What am I not understanding about this forum?

[thisforumisstupid]

AVEN is an educational forum primarily, it's a great place to come and ask questions, learn about yourself and help others do the same with your own experiences :) If we were to censor all talk of sex and sexual activity, where else could people access the kind of knowledge, support and experience that this community provides?

For those who are not sexual in any way, there would be no need for talk of sex and sexual activity.

Thus, the confusion, and why the term is not being understood by people seeking to connect with others who have no want or need for sex.

[thisforumisstupid]

You really do get a wide verity of aces as it's been pointed out, and even though my past allosexual relationship failed i know they went on here to ask Q&A and try to understand me better. It was well appreciated on my end and booting off people who need/want to talk about sex in relation to asexuality or just sex in general will do a big dis-service to sexuals and asexuals alike.

If terminology is accurate enough to indicate who it applies to, there would be no confusion about what discussions are going to be about . . . in other words, the terminology is not accurate.

And again . . . demi, gray, allo, romantic, etc. is just muddying the waters for those who have zero sexual anything.

[thisforumisstupid]

Not even any sexual thoughts or interests? Can I not even like From Dusk Till Dawn or the film Heavy Metal. You don't want to get in the way of my love for Heavy Metal. It's dangerous! :o

And ya, I think a lot of people on here with high sex drives are going to agree, not counting them as ace is just not right.

We are asexual, not anti-sexual.

????

So you think people with high sex drives should be labeled "asexual" and be part of an asexual community?

Then what possible purpose could it serve for those with zero drive, interest, need, or want?

[Frigid Pink]

Well, first off, the idea of "true" asexual is pretty much nonexistent, especially because it brings with it elitist tones (true/pure/real/etc.). It takes all types, and just like there's a variety of sexuals, asexuality is no different. There are sex-repulsed, abstinent/celibate asexuals, nonlibidoists and so on, but stuff like that focuses more on activity rather than orientation. There simply is no ranking, here, as that is not AVEN's purpose.

Where is this notion coming from that the term "true" asexual is "elitist"? I would NEVER have interpreted it that way and it makes me wonder where such a thought process is coming from.

I apologize if my posts have come across as suggesting there should be a ranking system here or anything like that - it's not my forum and not my place to dictate the organization.

I'm just trying to figure out why the term "asexual" is so muddied. And it is, due to the trendy sounding name labels (demi. gray) and what seems to be a contradictory acceptance that asexuals have sex.

It is an elitist term because it implies that one asexual may be better than another or more valid based on a certain set of characteristics. It's a term that engenders an "us" vs. "them" mentality. We're all people. We're all human. I think it's better to foster an attitude of acceptance and tolerance of differences vs. discrimination/segregation/rejection.

I actually don't think asexuals/sexuals and all matter of greyness in between are all that different. Sexual orientation isn't everything or even the main thing about any one person, at least I certainly don't view my sexual orientation as the most important thing about or main aspect of my existence. Again, we're all people, and sexual orientation is only one of the many characteristics we have.

Also, when you refer to orientations that are different from asexuality (demi-sexual, grey-sexual, etc.) as "muddied," it comes across as though those orientations are inferior or less than ("muddied" comes across as "dirty" and neither word has any positive connotations). It actually reminds me of the term "mudblood" from Harry Potter, which is an example of an elitist and discriminatory term.

No-one here has said that demi-sexuality/grey-sexuality/etc. are the same as asexuality (they're not and that's why they have different names). Asexuality isn't better than any other sexual orientation out there, it's just different, and that's okay. We're all different and that's okay.

[thisforumisstupid]

Quirky... stick around, I'm sure you'll find plenty of other people who are celibate and have no sex drive and no interest in sex, etc. etc. etc. It's just that we have all kinds around here.

Well . . . the lines are pretty haywire right now, lol.

[Frigid Pink]

As someone who is older and would like a companion, but without sex, I think such a forum would be great.

AVEN isn't a dating site. It isn't even a social networking site. It's a place for asexual visibility and education. I'd suggest an asexual dating site or a celibate dating site.

[thisforumisstupid]

Well, first off, the idea of "true" asexual is pretty much nonexistent, especially because it brings with it elitist tones (true/pure/real/etc.). It takes all types, and just like there's a variety of sexuals, asexuality is no different. There are sex-repulsed, abstinent/celibate asexuals, nonlibidoists and so on, but stuff like that focuses more on activity rather than orientation. There simply is no ranking, here, as that is not AVEN's purpose.

Where is this notion coming from that the term "true" asexual is "elitist"? I would NEVER have interpreted it that way and it makes me wonder where such a thought process is coming from.

I apologize if my posts have come across as suggesting there should be a ranking system here or anything like that - it's not my forum and not my place to dictate the organization.

I'm just trying to figure out why the term "asexual" is so muddied. And it is, due to the trendy sounding name labels (demi. gray) and what seems to be a contradictory acceptance that asexuals have sex.

