"neopronouns" or new proposed pronouns

[Tóka]

just out of curiosity, what do you guys think about "neopronouns," if AVEN has even heard of them?

for those of you who do not know what that means, "neopronouns" are new proposed gender-neutral pronouns made to replace singular they.

there are two groups. "normal neopronouns" and noun-self pronouns.

examples of regular neopronouns:

• xe/xir/xirself
• ze/zir/zerself
• ey/em/emself
• ne/ner/nerself
• shi/hir/hirself

examples of nounself pronouns:

• faer/faers/faerself
• bun/buns/bunself
• star/stars/starself
• plant/plants/plantself
• void/voids/voidself

i think they are one of the biggest pieces of transphobic garbage that cisgender "trans activists" have thought up with. obviously the nounself pronouns are ridiculous, but even people who think they're silly still support regular neopronouns.

it is a problem because the people who use neopronouns obviously do not think of anyone who does not speak english. they also are another thing that contributes towards the nonbinary stereotype.

i don't like them, i don't use them, i cannot even say them, and i can't figure out why anyone would want to use them. what is wrong with just going by "they?"

[Guest]

If you don't like nounself pronouns why do you use spook?

Just curious

[MVersluis]

Well... Meoia/es/os is used in a sci fi book series. keeps it nice and simple.

[Random Happenstance]

I support people who want to use them, and if they make people feel more comfortable, why not?

I think it's ignorant to say that cisgender people thought them up, considering that most things I've seen about using them have been by trans people.

I think gender specific pronouns/other words are something we'd do well to eliminate in the (perfectly equal) future, but since we're not at the point of it being possible I like the idea of people working with what they can to make themselves more comfortable.

A problem with they is that "they" is specifically used to refer to people of unspecified gender, generally, therefore it's incorrect to apply it to someone who's gender you know. Not everyone is uncomfortable with that, but that's one complaint. Especially since "they" is encouraged as the default pronoun for anyone you don't know (and I agree with this), either it specifies a non-binary gender (and therefore you misgender unknown people) or it doesn't and people who want to be specified as their gender/don't want to use "they" should have another option. Plus, non-binary people don't all have the same gender.

[MoraDollie]

i think they are one of the biggest pieces of transphobic garbage that cisgender "trans activists" have thought up with. obviously the nounself pronouns are ridiculous, but even people who think they're silly still support regular neopronouns.

it is a problem because the people who use neopronouns obviously do not think of anyone who does not speak english. they also are another thing that contributes towards the nonbinary stereotype.

i don't like them, i don't use them, i cannot even say them, and i can't figure out why anyone would want to use them. what is wrong with just going by "they?"

The English language is constantly changing. Like, everyday. We've had the word "twerk" and I believe "selfie" officially added to the dictonary. Words are changed, forgotten, made, etc... every day. Thanks to the Internet, words can spread like wildfire. Now, I do agree that some "gender" identities scream special snowflake syndrome (I'm sorry, gender is not a state of royalty, get your head out of your egotistical butt).

I wrote an entire college paper about the integration of these not typical pronouns (ve/xe/ze/etc) because it's important for people to feel like they have a word to describe themselves, outside of "she/he". "They" can also be used, both as a singular and plural way to describe yourself (thank Shapespeare for this). Language is what we make of it, so with that being said, some people just don't feel comfortable with using "they" as their pronoun.

[butterflydreams]

Not gonna lie, I find some neopronouns a bit awkward linguistically, but if it makes someone feel better, I'll do my very best to use them. I mean, it's such a simple request.

I like making people feel good. If I can do that by referring to them as ze/zir/zirself, you can consider it done :)

That said, I don't think someone who prefers them should get bent out of shape if the general public doesn't immediately refer to them that way, or is less receptive than I am. This is new stuff people have come up with (hinted at by the whole "neo" prefix ;)), and you know how some people are when it comes to trying to get onboard with new things.

