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thisforumisstupid

The banner says "an asexual person is a person who does not experience sexual attraction" . . .

So any asexual who visits will automatically think that he or she has found a place to communicate and connect only with other asexuals.

I only registered a couple of days ago and was encouraged to find this forum.

I'm not rhe least bit interested in discussing alternative sexual lifestyles or anything related to sexual desires or activities, but rather to connect with others who quite simply want and have a "no sex" lifestyle.

However, the more I've looked around the forum, the less encouraged and more confused I have become:

Why does a forum that appears to be for those who do not experience sexual attraction include a multitude of posts by people who DO have sexual desires and engage in sexual intercourse and a variety of sexual-related activities?

As an asexual, I'm finding this to be very alienating.

My opinion has nothing to do with the LGBT community and is not a judgment in the least against those who engage in sex . . . but what possible purpose can this forum serve for those who have absolutely no interest in or need for sex or any sexual-related thoughts or activities?

This all makes me wonder even more about the need for a community that is strictly for asexuals, be they straight or gay, who do not fit in any of the demi, gray, etc. categories and also do not want to post along with others who DO have sexual feelings and attractions.

Not meaning to stir the pot or argue - but find this a legit topic of concern for what I suspect is a very large faction of (true) asexuals.

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drjohnhwatson

Well, I imagine that a great many of the people that are on here who have sex or whatever have partners or friends or family members who are asexual and said members are trying to find a network of support or ways to better handle and treat the people that they love. Or perhaps they're seeking a place to vent and ways to better understand themselves and their asexual partners.

And I don't see the harm of people posting alongside people who have sexual desire? It's a little odd to completely segregate one's self from others because one has no sexual drive. I'm an asexual myself and I just stay out of the threads, mainly, wherein they clearly state the topics are going to be sexual (unless my curiosity overtakes me).

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Someone does not need to have sexual attraction in order to have sex. Sexual attraction is different from sexual desire. Some asexual people enjoy sex for a variety of reasons. Others do not enjoy sex at all.

Also, the term "true asexual" is a problematic one. Using it invalidates anyone who identifies with and uses the label of "asexual" for themselves, but enjoys sex on a physical level, or has a sex drive but not sexual attraction.

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I think a large part of the purpose of this forum is to help people along the scale of asexuality to talk about and commiserate about their experience as a minority orientation, discover themselves more, and learn more about people who feel differently then they do about sex.

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I think you are misunderstanding the kind of asexual people that tend to use this site.

A lot of the members here are asexual(myself included), but most of the people that are coming here that are asexual have just heard about it for the first time. Now, they might think, well I sound a whole lot like ace, but I still like kissing, so is that ok? So they'll flat out ask. Or, they might say, well I'm sure I'm ace, but I like sex jokes, is that ok? So they'll ask.

You get what I'm saying. People here are feeling out their sexuality, and to do this you kind of have to talk about sex. Sorry, but it comes with the territory. Added to this, a lot of asexual people on here like to date and might end up in mixed relationships, so once again, they might want to talk about sex to find out how to deal with that.

And then you got sex positive asexual people like me that don't find anyone sexy, but finds sex itself interesting and likes to talk about it.

And then you got people on here complaining about how there is to much sex in the world.

And as you can see, that's a whole lot of people talking about sex, even though we are all ace. Hope that clears things up.

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Also, I don't think that there is any way to talk about one's sexuality without first talking about sex. "What is Asexuality?" "Someone who doesn't experience sexual attraction." "Well what is sexual attraction?" "When you feel drawn to have sex with another person, for whatever reasons." "Well hey. I like to kiss/make out/have oral sex/etc. but not have intercourse so maybe I'm asexual?" etc. Separating discussion of sex from discussion of sexuality is doing a huge disservice to both topics.

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I think your idea of an ace (or under the ace umbrella) forum only is interesting but hardly likely or a good idea. People don't always identify as ace as soon as they join and others are simply curious about us an our identities. There is no other place a person with an ace partner can go to ask questions. An ace/grace/demi only forum or cite would simply be too inclusive, and an ace only one would be more so.

