How can I get my friend to believe I'm "really" asexual?

[Vivaldi Ives]

Grr...I'm pretty upset right now. I was chatting with a friend of mine about how I was trying out a dating website, but having a hard time finding anyone who looked appealing. (My reasoning being, I might feel differently about these people in real life, where I could see them in motion, talk to them, touch them, etc. but I have a hard time judging a person based solely on a picture and a paragraph or two of description.) This somehow turned into a long conversation where he was constantly implying that I'm not really asexual (or that I can't know if I'm asexual) for a host of reasons. I am kind of mad at him right now because he does not seem to believe that yes, I am asexual and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon.

This friend is one of the very few people I have come out to. He seemed accepting at first (saying he was glad I trusted him enough to come out to him), and I sent him the (A)Sexual documentary and I think he enjoyed it and learned from it. (He had not previously heard of asexuality.)

But in every conversation relating to sexual orientation/relationships we've had since then, he keeps prodding me with these ideas that something's not quite right about me, that I can't know if I like sex til I try it, that because I had a religious upbringing it must have convinced me that sex is a Bad Thing...and I don't know what to tell him that will get him to believe that yes, I KNOW I am asexual.

Today I tried the arguments of "behavior does not equal orientation" and "Does a straight person have to have sex with a same-sex partner to know they're not gay? No? Then why should I have to try sex to know I'm asexual?" (He thought those were witty, but I'm not sure they helped my argument.)

Then he said that I'm limiting myself if I only date asexuals, but I never said that I only want to date asexuals (I care about personality more than anything--orientation is not a primary factor in who I would date)...I said that I can't see myself "compromising" with a sexual partner, then he says "all relationships involves compromise"...He said a lot about how conservative Christians think sex is bad, and that's why I don't want to do it (since I grew up going to conservative/evangelical-type churches), but I tried to explain that that has nothing to do with my asexuality--growing up, I fully expected I'd fall in love, get married, and have sex (and enjoy it to at least some extent). It wasn't til I was 19 that I realized that I didn't have the same excitement about sex that most people did, and that I had never been attracted to someone in a sexual manner. I told my friend I might be willing to try sex with the right person, but I didn't expect it to "turn me sexual." But I'm still not sure he gets it.

So, my question is: What can I do in this sort of situation? This guy has been an awesome friend regarding all other areas of my life. I still want to be friends with him. But it's frustrating (and frankly rather insulting) that he doesn't believe I'm really asexual (and maybe, he thinks that no one is really asexual? I can't tell if he thinks that, or thinks that it's just me who's confused). Are there any other good arguments or examples I could use that he might understand better?

[Lydian]

Honestly, I think it's disappointing but there comes a time when they're not worth your time. I'm not saying to ditch it as a friend but if he's going to keep trying to convince you you're not asexual, I suggest just telling him that you know yourself better than he does and have him stop bringing it up. He's probably trying to help, but this stuff tends to happen when sexual people think you're missing out on what they think is the best thing ever. Maybe let him know how much it's upsetting you that he keeps trying to convince you otherwise, but honestly your sex life or lack thereof isn't his job to "fix" and you'd probably do better telling him to step off if you can't convince him.

[Philip027]

He seems to think it's a religious thing or something?

All I can say is, I'm definitely not religious (spiritual? maybe. religious? no). It's got nothing to do with why I'm asexual with a few mild antisexual tendencies. Automatically assuming it's something due to religion is a mistake.

[Vivaldi Ives]

Honestly, I think it's disappointing but there comes a time when they're not worth your time. I'm not saying to ditch it as a friend but if he's going to keep trying to convince you you're not asexual, I suggest just telling him that you know yourself better than he does and have him stop bringing it up. He's probably trying to help, but this stuff tends to happen when sexual people think you're missing out on what they think is the best thing ever. Maybe let him know how much it's upsetting you that he keeps trying to convince you otherwise, but honestly your sex life or lack thereof isn't his job to "fix" and you'd probably do better telling him to step off if you can't convince him.

