Perpetual Virginity

[MoraDollie]

The concept of virginity in of itself is extremely confusing. We have oral sex, vaginal sex, anal sex, and then tantric/spiritual sex. If you do one, are you suddenly not a virgin any more? Does the sex have to be penetrative? Does the guy have to ejaculate for it to be "officially" deemed sex? Not to mention, a lot of studies are starting to come out that basically says, women who've been shamed into not having sex until their marriage night (for religious reasons, slut shaming reasons, whatever) have a MUCH higher chance of developing vaginismus (pelvic muscles tense up involuntarily making sex painful and/or impossible).

Not to mention, the Biblical concept of virginity basically meant a woman was to be nothing more than property to be passed on from her father to her future husband. I'm sorry, I'm more than a rock :l Some people theorize virginity was so important to men back then, because it was easier to see who was the baby daddy to who, since paternity tests really didn't exist back then.

[Guest]

Also the majority of society does view the two as linked.

I understand that which is why I said that I personally do not.

^exactly. Personally I don't see virginity as something that matters in the first place, nor do I equate it with purity in any way.

I'm just legitimately confused about what your definition of virginity is.

How are you confused?

Can you give me a definition of what you consider to be your virginity and how you can both:

1. lose it

2. get it back

This is my Spiritual definition.

Losing it: Viewing yourself as dirty for having sex, turning yourself into a sex object, being deceitful in your pursuit for more.

Getting it back: Realizing sex is natural, being yourself during sex, being honest in your pursuit for more.

Because virginity is seen as a wall tween purity and being deemed impure or deemed worst. I feel that by reclaiming purity/virginity while being sex-active is a good way of bringing it away from the realm of being bad to where it belongs, the realm of nature.

Also, since there seems to be debate on what physical virginity is,some insisting on the hetero-normative view and others with Panfics view. I tend not to have any reserves on that. Physical virginity for me personally is of no consequence.

Okay so after reading this, it seems to me like you're saying virginity is having self-respect and respect for others when it comes to sex, and ..erm.. non-virginity is not having self-respect and respect for others when it comes to sex (which obviously, having respect for oneself and others is 'good' and the opposite is definitely not so good).. but why use the word 'virgin' to describe these things when 'virgin' already has its own meanings? A virgin is someone not partaking in sex, who hasn't had sex.. not someone who is having respectful sex.. the word virgin has never meant that someone has respectful sex in the entire history of the word.. Regardless of how one interprets what virginity is (hymen breaking, having partnered sex for the first time, being 'pure and naive of sex', whatever) it has *never* entailed someone actually having sex, respectful sex or not..

[Wyrmcraft]

I think he/she was more going for the Purity aspect, and that by having that respect for yourself and your partner and the confidence to view yourself and what you are doing as acceptable; then you will always remain pure.

A confusing way to put it perhaps, but certainly an interesting idea.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Also the majority of society does view the two as linked.

I understand that which is why I said that I personally do not.

^exactly. Personally I don't see virginity as something that matters in the first place, nor do I equate it with purity in any way.

I'm just legitimately confused about what your definition of virginity is.

How are you confused?

Can you give me a definition of what you consider to be your virginity and how you can both:

1. lose it

2. get it back

This is my Spiritual definition.

Losing it: Viewing yourself as dirty for having sex, turning yourself into a sex object, being deceitful in your pursuit for more.

Getting it back: Realizing sex is natural, being yourself during sex, being honest in your pursuit for more.

Because virginity is seen as a wall tween purity and being deemed impure or deemed worst. I feel that by reclaiming purity/virginity while being sex-active is a good way of bringing it away from the realm of being bad to where it belongs, the realm of nature.

Also, since there seems to be debate on what physical virginity is,some insisting on the hetero-normative view and others with Panfics view. I tend not to have any reserves on that. Physical virginity for me personally is of no consequence.

Okay so after reading this, it seems to me like you're saying virginity is having self-respect and respect for others when it comes to sex, and ..erm.. non-virginity is not having self-respect and respect for others when it comes to sex (which obviously, having respect for oneself and others is 'good' and the opposite is definitely not so good).. but why use the word 'virgin' to describe these things when 'virgin' already has its own meanings? A virgin is someone not partaking in sex, who hasn't had sex.. not someone who is having respectful sex.. the word virgin has never meant that someone has respectful sex in the entire history of the word.. Regardless of how one interprets what virginity is (hymen breaking, having partnered sex for the first time, being 'pure and naive of sex', whatever) it has *never* entailed someone actually having sex, respectful sex or not..

