Then what is sex really like?---recovering from trauma and need perspective.

[interpol]

All my life, here's what I've let myself believe about sex, men, relationships.

I've let myself believe humans are horrible people.
I've let myself believe anyone who has sex is a whore. A slut. A bitch. A person with problems. Unless they were married and then somehow it was still whorish and ugly and indecent and their fault, but it's better because you're married. Once you've had sex, something changes inside you; you've lost who you were before.
I've let myself believe the people who are supposed to stick by you will let you down the most, drive you crazy the most.
I've let myself believe that sex involves someone hurting the other while they cry and beg for it not to hurt (or if it's girl on girl they snitch and tell everyone that someone is lesbian.) That it involves ways of acting that you should never want to act as. That you have to be vulnerable and totally helpless and he has to be in control.
I've let myself believe pregnancy is the worst thing that could ever happen to a woman, and that if she didn't take the option of abortion, then it's her own fault if her child is terrible to her, gives her problems, gives her sicknesses in utero that could kill her. She deserves it.

None of that is helping me, and none of it is what I want to believe. It is based almost entirely on past experiences with abuse and harassment, and feeling vulnerable because of surgeries, and internalizing CRAP from everywhere.

So:
What is sex really like for those of you who have had it? Is any of what I said true?

[Wyrmcraft]

Well, I used to believe humans are horrible people. Now I believe that humans are generally decent and societies are horrible.

Regardless, you have no said anything that I would call truth. I used to think that people who had casual sex were bad people, and eventually I realized it was an odd kind of jealousy of mine that came from how easy those people found sexuality and being sexual. As a very private person, a very vulnerable person, and a grey sexual...I find getting to that stage very difficult and I wish it was that easy sometimes. Being sexual does not make you a bad person, nor does it somehow make you a whore or a slut. Sex can be romantic, intimate, or purely physical. All it is, is an experience and an activity involving two people. It does not need to hurt, it can feel rather good for both parties involved. It is by no way indecent, unless you happen to be doing it in public somewhere that public sex is considered indecency, and if you are comfortable with being naked then you should be comfortable with the idea of sex. It does not make you dirty, or filthy, or somehow worse or better. There is no magical feeling when you finish that makes you feel different, being a virgin is no different than not being one. It is rather like a birthday. It is an experience, but it does not feel like anything special. The sex could feel good, and you might enjoy it, but at the end of the day there is no feeling good or bad. Just like a birthday. At the end of it, you feel no older than the day before.

The people closest to you can hurt you the most, but they can also help you the most. I am very cautious with who I let close, because I know that by doing that they could hurt me. However, if you never let anyone close then no one can every help you either. I discovered that I needed other people, and because I needed them and their support more than I feared being hurt, I let people into my life. There have been ups and downs, people have made me smile and driven me crazy...but without them my life would have been utterly worthless. On the whole, the good outweighs the bad.

Sex is quite physical, and in a way it does leave you vulnerable even more so than having people in your life. It is a close activity, and unless you are comfortable with letting people that close to you physically and emotionally then it will be difficult to take sex casually. However, sex does not need to be casual. It can be loving, tender, intimate, and there is no reason it must hurt. The first time might if you are female, but with proper care and preparation it might hurt at all.

As a sub, there is no reason you would have no control as a female. I would be perfectly fine with being told when and how to do things, and male subs are not very uncommon. You could call the shots in the bedroom if you wanted, not total control unless he gives that to you, because these sorts of things are two way. Just like how a guy does not have total control in the bedroom unless you give it to him.

You do not need to act in ways you should never want to act, unless you despise the idea of physical pleasure or helping someone else feel good. Sex does not make you some kind of slave to your emotions, it does not dull your senses, and so what it brings out in you is what you let it bring out. It does not make you want to hurt people, or be hurt...what it makes you want is what you want. I am talking about mentally here, not physically. Physically sex does what it pleases to your body, we are animals after all. We cannot master our physical reactions, but we can decide not to act upon them. Remember, you are always in control of your own body. Nobody and nothing can make you act in any way you do not wish to act.