[Ricki]

i cant read any of your posts cause they're in tiny grey letters :(

[Star Inkbright]

i cant read any of your posts cause they're in tiny grey letters :(

Here -

just out of curiosity, what do you guys think about "neopronouns," if AVEN has even heard of them?

for those of you who do not know what that means, "neopronouns" are new proposed gender-neutral pronouns made to replace singular they.

there are two groups. "normal neopronouns" and noun-self pronouns.

examples of regular neopronouns:

• xe/xir/xirself
• ze/zir/zerself
• ey/em/emself
• ne/ner/nerself
• shi/hir/hirself

examples of nounself pronouns:

• faer/faers/faerself
• bun/buns/bunself
• star/stars/starself
• plant/plants/plantself
• void/voids/voidself

i think they are one of the biggest pieces of transphobic garbage that cisgender "trans activists" have thought up with. obviously the nounself pronouns are ridiculous, but even people who think they're silly still support regular neopronouns.

it is a problem because the people who use neopronouns obviously do not think of anyone who does not speak english. they also are another thing that contributes towards the nonbinary stereotype.

i don't like them, i don't use them, i cannot even say them, and i can't figure out why anyone would want to use them. what is wrong with just going by "they?"

That's the OP. :)

[Random Happenstance]

i think they are one of the biggest pieces of transphobic garbage that cisgender "trans activists" have thought up with. obviously the nounself pronouns are ridiculous, but even people who think they're silly still support regular neopronouns.

it is a problem because the people who use neopronouns obviously do not think of anyone who does not speak english. they also are another thing that contributes towards the nonbinary stereotype.

i don't like them, i don't use them, i cannot even say them, and i can't figure out why anyone would want to use them. what is wrong with just going by "they?"

The English language is constantly changing. Like, everyday. We've had the word "twerk" and I believe "selfie" officially added to the dictonary. Words are changed, forgotten, made, etc... every day. Thanks to the Internet, words can spread like wildfire. Now, I do agree that some "gender" identities scream special snowflake syndrome (I'm sorry, gender is not a state of royalty, get your head out of your egotistical butt).

I wrote an entire college paper about the integration of these not typical pronouns (ve/xe/ze/etc) because it's important for people to feel like they have a word to describe themselves, outside of "she/he". "They" can also be used, both as a singular and plural way to describe yourself (thank Shapespeare for this). Language is what we make of it, so with that being said, some people just don't feel comfortable with using "they" as their pronoun.

Meh, I've got the impression that some people using certain nounself pronouns do so mostly in spaces where they feel they can safely, and at least partly as a way of feeling more positive about their gender, which they struggle with otherwise. Not always the case, but mostly it seems to just make people feel a bit better and lets them have a bit of fun with it. A bit of a "there's no language to meet this purpose, may as well have fun with it", I can see the appeal and am all for anyone doing things that make them more comfortable. Never struck me as egotistical anyhow. It'd be cool to have someone who does use nounself pronouns give their perspective of why here.

I think I've mentioned this in another topic actually...

[Copper]

This is the first time I've heard of them. I think I would have to have someone who actually prefers these pronouns explain to me their reasons for it before I can form an opinion about it.

[Scottthespy]

I like the idea of a better gender neutral pronouns for English than 'they', because its not technically a singular word. Its meant for groups, and cannot be used in formal writing to describe a single person. The sentence "I like this writer, they are funny." is not technically correct. "I like this writer, he or she is funny." Is correct if you don't know the gender. But 'he or she' is not particularly good when you aren't either. Many languages do have gender neutral pronouns that are useable in proper writing, but not English. Also, if you're trying to write a longer sentence with a gender neutral character, or a character who's gender you don't want revealed yet, being restricted to 'they' can get really repetitive and awkward.

"The figure slid down the alley, looking behind themselves to see if they were being followed. Seeing that they were not, they continued on their way, pausing to check their watch to see if they were late."

