's ok. I understand where your fear comes from. Sending hugs. You're perfectly valid. The behaviour of your friend stems from being constantly reminded of the gender binary. Leave that behind. Link to post Share on other sites
Heart Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think I just fell in love again with AVEN and our community. *swoons* Seriously, guys, gals, and all inbetween. I love these responses. I came here to write basically everything that has been written before me, but you guys have phrased it all so well I can't think of anything to add. So here's my best go: *spews super awesome support and affirmation that you can in fact be a dude that dresses in frills*. In fact, I kinda have a mini-squish on every man and boy ever who wears stuff that is defined, traditionally, as not masculine. Here, have some genders! http://www.yaygender.net/pages/gender.pl I also saw a really good YouTube video once about a really femme trans man and the crap people gave him like "why do you want to be a boy if you like wearing makeup and glitter and dresses, JUST STAY A GIRL, you know?" /sigh/ That link actually made me smile. Thank you so much dash. I think I'll keep it, for future use when I'm feeling down. It's going straight into my feel good bookmarks folder! Link to post Share on other sites
TooOldForThis Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 A good friend of mine, who is cisgender and female, dresses and has always dressed almost exclusively in clothes from the men's section. A lot of her mannerisms are also either more traditionally masculine or at least androgynous, or unisex. I have another (cis, female) friend who dresses and acts very traditionally feminine. These two women are also good friends with one another, and neither considers herself 'more of a woman' than the other. Your clothes, mannerisms, relationship style, etc. do not determine or influence your gender. Your gender might well influence your mannerisms and so on, but the way in which that would happen is unpredictable at best. Your acquaintance has no idea what they're talking about, and should therefore stop talking about it. Sorry their words made you feel bad. You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. There's no 'one true way' to be male. Be male however you bloody well please, provided you don't hurt anyone or whatever, and don't bother about anyone saying otherwise. If you want to talk or anything feel free to PM. Sorry again about your experience. Link to post Share on other sites
flamboy-ant Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 i ended up going to the link you posted. I added some fire an lightning and flowers.I just want to say thank you, you guys. I appreciate all the love and support so much. you have no idea how happy it made me seeing that SO many people had responded and every, single, comment was positive and full of love. i haven't talked to the guy yet. i told him i need space (that's actually how it all started. he was saying real-guys don't need space.) but yeah. told him i need space. space from him feels.. super peaceful. but thank you guys really. thank you. thank you. thank you. THANK YOU Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 It's fine if you're feminine but in all honesty, fuck men and lesbophobes who think men can be "femmes" or "butches", these words are for lesbians and men shouldn't have any access to them, lmao. Link to post Share on other sites
Starbogen Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 To put it simply you can be as feminine as you want and still be a guy. If you identify as a guy, then there you go. Masculinity or masculine expression does not equal maleness and a lack of it doesn't invalidate a male identity. Link to post Share on other sites
DC69 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Sweetie, Be yourself and don't ever let anyone force you into not liking the things that you like, or doing the things that you like to do. I know that it is hard sometimes, well maybe a lot of the time, when you are young to travel to that different drum but it will leave an emptiness inside of you if you ignore those things just because you think that people won't like you if you don't. It took me decades to learn that lesson and now at 60+ years old it's hard to believe that I allowed myself to do it. This is one of those things that I wish I could go back and do things over with the knowledge that I have now. Remember always that there is nothing wrong with you and to do what you know is right for you. Best wishes for a long, happy, and fantastic life. - DC Link to post Share on other sites
Heart Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 This topic has been locked, as it is old. If you want to start a new conversation, please feel free to start a new thread. Heart Gender Discussion Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
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