allosexuals, is this an accurate way to view sexual attraction?

[ellastokes]

the ace community heavily depends on a definition of sexual attraction and I feel we try to define this ourselves (when really we don't know) and not enough allos help define what they experience.


this is based off the description of one allo who did describe it, and I'm wondering if what I'm thinking is accurate.

the ace spectrum has me thinking that sexual attraction is just something that just flares up in a person, but I don't think this is entirely true.

first of all, I think that one is sexually driven to begin with. like...you KNOW and feel that your body wants sex and with these/this specific gender(s). It's like...your body is just calling out "I want sex right now". now, many allos report doing this subconscious thing where they scan everyone to see if they're attractive...it's just intrinsic. when their brain decides that someone is attractive, then this sexual desire gets pointed towards them. Their body is like "I want sex with you right now." (feeling this doesn't necessarily mean you will act on it of course)

and is that accurate? is that what happens? if not, please take time to detail your experiences (I know that you in fact can do it) because we really need this. I mean, you guys are the only ones who can really define it...what are we doing?

[Tarfeather]

It depends on what you means by "I want sex with you right now". It would be insulting to say that about the conscious individual. But if you're talking about physiological and subconscious reactions like libido, shift of attention toward that person, yes, absolutely. More on this later when I have time.

[Lady Girl]

first of all, I think that one is sexually driven to begin with. like...you KNOW and feel that your body wants sex and with these/this specific gender(s).

This part applies to me and the rest not so much. I don't really scan people and I don't experience sexual attraction in the "I want sex with you now" way either. My experience of sexuality/being sexual is kind of simple...I know I want sex (although I've been living without it in all ways, shapes, and forms for some time now) and I've always wanted it with my husband. When we split up for a couple years (about 18 years ago), I directed my sexual attention at others, but it wasn't what I truly wanted.

[Guest]

And here we get into ... it works differently for different people. The only thing I have found in common is the "I know I want sex" bit. Beyond that, the answers are so different when you ask different sexual people.

[Guest]

So, here's the thing about human sexuality: It isn't an extrinsic force that afflicts us and can be singly defined, but rather it is an intrinsic part of who we are. That means every person experiences their sexuality in a very personal, individual way. Everything you think, you feel, you believe, you understand... your sense of self, your emotionality... all of these things are specific to who you are. The same is true of sexuality. Personally, it's been my experience that I clock in somewhere in the hyper- end of the spectrum, and yet very few descriptions of sexual attraction or sexuality on AVEN resonate with my experiences. I think there's a significant misunderstanding amongst the asexual community regarding casual sex, for example. When I read these fights about what sexual attraction is, it boggles my mind. Imagine if we were talking about fear instead of sexual attraction:

"I really can't tell if I feel fear or not. I think I feel it when I watch horror movies, but I don't really feel it on rollercoasters. Is that fear?"

"Nah dude, if you feel fear during horror movies, that's just your body being your body, but if you feel fear while riding rollercoasters, I think that's just fear, man."

"Well I never feel fear."

"Well I'm a sapiofearist, I only feel fear when I think of scary things."

"That's stupid, it's impossible to feel fear without thinking of scary things."

"You don't know what I feel!"

"None of you know what you're talking about. Fear occurs when you see ghosts in graveyards AND THAT IS IT."

But like, you guys... it's seriously all just fear. Everyone's different and everyone experiences their experiences in very personal ways, and trying to draw distinctions between personal expressions of human nature is a gigantic waste of time, and it's a gross misunderstanding of the diversity of the human condition.

[Corretto]

I simply don't want sex with anyone, of whatever description. From the achievement of parenthood to the consensual physical act with any party.

My asexual orientation may seem an extreme...but it's complemented by an aromantic extreme that serves to deny me access to any physical and/or communicative association with any other person.

My participation in this site, and others, is the prominent consensual association I currently make with anyone...its members. [This excludes the functional purpose I employ when dealing with a shop-keeper etc].

This aro-ace orientation can make me very bored and lonely. Hence, the purpose of me participating here.

[Tarfeather]

Good point, Skullery. But I think I get what the OP is asking, and is something that indeed it makes sense to discuss.

Take the food analogy. When it comes to what someone will eat, it gets very complex, with a broad variety of factors: Money, diet, culture, ethical stuff and so on. However, even being vegetarian, sometimes I can smell meat and experience all the physical reactions that make me want to eat it. Yeah, sure, I usually suppress it with feelings of disgust and nausea, but it's there. So the physical reactions are something very fundamental and "simple", and I suspect most humans experience these in a similar way. I think the same is true for sexuality.

Let's not talk about "who you actually want to have sex with", because that is incredibly complex and depends on conscious choices, which in turn can depend on any arbitrary number of things the person considers important. Let's talk about that initial, subconscious, physical reaction to "suitable partners".

I think we can not ignore here the effect of biological sex. A female must by necessity experience different things than a male due to the fact that we have evolved to experience sexuality in a biologically different way. So the experiences I describe are already limited to the male sex, and then I obviously can't talk for everyone. I'm actually curious as to whether most other sexual males experience it the same way I do..

Now, the first thing is, even as a sexual I won't get these physical reactions with every and any "attractive person" who crosses my path. After all, this happens every day, I just get "used to it". Often what I experience is simply aesthetic appreciation of the other, and while I know that "this person is attractive to me", it doesn't lead to any significant emotions. It's like the "scanner" you speak of is active, but it doesn't exactly scan for people to have sex with, just for people whose appearance I appreciate.

However, every now and then, the "body wants to have sex" part will hit and hit hard. It's not something I have any control over. I might be on a particularly horny day. There might be someone who fascinates me on a subconscious level. It's a strong reaction, causing libido (something that might be visible if you look closely at my pants lol), triggering all sorts of "ideas", and completely rewriting my perception of the person. It often goes along with being much more aware of the body of the other (particularly the things showing through their clothes). It would be impossible to ignore.

I think many sexual males experience something like this. But it shouldn't become your go-to definition for "sexual desire" or whatever, because it's not the only way that your sexual orientation can become apparent. For instance, when I'm "in love" with someone, my body will dampen this particular reaction (along with the desire to eat, ironically) and the more "romantic" aspects of "I want you" will be pushed to the front. Similarly, there are people who don't experience this strong physical reaction, but still have a desire for sex in one way or another (they might be gray-a though).

What you can take away from this is that if you're male and you don't experience this, that already makes you different from many other males. It doesn't necessarily mean you're asexual; But it means you'll have a hard time understanding what all the "hype" is about, so to speak. Furthermore, it is not something "constantly" present like the OP implied, but particularly during teen years it will be "common" enough that you simply can't ignore it.

[ellastokes]

Now, the first thing is, even as a sexual I won't get these physical reactions with every and any "attractive person" who crosses my path. After all, this happens every day, I just get "used to it". Often what I experience is simply aesthetic appreciation of the other, and while I know that "this person is attractive to me", it doesn't lead to any significant emotions. It's like the "scanner" you speak of is active, but it doesn't exactly scan for people to have sex with, just for people whose appearance I appreciate.

However, every now and then, the "body wants to have sex" part will hit and hit hard. It's not something I have any control over. I might be on a particularly horny day. There might be someone who fascinates me on a subconscious level. It's a strong reaction, causing libido (something that might be visible if you look closely at my pants lol), triggering all sorts of "ideas", and completely rewriting my perception of the person. It often goes along with being much more aware of the body of the other (particularly the things showing through their clothes). It would be impossible to ignore.

Pretty cool. Would like to hear more from others so I can see if this is how most people experience it.

I'm pretty sure that gr-ace (gray-ace) could be used to describe me because I don't feel this intrisic physical desire for sex, and no one has ever triggered it in me except for a few occassions. like...I've done that thing where I just notice the person's body...like that is the one time that I've ever checked someone out (I don't think guys and girls are so different). I've spent maybe five minutes feeling sexual attraction in my life....how much time would you estimate your experiences (just wanna compare)?

I don't know though how to define myself as a sexual being. I mean, I scarcely experience biological arousal, but still on some days the thought of sex gives me tingly feelings (although it's not the usually persistent feeling of arousal that you can't ignore), and sometimes I feel like sex would actually be super fun. On some days I feel a little repulsed. I don't know rather or not this affects my sexual identity. The times when I feel interested in being with someone and into cuddling sexually (and not getting into IT) makes me feel like I'm more than gr-ace. Taking into account this fuller definition of sexual orientation (that can't be define I don't think by one simple word) I'm not sure.

I think I'm kind of semi-sexual. I could go without sex, sure. I have no real pull towards it...it isn't even as cool in practice probably as it is in theory. But part of me wouldn't mind being sexually...just seems like a rich experiences...and like I said...I wouldn't mind fondling sexually...but I'm not sure if I'd frequently if ever would want to actually have sex.

~~confused~~

[butterflydreams]

So, here's the thing about human sexuality: It isn't an extrinsic force that afflicts us and can be singly defined, but rather it is an intrinsic part of who we are. That means every person experiences their sexuality in a very personal, individual way.

Exactly! So exactly.

I realize it's hard for people first getting into understanding their own sexuality, or asexuality as the case may be. You want the clear cut definition. You want someone else to look at you, say, "hmm..." and "let me consult my chart" and then tell you you're asexual/gay/straight/whatever. It doesn't work that way. Your own personal experience is unfathomably unique. Unfortunately, it's you and only you who has to decide how to categorize your experience.

Maybe it's because everyone is just assumed to be heterosexual and therefore there's no expectation that you'd have to embark on a long, difficult, introspective journey into discovering who you are. You just are heterosexual. You don't have to do anything. Except you do. Everyone does. Whether they realize it or not. The dividing lines aren't that clear cut. They're rather fuzzy. Much like determining an electron's position, speed and direction all at once, declaring your sexuality cleanly and definitively can't be done. Don't let anyone fool you by saying they're "sure". They're "sure" to a certain degree. That degree is enough for them, which is all it needs to be.

And it is quite relative and subjective too. There are differences between my friends and me in terms of sexuality. I know Skullery and myself are probably very different in our sexualities. It's a matter of hoovering up all those little data points, those experiences, those amorphous feelings and saying, "yes, I feel like I'm in this general area over here. I see others like me. I feel comfortable there." That's all it is. You can't think your way to understanding your sexuality. You'll just drive yourself crazy.

I can't even believe I'm going to say this, but it really is the kind of thing you'll just know. But not after reading a definition here and there. Not after having "regular sexuals" describe their experience to you (it's unique to them, remember?). Not after thinking about it "real hard". You may not ever fully know for many years. It's a process, and a potentially lengthy one. You can't skip it. You may not ever finish it. I know I certainly haven't.

[Glad-I-Found-This-Site]

Before coming to this site to better understand my asexual wife, I made the mistake of assuming that all people experienced sec and arousal the same way. I viewed my wife as broken, or perhaps just needing the right buttons to be pushed. I am more understanding now.

As for me, I fit the stereotype of the guy who has sex on his mind all day. When I walk through life, I constantly scan the room for attractive females. My eyes go from face, to breasts, to butt - and back again - all day. A trip to the gym is torture. Hanging out with female friends who casually talk about sex is torture. Saying goodnight to my wife when all I want is sex is torture.

I compare it to being hungry. For me, mentally it comes from that same place in the mind. Simply stated, I'm a hungry guy surrounded by food. I might be more sexuality charged at times, but there is always a low level, baseline interest in sex. I'm always scanning the room asking myself, "Would I?" (as in "Would I have sex with her?").

This is where I think that some asexual people (my wife included) aren't very sensitive. She expects me to be sensitive to her lack of interest in sex, but while she acknowledges the place it has in my life, she tends to view my sexual desire as an annoyance. I realize that she doesn't have a concept for what it is like to be horny all the time, but I get frustrated that the analogies don't make sense to her and that she doesn't see the need to discuss them or try to help me make sense of life as a sexual living with an asexual. I get my ten minutes (approximate) per month where I can be sexual with her. That's it. If there was something she felt missing - something she longed for all day, every day - I'd like to think that I would be more sensitive when discussing the issue.

[Cheerful]

I take issue with the definition of 'sexual attraction' as well. I have always known I'm Asexual, but once a month for 45 years, I had the instinctual urge to find some twigs, build a nest and lay an egg.

If that was taken into consideration, I felt sexual attraction and would not be Asexual.

[ellastokes]

I have always known I'm Asexual, but once a month for 45 years, I had the instinctual urge to find some twigs, build a nest and lay an egg.

Wat?

Is that some kind of....euphemism for wanting to do the DO?

Because if so, you're still on the spectrum at least. You could be gr-ace, but it's up to you to define what you are.

Also, this discussion is going great I think. I would LOVE to have more people explain their experiences like others have done. I'm getting a pretty good understanding of sexuality and where I stand most likely.

[Cheerful]

 

I have always known I'm Asexual, but once a month for 45 years, I had the instinctual urge to find some twigs, build a nest and lay an egg.

Wat?

 

Ovulation. :)

I had one day per month with such a hormone surge, that everything in me was screaming to fertilize that egg.

I never acted on the impulse, and I'm glad those days are behind me now, but it did give me some insight into how sexuals must feel at times. They have my sympathy.

[Tarfeather]

Before coming to this site to better understand my asexual wife, I made the mistake of assuming that all people experienced sec and arousal the same way. I viewed my wife as broken, or perhaps just needing the right buttons to be pushed. I am more understanding now.

As for me, I fit the stereotype of the guy who has sex on his mind all day. When I walk through life, I constantly scan the room for attractive females. My eyes go from face, to breasts, to butt - and back again - all day. A trip to the gym is torture. Hanging out with female friends who casually talk about sex is torture. Saying goodnight to my wife when all I want is sex is torture.

You have my sympathies, friend. :( I always considered myself hypersexual due to how often I need a "release", but I haven't felt quite that strongly since my teenage years. And yes, I can remember it, and can remember how much of a torture it was. Stay strong.

[Busrider]

I guess everybody is different and Scullery Maid got it pretty right.

Anyhow: I can't believe in the "I want sex now" -> *crowd scan* mechanic. - It might work with enough surplus money looking for a sex worker to hire, wherever these line up, but in real social life? - When I attended lectures I was looking around at my co-students looking for attractive ones, but hey, where could that lead at very best? - Managing to end in a situation demanding / allowing to say "hello" 3 weeks later? - "I want sex now" doesn't fit into the picture!

OK maybe I never experienced primary sexual attraction consciously. If my attention locks on somebody there has to be more to develop or not. - Deciding if I consider somebody socially pleasant and maybe more and more romanticaly attractive takes time and interaction.

I have no clue what sexual attraction is. I only believe: There must be something else too. "Sexual inspiration"? A lot of the attraction stuff works subconsciously. That makes the entire thing of course harder to analyze.

Maybe I have been grey A all my life and didn't know it? - The sight of a stranger never triggered any conscious sexual fantasy in me.

[CupofCoffee]

I'm not a very "sexual" individual, so I may not be the best person to respond to this question, but for me...

When I do pay attention to the people around me, and I find that someone is attractive, usually I think: Oh, they have nice features, and then I tend to just carry on with whatever I was thinking about. But, I rarely think "Oh, I NEED/want to have sex with that person". I much prefer to get to know someone first.

[Guest]

It seems really hard to define. I guess the description in the OP is one way, but I can't really say I subconsciously scan people to see if I'm attracted to them or not. (At least, not in a sexual way. Aesthetically I do.) I just don't think of individuals in that way. That is why for a little bit I thought I might have been gray-a.

I am definitely attracted to a gender, though. My drive just isn't directed towards individuals belonging to either physical gender. To me, I define the way this is for me as sexual attraction to males--if I want to have sex, I want it to be with a male. But any fantasies remain faceless. Whether this is because I would view imagining a particular individual as disrespectful or just because I'm just not inclined to do things that way, I don't know.

[EricK]

Before coming to this site to better understand my asexual wife, I made the mistake of assuming that all people experienced sec and arousal the same way. I viewed my wife as broken, or perhaps just needing the right buttons to be pushed. I am more understanding now.

As for me, I fit the stereotype of the guy who has sex on his mind all day. When I walk through life, I constantly scan the room for attractive females. My eyes go from face, to breasts, to butt - and back again - all day. A trip to the gym is torture. Hanging out with female friends who casually talk about sex is torture. Saying goodnight to my wife when all I want is sex is torture.

I compare it to being hungry. For me, mentally it comes from that same place in the mind. Simply stated, I'm a hungry guy surrounded by food. I might be more sexuality charged at times, but there is always a low level, baseline interest in sex. I'm always scanning the room asking myself, "Would I?" (as in "Would I have sex with her?").

Although I am asexual, I am always scanning the room asking myself "Would I?" And the answer always come back "No!". I think there's a part of me that knows I "should" find some of these people attractive.

[binary suns]

cook a stew and put it on a plate. eat all the food, and what is left is a syrupy sort of gravy, you know?

if you take that gravy, and given a spoon, and told to divide the gravy into 5 squares, because that is how gravy is supposed to work, well you just can't do it. you leave trails of gravy and trails of not-gravy behind as you try to group it all together. if you try a different approach, you still just can't get it all to behave. because gravy doesn't naturally form into square groups.

[Guest]

cook a stew and put it on a plate. eat all the food, and what is left is a syrupy sort of gravy, you know?

if you take that gravy, and given a spoon, and told to divide the gravy into 5 squares, because that is how gravy is supposed to work, well you just can't do it. you leave trails of gravy and trails of not-gravy behind as you try to group it all together. if you try a different approach, you still just can't get it all to behave. because gravy doesn't naturally form into square groups.

My new favorite thing.

[Francoise Wang]

I'm asexual, so I think I'm not a good person to answer it. But this is what I imagine sexual attraction feels like for sexual people (I don't know if it's correct).

I love cats. So when I see a cute cat in front of me, I would have an urge to cuddle it and stroke it's fur. The main reason is not because the physical sensation of touching it's fur feels good (although it does feel very good), the main reason is stroking the cat makes me feel emotionally connected to the cute cat, and it gives me great emotional satisfaction. And it can't be replaced by stroking other furry things, such as stuffed toys, even if the physical sensation is exactly the same. Because I just want to stroke THAT cat. And if I see a cute cat in front of me, but I'm not allowed to touch it, I would be frustrated. So how do I know if I really want to touch the cat, and which cat do I want to touch, and what's the exact way I want to touch the cat? When I feel it, I just know it.

So I guess when sexual people meet a sexually attractive person, they would have the urge to do something to that person with their genitals, just like seeing a cute cat and having the urge to stroke it.

Also, I guess male and female and other genders experience sexual attraction differently on average, because the brain structure of people of different gender are slightly different.

And, I guess sexual people still need some emotional bond to "want to have sex with a person". Just like romantic people still need some emotional bond to "want to form romantic relationship with a person", even people who are very romantic won't see a random attractive stranger and immediately think "I want him/her to be my boyfriend/girlfriend" seriously.

It's just my way to try to understand why sex is important for sexual people. Not sure if it is correct.

[Tarfeather]

So I guess when sexual people meet a sexually attractive person, they would have the urge to do something to that person with their genitals, just like seeing a cute cat and having the urge to stroke it.

TMI:

Actually, no, I never get the urge to do something to someone with my genitals. When I see an attractive stranger, I usually don't get an urge to do anything but look at them. But sometimes I'm in a very horny mood, then I get a desire to undress them, touch their skin, hold them. But not a desire for penetration or otherwise touching them with my genitals. Sometimes I get a desire to touch my girlfriend's genitals, but that's more out of a desire to get her aroused, than actually wanting to touch her genitals (ew). I imagine that with a properly sexual partner, the various things I want to do might eventually lead to sex, but that's not the immediate thing on my mind.

And, I guess sexual people still need some emotional bond to "want to have sex with a person".

No, that's demisexual. Just yesterday I was very horny, saw a random hot woman on the street, and my brain went "Wonder what she'd look like undressed..". :>

[GeorgeSand]

I want to add that it's not necessarily dependent upon how someone looks. Which may be obvious to sexuals, but maybe not to asexuals?

For instance, if you put my husband in a line up with other average looking men, with a thick piece of glass between us, there is no way that I would choose him as a sexual partner. He is just not visually attractive to me.

But damn, at the end of the first day we spent together in person, we hugged - and I tell you, the six hour car ride I had home was a white-knuckler, I was so aroused. Every bit of my body was tingly, including my brain, I think. A tingliness that I recognized as sexual. It was hard to concentrate, very much like being on a drug such as morphine except it didn't make you sleepy, just clouded your thoughts. Every thing was a little foggy, but my touch sensation was very alert. I wanted to touch and be touched by him, in ways that you wouldn't let just anyone touch you.

I believe that is what would fall firmly into the category of "chemistry".

I continue to be attracted to my husband, though after eight years, I'm not quite so sensitive. I can hug and kiss him without being overcome by the fog of arousal, for instance. He still hasn't changed into Brad Pitt (I haven't found the right oil lamp to rub yet *wink* ). And I haven't changed into Charlize Theron. No, really, that's fine by me. I'm more interested in other traits. So for some, visual, physical attraction is a required part of arousal. But it is not necessarily required for everyone.

[Tarfeather]

I want to add that it's not necessarily dependent upon how someone looks. Which may be obvious to sexuals, but maybe not to asexuals?

I've actually never felt attracted to someone I didn't find physically attractive just from looks. Though it's never been put to the test either.. Like I've never met a woman in my life I didn't find attractive, yet somehow ended up admiring for her intelligence. Maybe it's that I find intelligence attractive and automatically find an intelligent woman to be physically beautiful, I don't really know.

I believe that is what would fall firmly into the category of "chemistry".

And I still don't know what that means. It's never happened to me, ever, in my two and a half decades of living. The most annoying part is that no woman has ever felt this way about me, either. So to me the word "chemistry" is basically "that magic thing that makes a woman want you and that can not be explained so there's no way for you to raise your chances for it to happen". That kinda gives me a negative reaction toward the whole concept. :>

[GeorgeSand]

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it can't! *wink*

I assume it has something to do with the way our pheromones interacted. Or at least, my pheromones were triggered by something I sensed in him, perhaps some unconscious smell... maybe his pheromones.

I actually felt the same way with another person I knew in college, who absolutely was not visually attractive, and who incidentally had the same name as my husband... wow. Being near him made me practically vibrate.

I know what you mean about intelligence being sexy. Totally. Both of them are incredibly intelligent, some of the most intelligent people I know, but I hadn't really been around my husband enough at that point in time to fully grasp that. Well, consciously, anyway.

Magic, it's all magic and sorcery!

[Guest]

I've been all over the place with my sexuality (still working out details and get very confused at times) since I last posted in this thread, ha. (Also I didn't really know the definition of allosexual when posting in this thread before.) I'm back to gray-a, and still questioning.

To my understanding, attraction is a psychological thing, and from what I've read it works in such a way that you're attracted to someone whose genes would be compatible with your's. So it would make perfect sense that personality and other non-visible factors would play a part in this, too. Attraction is meant to be geared towards the possibility of procreation, after all. (Not that that's all there is to sex, it's also a bonding and enjoyment thing. Sex does not have to be about procreation, just from an evolutionary standpoint it is.)

I don't know if non-sexual types of attraction are the same way or not. Probably, in sexuals, the different types of attraction normally go together?

I, being open to sex, would prefer to have it with someone I am emotionally bonded with, and would be most likely to be emotionally bonded with someone who I was attracted to in some way, if not sexually. If I do experience sexual attraction, I don't seem to experience it very strongly. I am far more focused on aesthetic and emotional (platonic or romantic) attraction.