It gets ambiguous and awkward the longer you try to avoid referring to a specific gender, and you wind up saying things like 'the black clad person' and 'the brown eyes flashed, and that hard to place voice spoke' to speak about the character, when you could say 'she spoke' or 'he spoke' in any other case.

I'm not fond of any of the ones in the OP's lists, but I don't have any better suggestions.

[Copper]

That's a good point. I use "they" pretty often on AVEN unless its clear which pronoun is appropriate. But a singular gender neutral pronoun definitely has its uses. But I don't see why there are so many on the OP's list, or what their individual purposes are, rather than to just create one gender neutral pronoun.

[Tóka]

if you really want a pronoun that isn't "they," can someone at least try to come up with something that doesn't sound like it's trying to be edgy? "xe" does not go along with he and she.

[Scottthespy]

The OP was just listing a bunch of the ones other people used...and I to agree, spook. I don't like the ones on the list because they sound like either an attempt at mixing 'he and her' or just using a different first letter, or like some magic garbledegook from a fantasy book. Just a nice, neutral word. We got Him and Her and...why not..Hol? She, He...ke? I dunno. I figure I'm agender, but I just go with the pronouns that match my physical body. I'm not great at coming up with new words.

Also, at Kisa the cat, I think its like...'spooky'? Spook is a word that can be used in place of 'ghost' sometimes. "The house is haunted by a fearsome spook!" Dunno, but that's how I read the name. "The supreme spook deluxe" = "The best ghost ever".

[Heart]

I think Kisa was referring to the "preferred pronouns" field under Spook's avatar, rather than spook's name. Spook has filled it out as "spook/spooks/spookself", implying that spook would like to be referred to like that. So instead of "he/she would like to refer to himself/herself as he/she", I would say "spook would like to refer to spookself as spook".

[Certified Cake Decorator]

I like the Em pronouns, but i feel like they kinda sound a little red-neck? Does that make sense? Not trying to offend anyone that uses them, i just dont like the sound. But i like the way the Em pronoun reads.

Weird, it's all weird. I just use They, even though it isnt perfect.

[Tóka]

I think Kisa was referring to the "preferred pronouns" field under Spook's avatar, rather than spook's name. Spook has filled it out as "spook/spooks/spookself", implying that spook would like to be referred to like that. So instead of "he/she would like to refer to himself/herself as he/she", I would say "spook would like to refer to spookself as spook".

i cant believe someone took that seriously

[butterflydreams]

I think Kisa was referring to the "preferred pronouns" field under Spook's avatar, rather than spook's name. Spook has filled it out as "spook/spooks/spookself", implying that spook would like to be referred to like that. So instead of "he/she would like to refer to himself/herself as he/she", I would say "spook would like to refer to spookself as spook".

i cant believe someone took that seriously

We have to take what people say here seriously unless they explicitly say they're joking. I can't just look at someone's preferred pronouns and say "ze/zir/zerself? pfft, that's stupid hahaha!" No matter how "silly" they may appear, they might be really important to the person. I will always respect that.

Frankly, if you were indeed making a joke out of it, I feel that's pretty insulting to people who have put serious thought into how they would like to be referenced.

[Tóka]

I think Kisa was referring to the "preferred pronouns" field under Spook's avatar, rather than spook's name. Spook has filled it out as "spook/spooks/spookself", implying that spook would like to be referred to like that. So instead of "he/she would like to refer to himself/herself as he/she", I would say "spook would like to refer to spookself as spook".

i cant believe someone took that seriously

We have to take what people say here seriously unless they explicitly say they're joking. I can't just look at someone's preferred pronouns and say "ze/zir/zerself? pfft, that's stupid hahaha!" No matter how "silly" they may appear, they might be really important to the person. I will always respect that.

Frankly, if you were indeed making a joke out of it, I feel that's pretty insulting to people who have put serious thought into how they would like to be referenced.

it's far more insulting to transgender people to think that referring to yourself with something stupid is acceptable.

[Sage Raven Domino]

Referring to oneself by an own name instead of a pronoun is not stupid and is totally acceptable (it doesn't violate anyone's rights). That's why people didn't recognise 'spookself' as a jocular pronoun.

[butterflydreams]

it's far more insulting to transgender people to think that referring to yourself with something stupid is acceptable.

You're the one saying they are "stupid". For someone using them, they might be extremely important, and I'm sorry, but neither you nor I get to tell them otherwise.

I mean, what if I were to say, "oh, he's a trans man and he wants me to call him 'he'? That's stupid, she's just a woman wearing men's clothes." I can't think of a more horribly offensive thing to say.

[JAKQ7111]

I think Kisa was referring to the "preferred pronouns" field under Spook's avatar, rather than spook's name. Spook has filled it out as "spook/spooks/spookself", implying that spook would like to be referred to like that. So instead of "he/she would like to refer to himself/herself as he/she", I would say "spook would like to refer to spookself as spook".

i cant believe someone took that seriously

We have to take what people say here seriously unless they explicitly say they're joking. I can't just look at someone's preferred pronouns and say "ze/zir/zerself? pfft, that's stupid hahaha!" No matter how "silly" they may appear, they might be really important to the person. I will always respect that.

Frankly, if you were indeed making a joke out of it, I feel that's pretty insulting to people who have put serious thought into how they would like to be referenced.

it's far more insulting to transgender people to think that referring to yourself with something stupid is acceptable.

Are you the almighty authority on all things transgender, with the remarkable ability to speak for transgender people as a monolithic entity? No? Okay. I'll tell you this: I am transgender, specifically of the non-binary or trans-feminine variety, and I believe people should be able to use whatever pronouns they want for themselves, especially if they do not feel the binary 'he/she' fit them. While I personally use 'they' pronouns for myself, I know many other non-binary or otherwise trans-spectrum-identified people who use pronouns ranging from "they" to "ze" to "fey" to binary "he" or "she", and you know what? That's their decision to make, and not yours, mine, or anyone else's. People's pronouns are a very personal thing, and I"m sure that one of the last things any trans-spectrum person needs is their personal identity, that they have worked hard to discover and accept, invalidated and shut down by not only the cis-normative majority, but by identity-policing folks who claim that their identity is 'insulting to transgender people'.

[Tóka]

it's far more insulting to transgender people to think that referring to yourself with something stupid is acceptable.

You're the one saying they are "stupid". For someone using them, they might be extremely important, and I'm sorry, but neither you nor I get to tell them otherwise.

I mean, what if I were to say, "oh, he's a trans man and he wants me to call him 'he'? That's stupid, she's just a woman wearing men's clothes." I can't think of a more horribly offensive thing to say.

...he pronouns are actual pronouns. they have been used forever. made up unpronounceable or illogical stuff is not.

[drjohnhwatson]

I think Kisa was referring to the "preferred pronouns" field under Spook's avatar, rather than spook's name. Spook has filled it out as "spook/spooks/spookself", implying that spook would like to be referred to like that. So instead of "he/she would like to refer to himself/herself as he/she", I would say "spook would like to refer to spookself as spook".

i cant believe someone took that seriously

I didn't even notice that below your name. :lol:. You must give the person who saw it credit; they might very well go on Tumblr a lot and see that sort of thing on a day-to-day basis by people who are willing to DOX and send death threats if you don't give in to their demands, haha. (I say "haha", but, well, you know how Tumblr is and how that stuff happens a lot).

As it stands, I don't mind what people want people to call them, generally, but when you want to be called fae or dae or you say you are actually a giant planet but in human form, I mean, honestly...

[MoraDollie]

if you really want a pronoun that isn't "they," can someone at least try to come up with something that doesn't sound like it's trying to be edgy? "xe" does not go along with he and she.

"She" and "he" once weren't in existence either, sorry to break that to you. You're going about this honestly in a very immature way. All words were once brand new to the English vocabulary and might have taken time for them to be integrated into society. It's a matter of personal comfort. You have a lot of ways to describe a person who feels same sex attraction (gay, f-bomb, butterfly, unicorn, *enter more words here*). You have multiple ways to describe certain textures and tastes, and other things we perceive with our senses. We have words with many synonymous (like happy or sad for example).

Yes, xe/ve/zi/etc are relatively "new" to the English language, but so is many, many terms under the transgender umbrella (polygender, genderfluid, two-spirit, etc). The English language is constantly changing (as stated before) and human sexuality/gender is INCREDIBLY complex, hence why a lot of these terms seem to be "made up as we go along", because being the pack animals we are by nature, we're constantly trying to find ways we can connect with other human beings (pack instinct, look at all of us on AVEN for christ's sake), so we try to find words to best describe ourselves and our situation/circumstances.

[R_1]

I kind of like this variation of the Spivak pronoun - E, eir, eirs, eirself, emself as it's actually sounds very natural.

[House of Chimeras]

We have an odd relationship with “they/them/their” pronouns. Due to being a multiple system but being trans-non-binary and having non-binary alters sentences can get confusing as heck fast if they ends up being used in both singular and plural uses. So we started using the ze/zir/zirs years ago for a non-binary usage for people we‘re out to as multiple.

[Tóka]

I kind of like this variation of the Spivak pronoun - E, eir, eirs, eirself, emself as it's actually sounds very natural.

natural unless english isn't your first language because i have trouble with e sounds :l

We have an odd relationship with “they/them/their” pronouns. Due to being a multiple system but being trans-non-binary and having non-binary alters sentences can get confusing as heck fast if they ends up being used in both singular and plural uses. So we started using the ze/zir/zirs years ago for a non-binary usage for people we‘re out to as multiple.

uhhhh

i dont believe that "multiple systems" are a real thing

it's still no excuse to have a pronoun that looks like it came out of a cheesy old sci fi story. it seems people are incapable of thinking up new pronouns that don't try too hard.

they introduced a great one in Sweden that actually fits - too bad a lot of swedes are now doing the american thing by using them just to be cool :l

[Star Inkbright]

I kind of like this variation of the Spivak pronoun - E, eir, eirs, eirself, emself as it's actually sounds very natural.

natural unless english isn't your first language because i have trouble with e sounds :l

We have an odd relationship with “they/them/their” pronouns. Due to being a multiple system but being trans-non-binary and having non-binary alters sentences can get confusing as heck fast if they ends up being used in both singular and plural uses. So we started using the ze/zir/zirs years ago for a non-binary usage for people we‘re out to as multiple.

uhhhh

i dont believe that "multiple systems" are a real thing

it's still no excuse to have a pronoun that looks like it came out of a cheesy old sci fi story. it seems people are incapable of thinking up new pronouns that don't try too hard.

they introduced a great one in Sweden that actually fits - too bad a lot of swedes are now doing the american thing by using them just to be cool :l

How would you feel if someone told you they didn't believe 'agender' was a real thing?

[House of Chimeras]

We have an odd relationship with “they/them/their” pronouns. Due to being a multiple system but being trans-non-binary and having non-binary alters sentences can get confusing as heck fast if they ends up being used in both singular and plural uses. So we started using the ze/zir/zirs years ago for a non-binary usage for people we‘re out to as multiple.

uhhhh

i dont believe that "multiple systems" are a real thing

it's still no excuse to have a pronoun that looks like it came out of a cheesy old sci fi story. it seems people are incapable of thinking up new pronouns that don't try too hard.

they introduced a great one in Sweden that actually fits - too bad a lot of swedes are now doing the american thing by using them just to be cool :l

You don't believe that disorders like Dissociative Identity Disorder (once called Multiple Personality Disorder) and Other Specified Dissociative Disorder (once called Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified) don't exist? Fine then, don't. You are not our therapist, and your opinion on psychological conditions don't make them disappear from the books.