Part of what we are trying to do here on AVEN is to accept everyone. Everybody is welcome on here and will not be turned away just because they aren't ace, involved with an ace, are under the ace umbrella, or whatever. Just as the LGBT+ community involves and invites allies, we're inviting and welcoming allies as well.

Also, sex is part of many asexuals lives. Some masturbate and others participate in sex with a partner or loved one. Others are curious though never want to experience it themselves. We come here to learn and to talk about these things.

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Well, first off, the idea of "true" asexual is pretty much nonexistent, especially because it brings with it elitist tones (true/pure/real/etc.). It takes all types, and just like there's a variety of sexuals, asexuality is no different. There are sex-repulsed, abstinent/celibate asexuals, nonlibidoists and so on, but stuff like that focuses more on activity rather than orientation. There simply is no ranking, here, as that is not AVEN's purpose.

A few helpful links:

FAQ Overview

Are asexual people more (sensible/clever/etc.) than sexual people?

I'm so glad I found this community. People who have sex are so (annoying/stupid/wrong/evil), aren't they?

What is "asexual elitism" and why does AVEN discourage it?

and quoted from the History section of the "AVEN" AVENWiki article:

AVEN was reconstructed in the hopes of becoming a more inclusive option, based in sex-neutrality ("sex is great if you're interested, but if you're not interested, you don't have to worry about it") and the belief that anyone who identifies as asexual is validly asexual, regardless of sex drive or other factors.

By the way, the AVENWiki is a pretty good resource for information, if you feel like browsing around. :)

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The banner says "an asexual person is a person who does not experience sexual attraction" . . .

So any asexual who visits will automatically think that he or she has found a place to communicate and connect only with other asexuals.

I only registered a couple of days ago and was encouraged to find this forum.

I'm not rhe least bit interested in discussing alternative sexual lifestyles or anything related to sexual desires or activities, but rather to connect with others who quite simply want and have a "no sex" lifestyle.

However, the more I've looked around the forum, the less encouraged and more confused I have become:

Why does a forum that appears to be for those who do not experience sexual attraction include a multitude of posts by people who DO have sexual desires and engage in sexual intercourse and a variety of sexual-related activities?

As an asexual, I'm finding this to be very alienating.

My opinion has nothing to do with the LGBT community and is not a judgment in the least against those who engage in sex . . . but what possible purpose can this forum serve for those who have absolutely no interest in or need for sex or any sexual-related thoughts or activities?

This all makes me wonder even more about the need for a community that is strictly for asexuals, be they straight or gay, who do not fit in any of the demi, gray, etc. categories and also do not want to post along with others who DO have sexual feelings and attractions.

Not meaning to stir the pot or argue - but find this a legit topic of concern for what I suspect is a very large faction of (true) asexuals.

I totally agree with you.

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Sorry I think you (EDIT: and Bronte as well evidently) are looking for the "completely celibate non-libido non-sensual asexual forum" .. we don't actually have one of those here. Asexuality is about not experiencing sexual attraction and/or having no innate desire for partnered sex, but some asexuals still have sexual romantic partners who they engage in sexual activity with for the sake of their partners happiness,some asexuals still experience arousal and masturbate, some asexuals have fetishes, some have fantasies, some asexuals love sensual activities (everything except actual sex).. some even enjoy having partnered sex, they just don't *need* it be happy in their life.. then of course we have sexual partners and allies here as well, and yes we have gray-asexuals and demisexuals, both of which are subcategories of asexuality.

"Not experiencing sexual attraction" does not equate to "no sexual feelings" .. all it means is that we don't find other people attractive in a way that makes us think "daaamn I'd love to have sex with him/her" So yeah, if you're looking for somewhere that is totally utterly free of all sex talk, all masturbation talk, all talk about human sexuality, then you'll have to go the "totally celibate non-libido non-sensual asexual forum" but I'm not sure if that place exists online.. Maybe somewhere on Tumblr? :o

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Now, now. Quirkyme poses an interesting question that needed some clarification. There are asexuals who do want that sex-free safe space (and even some celibate sexuals, I'm sure). The clarification here is that AVEN is inclusive and neutral/sex-positive to some extent. So... that's been clarified. :) Hooray for information! \0/

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There's parts specific to those who experience romantic/no romantic attraction as well as spots for allies of the asexual community to talk and feel comfortable with each other. Considering this forum has 64k+ members, we all come from different backgrounds, education in terms of gender/sexuality, etc... Not everyone is going to get along 100%, or have their ideas match up 100%.