Having a baby is a beautiful thing, and while it can hurt people if it is not planned and proper care is not taken. We live in a world where proper medication allows for people to have very successful pregnancies. Abortion is an option on the table, but having a child is something special. The ability to teach and rear and grow someone in your own image, to carry on your legacy, to leave the world something beautiful to carry on where you left off. It also allows you someone to love, and someone to leave what you gained in life with. Wisdom, love, knowledge, possessions, likes and dislikes...and they will still be their own person who grows and changes and leaves their own imprint on life. Like writing part of a book and then having the rest written for you.

No mother deserves pain for the child she bears, and no one deserves pain for wanting sex, or having sex. No one deserves bad things to happen to them, there is no force laying down judgement upon people who have sex...or if there is the entire world has been damned since humanity was created so who cares?

Having sex can be a bad idea, it can hurt you, it can be a very poor life choice...but that does not mean it cannot be wonderful, pleasurable, or the best decision you ever made. It is a personal decision and like many things in life it must be considered carefully.

I didn't cover the lesbian thing, but that is silly because then the other person is admitting to being a lesbian so why would the rumors matter? If they were harmful they would harm both parties, regardless I promise that not all Lesbians kiss and tell.

That better, or do I need to go into more detail?

[The Wreyck]

Well, I've never had sex. I believe it is a sacred thing for marriage that bonds two people together. That's not to say that it can't be a more casual, pleasurable thing and still be good and okay for people. I simply personally cannot view sex that way. In general I'm a very sex positive person, though. Sex is a magical, bonding moment for most sexuals in the right place/time and with the right person. Or so I'm led to believe by the sexually active people in my life.

Now, I will say that I'm not a very good example because as sex positive as I am, I'm also sex-repulsed in personal situations. I find it hard for me to personally become involved in sexual situations. I'm terrified. Part of that terror is simply that I don't like the whole genitals thing and acknowledging them. Part of that terror is that acknowledging my vagina and allowing a man to insert his penis into involves acknowledging my female body in a much more intimate, concrete manner which creates a lot of gender dysphoria for my transmasculine identity. And the biggest part of my terror comes from the whole state of vulnerability. The vulnerability is very hard, because sex does require a high level of vulnerability for both parties, but I think especially so for the female (or perhaps the sub male in a maleXmale situation). I don't like to be vulnerable in any way, but the vulnerability in sexual acts along with my other reasons for having aversion to sex (besides that I'm asexual) is certainly the hardest vulnerable situation for me to overcome. If I can overcome it, I'm sure that sex would be a beautiful thing. Vulnerability is not necessarily a bad thing. It can also equal trust in your partner, which is an amazing and wonderful thing I would say.

The people who are closest to you certainly have the most ability to let you down, but they don't always necessarily let you down the most, not unless you allow them to. I suppose for me I worked past that issue by removing my expectations of people. They couldn't let me down or disappoint me if I wasn't holding them to expectations or obligations in the first place. But at the same time there will always be some level of expectation in the trust that most people use to form relationships, so I understand that it cannot be entirely removed. But I do still think that the people closest to you will let you down in some way, shape, or form eventually, we can't escape that. But we can choose whether we allow that to hurt or ruin us and the relationship. We as humans all fail sometimes, and so we as humans can and ought to be understanding and accepting of that failure because we ourselves do it, too, and even to that person that we feel failed us. It's part of relationships, and it is part of what makes them so wonderful, the knowledge that it's okay to screw up without fear of being kicked to the curb or pushed away and rejected for it.

Pregnancy is... Well, some people love it, and some people abhor it, and many people are somewhere in between. But it can be a good thing, and a necessary thing to normal procreation. Many women want it, and even if they were not at the time planning it, they love that life and could never give it up given the option of abortion. They are ready and able to take on the responsibility of new life, or if they're not, they still could not bring themselves to kill the life inside of them, so they put them up for adoption. And there is nothing lowly or wrong with that course of action. The woman did what she wanted and felt was best for her and her situation.

I hope this helps at least a little bit.

[Sally]

I had a lot of years in sexual relationships, having sex to please my partners, and I found it very very boring. It wasn't horrible, it was just boring. I would have felt more interested doing the dishes or ironing or pulling weeds.

