Perpetual Virginity

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

I have this Idea of purity and virginity. That these are of the soul and not the body. That if you view sex as natural and you don't let it define you, that you are pure. That if you don't change who you are to get it, that when you sleep with someone as your true self, you are being pure. I believe that you can also get these back after losing them.

To me losing your virginity and becoming impure is about a person separating sex from nature, viewing the act as dirty and objectifying themselves(distorting who they really are) to have it and get more.

I believe that you can have sex and still be pure and even virginal.

This is how I have come to see this. What are your thoughts?

[Noky]

I don't think it matters that much really.

How you define yourself is indeed a crucial concept, but as people grow older and undergo various changes in their perspectives their opinions inevitably change, so it's something that you'll likely revise again and again overtime.

Currently what I feel about it is that it 'purity' and virginity and non-entities as far as I'm concerned, and I couldn't really care less about it in terms of expectations on how it affects my behaviour.

Purity for sure is definitely that way, virginity, I just define broadly as lack of sexual experience, I'm not exactly really picky, and I want to just drop it. But I'm still struggling with some anxiety, and part of what happens to me is whenever I start backing away from a potential partner part of what runs through my head is, 'hey, if they're not a virgin, then they're just gonna laugh at me being 22 and having no personal experience, so I might as well quit while I'm ahead"

It's a really ridiculous notion, but easier dropped in theory than in practice.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

I don't think it matters that much really.

How you define yourself is indeed a crucial concept, but as people grow older and undergo various changes in their perspectives their opinions inevitably change, so it's something that you'll likely revise again and again overtime.

Currently what I feel about it is that it 'purity' and virginity and non-entities as far as I'm concerned, and I couldn't really care less about it in terms of expectations on how it affects my behaviour.

Purity for sure is definitely that way, virginity, I just define broadly as lack of sexual experience, I'm not exactly really picky, and I want to just drop it. But I'm still struggling with some anxiety, and part of what happens to me is whenever I start backing away from a potential partner part of what runs through my head is, 'hey, if they're not a virgin, then they're just gonna laugh at me being 22 and having no personal experience, so I might as well quit while I'm ahead"

It's a really ridiculous notion, but easier dropped in theory than in practice.

I don't mind the notion, obviously, but I just see it all differently.

[Ficulnean]

As a notion of purity, sure, but as a notion of biological virginity, I have to side with definitional categories.

[Guest]

Pretty sure this should be in the Hot Box?. It seems like you're saying that the way you have sex is superior to the way other people have sex. that your way is somehow more pure and other people's way leaves them dirty and impure. Its just sex, it's all just sex. If two people enjoy and love sex, who's to say they are somehow less pure than say..you?

What, just because they are sexual and lust after each other's bodies, this makes them dirty if they have sex with each other?

I guess I'm just really not sure what you are even trying to say here, but whatever it is, it does come across as rather offensive.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Pretty sure this should be in the Hot Box?. It seems like you're saying that the way you have sex is superior to the way other people have sex. that your way is somehow more pure and other people's way leaves them dirty and impure. Its just sex, it's all just sex. If two people enjoy and love sex, who's to say they are somehow less pure than say..you?

What, just because they are sexual and lust after each other's bodies, this makes them dirty if they have sex with each other?

I guess I'm just really not sure what you are even trying to say here, but whatever it is, it does come across as rather offensive.

Dude, you are taking this way wrong. No where do I say such things. What I am saying is that sex is only impure when you see sex as impure and act as such. Sex being natural, I can't see sex in the impure way, so the sex I have would be pure. I think you are the one trying to find offense here. I wrote out how I felt with much detail which by the way you speak, you seemed to have ignored for the sake of being confrontational with me, and I think you are being unfair to me.

[JAKQ7111]

Pretty sure this should be in the Hot Box?. It seems like you're saying that the way you have sex is superior to the way other people have sex. that your way is somehow more pure and other people's way leaves them dirty and impure. Its just sex, it's all just sex. If two people enjoy and love sex, who's to say they are somehow less pure than say..you?

What, just because they are sexual and lust after each other's bodies, this makes them dirty if they have sex with each other?

I guess I'm just really not sure what you are even trying to say here, but whatever it is, it does come across as rather offensive.

Funny, that's not how I read this at all. I read this post as saying that sex/desire crosses into 'impure' territories when people start viewing others as sex objects, or demonize sex, themselves. It almost ties back into harassment culture and sex-negativity, more than anything else. If two people enjoy and love sex, they are not less pure, I think is what the OP was saying. Like, the people who do all of the slut-shaming are the truly impure ones, right? Of course, I could also be misreading this, so correct me if I"m wrong, OP.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

As a notion of purity, sure, but as a notion of biological virginity, I have to side with definitional categories.

I was talking terms of how the mainstream views virginity, not the scientific community, which are different.

Pretty sure this should be in the Hot Box?. It seems like you're saying that the way you have sex is superior to the way other people have sex. that your way is somehow more pure and other people's way leaves them dirty and impure. Its just sex, it's all just sex. If two people enjoy and love sex, who's to say they are somehow less pure than say..you?

What, just because they are sexual and lust after each other's bodies, this makes them dirty if they have sex with each other?

I guess I'm just really not sure what you are even trying to say here, but whatever it is, it does come across as rather offensive.

Funny, that's not how I read this at all. I read this post as saying that sex/desire crosses into 'impure' territories when people start viewing others as sex objects, or demonize sex, themselves. It almost ties back into harassment culture and sex-negativity, more than anything else. If two people enjoy and love sex, they are not less pure, I think is what the OP was saying. Like, the people who do all of the slut-shaming are the truly impure ones, right? Of course, I could also be misreading this, so correct me if I"m wrong, OP.

Im glad you got it.

[Ficulnean]

As a notion of purity, sure, but as a notion of biological virginity, I have to side with definitional categories.

I was talking terms of how the mainstream views virginity, not the scientific community, which are different.

Oh, yeah. As a spiritual concept I'm really rather fond of what you've laid out, with the addition that purity can apply to other areas as well that aren't sexual, like how you treat others. Think nuns. So, as a concept of sexual purity, I quite like it. You may want to read up on existential notions of authenticity.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

As a notion of purity, sure, but as a notion of biological virginity, I have to side with definitional categories.

I was talking terms of how the mainstream views virginity, not the scientific community, which are different.

Oh, yeah. As a spiritual concept I'm really rather fond of what you've laid out, with the addition that purity can apply to other areas as well that aren't sexual, like how you treat others. Think nuns. So, as a concept of sexual purity, I quite like it. You may want to read up on existential notions of authenticity.

I shall look that up soon.

[Ficulnean]

As a notion of purity, sure, but as a notion of biological virginity, I have to side with definitional categories.

I was talking terms of how the mainstream views virginity, not the scientific community, which are different.

Oh, yeah. As a spiritual concept I'm really rather fond of what you've laid out, with the addition that purity can apply to other areas as well that aren't sexual, like how you treat others. Think nuns. So, as a concept of sexual purity, I quite like it. You may want to read up on existential notions of authenticity.

I shall look that up soon.

Go with Sarte, he has a nice hand-holding example. . . . Which you'll find some chapters into a really long book. . . . Find one with an index. Really, I see what you said as just providing an example of it.

People can have different views on sex, but as long as it's their view that they're true to , then they're being authentic. As an asexual, I'd have to debate having sex with someone after I was in a relationship (which I've never been in) because I can't beforehand say that I would or would not comrpmise, but whichever one feels right for me will be the one I'll have to stick with to be true to myself. Iff that covers what you mean (as a personal and singualr example) then it really is authenticity you're talking about . . . in my opinion, obviously.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

As a notion of purity, sure, but as a notion of biological virginity, I have to side with definitional categories.

I was talking terms of how the mainstream views virginity, not the scientific community, which are different.

Oh, yeah. As a spiritual concept I'm really rather fond of what you've laid out, with the addition that purity can apply to other areas as well that aren't sexual, like how you treat others. Think nuns. So, as a concept of sexual purity, I quite like it. You may want to read up on existential notions of authenticity.

I shall look that up soon.

Go with Sarte, he has a nice hand-holding example. . . . Which you'll find some chapters into a really long book. . . . Find one with an index. Really, I see what you said as just providing an example of it.

People can have different views on sex, but as long as it's their view that they're true to , then they're being authentic. As an asexual, I'd have to debate having sex with someone after I was in a relationship (which I've never been in) because I can't beforehand say that I would or would not comrpmise, but whichever one feels right for me will be the one I'll have to stick with to be true to myself. Iff that covers what you mean (as a personal and singualr example) then it really is authenticity you're talking about . . . in my opinion, obviously.

That is apart of it, I call it purity of the self.

[Amatista]

I get what you're trying to say. I don't believe that any soul is pure but literal virginity does not cause purity. I think that people with almost-pure souls are good in thoughts, words, and actions. I don't think that purity has anything to do with earthly desires. I see it as more spiritual. I agree that people who are honest and true to themselves are "pure" in a way, hopefully they do not lure someone in with a false personality.

I don't see sex as impure unless it is non consensual. I don't see it as pure either, when it is motivated by bad intentions. I don't really see sex as a big deal that you do with someone who love, because I don't view sex as a form of physical and emotional closeness. I value deep emotional connections and understanding, and I view sex as a purely physical act without the symbolic meaning behind it. I guess what I'm trying to say is sexuals can do what they do for whatever reason (lust, attraction, love, enjoyment, etc) as long as they don't hurt anyone in the process. But I think that sex should not just be something that naturally creates babies, it's something people do because they want to and they have control over their bodies.

I define purity differently from virginity, and I think virginity just means no sexual experience. I think they are two separate things.

[Guest]

I think it's just where you're confusing virgin and pure that got me. Someone who is a virgin is no more pure than someone who is not a virgin, the difference is only that the virgin hasn't had sex yet. The whole idea of virgins being "more pure" comes from the idea of sex being dirty and disgusting and once someone has had it (ie lost their virginity) they are tainted; this is obviously a very outdated concept.

I agree with Amatista, purity and virginity are different things.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

I get what you're trying to say. I don't believe that any soul is pure but literal virginity does not cause purity. I think that people with almost-pure souls are good in thoughts, words, and actions. I don't think that purity has anything to do with earthly desires. I see it as more spiritual. I agree that people who are honest and true to themselves are "pure" in a way, hopefully they do not lure someone in with a false personality.

I don't see sex as impure unless it is non consensual. I don't see it as pure either, when it is motivated by bad intentions. I don't really see sex as a big deal that you do with someone who love, because I don't view sex as a form of physical and emotional closeness. I value deep emotional connections and understanding, and I view sex as a purely physical act without the symbolic meaning behind it. I guess what I'm trying to say is sexuals can do what they do for whatever reason (lust, attraction, love, enjoyment, etc) as long as they don't hurt anyone in the process. But I think that sex should not just be something that naturally creates babies, it's something people do because they want to and they have control over their bodies.

I define purity differently from virginity, and I think virginity just means no sexual experience. I think they are two separate things.

To some virginity doesn't cause purity, but I take my stance from what Iv seen in the mainstream and through much introspection came to my own conclusion.

[Ricecream-man]

Well if we're going to go with this whole existential route of defining purity and impurity. What makes anything pure in the first place or vice versa? Is pure evil or pure lust or pure debauchery not still a form of purity?

As for virginity. If you're using the word in the context of a common secondary definition (A state of naive, inexperienced, or innocent of a subject) then yes. If you're talking it from a physical sense then no.

Illuminatus, can you further explain what you mean by staying a virgin post sex? I'm not sure how to tackle that issue seeing as it's been left so vague.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

I think it's just where you're confusing virgin and pure that got me. Someone who is a virgin is no more pure than someone who is not a virgin, the difference is only that the virgin hasn't had sex yet. The whole idea of virgins being "more pure" comes from the idea of sex being dirty and disgusting and once someone has had it (ie lost their virginity) they are tainted; this is obviously a very outdated concept.

I agree with Amatista, purity and virginity are different things.

No, Im not. I get this from the mainstream idea the virginity equals purity but with my own more spiritual take on it. I am saying that if you deeply believe and act like sex is a dirty thing then the sex you'll have is impure. However, if you view sex as it is, natural and you go about having it in a way where you don't objectify yourself or lie about yourself and don't think what your doing is dirty, then you are pure.

Well if we're going to go with this whole existential route of defining purity and impurity. What makes anything pure in the first place or vice versa? Is pure evil or pure lust or pure debauchery not still a form of purity?

As for virginity. If you're using the word in the context of a common secondary definition (A state of naive, inexperienced, or innocent of a subject) then yes. If you're talking it from a physical sense then no.

Illuminatus, can you further explain what you mean by staying a virgin post sex? I'm not sure how to tackle that issue seeing as it's been left so vague.

What I am saying is that I view a lose of purity as a spiritual thing not a bodily thing. That when you have a view of sex as dirty and you try to attain it by being deceitful or objectifying yourself, that is impure. However, it you see sex as natural and try to attain it by being yourself and a human that you are being pure. I don't think Im being vague though.

When I was younger and heard that you can lose your physical virginity via horseback or insertion of tampon, it stripped virginity of it's sexual context for me. I no longer held that specific value for virginity and had to figure out for myself what it all really meant for me. Which led me to carry the views I have now.

[Guest]

No that's breaking your hymen, which only happens to females. A biological male doesn't lose his virginity on horseback or by inserting a tampon does he? Because he has no hymen to break. Breaking/tearing a hymen and losing ones virginity are not the same thing, unless a females hymen tears DURING the first time she is having sex. Otherwise it's just a hymen tearing, it's not losing her virginity.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

No that's breaking your hymen, which only happens to females. A biological male doesn't lose his virginity on horseback or by inserting a tampon does he? Because he has no hymen to break. Breaking/tearing a hymen and losing ones virginity are not the same thing, unless a females hymen tears DURING the first time she is having sex. Otherwise it's just a hymen tearing, it's not losing her virginity.

Not everyone would agree with you, also if you are uncircumcised, the first time breaking through that opening at the tip is seen like the tearing of the hymen. Also you definition would probably be seen as problematic to some in the lesbian community.

[Guest]

No what I'm saying is losing ones virginity happens the first time you have sex with another person, regardless of their gender or your gender. It has nothing to do with one's hymen tearing or what happens to one's penis or anything of the sort. I had no hymen when I had sex for the first time (so no blood) many biological females don't these days (experience their hymen tearing or breaking the first time they have sex) that doesn't change the fact that I lost my virginity the first time I had sex with another person. Its not about the hymen.

"Otherwise it's just a hymen tearing it's not losing her virginity" by that I meant if her hymen tears when she's riding a horse, she hasn't lost her virginity. I didn't mean if she's having sex for the first time and her hymen doesn't tear, she hasn't lost her virginity (as this is what you seem to think I meant?)

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

No what I'm saying is losing ones virginity happens the first time you have sex with another person, regardless of their gender or your gender. It has nothing to do with one's hymen tearing or what happens to one's penis or anything of the sort. I had no hymen when I had sex for the first time (so no blood) many biological females don't these days (experience their hymen tearing or breaking the first time they have sex) that doesn't change the fact that I lost my virginity the first time I had sex with another person. Its not about the hymen.

The thing is, I see virginity as something outside the physical. When I was 13 I didn't genuinely feel like I was indeed a virgin do to my perversions. Despite losing my physical virginity years later, I currently feel like I got it back through a change in my perspective of sex and of myself. This is linked to that purity i was talking about. The more I learn about virginity the more I see that people don't really agree to what it is, so I found my own way.

[Ricecream-man]

Well if we're going to go with this whole existential route of defining purity and impurity. What makes anything pure in the first place or vice versa? Is pure evil or pure lust or pure debauchery not still a form of purity?

As for virginity. If you're using the word in the context of a common secondary definition (A state of naive, inexperienced, or innocent of a subject) then yes. If you're talking it from a physical sense then no.

Illuminatus, can you further explain what you mean by staying a virgin post sex? I'm not sure how to tackle that issue seeing as it's been left so vague.

What I am saying is that I view a lose of purity as a spiritual thing not a bodily thing. That when you have a view of sex as dirty and you try to attain it by being deceitful or objectifying yourself, that is impure. However, it you see sex as natural and try to attain it by being yourself and a human that you are being pure. I don't think Im being vague though.

I'm not talking about purity here. I understand what you're saying about that. I'm asking how you define virginity, and you haven't really explained that very well.

[Guest]

okay so you're a virgin who has sex? That's fine if you want to see virginity that way (EDIT: though I'm still not even exactly sure what you're saying a virgin is?) but most people don't. Most people see virginity as meaning someone hasn't yet had partnered sex with another person. I still feel like you're saying you're a dirty pervert if you have sex for reasons other than the ones you deem ideal, which is why you're linking virginity to purity but meh, whatever

[Ricecream-man]

^exactly. Personally I don't see virginity as something that matters in the first place, nor do I equate it with purity in any way.

I'm just legitimately confused about what your definition of virginity is.

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

okay so you're a virgin who has sex? That's fine if you want to see virginity that way but most people don't. Most people see virginity as meaning someone hasn't yet had partnered sex with another person. I still feel like you're saying you're a dirty pervert if you have sex for reasons other than the ones you deem ideal, which is why you're linking virginity to purity but meh, whatever

No, like I said my approach to sex is different then when I was 13 and felt that way. Physical virginity is of no consequence to me because there is so much argument over what that is, so to me its null. As for spiritual virginity, that is something I have defined here and I think is possible to get back. Also it seems like you are just writing me off.

^exactly. Personally I don't see virginity as something that matters in the first place, nor do I equate it with purity in any way.

I'm just legitimately confused about what your definition of virginity is.

How are you confused?

Also the majority of society does view the two as linked.

[Ricecream-man]

Also the majority of society does view the two as linked.

I understand that which is why I said that I personally do not.

^exactly. Personally I don't see virginity as something that matters in the first place, nor do I equate it with purity in any way.

I'm just legitimately confused about what your definition of virginity is.

How are you confused?

Can you give me a definition of what you consider to be your virginity and how you can both:

1. lose it

2. get it back

[Corretto]

As a 53 yr 'young' virgin...I don't feel particularly pure, spiritually or physically. I've simply feel I've headed-off down a little-used track.

In prepubesence; I didn't know what was ahead. During pubesence; I knew there was something ahead. During adolescence; I learned where my peers were heading, but I couldn't keep up.

Since then...I've never felt I had to catch-up with anyone or anything. I haven't 'lost' the race. I'm just on a different thread.

So for me...virginity is not something 'you lose'...it's more like something 'you choose'! Cia 8)

@IlluminatusX, Ricecream-man & PanFicto~Aotearoan..."sorry to butt-in!"

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Also the majority of society does view the two as linked.

I understand that which is why I said that I personally do not.

^exactly. Personally I don't see virginity as something that matters in the first place, nor do I equate it with purity in any way.

I'm just legitimately confused about what your definition of virginity is.

How are you confused?

Can you give me a definition of what you consider to be your virginity and how you can both:

1. lose it

2. get it back

This is my Spiritual definition.

Losing it: Viewing yourself as dirty for having sex, turning yourself into a sex object, being deceitful in your pursuit for more.

Getting it back: Realizing sex is natural, being yourself during sex, being honest in your pursuit for more.

Because virginity is seen as a wall tween purity and being deemed impure or deemed worst. I feel that by reclaiming purity/virginity while being sex-active is a good way of bringing it away from the realm of being bad to where it belongs, the realm of nature.

Also, since there seems to be debate on what physical virginity is,some insisting on the hetero-normative view and others with Panfics view. I tend not to have any reserves on that. Physical virginity for me personally is of no consequence.

I guess you can say my views are a sort of subversion of Western Society/The Church and its sex-shaming meets spiritual meditation.

[Ricecream-man]

Ahh so for you do you view virginity and purity the same way?

@Espresso, No need for apologies. You're the biggest winner out of all of us for knowing what you want :P

[Spectre/Ex/Machina]

Ahh so for you do you view virginity and purity the same way?

@Espresso, No need for apologies. You're the biggest winner out of all of us for knowing what you want :P

Same way as what?