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Asexuality is a relatively recent addition to recognised sexualities so it's bound to bring some confusion. Sexuality is a very difficult thing to pin down and we categorise to seek understanding of ourselves and find comfort in belonging. Perhaps we shouldn't categorise sexuality, but society does so we oblige.

I get that it may not be exactly how you want it but no one is here just to fool around. We're all here because we're trying to come to terms with who we are and maybe need to talk openly to better understand ourselves. It may be that some people here will categorise themselves as something different next year, realising that they weren't asexual. I don't think we should be hostile towards these people. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have reached your understanding quicker than them.

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Mycroft is Yourcroft

AVEN is an educational forum primarily, it's a great place to come and ask questions, learn about yourself and help others do the same with your own experiences :) If we were to censor all talk of sex and sexual activity, where else could people access the kind of knowledge, support and experience that this community provides?

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littlepersonparadox

You really do get a wide verity of aces as it's been pointed out, and even though my past allosexual relationship failed i know they went on here to ask Q&A and try to understand me better. It was well appreciated on my end and booting off people who need/want to talk about sex in relation to asexuality or just sex in general will do a big dis-service to sexuals and asexuals alike.

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thisforumisstupid

Well, I imagine that a great many of the people that are on here who have sex or whatever have partners or friends or family members who are asexual and said members are trying to find a network of support or ways to better handle and treat the people that they love. Or perhaps they're seeking a place to vent and ways to better understand themselves and their asexual partners.

And I don't see the harm of people posting alongside people who have sexual desire? It's a little odd to completely segregate one's self from others because one has no sexual drive. I'm an asexual myself and I just stay out of the threads, mainly, wherein they clearly state the topics are going to be sexual (unless my curiosity overtakes me).

Ok, I can understand someone coming here for information and a better understanding, though frankly I would be mortified if any of my friends or family were researching sex (or non sex) based topics as such relates to me because it's straight up none of their business. A partner may need to be educated about something, but family and friends? Heck no. And why in the world would anyone discuss asexuality with their family?

There's no "harm" in the postings, but having sexual discussions by people who ARE sexually active is contradictory to what many asexuals are seeking. Again, it comes down to what I call "true" asexuals, and I disagree with anyone who says there is no such thing - there is indeed such a thing as a true asexual, which is a person who has no sexual interests, attraction, thoughts, or activities.

And I don't think it's "odd" at all to "segregate" because people who have zero interest or need for sex have no reason to be integrated into any discussions with sexually active people.

That's fine for asexuals to choose to stay out of the threads, as you say you do . . . and I'm not trying to rock the boat here, I'm just saying that I know there are asexuals who would indeed like to interact in a totally non-sex based forum.

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thisforumisstupid

Someone does not need to have sexual attraction in order to have sex. Sexual attraction is different from sexual desire. Some asexual people enjoy sex for a variety of reasons. Others do not enjoy sex at all.

Also, the term "true asexual" is a problematic one. Using it invalidates anyone who identifies with and uses the label of "asexual" for themselves, but enjoys sex on a physical level, or has a sex drive but not sexual attraction.

This is too mired in semantics. Drive. Attraction. Desire. It's all being made too complicated - as is typical of the human species.- and too many lines are being crossed in the "definitions".

A true asexual (and folks, that is not an "elitist" term) does not have sex, want sex, need sex, or enjoy sex. No drive, no desire, no attraction, no activity.

If you have a sex drive, a sexual attraction, and/or sexual desire, you are not asexual. Period.

If you engage in sex, you are not asexual. Period.