[WhenSummersGone]

I'm Demisexual so I did enjoy having sex with the last person I dated. I was sexually attracted to him at that point and I wanted to do it. It was so much better than casual sex because that emotional connection was there first. I don't have a good opinion on casual sex in general so I can't say much about that. In my experience though casual sex was meh, boring or repulsive.

[Corretto]

sally2...could try something new. Compromise! Having no experience with 'positions', I'd suggest you could try...

• a frothy, wet & warm experience...sex while you're washing the dishes.
• a very hot, scorching & screeching experience...sex while you're doing the ironing.
• an outdoor, au naturale experience...having-it-off while you're weeding the garden.

What actual positions you adopt...I'll leave up to you and your partner. Compromise...everyone's a winner? Cia

[romantic-woman]

wow!!!

I guess this happens to many people as a result of pressure.

Some of us can't really stand all this

I never had sex though and sometimes i tend to go back on these thoughts when i see how much pressure i have from society

I also can't understand how it feels cause i never felt this urge to do it, something keeps me away , that is why i have a type of sex repulsion.

Many details also frighten me and make me sad :/

I have also seen many (sexual) friends who were sad or feeling vulnerable when they tried it.

Maybe it is related to the way any of us feels and if you don't want it , it is weird to understand others.

[interpol]

I'm Demisexual so I did enjoy having sex with the last person I dated. I was sexually attracted to him at that point and I wanted to do it. It was so much better than casual sex because that emotional connection was there first. I don't have a good opinion on casual sex in general so I can't say much about that. In my experience though casual sex was meh, boring or repulsive.

Well, I don't really consider "demisexual" as anything but normal XD. I do not reference casual sex, but relationship-sex. Any of it is absolutely horrifying to me largely because of the consequences, which were EXTREMELY STRESSED in my seventh grade year. I have literally not been able to get the words out of my head that I heard from my seventh grade teacher, "You know, every single one of you are consequences of your parents; they sinned with each other to make you, and I want you to think about that and sit with it right now." (She was fresh out of college.) My parents have told me that within marriage is not a bad thing, to no avail on my part. I want to believe that it's okay if you love them, but the horrible crap keeps popping back into my head, because somehow it's still sex.

[Guest]

if you believe sex involves one person hurting another, while the other is crying and begging for it not to hurt (rape) then how does that make the woman who it's happening to a whore or a slut? (supposing it is the woman crying and begging: ie being raped) and abortions can be extremely traumatic, which is just one reason why many women don't get them. if a woman has become pregnant by being raped (as you seem to have thought rape is the only kind of sex there is) why does that make her wrong for not getting an abortion? She didn't choose to become pregnant,but that doesn't mean she should be forced to choose something that could result in her feeling a lifetime of pain and guilt over the termination of a human life (depending on her beliefs of course) ..I'm so confused by all your logic there. Anyway, glad you are trying to find a new perspective now.

As someone who does find sex extremely painful, who has two children as a result of coercion by my ex of 5 years, and who has been sexually abused, I found all of your initial post very triggering. This sort of thing strongly requires a trigger warning, just to let you know for future reference, because it has the potential to be hurtful to other people and triggering of their past trauma experiences.

[Sally]

Espresso, I wasn't asking for advice. I'm an asexual, have been all my life, and know very well what sex feels like to me because I had it for 35+ years, so I'm pretty versed on compromise. Re having sex while you're ironing, try it and report back, when your burns have healed. :P

[Guest]

I had a lot of years in sexual relationships, having sex to please my partners, and I found it very very boring. It wasn't horrible, it was just boring. I would have felt more interested doing the dishes or ironing or pulling weeds.

Pretty much how I feel about sex. Though, I still do it like other chores. Perhaps one day it will become too boring to continue. But, for now, it's tolerable.

[Wyrmcraft]

Honestly, inside or outside of a relationship, it is not that bad of a thing. If it was, then every human from the very first would be damned already. Depending on what religion you believe in, this is either debated, reconciled, or otherwise covered but basically the idea your teacher told you is insane. If sex was completely forbidden, taboo, hurtful, or otherwise sinful we would have died out as a species or be entirely damned since the dawn of human kind along with every other living being on the entire planet.

