PMelol Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm a 21 year old male who has always been attracted to women. I masturbate regularly. I had my first girlfriend recently, but I never wanted to have sex while she did. I kind of just went through with it just to please her, but the whole time I was just thinking about what was actually happening here. I start thinking about the biology of it (the sperm and the eggs and how basically it's just a program built into us so we make babies) and how animalistic it is and just get very grossed out. But I definitely experience "sexual attraction", it's just that the act of sex itself I find to be pretty nasty. Do you know what I mean? So I like to kiss and hug and cuddle, but the actual intercourse just weirds me out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dash Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 This is one of those issues which is currently under discussion in the asexual community. The definition used in the community used to be solely focused on attraction. Recently there has been a movement also to recognize those who experience sexual attraction, but who have no desire for partnered sex (whether or not they find it gross). Personally I think if one doesn't experience sexual attraction (whether they have and/or enjoy sex) OR one has no desire for partnered sex (whether or not they experience attraction), they are asexual. (AVEN also has dodged the issue by defining sexual attraction as the desire for partnered sex, but that doesn't address all the people like you (and me) who do describe their feelings as "real" sexual attraction even though they don't desire sex, they are grossed out by sex, their attraction points to interactions other than physical sex, etc.) There is currently a thread on AVEN about possibly revising the community definition of asexuality, and feedback from the community is being collected. You're not the only one in this exact spot. Ultimately, what label you choose to use is up to you, and you alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Welcome to AVEN, we hope you like it here! I'm in this spot too (except that I've never 'been in a relationship', lol). I label myself as a 'heteroaesthetic asexual'. See the threads about nonromantic forms of attraction and aesthetic orientations. The notion of autochorissexuality = a(n)egosexuality (clumsy terms, I know) might be also useful to you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a_friend Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm in the same spot as well, but the gay version. To me it would feel like I'm "cheating" if I called myself asexual because TBH there's a huge difference between having sexual attraction towards people and not having it, even if you don't like actual sex. Because, being sexual changes the way you interact with people/ the world, our sexuality manipulates us. As much as I hate to admit it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 No, our libido doesn't totally manipulate us. Yes, experiencing it in presence of other people might feel awkward; but apart from a slight visual change (in bio-males), it doesn't affect our behaviour at all unless we want it to. Coming out to oneself as an ace with a sensual / aesthetic / fetishist libido is already a big step towards controlling the influence of the libido on the behaviour. Even sexuals benefit from becoming more aware of what their arousal actually means (it need not have romantic or whatever implications). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a_friend Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 it doesn't affect our behaviour at all unless we want it to. Although my thread derailment senses are tingling, I would argue that what we want to do and what we actually do are often at odds with each other. I understand why people would want to believe we're our own bioengineers of our own brain chemistry- free will and all that- but I'm skeptical. People also want to believe that people who do bad things 'deserve' the punishment they get, but I tend to just feel sorry that their brain is pure garbage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dash Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 So, people experience sexual attraction itself differently. There are people who experience it "normatively" for lack of a better word and who just don't like the sensations of sex. There are also people whose sexual attraction points them to wanting to do things that aren't sex, but for them it is still sexual attraction. This is how I read the OP's post -- that for him, wanting to kiss and hug and cuddle is sexual attraction, and attraction for him doesn't point in the direction of wanting to have sex. He also finds it awkward and gross. This is different from the people whose attraction does point to wanting sex, but they're stuck because they hate the physical sensations of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) @a_friend ^^: I guess some people can comfortably 'go with the flow', but those who're regularly exposed to a lot of stress, like pilots, surgeons, firemen, you name them, definitely have to be their own bioengineers, otherwise they wouldn't be able to maintain the level of composure and precision needed for their jobs. There are also people whose sexual attraction points them to wanting to do things that aren't sex, but for them it is still sexual attraction. It depends on the definition of sexual attraction; I for one like the common (among AVENites) classification of attractions basing on what actions they encourage (point to). Edited January 12, 2015 by DiamondAce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crinklyace Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 There is currently a thread on AVEN about possibly revising the community definition of asexuality, and feedback from the community is being collected. Which thread is this? (There are so many topics). ;-) Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Iago Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I never enjoyed sex that much and there are certain sex acts that I never performed as they make me feel physically ill (such as cunnilingus and anilingus). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlepersonparadox Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 How I see it is that a sexuality typically describes who you are/are not sexually attracted to. Sexual attraction is arousal + the emotional desire to have sex and those feelings are aimed at the person they are attached to. So if you are not interested/ have no desire in havering partnered sex then it's perfectly fine and plausabe for someone to identify as asexual in more was than one. ultimately it's up to the invididual to decide for themselves what their identity is, everyone else has to respect that identity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tja Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I experience sensual attraction, which always seems to be confused with sexual attraction. While certain things turn me on, I'll never act upon it. Kissing and cuddling, but no sex. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dash Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There is currently a thread on AVEN about possibly revising the community definition of asexuality, and feedback from the community is being collected. Which thread is this? (There are so many topics). ;-) Thanks! The link is here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/104713-defining-asexuality-a-better-definition/ I've written out my thoughts on definitions in more detail in that thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kat_xk8 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 i don't want to have sex as i don't want to have sex i cant have kids sex has no meaning to me - this is not about whether or not sex has meaning to other people as i am not them other peoples reasons to have sex are their reasons not mine sex has no purpose to me - i feel like i have to have sex and i just don't want to but for me its far more than not wanting to its not fear of the unknown either my doctor actually diagnosed me with being asexual and also told me about aven i was born with androgenous insensitivity recepive syndrome i have no reprouductive organs i take hormones via a pill i also have no labido Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OddAudio Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 This was one of my stumbling points when I first (and still) have been considering whether or not I am asexual. (For the time being, I've landed on grey-A, since it seems to be the closest to "hell if I know") I've had crushes in the past, certainly have guys (and the occasional girl) that I look at and think "Damn, they're hot"... however I am a 32 year old virgin with no real desire for sex and, when I think about it--even those "hot" people, I don't want to see them naked or have sex with them. I think penises are weird and gross. It seems a very grey line between physical attraction and sexual attraction (especially since I do seem to get arousal, but again--no desire for (as I've seen here) 'partnered' sex). I think the recent tipping point for me is realizing the awkwardness I feel when things go more sexual (something I am not very experienced in, but I hate being hit on and feel very uncomfortable when things go even beyond hugging.) Yet, I still desire companionship (or not to be lonely?), but have no idea what I'd actually be comfortable doing if I managed to find it. When I saw someone's signature here in AVEN that had the definition of asexual as "Not experiencing sexual attraction AND/OR not desiring partnered sex" was kind of my epiphany moment that I finally felt "maybe this *is* where I fit in". Even though I'm still somewhat confused, it made me feel comfortable enough to join. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francoise Wang Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm a 21 year old male who has always been attracted to women. I masturbate regularly. I had my first girlfriend recently, but I never wanted to have sex while she did. I kind of just went through with it just to please her, but the whole time I was just thinking about what was actually happening here. I start thinking about the biology of it (the sperm and the eggs and how basically it's just a program built into us so we make babies) and how animalistic it is and just get very grossed out. But I definitely experience "sexual attraction", it's just that the act of sex itself I find to be pretty nasty. Do you know what I mean? So I like to kiss and hug and cuddle, but the actual intercourse just weirds me out. Honestly I don't think sexual people would be able to "not wanting to have sex" just because "thinking sex is gross". As far as I know, "wanting to have sex" is an uncontrollable urge for sexual people. Although some sexuals can control themselves not to actually have sex, but they can't control their minds not to craving for it or feeling frustrated when not having it. Anyway, what makes you think that you do feel sexual attraction? Do you find fantasizing having sex with your girlfriend (specifically with her, not with every girl or every person, who the person in your fantasy is would be important) makes you strongly aroused and get horny? Do you find fantasizing having sex with your girlfriend when you masturbate are helpful for you to get the pleasure? (If so, I guess it can be some form of sexual attraction.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Honestly I don't think sexual people would be able to "not wanting to have sex" just because "thinking sex is gross". As far as I know, "wanting to have sex" is an uncontrollable urge for sexual people. Although some sexuals can control themselves not to actually have sex, but they can't control their minds not to craving for it or feeling frustrated when not having it. Exactly. The difference is whether or not it will be a struggle for you to not have sex. An asexual can be easily at peace with staying celibate for an indefinite amount of time; a repulsed sexual will struggle to abstain and has to actively combat their urges, probably hating themselves for their "failings/dirty thoughts" along the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Female genitalia gross me out. I once had the chance to have sex, and decided not to, because of that. But I still like fantasizing about sex where I don't think too much about what exactly those genitalia look like. And I still want