My approach is spiritual. Like Kumo said in regards to physical virginity there is to much confusing(and has lost meaning to me) so I focus on the non physical because to me that has more baring to me on how the person deals with their sexuality. As it stand virginity and purity are one in the same, is the status quo and that is what I am working with.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

I think he/she was more going for the Purity aspect, and that by having that respect for yourself and your partner and the confidence to view yourself and what you are doing as acceptable; then you will always remain pure.

A confusing way to put it perhaps, but certainly an interesting idea.

Thank you.

[Guest]

Aaah I get it now! Seems that you're literally just making your own definition of virginity and applying that to yourself. So you are a virgin who does in fact, have sex. And while calling yourself a sexually active virgin, you are asserting that you are also more pure than other people who are less virginal than you, despite them maybe not being sexually active at all? Actually no, I don't think I'll ever wrap my head around this one.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Aaah I get it now! Seems that you're literally just making your own definition of virginity and applying that to yourself. So you are a virgin who does in fact, have sex. And while calling yourself a sexually active virgin, you are asserting that you are also more pure than other people who are less virginal than you, despite them maybe not being sexually active at all? Actually no, I don't think I'll ever wrap my head around this one.

Um no, no where do I say that. Im not putting myself on a pedestal, Im being sex positive. Im saying that just cause you have sex doesn't make you impure, rather your approach to it is what judges that. I see you made up your mind about me anyway without caring about my message.

[Ficulnean]

Well . . . this got . . .

PanFicto, Illuminatus is not talking about biological virginity. Notice that my very first post was me disagreeing with him on that count? So,a spiritual virginity, which perhaps would be easier to related back to biological sex but he doesn't because to him that is essentially meaningless, given that the biological issues related to it are arbitrary, in that the hymn canbreak in other ways. Maybe easier to relate back to the act of sex, if we use virginity in the biological sense; Illuminatus, as a biological, not spiritual,definition of virginity, does that work for you?

For the spiritual virginity thing, Ican see this only applying in terms of authentically building each new relationship, but other than that I'd whole-heartedly recomend the notion of spiritual purity you're using instead (@Illuminatus).

PanFicto; I read this as saying not to force yourself to conform to outside standards of your sexual behaviour. That allows for sex positive attitudes without forcing it on people. This is good.

If I misrepresented anybodies viewpoint . . . apologies, but I also think everyone knows I'm also just providing my read on it.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Well . . . this got . . .

PanFicto, Illuminatus is not talking about biological virginity. Notice that my very first post was me disagreeing with him on that count? So,a spiritual virginity, which perhaps would be easier to related back to biological sex but he doesn't because to him that is essentially meaningless, given that the biological issues related to it are arbitrary, in that the hymn canbreak in other ways. Maybe easier to relate back to the act of sex, if we use virginity in the biological sense; Illuminatus, as a biological, not spiritual,definition of virginity, does that work for you?

For the spiritual virginity thing, Ican see this only applying in terms of authentically building each new relationship, but other than that I'd whole-heartedly recomend the notion of spiritual purity you're using instead (@Illuminatus).

PanFicto; I read this as saying not to force yourself to conform to outside standards of your sexual behaviour. That allows for sex positive attitudes without forcing it on people. This is good.

If I misrepresented anybodies viewpoint . . . apologies, but I also think everyone knows I'm also just providing my read on it.

Yes that can work for me.

[Sally]

Physical virginity for me personally is of no consequence.

Then why are you talking about getting virginity "back" by no longer seeing sex as dirty? Because linking being sexually active and still getting virginity back means you obviously link it to physicality.

You could, you know, just alter your opinion toward sex and leave virginity out of it.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Physical virginity for me personally is of no consequence.

Then why are you talking about getting virginity "back" by no longer seeing sex as dirty? Because linking being sexually active and still getting virginity back means you obviously link it to physicality.

You could, you know, just alter your opinion toward sex and leave virginity out of it.

I think you've missed the point.

[Guest]

Nah. Virginity, to me, is completely defined by actions and anatomy. Attitudes and feelings play no part in it whatsoever... and thus, I see no neccessary connection between the biological/behavioral state of virginity (= not having had sex that involved your genitals - once lost, it's lost forever and cannot be regained) and the mental/emotional state of purity (which has nothing to do with whether or not you've had sex).