All this demi and gray stuff being applied to asexuality is hooey. Let those terms stand alone - apart from the label of asexual.

There's no such thing as a (true) Asexual.

Disagree.

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Not even any sexual thoughts or interests? Can I not even like From Dusk Till Dawn or the film Heavy Metal. You don't want to get in the way of my love for Heavy Metal. It's dangerous! :o

And ya, I think a lot of people on here with high sex drives are going to agree, not counting them as ace is just not right.

We are asexual, not anti-sexual.

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thisforumisstupid

Also, I don't think that there is any way to talk about one's sexuality without first talking about sex. "What is Asexuality?" "Someone who doesn't experience sexual attraction." "Well what is sexual attraction?" "When you feel drawn to have sex with another person, for whatever reasons." "Well hey. I like to kiss/make out/have oral sex/etc. but not have intercourse so maybe I'm asexual?" etc. Separating discussion of sex from discussion of sexuality is doing a huge disservice to both topics.

Why would an asexual person need to talk about something they have no interest or desire or need for?

If one has identified oneself as an asexual, then discussions about sexual activity are not even on their radar and the only reason they may come to forums like this is to connect with other asexuals for friendship and companionship.

The only possible reason I can imagine that asexuals would get caught up in actual detailed discussions about sex, attraction, desire, etc. is if they are being pressured by people or made to feel like some kind of freaks and they are questioning how they feel - which is really unacceptable that any asexual person would be made to feel that way.

But I still don't get this concept that people who have ANY form of sex are being identified as "asexual" . . . it's a blatant contradiction and just further alienates those who have no interest or need for sex and makes them feel like outcasts.

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Quirky... stick around, I'm sure you'll find plenty of other people who are celibate and have no sex drive and no interest in sex, etc. etc. etc. It's just that we have all kinds around here.

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thisforumisstupid

I think your idea of an ace (or under the ace umbrella) forum only is interesting but hardly likely or a good idea. People don't always identify as ace as soon as they join and others are simply curious about us an our identities. There is no other place a person with an ace partner can go to ask questions. An ace/grace/demi only forum or cite would simply be too inclusive, and an ace only one would be more so.

Part of what we are trying to do here on AVEN is to accept everyone. Everybody is welcome on here and will not be turned away just because they aren't ace, involved with an ace, are under the ace umbrella, or whatever. Just as the LGBT+ community involves and invites allies, we're inviting and welcoming allies as well.

I totally get that people visit for education and awareness and others may be seeking answers because their partner has no sexual interest, etc.

And yeah, there seem to be variables galore . . . but it also seems to me that if a person has sex, wants sex, needs sex - they are not asexual. Period.

These terms like demi and gray and all that muddy the waters. When all the variables run too close together, it only creates more and more confusion for people who may already be thoroughly confused and wondering.

So maybe the word "asexual" should be re-defined to identify people who do not have sex, want sex, or need sex - whether from early ages or a newfound existence later in life after having been sexual for a long time, whether they were straight, gay, bi, whatever, but who NOW have zero sexual attraction, desire, interest, or activity.

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Someone does not need to have sexual attraction in order to have sex. Sexual attraction is different from sexual desire. Some asexual people enjoy sex for a variety of reasons. Others do not enjoy sex at all.

Also, the term "true asexual" is a problematic one. Using it invalidates anyone who identifies with and uses the label of "asexual" for themselves, but enjoys sex on a physical level, or has a sex drive but not sexual attraction.

This is too mired in semantics. Drive. Attraction. Desire. It's all being made too complicated - as is typical of the human species.- and too many lines are being crossed in the "definitions".

A true asexual (and folks, that is not an "elitist" term) does not have sex, want sex, need sex, or enjoy sex. No drive, no desire, no attraction, no activity.

If you have a sex drive, a sexual attraction, and/or sexual desire, you are not asexual. Period.

If you engage in sex, you are not asexual. Period.

All this demi and gray stuff being applied to asexuality is hooey. Let those terms stand alone - apart from the label of asexual.

There's no such thing as a (true) Asexual.

Disagree.