to get over that grossed out feeling one day and be able to have sex. I think that makes me sexual, and even if I said "eww that's too gross" and decided to never have sex and only fantasize about it, I'd still be sexual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Exactly. The difference is whether or not it will be a struggle for you to not have sex. An asexual can be easily at peace with staying celibate for an indefinite amount of time; a repulsed sexual will struggle to abstain and has to actively combat their urges, probably hating themselves for their "failings/dirty thoughts" along the way. Yes, and one aspect that wasn't mentioned at all is that sexual activities aren't restricted to penetrative sex. Even sensual stuff, at least for me, has a tendency to please those "sexual urges" a little, and then there are boobies(<3) and handjobs and all the other fun stuff. An asexual wouldn't see a point in any of this, except for the sensual stuff, but for different reasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purplemutant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I regard asexuality as a sexual orientation. Other sexual orientations are defined based on who you are sexually attracted too. So Asexuality should be the same. For someone who experiences sexual attraction but isn’t interested in sex; the term nonsexual might be more appropriate. The tricky part is defining sexual attraction. I dispute the current AVEN definition. I don't think sexual attraction is simply a desire for partnered sex. Sexual attraction is more focused than that. It's a mental/physical response to sexual stimuli. I gather that for most allosexuals it goes something like this. You see someone, your mind responds by thinking "wow that person is hot", your brain releases neurotransmitters, your mind thinks "I want to have sex with them", and your body/brain go though the motions of sexual arousal. All of this happens without your control. It doesn't matter if you would actually want to have sex with them in the real world or not. Your mind is reacting to sexual stimuli. It makes me think of the Marvin Gaye song 'sexual healing'. He says "when I get that feeling I want sexual healing". I look at sexual attraction as the feeling that makes him want sexual healing. I think it's possible to have the feeling without the desire for sex. Regardless we do need to try to come up with a more solid definition of asexuality. We already have enough "you can't be asexual because" going on. A more solid definition could help minimize that. Of course just because may not quite fit whatever definition of asexuality we come up, doesn't mean AVEN isn't a good place for them. Since many (most?) asexuals aren't interested in sex; a nonsexual would right at home on AVEN. *EDIT* Seeing Asexuality presented as an orientation is what got me wondering if I was Asexual. That's the whole reason I came to AVEN. If Asexuality had been presented as simply the lack of interest in sex; I am not sure if I would be on AVEN. Which would be a shame because AVEN has been really helpful in sorting out my sexuality. Edited January 18, 2015 by purplemutant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Other sexual orientations are defined based on who you are sexually attracted too. That's simply not true, at least not as a universal statement. Some people define orientations in these terms, yes. I think it would all be a lot easier if we could go back to the simple term partner preference. (In fact, I'm recently starting to by far prefer that one over "orientation", due to all these discussions on AVEN.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 How many sexual people does one meet with literally no interest in having partnered sex ever, in their entire life? None. Why? Because the innate desire for partnered sex is the defining characteristic of hetero/homo/bi/pansexuality.. It's the one thing all sexual people have in common (regardless of whether or not they experience other forms of attraction) .. so if asexuals innately desire sex as well, we are just the same as sexual people, hence, what's the point in identifying as asexual? Lol, there isn't one, because if we want and love sex, we are perfectly compatible with other sexual people so we may as well just disregard asexuality as a label that anyone will ever take seriously. That's just one of the reasons why sexual attraction is a useless defining factor for sexual orientation. The other,even bigger reason it's useless? No one can agree on, or even identify, what sexual attraction actually is. Ask 100 different people what sexual attraction is, you'll get 100 different answers.So anyway, just saying to those saying "it's all about attraction", it's not and never was only about "attraction"..Anyway, there are plenty of very sex repulsed sexual people. If your repulsion is so strong that it makes you unable to have sex, then you could identify as "gray-(hetero or whatever)sexual" maybe.. in that you just don't have sex due to repulsion of the act but are otherwise fully sexual? (Ie if you weren't repulsed you'd happily have sex, want sex, and love it)Meh honestly, it's AVEN.. pretty much you can identify as anything you want here. So if you *want* to be asexual, then wanting to identify as asexual is about the only factor required (on this site anyway) :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purplemutant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Other sexual orientations are defined based on who you are sexually attracted too. That's simply not true, at least not as a universal statement. Some people define orientations in these terms, yes. I think it would all be a lot easier if we could go back to the simple term partner preference. (In fact, I'm recently starting to by far prefer that one over "orientation", due to all these discussions on AVEN.) I have been under the impression that MOST people use the term that way. The sort of thing you are talking about is a new concept to me that I have only seen on AVEN. I have always seen things presented as who you are attracted too. Heterosexual = attracted to opposite sex, Homosexual = attracted to same sex, Bisexual = attracted to both. Here is what the Merriam Webster dictionary website says for heterosexual. "sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex". Since you are in Germany I wonder if this is all a cultural difference between the US and Germany? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Here is what the Merriam Webster dictionary website says for heterosexual. "sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex". Since you are in Germany I wonder if this is all a cultural difference between the US and Germany? Yes, definitely. The differences between the English Wikipedia page and the German one (and apparently, the Dutch one is far closer to the German than to the English one, too... my Dutch isn't that good, so I can't ultimately confirm it) have been discussed at length before on here. The only orientation that mentions "attraction" in its definition on the German page is asexuality, all others go completely without that concept. I can't recall ever hearing orientations defined by "attraction" before coming to AVEN, that word is pure AVEN-lingo to my ears. And German AVEN (AVEN.de) defines asexuality as "no urge/desire for sexual interaction", too. "No sexual attraction" is very much a minority opinion over there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purplemutant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Anyway, there are plenty of very sex repulsed sexual people. If your repulsion is so strong that it makes you unable to have sex, then you could identify as "gray-(hetero or whatever)sexual" maybe.. in that you just don't have sex due to repulsion of the act but are otherwise fully sexual? (Ie if you weren't repulsed you'd happily have sex, want sex, and love it) Thank you for making my point. Sex repulsed allosexuals are the kind of people I was thinking about. Clearly if someone is repulsed by sex, they don't have a desire for sex. But if they are allosexual they will experience the involuntary reaction to sexual stimuli known as sexual attraction. So thus one can be allosexual without having a desire for sex. As far as "if you weren't repulsed you'd happily have sex, want sex, and love it" goes. That would be like me saying "If I didn't hate fish and sea food I would actually eat it". Which would be true. Does that mean I am simply a fish/sea food repulsed seafoodist? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Clearly if someone is repulsed by sex, they don't have a desire for sex. Nope, not true. Sex repulsed sexuals do have a desire for sex. They suffer from struggling against that desire (a.k.a., remaining abstinent). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purplemutant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Here is what the Merriam Webster dictionary website says for heterosexual. "sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex". Since you are in Germany I wonder if this is all a cultural difference between the US and Germany? Yes, definitely. The differences between the English Wikipedia page and the German one (and apparently, the Dutch one is far closer to the German than to the English one, too... my Dutch isn't that good, so I can't ultimately confirm it) have been discussed at length before on here. The only orientation that mentions "attraction" in its definition on the German page is asexuality, all others go completely without that concept. I can't recall ever hearing orientations defined by "attraction" before coming to AVEN, that word is pure AVEN-lingo to my ears. And German AVEN (AVEN.de) defines asexuality as "no urge/desire for sexual interaction", too. "No sexual attraction" is very much a minority opinion over there. Then perhaps the definition of asexuality should be about attraction and/or desire for sexual interaction. That way the definition would be more globally applicable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purplemutant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Clearly if someone is repulsed by sex, they don't have a desire for sex. Nope, not true. Sex repulsed sexuals do have a desire for sex. They suffer from struggling against that desire (a.k.a., remaining abstinent). I find that a bit confusing. I don't understand how someone can be repulsed by something and still have a desire for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Because the desire isn't conscious and isn't controllable. The desire is your inborn orientation, you cannot influence it. What you can influence is your behavior, i.e. how you choose to deal with the desire. And a repulsed person will most likely choose to abstain. It's really the exact same thing why AVEN - correctly - states that neither celibacy nor sex-repulsion is a neccessary component of asexuality, and that behavior doesn't directly inform orientation. E.g., homosexual men are men who desire sex with other men. That really is all there is to say in the matter, there is no reason to overcomplicate that with talk of attraction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purplemutant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Because the desire isn't conscious and isn't controllable. The desire is your inborn orientation, you cannot influence it. What you can influence is your behavior, i.e. how you choose to deal with the desire. And a repulsed person will most likely choose to abstain. It's really the exact same thing why AVEN - correctly - states that neither celibacy nor sex-repulsion is a neccessary component of asexuality, and that behavior doesn't directly inform orientation. E.g., homosexual men are men who desire sex with other men. That really is all there is to say in the matter, there is no reason to overcomplicate that with talk of attraction. What about people who are interested in experimentation? Would a man qualify as homosexual if he simply wants to try it out to see what it's like? I am guessing men who have sex with men because there aren't any women available; wouldn't qualify as homosexual since they don't desire sex with men. That gets us into the complicated area of artificial human sex partners. Say someone's preferred sex partner is a hologram or cyborg or some other thing from science fiction. Would they qualify as asexual if they have sex with people because holograms and cyborgs don't exist? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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