It is an elitist term because it implies that one asexual may be better than another or more valid based on a certain set of characteristics. It's a term that engenders an "us" vs. "them" mentality. We're all people. We're all human. I think it's better to foster an attitude of acceptance and tolerance of differences vs. discrimination/segregation/rejection.

I actually don't think asexuals/sexuals and all matter of greyness in between are all that different. Sexual orientation isn't everything or even the main thing about any one person, at least I certainly don't view my sexual orientation as the most important thing about or main aspect of my existence. Again, we're all people, and sexual orientation is only one of the many characteristics we have.

Also, when you refer to orientations that are different from asexuality (demi-sexual, grey-sexual, etc.) as "muddied," it comes across as though those orientations are inferior or less than ("muddied" comes across as "dirty" and neither word has any positive connotations). It actually reminds me of the term "mudblood" from Harry Potter, which is an example of an elitist and discriminatory term.

No-one here has said that demi-sexuality/grey-sexuality/etc. are the same as asexuality (they're not and that's why they have different names). Asexuality isn't better than any other sexual orientation out there, it's just different, and that's okay. We're all different and that's okay.

Omg. So "muddied" is interpreted NOT as I meant it, but rather as dirty or inferior. Oh please.

I thought "Sally" yesterday was being rude and disrespectful by attacking me for using the word "pure" in reference to my suggestion of a community strictly for those who have no sexual anything.

Wow, talk about overly sensitive.

And the hypocrisy is that I am being told what to say and not say and think and not think . . . all the while MY words are being twisted and misconstrued and misinterpreted.

Just wow.

As someone who is older and would like a companion, but without sex, I think such a forum would be great.

AVEN isn't a dating site. It isn't even a social networking site. It's a place for asexual visibility and education. I'd suggest an asexual dating site or a celibate dating site.

Is it not a place for people to form friendships through discussion?

[thisforumisstupid]

Someone does not need to have sexual attraction in order to have sex. Sexual attraction is different from sexual desire. Some asexual people enjoy sex for a variety of reasons. Others do not enjoy sex at all.

Also, the term "true asexual" is a problematic one. Using it invalidates anyone who identifies with and uses the label of "asexual" for themselves, but enjoys sex on a physical level, or has a sex drive but not sexual attraction.

This is too mired in semantics. Drive. Attraction. Desire. It's all being made too complicated - as is typical of the human species.- and too many lines are being crossed in the "definitions".

A true asexual (and folks, that is not an "elitist" term) does not have sex, want sex, need sex, or enjoy sex. No drive, no desire, no attraction, no activity.

If you have a sex drive, a sexual attraction, and/or sexual desire, you are not asexual. Period.

If you engage in sex, you are not asexual. Period.

All this demi and gray stuff being applied to asexuality is hooey. Let those terms stand alone - apart from the label of asexual.

There's no such thing as a (true) Asexual.

Disagree.

They're not semantics. They're true likes and dislikes of very real people who identify as asexual. Also, "true asexual" is an elitist term, and we try to not use it here on AVEN so as to be able to include everyone who does or would like to use the label of asexual for themselves. You cannot (as per our Terms of Service and common sense) label or not label anyone. You do not know my thoughts or feelings or experiences and therefore you cannot tell me what my identity is. That is for me to decide, not you.

This entire forum is about labels. All you do here is label and indentify people and confuse them with mumbo-jumbo gray area terminology . . . but you get practically hysterical about the use of the word "true".

And I do not presume to know YOUR thoughts or feelings or those of anyone else here . . . just as YOU don't know MINE.

Or does that courtesy only extend one way?

[Steph Ace]

Not even any sexual thoughts or interests? Can I not even like From Dusk Till Dawn or the film Heavy Metal. You don't want to get in the way of my love for Heavy Metal. It's dangerous! :o

And ya, I think a lot of people on here with high sex drives are going to agree, not counting them as ace is just not right.

We are asexual, not anti-sexual.

????

So you think people with high sex drives should be labeled "asexual" and be part of an asexual community?

Then what possible purpose could it serve for those with zero drive, interest, need, or want?

Quirky. There are definitions for all that you are talking about. The reason that the asexual community has ripped apart the concept of Relationships, Sexuality and Identity is because it needs deeper definitions.

For most Allosexuals (People who identify as having sexual attraction) these componets are all one in the same. There is no need for Romantic (A relationship aspect regarding emotional intimacy) or Sexual (In this Context: A relationship aspect regarding physical intimacy) division because they alline perfectly together.

Many Asexuals still date and have a Romantic identity such at Heteromantic (A romantic attraction to the opposite gender), Homoromantic (A romantic attraction to the opposite gender) and Panromantic (A romantic attraction to all genders). There has been an increased definition of relationships, such as the Asexual term "Queer-Platonic" (A deep, emotional, friendship with limited physical/ sexual activity) to expand upon relationship structures.