They're not semantics. They're true likes and dislikes of very real people who identify as asexual. Also, "true asexual" is an elitist term, and we try to not use it here on AVEN so as to be able to include everyone who does or would like to use the label of asexual for themselves. You cannot (as per our Terms of Service and common sense) label or not label anyone. You do not know my thoughts or feelings or experiences and therefore you cannot tell me what my identity is. That is for me to decide, not you.

An asexual person will talk with family and friends about sex for a variety of reasons. Some in order to explain to someone why grandchildren/nieces/nephews/etc. won't be entering the picture, some in order to explain themselves. Your sexual orientation is part of your identity as a person, and some feel as though they cannot truly be themselves without having "come out" to those around them.

Personally, I talk about sex all the time with everyone in my family. I talk to my cousins about who their brother is sleeping with at the time, I talk to my aunt about her sex life with her husband, I talk to my coworker about her sex life with her husband, we talk about our likes, dislikes, needs, limits, orgasms, oral sex, sex, anal sex, fetishes, liking sex, wanting sex, being promiscuous... We were at a family dinner the other night, with my grandparents, and the story was told about how on Mother's day, my cousin had to ask his sister in law and brothers and parents to stay in the kitchen so the girl he slept with the night before could sneak out without having to face them in her "walk of shame" as it's called. We were sitting at our Thanksgiving dinner table just this past Thursday and my 75 year old grandmother told my cousin that no, he could not suck on something before we said grace. It's just the way it is. We talk about sex, and I like talking about sex. I like making and hearing and telling sex jokes. I like postulating about what may or may not feel good. I like hearing about what other people like. It's not because I'm made to feel "weird". I initiate the conversations most of the time.

This idea that you seem to have about "true" asexuality and what makes a person asexual is off base. Asexuals come in all shapes and sizes, and they have varying degrees of sexual drive and varying degrees of tolerance for sexual talk/jokes/innuendo. Why? Because we're human, too and all humans have those variances.

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thisforumisstupid

The banner says "an asexual person is a person who does not experience sexual attraction" . . .

So any asexual who visits will automatically think that he or she has found a place to communicate and connect only with other asexuals.

I only registered a couple of days ago and was encouraged to find this forum.

I'm not rhe least bit interested in discussing alternative sexual lifestyles or anything related to sexual desires or activities, but rather to connect with others who quite simply want and have a "no sex" lifestyle.

However, the more I've looked around the forum, the less encouraged and more confused I have become:

Why does a forum that appears to be for those who do not experience sexual attraction include a multitude of posts by people who DO have sexual desires and engage in sexual intercourse and a variety of sexual-related activities?

As an asexual, I'm finding this to be very alienating.

My opinion has nothing to do with the LGBT community and is not a judgment in the least against those who engage in sex . . . but what possible purpose can this forum serve for those who have absolutely no interest in or need for sex or any sexual-related thoughts or activities?

This all makes me wonder even more about the need for a community that is strictly for asexuals, be they straight or gay, who do not fit in any of the demi, gray, etc. categories and also do not want to post along with others who DO have sexual feelings and attractions.

Not meaning to stir the pot or argue - but find this a legit topic of concern for what I suspect is a very large faction of (true) asexuals.

I totally agree with you.

Thank you!

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To Quirkyme and how ace should be redefined: That wouldn't be an orientation though. That would be just people that lost interest in sex.

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thisforumisstupid

Well, first off, the idea of "true" asexual is pretty much nonexistent, especially because it brings with it elitist tones (true/pure/real/etc.). It takes all types, and just like there's a variety of sexuals, asexuality is no different. There are sex-repulsed, abstinent/celibate asexuals, nonlibidoists and so on, but stuff like that focuses more on activity rather than orientation. There simply is no ranking, here, as that is not AVEN's purpose.

Where is this notion coming from that the term "true" asexual is "elitist"? I would NEVER have interpreted it that way and it makes me wonder where such a thought process is coming from.

I apologize if my posts have come across as suggesting there should be a ranking system here or anything like that - it's not my forum and not my place to dictate the organization.

