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"Out of the closet"


ghoul

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Ok, so I'm just really curious about this, by this information I'm going to add, I would like someone to respond this question: Am I out of the closet? Now, I don't really like the idea, but I technically have to be out of the closet to start hrt, in a very obscure way, it's a bit hard to explain, but it's basically a part of the diagnosis and policies of the clinic I go to, it's besides the point.

Me and my psychiatrist have agreed that whenever I'm with him, I use my name, and that we're going to erase the male identity completely when I'm there, he also wants me to try the same with family and with friends. I've told my closest friends now what to call me, and my closest family. Would you say that this qualifies as out of the closet by itself? How far is "out of the closet" in your opinion? I'm not interested in any critique of the phrase, it's important that I get a straight out answer to my question, so please help me ;__;

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I would say so to an extent.

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I think "out of the closet" is as much a spectrum as anything else. You certainly have an arm and a leg out of the closet, to extend the analogy. I guess it's up to your therapist to decide if that fits whatever technical definition you need to satisfy in order to get the treatment... But if it were me, I'd give you a pat on the back and say well done, that's a huge step and I'm so happy you are doing so well :D

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Certified Cake Decorator

Personally for me, i was in the closet til i told my parents. Which means im in the closet....

But everything is relative! Being out could be just to friends and not family. It really just depends i think.

I'd count you as out if that's what you wanted.

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butterflydreams

Being "out" is kind of a misnomer. Can anyone ever be fully out? Heart's analogy and description of a spectrum is pretty on target I think. I hate to use such a hand-wavy concept, but you're out when you think you're out. Maybe you're only out to one person. Maybe ten. Maybe your whole town. Whenever you feel satisfied that you're "out", then you're out. I think that's what it comes down to. Your personal satisfaction with how "out" you are. It sounds like you've done a lot already. Are you satisfied with that? Do you feel you need to do more? I think this is why lots of people say that they're "out to the people who matter".

I'm not really sure how you would convince someone else that you were categorically "out of the closet". I mean, what do you have to do, get a notarized document signed by 20 or more people saying that they confirm you're out? If you told me, "hey, Hadley, I'm out! :)" I'd believe you without hesitation. If you're out enough to tell me that you are, then I'd call that categorically out enough :)

Either way, I hope you're able to take some pride in what you're doing. It sounds like it's been pretty tough, but you're hanging in there and asking for help, and moving forward. Good for you! :)

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Being "out" is kind of a misnomer. Can anyone ever be fully out? Heart's analogy and description of a spectrum is pretty on target I think. I hate to use such a hand-wavy concept, but you're out when you think you're out. Maybe you're only out to one person. Maybe ten. Maybe your whole town. Whenever you feel satisfied that you're "out", then you're out. I think that's what it comes down to. Your personal satisfaction with how "out" you are. It sounds like you've done a lot already. Are you satisfied with that? Do you feel you need to do more? I think this is why lots of people say that they're "out to the people who matter".

I'm not really sure how you would convince someone else that you were categorically "out of the closet". I mean, what do you have to do, get a notarized document signed by 20 or more people saying that they confirm you're out? If you told me, "hey, Hadley, I'm out! :)" I'd believe you without hesitation. If you're out enough to tell me that you are, then I'd call that categorically out enough :)

Either way, I hope you're able to take some pride in what you're doing. It sounds like it's been pretty tough, but you're hanging in there and asking for help, and moving forward. Good for you! :)

The thing is, I don't talk to people which aren't in my family nor are my friends, unless I actually have to. Anyone else knowing of anything is irrelevant, and could bring more problems than it's worth, for it's not worth anything. If this sort of stuff could get to the wrong people, I could even be in danger.. But it really does not matter much what I think as much as what they think, so I need more of a general impression of what "out" means. And it really pisses me off, because me just going around announcing things I wouldn't talk to from the start of seems more humiliating and dehumanizing than proving anything, due to it being forced onto me. And the thing is, if they'd not believe me right away, I would still say the exact same shit to my therapists in 20 years, me putting my life in danger on purpose won't change that, you know? And like, I have no one I don't know on facebook, so using that as an effective tool for announcements wouldn't even work. And there's like a thousand people going to my school, and 40 thousand people in my town... Like, how fucking far do they want me to go? And I do currently act and dress as I probably would after decades on hrt.. So I really don't understand what they're looking for. I've never been "closeted", I've never hid anything, and when stuff has been brought up, heck, I've even mentioned things without it being relevant or brought up.... What the fuck is wrong with these people?

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Random Happenstance

Perhaps the first step is to figure out the purpose of coming out in relation to having hormones. Is it to determine your comfort with being seen as a woman, or other people's comfort with you presenting as one? Either way I'd suggest you've done enough to prove hormones aren't going to be the wrong decision at all. It sounds like (forgive me if I'm wrong) you're already consistantly presenting as female (so you're dealing with presenting yourself as female), and those that mean anything to you know (so you're being seen as female by them). There's no reason you shouldn't be sure of what you need at this point.

Maybe ask him why he wants you to be out, and demonstrate that your "outness" at the current time already achieves that end, if it's any of the above reasons, or any other that fits with what you're already doing.

Certainly, if he only asked you to try this with family and friends, then it sounds like, by telling them what to call you, you are cetainly out to them and have done what he asked of you.

Best of luck, and sorry if this isn't helpful at all ^^ There are so many hoops you have to jump through, and a lot of the time they don't make sense so it's not always possible to use logic to deal with them.

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At this point in time, this sounds more like a political question than a philosophical one. My best advice would be to get your therapist to give you something in writing about what the definition of "out" is. Ask for a checklist or strict definition with proper and precise descriptions of specific actions you need to take to be legally considered "out" enough to get the treatment. Then do whatever they want for a year, and get what you need in the therapy.

I think that, though we all agree that you are out, we aren't the ones in control of the hormones that you need. The best solution would probably be to ask directly, get it in writing so that in a year's time you can go back and say "I did it! Now gimme hormones.". If you have trouble interpreting the terms, or thinking of how to enact the terms, then we'd be happy to help any time! :cake:

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