Following the Romantic/ Dating analysis, lets observe the Libido ("Sex Drive" or desire for Sex) which is still different from Partnered Sex (Sexual acts with another person) as many Asexuals with Libidos, including myself, take care of it by ourselves. You also have Nonlibioism (A person that doesn't experience a Sexual Drive) which exists on the end of a spectrum. There are also Asexuals who are Celibate (A commitment to abstain from Sexual acts) however it should be noted that is a mental choice not to act upon a Libido, NOT AN INDIFERENCE.

These definitions DO NOT EXIST in Allosexual social circles. They are primarily made by the Asexual community and I haven't even gone in depth with what was spoken. It is agreed upon that Asexuality is "A lack of sexual attraction". At the end of the day, labels are just names we give to feelings. Labels help us to find people who are like us. They are NOT perfect fits to the human condition and therefore should be left open.

[Lia]

We're trying to tell you, in a rather nice way, what you can and cannot express on AVEN.

• You cannot express elitist views on AVEN.
• You cannot label someone else on AVEN.
• You cannot make all sweeping remarks about any one group of people on AVEN.

All of these things are against our Terms of Service. We're trying to help you see what AVEN is while you continue to bemoan what AVEN isn't.

[Frigid Pink]

Wow, talk about overly sensitive.

It's okay to be sensitive.

It's not okay to be dismissive of other people's feelings.

Is it not a place for people to form friendships through discussion?

It's not the primary purpose of the site, however, if people form relationships (friendly/romantic/etc.), then great!

[thisforumisstupid]

Someone does not need to have sexual attraction in order to have sex. Sexual attraction is different from sexual desire. Some asexual people enjoy sex for a variety of reasons. Others do not enjoy sex at all.

Also, the term "true asexual" is a problematic one. Using it invalidates anyone who identifies with and uses the label of "asexual" for themselves, but enjoys sex on a physical level, or has a sex drive but not sexual attraction.

This is too mired in semantics. Drive. Attraction. Desire. It's all being made too complicated - as is typical of the human species.- and too many lines are being crossed in the "definitions".

A true asexual (and folks, that is not an "elitist" term) does not have sex, want sex, need sex, or enjoy sex. No drive, no desire, no attraction, no activity.

If you have a sex drive, a sexual attraction, and/or sexual desire, you are not asexual. Period.

If you engage in sex, you are not asexual. Period.

All this demi and gray stuff being applied to asexuality is hooey. Let those terms stand alone - apart from the label of asexual.

There's no such thing as a (true) Asexual.

Disagree.

Personally, I talk about sex all the time with everyone in my family. I talk to my cousins about who their brother is sleeping with at the time, I talk to my aunt about her sex life with her husband, I talk to my coworker about her sex life with her husband, we talk about our likes, dislikes, needs, limits, orgasms, oral sex, sex, anal sex, fetishes, liking sex, wanting sex, being promiscuous... We were at a family dinner the other night, with my grandparents, and the story was told about how on Mother's day, my cousin had to ask his sister in law and brothers and parents to stay in the kitchen so the girl he slept with the night before could sneak out without having to face them in her "walk of shame" as it's called. We were sitting at our Thanksgiving dinner table just this past Thursday and my 75 year old grandmother told my cousin that no, he could not suck on something before we said grace. It's just the way it is. We talk about sex, and I like talking about sex. I like making and hearing and telling sex jokes. I like postulating about what may or may not feel good. I like hearing about what other people like. It's not because I'm made to feel "weird". I initiate the conversations most of the time.

This idea that you seem to have about "true" asexuality and what makes a person asexual is off base. Asexuals come in all shapes and sizes, and they have varying degrees of sexual drive and varying degrees of tolerance for sexual talk/jokes/innuendo. Why? Because we're human, too and all humans have those variances.

So you don't think anyone has the right to tell you about YOUR feelings . . . but you are telling ME that my beliefs about TRUE asexuality are off-base?

Do you even realize how hypocritical that is?

No, my beliefs and my choice of word are NOT off-base at all - they are MINE and they're more correct than you know.

And . . .

I'm sure this is going to get me booted from this forum and that is just fine because I already don't like it here and it's apparent there is some kind of weird agenda in mixing asexuals in with sexuals, but your description of your and your friends and family obsession with sex talk is just . . . creepy.

Beyond creepy.

And that's not my age or demographics talking, it's my COMMON SENSE and SENSE OF DECENCY.

Your obsession with sex is something you should assess in order to figure out why you fixate so much on something that is so personal and not for everyday, every minute discussion and thought.

Or perhaps you just need a constructive, productive hobby in your life.

I have been NOTHING but cordial on this forum in the two days I've been here, but this hostility from you and some others and your Nazi-like dictatorship about words and feelings is beyond the pale.

Now . . . boot me if you must, but I challenge you to leave these posts up for others to read.

if you delete the posts, it just means you are censoring people and being even more hypocritical than you've already been.

[WünderBâhr]

Thread locked pending Admod Review.

*UPDATE*: This thread shall remain locked due to circumstances which render post replies moot.

Byanyothername
Asexual Q&A Mod

Edited December 5, 2014 by byanyothername
adding update