I kind of agree with you. By no means do I want to cut him out of my life completely, but I may have to stop talking about this kind of thing with him. Really, I'm the one who keeps bringing it up--even accidentally (like, he'll ask how I'm doing and I'll say "I'm really lonely and bored, so I'm looking at a dating site" and that's what set off tonight's conversation somehow). In the future, I'll try to get him to understand that his trying to "diagnose" me isn't helping.

The last thing he's said to me so far was along the lines of "I just want the best for you and I'm afraid you won't be happy," and I get it, it's a sign of a good friend that he wants me to be happy, but he really does not need to be worrying about my sex life or lack thereof.

And the funny thing is, I've thought that I might potentially date this guy if circumstances were different (the most glaring obstacle being that he's married) but given his views on asexuality, it's probably a very good thing we can't date. :P

[Lucinda]

Why is it important that he believe you?

Talking about sex, even if it is about not wanting sex, could be a turn on for him.

During the conversations, you went from not wanting to compromise to maybe having sex with the right person. So more conversations may lead to ... ???

Pick a different topic, why don't you?

Lucinda

[teacake22]

I'm sorry that you're in that sort of situation... Adding to what Ambris was saying regarding telling him how it's upsetting you, you could then ask him to respect how you identify yourself and trust you that you know that part of who you are.

[Vivaldi Ives]

He seems to think it's a religious thing or something?

All I can say is, I'm definitely not religious (spiritual? maybe. religious? no). It's got nothing to do with why I'm asexual with a few mild antisexual tendencies. Automatically assuming it's something due to religion is a mistake.

I am still rather confused as to what his main point of contention is, but from what I've gathered the three main things are:

1. Humans are basically animals, we instinctively want/need to have sex, so the fact I don't feel any desire for sex confuses him

2. Conservative Christians think that all sex outside of marriage is a Bad Thing and somehow that caused my lack of sexual interest. (Though, as I pointed out to him, it seems that plenty of young celibate Christians are all gung-ho about getting married so they can finally have sex--therefore, a religious environment does not necessarily cause lack of interest in sex. Not by a long shot.)

3. I've never had a boyfriend (or girlfriend for that matter) so (according to him) since I've never "fooled around with boys," I can't know for sure if I like kissing, sex, etc. He's kind of right--I have no idea if I like kissing or not, having never tried it--but I really don't ever see myself inherently wanting to have sex with someone. In fact, I think if I did "fool around" there's the possibility I would have realized sooner that I wasn't into sexual stuff, if that makes any sense?

Ugh. I just wish we could see eye on eye on this.

[Vivaldi Ives]

Why is it important that he believe you?

Talking about sex, even if it is about not wanting sex, could be a turn on for him.

During the conversations, you went from not wanting to compromise to maybe having sex with the right person. So more conversations may lead to ... ???

Pick a different topic, why don't you?

Lucinda

OMG, that could possibly be true. But I hope it's not, that sounds so gross--I don't want to be a "turn on" for anyone. But yeah, I'll do my best to keep to different topics in the future when possible.

[Trochera]

I think it may be a good thing to just agree to disagree with him on this topic. There are some sexual people who just can't seem to fathom that there are some people who just don't have an interest.

[Karret]

I've had a discussion with someone who had similar notions, at least about "if you haven't tried it, you don't know," and I've mentioned things I haven't tried and that scare me, but I have a lot of excitement when I think about having/participating in it, like driving or having a job up to impossible dreams like being in a famous/well known/respected band, a successful writer/artist of some kind, but when I think of sex, it just.... ultimately grosses me out. I don't know if it did much good, but that's how best I could find to relate to it.

Fortunately for me, they weren't a close friend, and my friends don't bother me about it, so I don't know how to deal with a friend you wanna keep who keeps spouting off ignorant bullshit. D:/

I have a bit of a temper on me, so if anything, I'd unhelpfully get snippy with them if they wouldn't stop. n.n;;

[Exanimis]

Say that you don't like cocaine and peyote even if you didn't try it.