The very idea is preposterous and it sounds like you need some help to get whatever senseless driveling dogma you got rooted out of your head. I would suggest a therapist in that case, I remember reading a few other cases of this sort of thing popping up due to over-enthusiastic "Health" Teachers (AKA: Psychotic Dogmatic Terrible Excuses for Human Beings) who decided that terror was the best policy. They are the type of people who make me a touch sick and so I will leave off here before I say something truly offensive about the questionable worth of Health Teachers.

[Corretto]

Espresso, I wasn't asking for advice. I'm an asexual, have been all my life, and know very well what sex feels like to me because I had it for 35+ years, so I'm pretty versed on compromise. Re having sex while you're ironing, try it and report back, when your burns have healed. :P

Sensing a hint of agro [*thinking of excuses*]...I was just trying to inject a bit of humour into a heavy thread. As many are well aware; it's my forte...it's the only thing I'm experienced at in these forums.

As for your suggestion re the ironing-board...I wouldn't have a clue how to 'do it'! I'm 53 and never had a kiss or cuddle...let alone sex!

I'm also fairly naive about ironing...most of my clothes are permanent-pressed! Cia :redface:

[Aisntllecxtual]

Wyrmcraft, you made an "interesting" comment above when you stated "if you are comfortable with being naked then you should be comfortable with having sex." i don't agree. I go to bed naked and walk around naked in the privacy of my home when it is warm enough, but I am not comfortable with having, nor do I desire to have sex. Now from the lighter (physically and figuratively :lol:) to the horrifically heavy...

I can relate to the utter boredom that comes from having sex, but, for me, it is significantly more than that, and this "more" goes to interpol's deeply disquieting post (thanks for sharing), and PanFicto~Aotearoan's own tragic past (I am deeply sorry about what happened to you :( and I agree with you the post warrants a trigger warning.)

I am surrounded with an aura of fear, a sense that what is happening here (sex) is at root coercive, anger, a feeling of loss of control that comes from total passivity, as being in a death-like state: aversive manifestations to the act of sex. It is both apparent and hard for me to identify why I feel this way. What is clear is that I have crossed the Rubicon upon which return to comparative innocence is impossible - having been on the receiving coercive end of an act that should be consensual and tender - the underside of reality personally revealed, simultaneously being sadly tragically skewed/poisoned by the dark side of experience. What is more obscure are the complex interactions/motivation(s) that led to the other side of the river. I have been asexual from the beginning of my life I believe, but how people react to what is intrinsic to me, well, that doesn't have to do with nature but social conditioning. I wish desperately to swim back to the sunny side, but, perversely, I have no regrets as to my present station. My experience has made me who I am today - with all my goodness, faults of behavior and thinking - and I like myself. I must make the best of it and turn/spin the churning distrust and animosity within I now hold into the gold of contentment and wisdom - how, I do not know, but I must if I am to live a happy healthy life.

[Sally]

Ooops, Espresso, I completely overlooked the humor in your suggestions. Sorry!

[ithaca]

Sex can be wonderful if you are with someone you love, someone who loves you, cares for your feelings and respects your boundaries. All of these things are different and each one has proven very important to me.

[Goober]

If sex is your thing it can be wonderful for you if it is with the right person. In my personal experience it was not. I was coerced/forced multiple times with my ex because he was an emotionally abusive bastard. But from other people I know, their sexuality with their partner/s were positive and brought them together emotionally and 'spiritually' in some cases.

If you'd try it again in the future, you make that about you. You tell whoever your next partner is that this is your time, that you decide when where and how and if they disagree then they're not the right one. You make it safe for you to express yourself, you make it how it should have been the first time for you and accept nothing less. And if they can do this for you, they're worth holding onto because they will be able to understand you on a deeper level than just satisfying a physical desire.

If you don't, at least know that what you experienced is not the norm and that it is not always shame and pain. Time heals wounds, and if you let yourself heal from the pain left over from everything you have experienced you'll learn to trust people again and know that not everyone is like the person who hurt you. I've started doing that myself, and while I'm not interested in finding out of sex is really as great as my sexual friends say it is, I can be comforted knowing that I won't allow myself to be hurt like that again. I'll do all I can to ensure that does not happen.

[Amedot]

My relationship with sex is complicated. Due to past experiences, I have constant anxiety I am not "good enough" in all aspects of life, but especially sex. