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Offensive Friend


FiSci

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TW I guess for mentions of transphobic language.

So, I'm really close to one of my friends - like, we do everything together, and like all the same stuff, which is great. But today she started a conversation that quite frankly horrified me. In her village, there's a transgender woman, but my friend started being really offensive. First of all, she starts calling the woman a 'tranny'. When I objected, she then used words like "it" and "thing", and refused to refer to her as, well, a her. I was completely horrified and appalled, and we ended up getting into a really big argument about it, and now she won't speak to me. Thing is, I was thinking about telling her that I'm genderfluid - which, judging by her reaction to the lady in her village, probably wouldn't go down well. So now I don't think I ever will tell her. But I'm not sure what to do, now - should I try and change her mind and get her to see how offensive she's being, or leave it be? I'm not sure I can really think of her in the same way now, because I'd always thought of her as a level headed, accepting person.

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If you feel safe and comfortable doing so, trying to show her how offensive she's being would probably be good since she has to live in a world with other people and being offensive and bigoted isn't a good way to do that, and especially since there's a trans person in her village (who presumably has to actually deal with her), it would be best if she can be accepting. That said, you're not under any obligation to educate her, and it's your choice.

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Certified Cake Decorator

I thought my dad was safe and level headed once. Then i noticed he says things like "that's so gay" to mean stupid and calls trans people either by their birth sex or "it".

Arent we supposed to trust our parents? Look up to them? Our friends too.

How can we trust anyone if everyone has the capacity to be such idiots and jerks and not even care AFTER we correct them?

Its like some people LIKE hurting others. Its really dumb.

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Maybe try gently telling her that the trans woman did not choose to be born that way and ask her to imagine herself in that woman's shoes. Tell her to try and imagine being born different and have people treat her harshly for it. It might open her eyes.

Of course this is just one possible option if you choose to try and convince her. Whether you are going to try or not is up to you though.

On the other hand, this could be a defense mechanism. It is possible your friend is acting this way because of something that happened to her. Maybe she isn't cis-female and tried to come out to someone and was treated badly for it. Maybe she was taught that there is only male and female and anything else is "wrong" or an "abomination". Afterall you mentioned a village and some villages are small and set in their ways...(some, not all.) so maybe upbringing is where this reaction is coming from?

Well whatever you decide and whatever happens I really hope it works out well and that it doens't harm your friendship any further.

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Could you go into more detail about how this conversation developed and transpired? I'm having a hard time gauging what kind of person your friend is with the details provided so far.

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Thanks for the advice! I've tried telling her to imagine she woke up in a guys body, but still felt like a girl, and how hard that would be, but she won't have any of it. I highly doubt that she's non-binary, but her family is very negative about anyone who isn't straight or cis-gendered....so maybe she picked it up from that, or is non binary. Hmm, interesting thought. I'm still going to try and talk to her about it - I still have faith that she didn't mean to be offensive, and that she didn't know any better....I hope that's the case.

As for how the conversation came to be, we were actually in a citizenship class learning about Courts and stuff. And we were discussing judges, and she says, "oh, so they wear wigs, like a 'tranny'?" I was pretty shocked, to be honest. She's never said anything like that before, and she'd never hurt anyone on purpose (I didn't think), but she's never been the most politically correct person, I must say. She blames it a lot on being raised in America but sometimes I do wonder.

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I think the problem with that analogy is that it doesn't fit. A woman who would magically wake up as a man would have two key differences. One, they actually would have lived as a woman before. They would know how it feels to have functioning female organs, to menstruate, and to get pregnant or be at the risk for pregnancy. Additionally, if we are to assume that magic is what made your friend into a man, we could assume that it would give your friend the necessary ability to function exactly like someone born a man would (i.e. being able to impregnate women). If this is so, she'd actually be able to experience what it's like to be both male and female. As current medical technology goes, people aren't capable of such dramatic and exact transformations, so there is not a single person who has ever been able to experience this situation.

Then, you have to assume that what they once were is how they will always see themselves. I used to be shorter. Over time, I grew into a taller person (as is normal for humans), but I don't continue to identify as someone of a shorter height. I also got less erections as a kid before puberty happened. Since I used to be this way, does this mean that I would necessarily identify as someone with a form of erectile dysfunction today? No.

Let's extend the hypothetical even further to build on that point. Instead of turning your friend into an organism of the opposite sex, why not an organism of a different species? Suppose she was turned into a dog. She might want to be human again, but would she not still be a dog as long as she has that body? She'd have a tail, a long nose, pointy ears, and a need to pant instead of sweat. If she were to have all the qualities that cause us to call other such organisms a dog, would she necessarily deny being one at that point? She'd be a dog with the unique ability to understand human experience, but a dog nonetheless, no?

Also, what started it seems kind of underwhelming. I mean, the old wigs that you see on judges today aren't exactly like what men wear today that often. That she sees it as similar to trans people is not all that surprising.

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sorry fisci for what your friend said, i know how awful these things can be coming from someone close.

it's a difficult position to try to have her not be offensive, maybe introduce her to youtube videos or blogs where transmen and transwomen are talking about their experiences of being trans.

i wish you all the best for this and as mentioned by you, you need to consider whether this is a person you want to confide in about your own gender identity

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butterflydreams

She blames it a lot on being raised in America but sometimes I do wonder.

I wouldn't strain yourself wondering ;)

As someone who had (and still has) offensive friends, and as someone who was once at least willing to laugh along with said friends, I guess I can offer my take. I think when someone (especially a friend) says something like that, it's best to assume ignorance and lack of ill intent. I don't know how old you or your friend are, but suffice it to say, I was ignorant as hell in my younger days. My friends were too. We didn't know any trans people, so what the hell did we know? Nobody talked about that stuff. All we had to go on was the burgeoning internet and here-say.

My friend back then was pretty overweight, and as a result, had what is colloquially referred to as "man-boobs". He joked about it a lot. So was it any wonder while shooting a bit for a film we were making, he made the offhand comment that in the future he was going to be, "a tranny with the biggest boobs in the world"?

That was all he knew. It was all we knew. We lucked out. As I said, we didn't know any trans people, so it was unlikely that we directly offended or hurt anyone. No one told us. We just didn't know. Your friend could be the same way, but unlike us, she has you. You can step in and help her out!

Actually, I take that back, we did hurt someone back then. We hurt me. By perpetuating the negative stereotype, and solidifying it in our minds as the only way it existed, I never thought it could be me. That ignorant, offensive sliver was all I knew, and I obviously wasn't that. Right?

I would've LOVED to have a friend like you step in and help me understand back then.

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This, sadly, made me think of a saying I once heard: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Your friend might just be a difficult horse, and I'm afraid that there's really no right way to deal with that.

Either way, I hope things turn out well.

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Ironically -- and I am NOT telling you to do this, only speaking from my own experience here -- telling someone that you yourself are trans/genderqueer can sometimes be the push they need to get over their fears/issues about it. It's easy to have bad attitudes about others when you don't know anyone like that (or think you don't). If your friend has to reconcile their close friendship with you and your gender, they might (and it might take some time) come around to recognizing the problems with their prior views, and come to see the humanity in all trans people.

I once had a close friend TOTALLY not understand trans stuff and react badly. It was a super painful and difficult conversation for me. But once she got over the initial hurt and gave it some thought, she realized how wrong she was and still apologizes about it to this day (even though it was a long time ago). She's even become an advocate for a different trans friend of hers, and would never have been able to understand what that other person was going through had she not talked to me about my experiences that time.

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She blames it a lot on being raised in America but sometimes I do wonder.

I wouldn't strain yourself wondering ;)

As someone who had (and still has) offensive friends, and as someone who was once at least willing to laugh along with said friends, I guess I can offer my take. I think when someone (especially a friend) says something like that, it's best to assume ignorance and lack of ill intent. I don't know how old you or your friend are, but suffice it to say, I was ignorant as hell in my younger days. My friends were too. We didn't know any trans people, so what the hell did we know? Nobody talked about that stuff. All we had to go on was the burgeoning internet and here-say.

My friend back then was pretty overweight, and as a result, had what is colloquially referred to as "man-boobs". He joked about it a lot. So was it any wonder while shooting a bit for a film we were making, he made the offhand comment that in the future he was going to be, "a tranny with the biggest boobs in the world"?

That was all he knew. It was all we knew. We lucked out. As I said, we didn't know any trans people, so it was unlikely that we directly offended or hurt anyone. No one told us. We just didn't know. Your friend could be the same way, but unlike us, she has you. You can step in and help her out!

Actually, I take that back, we did hurt someone back then. We hurt me. By perpetuating the negative stereotype, and solidifying it in our minds as the only way it existed, I never thought it could be me. That ignorant, offensive sliver was all I knew, and I obviously wasn't that. Right?

I would've LOVED to have a friend like you step in and help me understand back then.

Geez, this reminds me of myself as a teen. I internalized a lot of negative attitudes about LGBT people in part I think because I was so very much in denial/self-hate mode about my own gender conflicts. Also the TOTAL lack of acknowledgement that asexual/agender people could exist contributed to it a lot for me. I think if the culture had given me my own space, I wouldn't have felt so afraid of others.

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Part of the problem is that trans is just such an alien concept to most cis people. It's a combination of the inability to understand and cultural conditioning that trains us to assume that our gender is automatically defined by our physical traits. When the human mind encounters something in opposition to what it believes, it rejects it. OP's friend is using this defense mechanism, trying to justify her revulsion toward something she does not know or understand. You also have people who understand the basic idea, and even support trans people, but are not sensitive to their point of view, and may inadvertently make offensive statements or gestures (such as using the wrong pronouns).

When I hear people use offensive language towards trans people, I evaluate their comments to decide whether they are being intentionally transphobic or are merely ignorant of trans issues. Sometimes you have to be aggressive to debunk and educate; at other times all people need is a calm, non-condescending explanation of why they need to adjust their language or behavior.

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Ironically -- and I am NOT telling you to do this, only speaking from my own experience here -- telling someone that you yourself are trans/genderqueer can sometimes be the push they need to get over their fears/issues about it.

I can vouch for that. My aunt used to be the biggest transphobe in North Carolina and now she calls me her favorite nephew. Sometimes the the people we think are the least likely to come around do.

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butterflydreams

Ironically -- and I am NOT telling you to do this, only speaking from my own experience here -- telling someone that you yourself are trans/genderqueer can sometimes be the push they need to get over their fears/issues about it.

I can vouch for that. My aunt used to be the biggest transphobe in North Carolina and now she calls me her favorite nephew. Sometimes the the people we think are the least likely to come around do.
Ok, now that's pretty awesome :)
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Thank you all so much for your replies, it's been really helpful! I'm going to try and talk her round a bit more, but...well, I was going to come out to her anyway, and I only have a couple of months left of school anyway, so even if she rejects me it won't be too bad. I'm hoping it might make her think a bit more about it - fingers crossed!

Again, thank you for all the help!

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