If he looks surprised by your comparison, like comparing hard, extremely harmful drugs with sex say that you see no difference and the point is that you don't need to do things you don't want, neither are obliged to do to prove a point to someone who is just acting ignorant.

Yes it gets to me too, so what? Sue me. -_-

[Philip027]

since I've never "fooled around with boys," I can't know for sure if I like kissing, sex, etc.

I don't have to eat shit out of the toilet to know that it's not something I'd enjoy.

[Lydian]

He seems to think it's a religious thing or something?

All I can say is, I'm definitely not religious (spiritual? maybe. religious? no). It's got nothing to do with why I'm asexual with a few mild antisexual tendencies. Automatically assuming it's something due to religion is a mistake.

I am still rather confused as to what his main point of contention is, but from what I've gathered the three main things are:

1. Humans are basically animals, we instinctively want/need to have sex, so the fact I don't feel any desire for sex confuses him

2. Conservative Christians think that all sex outside of marriage is a Bad Thing and somehow that caused my lack of sexual interest. (Though, as I pointed out to him, it seems that plenty of young celibate Christians are all gung-ho about getting married so they can finally have sex--therefore, a religious environment does not necessarily cause lack of interest in sex. Not by a long shot.)

3. I've never had a boyfriend (or girlfriend for that matter) so (according to him) since I've never "fooled around with boys," I can't know for sure if I like kissing, sex, etc. He's kind of right--I have no idea if I like kissing or not, having never tried it--but I really don't ever see myself inherently wanting to have sex with someone. In fact, I think if I did "fool around" there's the possibility I would have realized sooner that I wasn't into sexual stuff, if that makes any sense?

Ugh. I just wish we could see eye on eye on this.

What's annoying is whether or not we'd physically enjoy it isn't even the point. Some asexuals DO get pleasure out of it but they're STILL ASEXUAL! They're just not repulsed and hey, being asexual doesn't mean you're physically incapable of enjoying it. However if you DON'T want to or feel uncomfortable/disgusted with the idea, trying it is more likely to leave you feeling kind of disgusted with yourself and it's not really something to force yourself into. If you don't want to just....don't. My mom gives me the same speech about how I'm closing doors for myself and it'll be so hard to find someone and I'm missing out but it's like "Ok that's grand but this is how I am and the doors I'm closing aren't doors I want to go through or doors that would make me happy. I'm different and that's ok." I HAD a partner I agreed to compromise with in the future and it stressed me out until we broke up and even though he was great, I'm a lot happier since. What does THAT tell you? And liking kissing and shit is irrelevant even more-so because some asexual people like it and some don't. It's an intimacy thing.

Only when you're asexual do people feel the need to tell you you have to TRY sex to know if you're ATTRACTED to people. Honestly, I get some people enjoy a thing and are like "oh man you're missing out" but the thing is this isn't something you can force people to try, and it's not the same as trying something like a new food or trying camping. If you wouldn't tell a gay person to have straight sex or a straight person to have gay sex JUST IN CASE, why would you do it to an asexual? If people want to experiment then that's their choice but not something anyone should have to do and it's more likely to just leave you feeling really shitty if it's not something you want for yourself. : /

[RD_the]

Unfortunately there is no way to *make* someone believe you. They are going to believe what they believe no matter what you do, they are the only ones who can change their beliefs.

So I would recommend you try a different tactic. Instead of trying to convince him that asexuality exists and that you are asexual, try this:

"Look. I identify as asexual. That is what I feel I am, I do not view it as a problem, and being able to openly express this side of myself gives me strength. It is not up to you or anyone else to decide whether or not my truth is accurate. You do not have the right to question who I say that I am. I have trusted you enough to share this part of myself with you, and by saying these things you are being disrespectful, hurtful, and damaging my trust in you as a friend. You don't have to believe me, although your lack of belief in my knowledge of myself and my agency to be my own individual hurts me, but you *will* respect my choice to identify as asexual, and you *will* respect my life choices. I ask that you refrain from these disrespectful comments and questions in the future."

[deleted_account]

Don't have sex with him.

Sorry to be rude, but it seems like he's just trying to get into your pants. I don't see any other reason why a married man would focus so much on a platonic friend's sexual desires or lack thereof. He sounds like a dirtbag.

[sp4c34c3]

I agree with what a lot of people are saying. I am kind of experiencing this with a friend right now, and it is funny because what everyone is suggesting is along the lines of what I was thinking is going to happen to me (and it is weird how I came to this thread and read other people's predictions about your identical situation that I am in). oh no!

which one of us will it happen to first? Hopefully neither!

[Vivaldi Ives]

Don't have sex with him.

Sorry to be rude, but it seems like he's just trying to get into your pants. I don't see any other reason why a married man would focus so much on a platonic friend's sexual desires or lack thereof. He sounds like a dirtbag.

I'm sorry if this comes across as being rude back, but you don't know anything about my relationship with this guy besides what I've written in this thread. He's one of my few friends right now, and he's been incredibly supportive regarding my recent move, starting a new job, dealing with anxiety and work stress, etc. I've known him for four years and this argument between us has only come up recently (I came out to him as asexual about 3 months ago). Still...it was only after I came out to him that he told me he's really attracted to me (which I am okay with, but kind of wish I didn't know, because it makes our relationship more difficult). But anyway...he's been nothing but sweet and kind to me for most of the time I've known him, and I'm not planning to cut the relationship short because of this one argument, unless things get substantially worse.

As it currently stands, he's married, there's no way he could even talk me into having sex with him (because I just don't want it with anyone); and much as I want to try kissing someone, I don't think I could do it with him (he's a great friend but I just cannot have that kind of desire toward him)--not to mention that I do not want to feel like "the other woman" in his marriage. And right now we live about 300 miles apart, so it's not like we'd even have the opportunity to do anything like that in the foreseeable future (our conversations lately have been via internet chat, and I don't think he'd say the same things to me in person). Also, from some things he's said, I think part of his concern is that he wants me to be happy and therefore (in his mind) I should be open to finding a boyfriend even if I have to "compromise" sexually (I think that's a stupid idea, but he seems to be saying it out of genuine concern).

So, for now...I've tried to tell him that he needs to accept who I am as an asexual person, and that the conversation is stressing me out so we need to drop it for a while. Sometimes it seems like we talk to each other way too much, so I'm also going to try not to contact him for a few days unless he says something to me first...I love him dearly, but I just need a break.

[Vivaldi Ives]

So...this is how the situation currently stands, in case anyone's interested.

I sent my friend an email a while ago saying that some of the things he's said regarding my orientation were hurtful, and that we should probably just stop talking about asexuality altogether and move on to other things. We took a few days' break from chatting but started up again because we're so used to talking every day. He finally sent me a lengthy email response yesterday, basically saying that he believes that I believe I'm asexual, but still finds asexuality hard to comprehend because he believes it's biologically impossible to not want sex, something like that <_<. But he said he will stop trying to psychoanalyze me and trying to find "reasons" that I'm asexual, now that he realizes how stressful and unhelpful that is for me. I wrote back, telling him that I completely understand if he doesn't "get" asexuality--it's a minority orientation, and it's always going to be hard for a majority to understand the experiences of a minority. I agreed with him that nobody knows of a specific cause for asexuality, there's always going to be nature vs. nurture debates, etc. and I am fine with him not quite understanding the whole asexuality thing as long as he respects it. I also reassured him that I do not feel that I am missing out on something by not having sex, and that I am open to changing my mind in the future if I do happen to "find the right person" (unlikely as that may be).

So...after many awkward and frustrating conversations, I think all is well...for now. It's an area where we'll have to agree to disagree, but compromise is a part of any relationship. Hopefully now we can move on to better conversational topics!

[Vivaldi Ives]

An update, in case anyone still cares...I finally "broke up" with this friend a few months ago. I had tried to stop talking to him several times before, but I kept going back even though the things he said had hurt me so much--it's like I was addicted to getting attention from him. But now I have no intention of ever talking to him again. I finally saw the light and realized he wasn't worth my time, for the reasons described in this thread as well as a host of others. Also, some of you were right, he was attracted to me--I knew he was, though I kept brushing it aside and believed he had better intentions, so that's why I got defensive here and I apologize for that--but it finally hit me, it really seems like he'd cheat on his wife with me if I'd let him, and I don't want to be friends with cheaters or ever do anything that would make me feel like "the other woman" in someone's relationship.

The one tough thing has been that this ex-friend had been nothing but kind and supportive to me until the point when I came out to him. He's friendly and artistic and empathetic and part of me still wants to like him, but I just can't get past the stuff he said to me. I don't need to keep someone in my life who questions my sexual orientation, devalues my morals and life experiences, and basically tells me that a man needs to "fix" me. (At one point I sent him the Wikipedia article on corrective rape to try to show why the things he was saying weren't okay, and he got super offended.) I feel taken advantage of now--it was probably boosting his ego that a younger woman (me) wanted to talk to him so much, and it feels so gross to think back on that now. And one of the worst parts is that I don't think he ever really took ownership or apologized for most of what he said.

So thanks, everyone, for your advice. I wish I had gotten out of this friendship earlier, but for quite a while I felt like he was one of the few people who cared about me. Now I know better--I have plenty of friends, both online and IRL, who treat me well and accept me the way I am. And I'm in a much better place mentally and emotionally now, where I don't need as much external validation.

And I just want to thank Philip027 for this sentence. I hope I never forget it:

I don't have to eat shit out of the toilet to know that it's not something I'd enjoy.

[Philip027]

Not really the classiest statement of mine to quote, but I'm glad it helped!

[Autumn Season]

Oh gosh, sorry this all happened, Vivaldi. Somehow the whole time I kept hoping, he really was best friend-material. But now I'm glad you got rid of him.

About people who don't comprehend asexuality and try to "help" me: My new method is to give them time until they accept I'm not changing my mind. Then they start treating me more respectfully. Of course this takes confidence. Sometimes it is difficult not to get defensive and insecure when the people who are close to me invalidate my identity. The trick is not to listen to them. There's only so much negativity a person can take.

[binary suns]

aw *hugs* viv :(

I'm sorry it turned out he was a jerk xD I had a friend.. well we had a fight and they didn't have this one quality that I find essential in friends that it felt to me like they realyl didn't care about me dispite the fact they said they did :( I also kinda suspect the person maybe was interested in me, and when I came out as asexual they started to look for a way out and slowly was more mean but that is more like due to my anxiety-induced paranoia lol xD

I think, I think that even though it turned out sour at the end of it, that he sounded like he was a great supportive friend for a long time. so that was a good thing :)

friendships do end unfortunately, and sometimes things that worked stop, or life changes, or people change. just because something ended bad doesn't mean the whole experience was bad. and, we being humans, well we grow and learn and stuff so bad endings (as long as they're endings of course) aren't really "bad" because once it's the past it's just part of the structure that makes us strong :)

[Mermaidy]

I just want to mention (since I also was raised religious with the no premarital sex) that I've experienced the same comment as you in that the religious upbringing was the cause of the feelings towards sex or watever. I've found that not only not even bothering to come out to people has helped with that, but also literally just ignoring people's "opinions" about it especially if I have no intent to get close to them. if someone brings up the religious sex thing I just say k and move on because ultimately it doesn't matter wat they believe or if I'm "truly" asexual. For you it might be different since it seem like you definitely come out to people more than me, but just in case you ever meet someone else who says this kind of thing again, you don't have to defend yourself to them or try to convince them, even if it might be frustrating to let them think they are right. people shouldn't stress you out for useless reasons. i'm glad you have true friends now:)