WarSong Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I have a friend who is trans. Love her to bits. We're gonna go see a movie together but I KNOW the 'issue' is going to come up in conversation. Because it always does. She's not 'sold' on 'the asexuality thing'. My face makes contact with the closest surface every friggin time - or my palm if no surface with enough open space avails itself. I'm asexual. I'm aromantic. Just how the dice got rolled. One time she noticed my body got aroused (caused by some accidental stimulation) and that gets brought up every time too. Like if I'm really an ace it should be dead or something. Frustrating. So I'm asking mostly to get past how this makes me feel. BUT! Is there an argument I can use that might get her to stop bringing it up?'ve already asked. Problem is: She's real smart. Like her ancient laptop runs better than my brand friggin new one. Any way I slice the conversation she just dances circles around me. I know some of it is she just loves teasing me. But I'd like to spend one outing without it being brought up. How can I accomplish this? Link to post Share on other sites
knout Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Women have periods, that shouldn't make you assume they want babies. Men have erections, that shouldn't make you assume they want to have sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest_49836 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Her opinion about doesn't matter in this case. It is an opinion, nothing more.Don't let it bother you, that stress is real, that stress matters. Besides, you're not interested in her so it's none of her business from the get-go. Link to post Share on other sites
Ricecream-man Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 How easily offended is she? I feel like there's a glaringly obvious one that you can use as long as she's a good sport... Link to post Share on other sites
WarSong Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 She's a pretty good sport . I don't want to wound her to the point she never speaks to me again but let's see the arrow. I might be able to stick a suction cup on the end.I have used the 'arousal does not equal consent' argument before. And she batted it away. I forget how exactly. Maybe she just ignored it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ricecream-man Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Disclaimer, dear AVEN please don't shoot me for this, and this would require her being a really good sport. Bring up the form vs substance argument. Since she's trans, she either still is or was in a physically male body. That was/is her form. That did not and does not reflect who she is or her "substance". Similarly you have and can experience physical arousal. However this does not reflect your substance and internal thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
WarSong Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 I agree that is pretty pointed and I had thought of something similar before. She's a really dear friend and I'd net a proper slap. I was hoping I could glean some insight. AAMOF it had only occurred to me to post in this section because I remembered she is TS. Otherwise this woulda ended up in a more general part of the forum. I guess that is the avenue to go down.Before I try it I'll see if I can't reword it to soften it a bit. Maybe? I'll try appealing to her with the 'please stop' ploy one last time. Just really express how much it really does get to me.Last ditch before I go the 'you of all people ' route.Thank you. :3 Link to post Share on other sites
Ricecream-man Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Was in the middle of something, sorry about that. For the arousal factor. Morning wood natural reaction. You can even look of the anatomical reactions that cause male arousal and use that in your defense. For the defense of asexuality, you have two options. 1. Go the super serious route. Stop her, and have a sit down dead serious talk about it. 2. Use life examples that support your case. I don't know you so I can't help in this department. Good luck from south Texas though :P Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I have a friend who is trans. Love her to bits. We're gonna go see a movie together but I KNOW the 'issue' is going to come up in conversation. Because it always does. She's not 'sold' on 'the asexuality thing'. My face makes contact with the closest surface every friggin time - or my palm if no surface with enough open space avails itself. I'm asexual. I'm aromantic. Just how the dice got rolled. One time she noticed my body got aroused (caused by some accidental stimulation) and that gets brought up every time too. Like if I'm really an ace it should be dead or something. Frustrating. So I'm asking mostly to get past how this makes me feel. BUT! Is there an argument I can use that might get her to stop bringing it up? 've already asked. Problem is: She's real smart. Like her ancient laptop runs better than my brand friggin new one. Any way I slice the conversation she just dances circles around me. I know some of it is she just loves teasing me. But I'd like to spend one outing without it being brought up. How can I accomplish this? Just first realize that she may not be able to help or quite control her attraction. But that doesn't mean *you* can't help her to, and be kind in doing so, too. One of the first things to try to make her realize is that you can't reciprocate her feelings for you, but that as the person doing the rejection, it hurts you to have to do. Let her know it's a painful dilemma for you, every bit as possibly painful as the one being rejected. But, you're going to run into two problems. The first is your being largely asexual, there is no other love interest in the life she sees you living to discourage her. She probably feels that.... and here is the second problem, caused by our culture incessantly purveying love stories where the persistent one always gets the apple of their eye.... if there is no one else, why not her? All she has to do is keep on keeping on and eventually wear you down. This is always tough, and I have to admit to not handling well being the one who has to deliver the Bad News. It often ends badly. Sometimes for only a short period of time, until the other person sees that they were unfairly using a platonic friendship like the Jolly Rodger to sneak in under the radar to get by stealth what wasn't overtly offered on the level. And I can tell you from experience... bitter experience.... that giving in almost guarantees it will blow up in your face and she'll hate you forever. YMMV (your mileage may vary), of course, but I let down my guard one time and felt obligated to return at least a little physical attention, and it was misinterpreted as being something else (probably face-saving) and the friendship was abruptly over. Scorched earth over. And I still sometimes see that if I hadn't given in, we would probably still be friends. These last years, I've avoided anything that looks like a romantic date from either gender. I found it's always best to go out in groups if possible. Maybe that might work for you, too. Good luck, and I hope you can continue to have a platonic friendship with her. Link to post Share on other sites