I'm just trying to figure out why the term "asexual" is so muddied. And it is, due to the trendy sounding name labels (demi. gray) and what seems to be a contradictory acceptance that asexuals have sex.

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thisforumisstupid

Asexuality is about not experiencing sexual attraction and/or having no innate desire for partnered sex, but some asexuals still have sexual romantic partners who they engage in sexual activity with for the sake of their partners happiness,some asexuals still experience arousal and masturbate, some asexuals have fetishes, some have fantasies, some asexuals love sensual activities (everything except actual sex).. some even enjoy having partnered sex, they just don't *need* it be happy in their life.. then of course we have sexual partners and allies here as well, and yes we have gray-asexuals and demisexuals, both of which are subcategories of asexuality.

"Not experiencing sexual attraction" does not equate to "no sexual feelings" .. all it means is that we don't find other people attractive in a way that makes us think "daaamn I'd love to have sex with him/her" So yeah, if you're looking for somewhere that is totally utterly free of all sex talk, all masturbation talk, all talk about human sexuality, then you'll have to go the "totally celibate non-libido non-sensual asexual forum" but I'm not sure if that place exists online.. Maybe somewhere on Tumblr? :o

I think that's what this really is - a misnomer.

To me and I'm sure to many others, "asexuality" means no interest, desire, need for sex. But it appears this is a very misleading term and I think it's going to disappoint and dissuade a lot of people who are seeking connections with others who have zero sexual-based lives.

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thisforumisstupid

Now, now. Quirkyme poses an interesting question that needed some clarification. There are asexuals who do want that sex-free safe space (and even some celibate sexuals, I'm sure). The clarification here is that AVEN is inclusive and neutral/sex-positive to some extent. So... that's been clarified. :) Hooray for information! \0/

Thank you, this is getting confusing.

The further I've gone into this thread, the more convinced I am that the term "asexual" is being used in a way that is very misleading and confusing for folks who don't want or need sex.

And yes, I still contend that many people who lead zero sex lives would indeed like a space of their own, free of any sex talk or dissection about terminology, just to connect, chat, form new friendships, even perhaps long-term committed relationships. As someone who is older and would like a companion, but without sex, I think such a forum would be great. Just not sure how many older people are going to actually step out and get involved because I believe they may be far more hesistant than younger adults, especially older males who think admitting a lack of sexual interest would be a strike against their manhood.

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thisforumisstupid

Asexuality is a relatively recent addition to recognised sexualities so it's bound to bring some confusion. Sexuality is a very difficult thing to pin down and we categorise to seek understanding of ourselves and find comfort in belonging. Perhaps we shouldn't categorise sexuality, but society does so we oblige.

I get that it may not be exactly how you want it but no one is here just to fool around. We're all here because we're trying to come to terms with who we are and maybe need to talk openly to better understand ourselves. It may be that some people here will categorise themselves as something different next year, realising that they weren't asexual. I don't think we should be hostile towards these people. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have reached your understanding quicker than them.

To clarify, I've not been hostile to anyone . . . just to get that out of the way.

I know there are all kinds of gray areas of sexuality . . . but honestly, having no sexual interest, desire, or need is pretty simple.

And that's why I think the term "asexual" is being used incorrectly . . . my take (and I'm sure many others) is that asexual is no sex, nothing, nada, in any way, shape, form, or manner . . . mind and body.

Lastly, I can understand why someone might have to "come to terms" with being gay or transgendered due to stigmas and all that . . . but I honestly do not know why anyone would need to "come to terms" with being non-sexual.

Just as I cannot fathom anyone "coming out" as an asexual. What does that even mean? And whose business would it be?

A gay person may have to tell family and friends at some point, if they hadn't already caught on, because that involves having a partner of the same gender and thus, the lifestyle is lived accordingly. But . . . someone who has no interest or need for sex and lives his or her life quietly and privately, yikes! why would they have to "come out"?

Talking about sex should not be censored by AVEN

-Kisa the Cat (speaking as somebody who is considering becoming a sex therapist)

I did not state the need for or suggest censorship.

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