Spock and other Asexual Characters in Literature

[MacAran]

With the recent passing of Leonard Nimoy, I've been seeing a lot of article about him, and his most iconic character, Commander Spock. Specifically, this article. Reading through it occurred to me that Vulcans in general, and Spock specifically, are kind of an asexual species. Don't get me wrong, I'm not equating asexuality to emotionlessness. Rather, that for Vulcans sex is only a biological necessity, and little else. And if you look at the character over time, it's clear that, although he keeps his feelings hidden, Spock feels very deeply, and forms powerful bonds to the people he cares about. It's just that sex never is, or needs to be, a part of that.

I wanna know what you guys think of this, and what other characters y'all can think of that are, or could be read to be asexual.

[The Great WTF]

Vulcan culture is specifically centered around the suppression of emotions and the reliance on logic. Lust would most likely qualify as an illgocial and unnecesary emotion, thus would be pushed away and suppressed. Much as I love him, if we were classify Spock as anything, it would probably be repressed or celibate, not asexual.

Granted, we're talking about an alien species with alien biology. Applying human sexualities to aliens (even half aliens) is somewhat illogical. There's also the concept of Pon Farr to consider, which could be an argument for him being a very specific type of grey-a... or an animal. I'm curious about whether their cousins, the Romulans, go through Pon Farr as well or are more sexually human-like. I don't remember if it's ever been mentioned in the series.

[Null_and_Void]

Vulcans in general, and Spock specifically, are kind of a sexual species.

Oh god, the typo, it hurts.

I don't think a character who literally isn't even human (I know he's half human, but you get the point) is very good representation. It's like Dexter being asexual (until he "got over it") not being great representation because he's a serial killer (though personally I'd call that great, given his victims).

[Lyodor Tolstoyevski]

There's a story I wrote a few months ago that I thought was just an interesting thought exercise, but since I've realized I'm ace, I also realized that it was a very ace story from the get-go. So I decided to expand on it and write a second chapter that made it a little more blatant. The second chapter required me to come up with a name for my protagonist. I probably spent more time trying to decide on a name than actually writing. I got to that line and just stopped, turned off my computer, took a walk, and didn't get back to it until hours later.

So what name did I come up with? Leonard. Not a coincidence.

(in case anyone is interested, the story is here)

[ThaHoward]

By that logic many amphibian species are asexual. Perhaps they are from our point of view, but that doesnt make them asexual. You're basically applying human biology and culture to another species.

[MacAran]

Vulcans in general, and Spock specifically, are kind of a sexual species.

Oh god, the typo, it hurts.

Oh God, I'm so sorry. Retroactively fixing that one.

[Guest]

Hmm. Vulcans are very sexual creatures, just only within Pon Farr. Every seven years they must mate, or they die. They literally NEED sex to survive. Tuvok used a hologram after treatments failed. Spock got over it by Mccoy faking Kirks death, losing his mate in an ancient ritual. T'Pol used a member of the crew that she was in a relationship with. The Vulcan on Voyager accidentally infected B'lana and they both overcame it by fighting each other in the ancient ritual. They psychically bond their children together at a young age, so that they can easily have a sexual mate when Pon Farr hits, as it's a logical thing to just have sex and get it over with rather than enter a fight to death like in the old days to win a mate.

... I would consider biologically needing sex to not die and entering into an uncontrollable and violent haze of lust every 7 years pretty far from being asexual, personally. They would literally kill their best friend just to get to have sex.

[fuzzipueo]

Vulcan culture is specifically centered around the suppression of emotions and the reliance on logic. Lust would most likely qualify as an illgocial and unnecesary emotion, thus would be pushed away and suppressed. Much as I love him, if we were classify Spock as anything, it would probably be repressed or celibate, not asexual.

Granted, we're talking about an alien species with alien biology. Applying human sexualities to aliens (even half aliens) is somewhat illogical. There's also the concept of Pon Farr to consider, which could be an argument for him being a very specific type of grey-a... or an animal. I'm curious about whether their cousins, the Romulans, go through Pon Farr as well or are more sexually human-like. I don't remember if it's ever been mentioned in the series.

Part of the reason the Vulcans practice suppressing their emotions and rely so heavily on logic is because of how intense, raw, violent, and wild they are. My suspicion, given that they essentially rejected the teachings of Surak, Romulans are very passionate and active in their sex lives, but since they have not drifted that far from their Vulcan heritage, probably have similar timing in their mating dances (that is, the seven year cycle).

[MacAran]

Technically yes, I am anthropomorphizing, but that is the whole point of science fiction as a form of literature. It explores the human condition using non human entities to highlight cultural and societal issues. As for Spock specifically, I would quote then Admiral Kirk "Of all the souls I have met in my travels, his was the most... human."

As for Pon Farr. It is a biological need. After-all, if a sexually reproducing species never had sex it would die out. It seems to me that the existence of Pon Farr is evidence for rather than against my idea. Sex could be such a small part of their social interaction that a biological fugue is evolutionarily necessary to propagate the species. To my way of thinking, it's similar to how many asexuals experience arousal and the desire for sexual release, but have no desire for partnered sex, and that sex has no particular place in their life as a social interaction. Biological need for sex does not equate to a desire for sex.

As for the cultural differences, is compare American culture to Japanese culture, Russian culture to Indian Culture, or Western European culture to Middle Eastern culture. Even within America you can compare metropolitan New York to rural Virginia an see vast differences. Given those extremes, does than really make Vulcan culture so alien as to defy comparison?

[ThaHoward]

Compare frogs sexuality to human sexuality to a tarantella spider's sexuality. Then you will see vast differences. Then you can on top of that spice it up with cultural differences (if frogs and tarantualleas had cultures). You're basically looking at a - fictional - species and assuming they follow the same rules as human sexuality and biology. Perhaps they can bue considered as an asexual species, but that does not make them asexual in the same way as humans would be asexual.

[Guest]

Pon Farr has existed since before they were a logical species, so the evolutionary idea doesn't really work. Back when they were primal, sexual and violent beings, worse than humans in letting emotions control them... they still had Pon Farr. They just chose to fight to the death back then and now have a more logical way of handling it.

Also, an ace with a libido masturbating is far different from a Vulcan seeing an attractive mate and pursuing them for sex, because their hormones are telling them to once every seven years. To the point they will not relent until someone either dies, or they get sex. It's not just a libido, it's a need for partnered sex. Tuvok tried to handle it on his own WITHOUT sex because he felt as if he was cheating on his wife to do it the way he knew he needed to, nothing worked. He needed actual partnered intercourse and had to pursue that. How that can be compared to someone having a libido and wanting to masturbate?

When a Vulcan is not trained from birth, or rejects their training, they are much like a Romulan. As shown in Tuvok's rejection, that took years at a monastery to overcome. And Sybok's rejection, in favor of embracing emotions. Romulans are naturally sexual in most cases, with seduction being a huge part of their politics. The only difference I see between the two species is one embraced emotions and one embraced logic and repressing emotions (especially since Romulans are the minority that rejected Surak's teachings and left Vulcan.. )

[MacAran]

Setting the species as a whole aside, cause you only really get to understand a handful of Vulcans in the various series, I just think it's really awesome that you have this character (Spock) for whom sex as a form of social interaction is completely unwanted and unnecessary.

Hell, we can't even entirely agree agree amongst ourselves what does and doesn't qualify asexual, but I think having a character like that is nice, and is something I can relate to.

Also, please read the article linked and referenced in the OP.

[Techie]

One forgets that his character was half-human so he had to deal with the human fallibilities.

[scarletlatitude]

Just wanted to say, your collective knowledge of Star Trek is amazing.

Also, in answering the question about other possibly ace characters -- I believe that Sherlock is asexual.

[anonannona]

It's funny, because I grew up with Star Trek and was completely oblivious to a lot of the sexual messages that were/ weren't presented. I never really thought about Spock as a sexual or asexual character. But as to the original poster's thoughts on this, I kind of see it this way, now that I'm thinking about it: Regardless of whether Spock is sexual or not, he doesn't need sex or sexual activity to develop intimate, lasting, and fulfilling relationships with others. And that's the part I most identify with. I think it's also one of the defining characteristics of both Spock, and the Vulcan species. They feel deeply, they connect deeply, etc. and while yes, they have sex, it's not the center end all be all of their relationships, or even the foundation of their relationships or culture.

[thylacine]

... and don't forget the episode where Spock had a brief affair with a Romulan woman!

[Ace of Fishes]

I'll chime in that according to the top of this page, the question we should ask is whether Spock experiences sexual attraction. How would we know? Without being privy to his thoughts, we can only interpret his actions which are almost by definition those of a stoic Vulcan who would not show it if he felt it. So we have no evidence, except for cases when Spock lets his guard down. I don't think the incident with the Romulan commander counts, since she seemed to be the one actively trying to move the relationship forward whereas everything Spock did was ... logical given his circumstances and the mission's objective. I don't recall any episodes where Spock showed unmistakably genuine attraction, but then I haven't seen the whole series so I may be missing data. Actually, I always miss Data.

As for Pon Farr, I think a distinction needs to be made between it and sexual attraction. The latter seems to favor some individuals (i.e., the "hot" ones) over others whereas my impression of Pon Farr is that any mate will do and its only point is to create zygotes. Then in the Vulcan society we see the mates are picked in advance just to simplify the process rather than out of necessity. So I would say that Vulcans may be sexual (in the sense of Pon Farr), but might not experience sexual attraction. The banner atop Vulcan AVEN probably says something different.

Although, it occurs to me that since Romulans and Vulcans share a common ancestry and Romulans are definitely sexual by default (supported by the aforementioned commander), it would be logical to conclude that at the time of the split most Vulcans did experience sexual attraction in which case they would continue to do so up until the Star Trek era. Unless, however, feeling so attracted were seen as a defect causing the bearer to be a less suitable mate. Then the asexuals would ironically become the majority as long as they chose to procreate at all. Maybe the Vulcan AVEN is instead Vulcan SVEN.

[Lyodor Tolstoyevski]

Maybe the Vulcan AVEN is instead Vulcan SVEN.

Thank you. I'm now imagining a Swede with pointy ears.

[MacAran]

Actually, I always miss Data.

And Data misses Tasha Yar

[Soraiko]

I read that the Crystal Gems in Steven Universe are asexual. Since all of them seem to be female (or at least choose that form) and don't seem to need sex. That might not be a great example though. John Wayne Cleaver from the books by Dan Wells, might be asexual and possibly aromantic, or demiromantic. He's a psychopath though so, he might not be a great example either, but he is the hero of the story and doesn't want to hurt people. He only kills the demons to save everyone. I think he ends up loving someone by the end, but it's never a main point in the series and they don't use that as saying there's something wrong with him. I could always relate to him quite a lot.

[Guest]

I'll chime in that according to the top of this page, the question we should ask is whether Spock experiences sexual attraction. How would we know? Without being privy to his thoughts, we can only interpret his actions which are almost by definition those of a stoic Vulcan who would not show it if he felt it. So we have no evidence, except for cases when Spock lets his guard down. I don't think the incident with the Romulan commander counts, since she seemed to be the one actively trying to move the relationship forward whereas everything Spock did was ... logical given his circumstances and the mission's objective. I don't recall any episodes where Spock showed unmistakably genuine attraction, but then I haven't seen the whole series so I may be missing data. Actually, I always miss Data.

As for Pon Farr, I think a distinction needs to be made between it and sexual attraction. The latter seems to favor some individuals (i.e., the "hot" ones) over others whereas my impression of Pon Farr is that any mate will do and its only point is to create zygotes. Then in the Vulcan society we see the mates are picked in advance just to simplify the process rather than out of necessity. So I would say that Vulcans may be sexual (in the sense of Pon Farr), but might not experience sexual attraction. The banner atop Vulcan AVEN probably says something different.

Although, it occurs to me that since Romulans and Vulcans share a common ancestry and Romulans are definitely sexual by default (supported by the aforementioned commander), it would be logical to conclude that at the time of the split most Vulcans did experience sexual attraction in which case they would continue to do so up until the Star Trek era. Unless, however, feeling so attracted were seen as a defect causing the bearer to be a less suitable mate. Then the asexuals would ironically become the majority as long as they chose to procreate at all. Maybe the Vulcan AVEN is instead Vulcan SVEN.

On the Pon Farr not requiring attraction - they single in on a specific mate that they find appealing for their sexual mating urges. The Vulcan on Voyager had a thing for B'Lana, when he wanted sex, he singled in directly on her and no one else. He would not take a substitute mate, not anyone would do, they tried very hard to get him to take a different mate. He actually wanted her before the Pon Farr though (he had a crush), he just suppressed it and when Pon Farr happened, his logic and training was overruled by biology. They form the psychic bonds so that there IS a mate there. Sort of like arranged marriages. But, even so, the bonds don't mean they HAVE to go with that mate either. Spock's mate wanted a different man, so she arranged the fight between Kirk and Spock, knowing she would get the man she wanted no matter the outcome.

If the mate didn't matter and it was a purely biological drive to procreate, why all the trouble to get the single sex partner they desire? Wouldn't anyone do? I mean, the one on Voyager gave up mating completely due to his desire for her. And Spock's mate went through all the trouble of killing a Starfleet Captain and a very decorated one at that. Intentionally causing extreme guilt in her psychic bond mate betrothed at that.

And... to breed sexuality out like that would require asexuality to run in families. There is no evidence of that being a thing. So, two asexuals mating doesn't mean their child will be asexual.

[JSML]

Just wanted to say, your collective knowledge of Star Trek is amazing.

Also, in answering the question about other possibly ace characters -- I believe that Sherlock is asexual.

I think, along the same lines, so is Mycroft.

[Ace of Fishes]

On the Pon Farr not requiring attraction - they single in on a specific mate that they find appealing for their sexual mating urges. The Vulcan on Voyager had a thing for B'Lana, when he wanted sex, he singled in directly on her and no one else. He would not take a substitute mate, not anyone would do, they tried very hard to get him to take a different mate. He actually wanted her before the Pon Farr though (he had a crush), he just suppressed it and when Pon Farr happened, his logic and training was overruled by biology. They form the psychic bonds so that there IS a mate there. Sort of like arranged marriages. But, even so, the bonds don't mean they HAVE to go with that mate either. Spock's mate wanted a different man, so she arranged the fight between Kirk and Spock, knowing she would get the man she wanted no matter the outcome.

If the mate didn't matter and it was a purely biological drive to procreate, why all the trouble to get the single sex partner they desire? Wouldn't anyone do? I mean, the one on Voyager gave up mating completely due to his desire for her. And Spock's mate went through all the trouble of killing a Starfleet Captain and a very decorated one at that. Intentionally causing extreme guilt in her psychic bond mate betrothed at that.

Oddly enough, I re-watched "Amok Time" just this evening and noticed exactly that. I haven't seen whatever Voyager episode you're referring to but based on what you say I agree with your assessment. Apparently my impression was wrong.

[seneca]

There was an old pulp hero, Doc Savage. Basically,a billionaire superhero type who traveled the world doing good deeds and having adventures. He was asexual. Always said he wanted nothing to do with women.

[batmanpants]

I never considered Spock or other Vulcans as Asexual. I just thought they suppressed lust like they do with their emotion.

But strangely i's kinda always considered Sherlock Holmes as asexual.

[AceInhibitor]

I never considered Spock or other Vulcans as Asexual. I just thought they suppressed lust like they do with their emotion.

But strangely i's kinda always considered Sherlock Holmes as asexual.

I always consider Sherlock as ace. I honestly cannot see him as anything else, and it annoys me when some people *cough* Moffat *cough* claim he's not because that wouldn't be interesting, that it would only be interesting if he was celibate. I mean Elementary's Sherlock is quite sexual, but then in the first episode he points out that he considers sex necessary for optimum brain function, or something, so I was totally prepared to see him as ace but not averse to sex. Unfortunately some of the later episodes don't really lend themselves to that idea.

I see Emma Woodhouse as a very demiromantic asexual. I think her famous cluelessness around the arena of love is just really indicative that she's asexual. I know that given the time, it wasn't proper to show those kinds of feelings but I really feel like Emma is different to Austen's other heroines in that regard. She just seems really ace to me.

I recently discovered that Rorschach in Watchmen is meant to be asexual. I mean he could be, but equally he's a huge misogynist with no so I'm not fond of seeing him as ace purely based on the fact that he doesn't want to have sex with women, I feel like a lot of that is due to the misogynistic aspects rather than him necessarily being asexual. Adrian Veidt, on the other hand, I see as quite asexual although I know other people see him as gay, and I can kinda see that I suppose.

[Apostle of Carlin]

Seems to me that Spock is a sexual guy, by Vulcan standards, though Vulcan sexuality is pretty different from human sexuality.

Data's pretty interesting - he was never programmed to have anything resembling a human sex drive - he went through the motions of getting in a relationship in one TNG episode, but it just didn't work at all. That's something that I can identify with, being ace.

I do wonder if anything changed when Data got that emotion chip installed in Generations...

[Rockblossom]

As for asexuals in movies/TV, the first one who comes to mind is Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory.

[Shezilla]

Vulcan culture is specifically centered around the suppression of emotions and the reliance on logic. Lust would most likely qualify as an illgocial and unnecesary emotion, thus would be pushed away and suppressed. Much as I love him, if we were classify Spock as anything, it would probably be repressed or celibate, not asexual.

Granted, we're talking about an alien species with alien biology. Applying human sexualities to aliens (even half aliens) is somewhat illogical. There's also the concept of Pon Farr to consider, which could be an argument for him being a very specific type of grey-a... or an animal. I'm curious about whether their cousins, the Romulans, go through Pon Farr as well or are more sexually human-like. I don't remember if it's ever been mentioned in the series.

I'm going to assume (given the way the Romulan Commander was hitting on Spock in 'The Enterprise Incident') that Romulans are more human-like as far as sex customs go. I mean, she literally goes to 'change into something more comfortable'.

"Romulan women are not like Vulcan females. We are not dedicated to pure logic and the sterility of non-emotion."

They also kinda do the hand-face-touch thing that seems to equal 'passionate embrace' for Vulcans. Some kind of deep psychic connection equivalent in intensity to human sexual relations. In the original script they were supposed to make-out but the actors decided that was too human and not in character for individuals of totally different cultures and species. (I agree that applying human sexual categories like asexuality to species that can mind-meld is iffy at best).

And, man, was she pissed when she found out the whole thing was a ploy for Kirk to steal their cloaking device.

[Rockblossom]

I wanna know what you guys think of this, and what other characters y'all can think of that are, or could be read to be asexual.

As for books, the one who comes immediately to mind is Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter from Elizabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarrion. I really love Paks, not just because she is aro-ace, but because she is not a cardboard-cutout hero/heroine figure, but someone who has her own strengths and vulnerabilities. Paks doesn't think about her own looks even though she is apparently attractive to both men and women and gets her fair share of propositions, which she graciously deflects.