Touchofinsight Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 You don't HAVE to talk about it, there is nothing wrong with saying I don't want to talk about it. She may be set in her own way of thinking and there may not be anything you can do about it. You may have to come to terms with that potential reality. Its okay to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites
Prisma Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 If you want her to stop bringing it up, arguing with her about it isn't the way. From what you're saying, it sounds like she likes that. If you're good friends, and you really want her to stop, just tell her. Seriously. If she brings it up tell her you're not having this conversation again, and whether it makes sense to her or not she should just accept your definition for yourself and stop nagging you about it. If you want to convince her, however, that asexuality is a real thing, introduce her to AVEN. There are too many people here not to believe it, and some really good arguments. Link to post Share on other sites
Heart Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I think it helps that she's in the queer community to start with. I agree that using her experience to build rapport might be a good way to go, creating a bridge of sorts between the genderqueer experience and the (a)sexually queer experience. Forgive the vague terms, but I think there's real value to the queer experience. We've all had that moment of "something's not right". In her case, it was probably to do with her body and the way society interacts with it. For you, it's more on the sexuality side. It might be worth a try. Maybe the serious talk route would be a good way to approach it; invite her for a walk or find somewhere quiet to sit and chat. Then start a conversation about what it felt like to find out that there are others like you, that you're not alone in feeling this way. That kind of feeling is shared by a lot of people who have a queer experience of some sort. Perhaps from there you can steer the conversation to the topic of how it feels to have people tell you that you're wrong about your own self. Maybe she's had this experience too. Maybe she doesn't even realise she's invalidating you, doing the same to you as may have been done to her. The conversation plan I just outlined is only a very vague suggestion. You know her better than I do, but maybe it's worth a try? A slightly less abrupt way of using Ricecream-man's suggestion? If you ease into it with a conversation, and ask her to share some of her own experiences to create a shared ground first, it may seem less confrontational, if that is what you are worried about. I hope my answer doesn't come too late, and that it's helpful. Best of luck no matter what you decide to do Link to post Share on other sites
warrigan Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 She's not 'sold' on 'the asexuality thing'. does she realize that this sounds really condescending? has she ever been told something similar (that someone isn't "sold" on "the transgender thing"), and how did (/would) it make her feel? Link to post Share on other sites
WarSong Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 I have a friend who is trans. Love her to bits. We're gonna go see a movie together but I KNOW the 'issue' is going to come up in conversation. Because it always does. She's not 'sold' on 'the asexuality thing'. My face makes contact with the closest surface every friggin time - or my palm if no surface with enough open space avails itself. I'm asexual. I'm aromantic. Just how the dice got rolled. One time she noticed my body got aroused (caused by some accidental stimulation) and that gets brought up every time too. Like if I'm really an ace it should be dead or something. Frustrating. So I'm asking mostly to get past how this makes me feel. BUT! Is there an argument I can use that might get her to stop bringing it up? 've already asked. Problem is: She's real smart. Like her ancient laptop runs better than my brand friggin new one. Any way I slice the conversation she just dances circles around me. I know some of it is she just loves teasing me. But I'd like to spend one outing without it being brought up. How can I accomplish this? Just first realize that she may not be able to help or quite control her attraction. But that doesn't mean *you* can't help her to, and be kind in doing so, too. One of the first things to try to make her realize is that you can't reciprocate her feelings for you, but that as the person doing the rejection, it hurts you to have to do. Let her know it's a painful dilemma for you, every bit as possibly painful as the one being rejected. But, you're going to run into two problems. The first is your being largely asexual, there is no other love interest in the life she sees you living to discourage her. She probably feels that.... and here is the second problem, caused by our culture incessantly purveying love stories where the persistent one always gets the apple of their eye.... if there is no one else, why not her? All she has to do is keep on keeping on and eventually wear you down. This is always tough, and I have to admit to not handling well being the one who has to deliver the Bad News. It often ends badly. Sometimes for only a short period of time, until the other person sees that they were unfairly using a platonic friendship like the Jolly Rodger to sneak in under the radar to get by stealth what wasn't overtly offered on the level. And I can tell you from experience... bitter experience.... that giving in almost guarantees it will blow up in your face and she'll hate you forever. YMMV (your mileage may vary), of course, but I let down my guard one time and felt obligated to return at least a little physical attention, and it was misinterpreted