[Smmk]

I'm not sure I understand your point, but I don't think it is necessary to make a difference between 'pure' or 'impure' sex. Each to his own right?

[Guest]

All I have been saying is that linking virginity to purity is where this becomes ridiculous (for me anyway). Its nothing to with the 'biological sense' of virginity; I mean as a whole, saying you're a virgin for viewing sex in a better light, spiritual virgin or otherwise, is flawed.

Saying you're 'pure' I get (though I think that's also a little far-fetched: Are you pure in every single thing that you do, whatever that entails, or just 'sexually' pure? or what?) But linking virginity and purity and using them to mean the same thing, is just going straight back to the fact that the reason virginity has always been deemed 'pure' is because someone hasn't been sullied by the 'dirty act of sex yet'. You're saying "no no, it's about having sex in a way that isn't dirty, that is pure and natural" but who are you define what isn't dirty, what isn't pure and natural.?. I know people who love extreme fetishes like scat and water sports and practice those in sexual settings..so do they still count as pure spiritual virgins by your standards or are they less-pure just because they have what you may define as 'perversions'? .. I think if they are happy, enjoying what they do, and practicing it safely and with full consent, then that doesn't make their way of having sex any better or worse than anyone else's. It's just sex.

I'm sorry, but I have seen you call women who love sex and love talking about it 'sluts' which is why I took this whole post negatively from the get-go. I just can't fully accept that you have some notion of sex that makes people more pure and virginal, when you can call other people names like that purely because of their sexual practices. All I see here is that you are saying you are somehow more pure than those people, because your way of having sex is better. That's fine for you to think that, however, I personally have to disagree with it.

I think just because a woman might love having sex, love talking about it, and loves having sex with multiple people instead of just one partner, that doesn't necessarily make her 'dirtier' or any less ' spiritually virginal'(to use your terminology) than someone who also loves sex, but only enjoys it with one specific partner and doesn't openly talk about their sex life.. these are examples of two people who enjoy sex, practicing it in their own ways.. one is not better or worse than the other as long as no one is getting hurt in either case.

or are you saying that these so-called sluts that I saw you refer to in another post, are also pure and virginal by your standards as long as they are having sex in the most natural way *to them*?

Or do they have to have sex by your standards, in the same way that you have sex, before they can be assumed pure, spiritual virgins?

.. I'm sorry but having seen you use the word 'slut' before, to describe a woman who enjoys sex with lots of people and talks about sex alot, I just can't help but think that you see yourself as somehow better and more pure than people who just love sex for the sake of sex. Its all just sex, and it's not bad unless people are being hurt by it.. if everyone is happy, who are you to judge them or put yourself above them?

[JAKQ7111]

All I have been saying is that linking virginity to purity is where this becomes ridiculous (for me anyway). Its nothing to with the 'biological sense' of virginity; I mean as a whole, saying you're a virgin for viewing sex in a better light, spiritual virgin or otherwise, is flawed.

Saying you're 'pure' I get (though I think that's also a little far-fetched: Are you pure in every single thing that you do, whatever that entails, or just 'sexually' pure? or what?) But linking virginity and purity and using them to mean the same thing, is just going straight back to the fact that the reason virginity has always been deemed 'pure' is because someone hasn't been sullied by the 'dirty act of sex yet'. You're saying "no no, it's about having sex in a way that isn't dirty, that is pure and natural" but who are you define what isn't dirty, what isn't pure and natural.?. I know people who love extreme fetishes like scat and water sports and practice those in sexual settings..so do they still count as pure spiritual virgins by your standards or are they less-pure just because they have what you may define as 'perversions'? .. I think if they are happy, enjoying what they do, and practicing it safely and with full consent, then that doesn't make their way of having sex any better or worse than anyone else's. It's just sex.

I'm sorry, but I have seen you call women who love sex and love talking about it 'sluts' which is why I took this whole post negatively from the get-go. I just can't fully accept that you have some notion of sex that makes people more pure and virginal, when you can call other people names like that purely because of their sexual practices. All I see here is that you are saying you are somehow more pure than those people, because your way of having sex is better. That's fine for you to think that, however, I personally have to disagree with it.

I think just because a woman might love having sex, love talking about it, and loves having sex with multiple people instead of just one partner, that doesn't necessarily make her 'dirtier' or any less ' spiritually virginal'(to use your terminology) than someone who also loves sex, but only enjoys it with one specific partner and doesn't openly talk about their sex life.. these are examples of two people who enjoy sex, practicing it in their own ways.. one is not better or worse than the other as long as no one is getting hurt in either case.

or are you saying that these so-called sluts that I saw you refer to in another post, are also pure and virginal by your standards as long as they are having sex in the most natural way *to them*?

Or do they have to have sex by your standards, in the same way that you have sex, before they can be assumed pure, spiritual virgins?

.. I'm sorry but having seen you use the word 'slut' before, to describe a woman who enjoys sex with lots of people and talks about sex alot, I just can't help but think that you see yourself as somehow better and more pure than people who just love sex for the sake of sex. Its all just sex, and it's not bad unless people are being hurt by it.. if everyone is happy, who are you to judge them or put yourself above them?

That is not what the OP is saying at all. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The OP said that it is not people who have lots of sex and talk about sex a lot that are impure, contrary to what slut-shaming society would think, but it is the slut-shamers that are the impure ones.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Im starting to think that Panficto is only here to Strawman me.

[Guest]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

Nope, wrong again, I made it clear there that I was not sex shaming rather talking about people who have shown no sense of care for my personal boundaries and even make me feel unsafe around them. They so happen to use that title. But lets face fact you don't care about that, not once have ever tried to understand my point, all you do is misrepresent what Iv stated.

[JAKQ7111]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

Ah. That would explain the misunderstanding. As far as I know, this is the first time that Illuminatus has caught my eye, and so I am unaware of the original post. How long ago was that original thread/post made? Maybe Illuminatus had a change of heart? Otherwise, I have no idea.

[Ricecream-man]

My approach is spiritual. Like Kumo said in regards to physical virginity there is to much confusing(and has lost meaning to me) so I focus on the non physical because to me that has more baring to me on how the person deals with their sexuality. As it stand virginity and purity are one in the same, is the status quo and that is what I am working with.

YES! Finally a definition!

This makes a lot more sense now. I believe we can take the word virginity completely out of the picture at this point. For you they're one and the same, while for others they're distinct characteristics. As such, there is no need to include virginity the arguments in this situation.

So from what I've understood so far, you're stating that it's the purity of heart that matters. Whether or not you engage in sexual activity as long as your are comfortable with your sexuality then you can remain pure. Do I have that right?

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

My approach is spiritual. Like Kumo said in regards to physical virginity there is to much confusing(and has lost meaning to me) so I focus on the non physical because to me that has more baring to me on how the person deals with their sexuality. As it stand virginity and purity are one in the same, is the status quo and that is what I am working with.

YES! Finally a definition!

This makes a lot more sense now. I believe we can take the word virginity completely out of the picture at this point. For you they're one and the same, while for others they're distinct characteristics. As such, there is no need to include virginity the arguments in this situation.

So from what I've understood so far, you're stating that it's the purity of heart that matters. Whether or not you engage in sexual activity as long as your are comfortable with your sexuality then you can remain pure. Do I have that right?

Also that you are honest and considerate of your partner(s).

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

Ah. That would explain the misunderstanding. As far as I know, this is the first time that Illuminatus has caught my eye, and so I am unaware of the original post. How long ago was that original thread/post made? Maybe Illuminatus had a change of heart? Otherwise, I have no idea.

What that other tread boiled down to was people who disrespect boundaries of others and how they use certain titles.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/109461-slut-vs-prude-absurdity/

[Noky]

FYI,

From towards the end of intrauterine growth the hymen in girls is never fully open,

They obviously need it that way for menses to come out and it can open more, but it's not some kind of holy barrier preserved only in innocents.

As I was saying in my first post, I really don't see the point of defining purity for use in day to day living. The thought of doing that to compare yourself saying, hey I'm purer than you, or, thou art holier than me, sounds horrible.

At worst, it sounds like you just want something to make yourself look better than others as PanFicto was kinda saying, on the other extreme it can give you some serious self-hate and low self esteem, as you were saying, and just ultimately make you miserable.

I can't tell you to drop it, but I think it's an unhealthy practice.

And honestly, like I was saying in my first post, virginity only matters in terms of experience. I mean, if your guy/girl is a virgin, sex with them as someone who's experienced is more than likely going to be different until they get a feel for it, just like anything else people are inexperienced at.

[Smmk]

FYI,

From towards the end of intrauterine growth the hymen in girls is never fully open,

They obviously need it that way for menses to come out and it can open more, but it's not some kind of holy barrier preserved only in innocents.

As I was saying in my first post, I really don't see the point of defining purity for use in day to day living. The thought of doing that to compare yourself saying, hey I'm purer than you, or, thou art holier than me, sounds horrible.

At worst, it sounds like you just want something to make yourself look better than others as PanFicto was kinda saying, on the other extreme it can give you some serious self-hate and low self esteem, as you were saying, and just ultimately make you miserable.

I can't tell you to drop it, but I think it's an unhealthy practice.

And honestly, like I was saying in my first post, virginity only matters in terms of experience. I mean, if your guy/girl is a virgin, sex with them as someone who's experienced is more than likely going to be different until they get a feel for it, just like anything else people are inexperienced at.

I sort of agree with you on this. I don't think the OP was trying to offend anyone, but this 'pure' 'impure' thing can definitely be misinterpreted.

[Guest]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

Ah. That would explain the misunderstanding. As far as I know, this is the first time that Illuminatus has caught my eye, and so I am unaware of the original post. How long ago was that original thread/post made? Maybe Illuminatus had a change of heart? Otherwise, I have no idea.

What that other tread boiled down to was people who disrespect boundaries of others and how they use certain titles.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/109461-slut-vs-prude-absurdity/

IlluminatusX you still don't seem to get (as a few people pointed out in the thread that you linked) that calling a woman a slut because she has lots of sex and enjoys talking about it, is still using a derogatory name for her because of her sexual practices.. REGARDLESS of the reasons you had to be annoyed at said woman (ie she was/they were talking down to you for having less sex than they do.) As I pointed out in that thread, it's never okay to judge someone negatively for their sexual habits (which was being done to you) but it's also never okay to call someone a slut - which is in turn judging a woman for *her* sexual habits in exactly the same way that you are saying you don't want to be judged for yours!

It's sort of like if you had experienced racism from African-American people, and you started a thread called "N*****s are racist".. see how hypocritical that statement is due to your word usage? Then when someone pulled you up on your use of the N word you said "hey they call themselves that all the time, I wasn't being racist, just using their own words to describe them. Anyway they were mean to me, why are you pulling me up on my word usage?"

Slut is a derogatory name for a woman who has a lot of sex, and enjoys sex with multiple partners (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with if everyone involved in the situation is happy and having a good time, I'm fine with this, it's calling this woman a slut that I am not okay with).. and it just.. instantly annoyed me when I saw this thread, because all I can see is 'hypocrit' written all over it and that's aside from the fact that it does seem you are in a roundabout way trying to somehow put yourself above others whose sexual practices differ from your own. I guess that's why I've come off as much harsher in this thread, than I normally do when commenting in these forums. It just *really* annoys me when people call women sluts (especially on AVEN because I think that reflects badly on our community as a whole) ..And then for the same person to turn around and start a thread about sexual purity and 'perpetual virginity' and how someone is purer than others if they are true to themselves sexually etc? If I hadn't seen the thread about 'sluts being mean to you because of your sexual practices' that you made, I don't think I would have judged this thread so harshly. But as it stands, I did see that thread and so can't help but be offended by this one. Though I understand if no one else sees this thread that way.

EDIT: and that other thread was from 10 days ago.. I'm not digging up ancient history or anything here.

[Ricecream-man]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

Ah. That would explain the misunderstanding. As far as I know, this is the first time that Illuminatus has caught my eye, and so I am unaware of the original post. How long ago was that original thread/post made? Maybe Illuminatus had a change of heart? Otherwise, I have no idea.

What that other tread boiled down to was people who disrespect boundaries of others and how they use certain titles.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/109461-slut-vs-prude-absurdity/

IlluminatusX you still don't seem to get (as a few people pointed out in the thread that you linked) that calling a woman a slut because she has lots of sex and enjoys talking about it, is still using a derogatory name for her because of her sexual practices.. REGARDLESS of the reasons you had to be annoyed at said woman (ie she was/they were talking down to you for having less sex than they do.) As I pointed out in that thread, it's never okay to judge someone negatively for their sexual habits.

Idk, if she purposely goes people in monogamous relationships, I might judge her a little bit :P

[Guest]

@ Ricecream-man: does that make it okay at to come on AVEN and tell everyone about "this slut who was having a go at you for being monogamous"? You can disagree with someone's opinions and actions without resorting to calling them derogatory names, it's not hard.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Just because someone (strongly) disagrees with you, does not mean they are somehow out to get you, IlluminatusX.

I think, JAKQ, you may have misread some parts of my last post. I was saying that (what you just referred to) *is* what I have seen the OP doing in another thread, which is another reason why I disagree with the premise of this entire thread. Calling someone a 'slut' for enjoying sex, and for enjoying talking about sex, *is* slut shaming. The OP's defence in that case was "they call themselves sluts I'm only calling them what they call themselves" or something along those lines. Which is why I took instant offense to this thread, as I made clear in my last comment.

Ah. That would explain the misunderstanding. As far as I know, this is the first time that Illuminatus has caught my eye, and so I am unaware of the original post. How long ago was that original thread/post made? Maybe Illuminatus had a change of heart? Otherwise, I have no idea.

What that other tread boiled down to was people who disrespect boundaries of others and how they use certain titles.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/109461-slut-vs-prude-absurdity/

IlluminatusX you still don't seem to get (as a few people pointed out in the thread that you linked) that calling a woman a slut because she has lots of sex and enjoys talking about it, is still using a derogatory name for her because of her sexual practices.. REGARDLESS of the reasons you had to be annoyed at said woman (ie she was/they were talking down to you for having less sex than they do.) As I pointed out in that thread, it's never okay to judge someone negatively for their sexual habits (which was being done to you) but it's also never okay to call someone a slut - which is in turn judging a woman for *her* sexual habits in exactly the same way that you are saying you don't want to be judged for yours!

It's sort of like if you had experienced racism from African-American people, and you started a thread called "N*****s are racist".. see how hypocritical that statement is due to your word usage? Then when someone pulled you up on your use of the N word you said "hey they call themselves that all the time, I wasn't being racist, just using their own words to describe them. Anyway they were mean to me, why are you pulling me up on my word usage?"

Slut is a derogatory name for a woman who has a lot of sex, and enjoys sex with multiple partners (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with if everyone involved in the situation is happy and having a good time, I'm fine with this, it's calling this woman a slut that I am not okay with).. and it just.. instantly annoyed me when I saw this thread, because all I can see is 'hypocrit' written all over it and that's aside from the fact that it does seem you are in a roundabout way trying to somehow put yourself above others whose sexual practices differ from your own. I guess that's why I've come off as much harsher in this thread, than I normally do when commenting in these forums. It just *really* annoys me when people call women sluts (especially on AVEN because I think that reflects badly on our community as a whole) ..And then for the same person to turn around and start a thread about sexual purity and 'perpetual virginity' and how someone is purer than others if they are true to themselves sexually etc? If I hadn't seen the thread about 'sluts being mean to you because of your sexual practices' that you made, I don't think I would have judged this thread so harshly. But as it stands, I did see that thread and so can't help but be offended by this one. Though I understand if no one else sees this thread that way.

EDIT: and that other thread was from 10 days ago.. I'm not digging up ancient history or anything here.

You see what You want to see, other people seem to have grasped my point in both threads. I don't call them sluts, they call themselves this, you want to get mad at someone ,get mad at them. I am not holding myself above others at all. I am being sex positive by saying having sex does not make you less pure. When referring to impure people I refer to cheaters, pressurers, and con artist, and anti-sex folk, you know, people who use their sexuality to harm people. But of course you would ignore that and make it out like im acting superior.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

In that other tread I made a point to label it Slut vs Prude ABSURDITY. I think its all absurd. That these self proclaim proud sluts and self proclaimed proud prudes don't respect other peoples sexuality. Context clues, I don't care for those words but they do. They say they want you out of their business ,then turn around and get in yours, and shaming you.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

To add on, I think it's bullshit that when you have sex, you are seen as losing something, something innocent, pure and sacred. I don't think you lose anything when you have sex. I think you lose something when you have a negative view sex and of yourself for doing it. I think you lose something when you use sex as a tool for harm rather than a tool for bonding. I don't think you lose anything when you have sex, but rather gain something like knowledge and experience.