as being something else (probably face-saving) and the friendship was abruptly over. Scorched earth over. And I still sometimes see that if I hadn't given in, we would probably still be friends. These last years, I've avoided anything that looks like a romantic date from either gender. I found it's always best to go out in groups if possible. Maybe that might work for you, too. Good luck, and I hope you can continue to have a platonic friendship with her. Wow. See and this was something that came up too. I was laying in bed when a sudden thought struck me. What if her teasing is her way of communicating she is attracted to me and if hoping it's mutual? I've gone through our back catalog of casual dates and other interactions and I see a pattern. Why else would she put up with someone as imperious as me (her word, not mine, I had to look it up) and still remain friends? So it makes some sense from that view. And when we've been in groups she seems resentful if I pay anyone more attention to any of them than I do to her. It's quite possible she's attracted to me. I feel terrible that I hadn't seen it before. Now I feel worse because it's not reciprocal. I don't want to make her feel rejected but at the same time she's got to understand how I feel. Man, this is hard to chew on. And need more and softer surfaces to smack my head up against. It may be tragically wishful thinking on her part. The glamorization of the faithful heart winning against all odds makes this so much more difficult than it has to be. Or maybe not. I tend to over think things. Why walk the labyrinth when the ladder to the top of the walls is right there? I'm trying to see the big picture but my brain sees one tree in a forest of "you're royally f*cked". I think the issue stems from ME. Yeah, sounds right. Dig it. I value her as a friend and if asked I would try my best to be a good boyfriend. I'm disastrously under qualified for the job. That's how we met. I was dating one of her friends romantically and that ended badly. Here's the kicker: Now we hang out and the friend I was dating (they were like sisters) don't even follow each other on facebook anymore. I'm aware of how rejected she would feel. Just like her sister; I'd be rejected too. And I'd feel it for sure. So my fears and anxieties play into this as well. Sub-consciously this may have been the root of the entire problem. I think a clean break is needed. She deserves someone who'll fulfill her wants and needs. I think I'm about to lose a friend. Any hope of restful sleep tonight just went out the friggin window. Thanks, brain. Thank you. All of you. I've read and re-read every post trying to wrap my mind around the real problem. And it's my slow wits and fears that are to blame. Link to post Share on other sites
Ricecream-man Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Wow. See and this was something that came up too. I was laying in bed when a sudden thought struck me. What if her teasing is her way of communicating she is attracted to me and if hoping it's mutual? I've gone through our back catalog of casual dates and other interactions and I see a pattern. Why else would she put up with someone as imperious as me (her word, not mine, I had to look it up) and still remain friends? So it makes some sense from that view. And when we've been in groups she seems resentful if I pay anyone more attention to any of them than I do to her. It's quite possible she's attracted to me. I feel terrible that I hadn't seen it before. Now I feel worse because it's not reciprocal. I don't want to make her feel rejected but at the same time she's got to understand how I feel. Man, this is hard to chew on. And need more and softer surfaces to smack my head up against. It may be tragically wishful thinking on her part. The glamorization of the faithful heart winning against all odds makes this so much more difficult than it has to be. Or maybe not. I tend to over think things. Why walk the labyrinth when the ladder to the top of the walls is right there? I'm trying to see the big picture but my brain sees one tree in a forest of "you're royally f*cked". I think the issue stems from ME. Yeah, sounds right. Dig it. I value her as a friend and if asked I would try my best to be a good boyfriend. I'm disastrously under qualified for the job. That's how we met. I was dating one of her friends romantically and that ended badly. Here's the kicker: Now we hang out and the friend I was dating (they were like sisters) don't even follow each other on facebook anymore. I'm aware of how rejected she would feel. Just like her sister; I'd be rejected too. And I'd feel it for sure. So my fears and anxieties play into this as well. Sub-consciously this may have been the root of the entire problem. I think a clean break is needed. She deserves someone who'll fulfill her wants and needs. I think I'm about to lose a friend. Any hope of restful sleep tonight just went out the friggin window. Thanks, brain. Thank you. All of you. I've read and re-read every post trying to wrap my mind around the real problem. And it's my slow wits and fears that are to blame. Whoa, slow the hell down there. What made you jump to that conclusion? Maybe she actually enjoys the fact that you're not asking more of her and she just wants friend dates without any risk of more happening? Don't rush into things like this without giving it some time, especially not off of a decision that you've made at the end of the day when you're tired. Slow yourself down. PLUS! Assuming for a second that it actually is a boyfriend that she's looking for and that she's interested in you, what makes you think that you're under-qualified? That's not only insulting to you but her as well. Your lack of confidence causes you pain, but it also is an insult to her. If you really consider her as intelligent and wonderful as you make her out to be, why are you thinking that she's too stupid to decide what she wants for herself or to see your supposed faults? Stop putting yourself down like that. Before you make any rash decisions, please pm me at some point. We're in the same state so I should be up around the same times that you are. Hell, if I knew you in person I'd offer to meet up with you right now as well. Link to post Share on other sites
WarSong Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well we're goign over this in the PM huh? Just to update anyone who cares to know: I'm just going to make myself less available. See if things slow down. Link to post Share on other sites
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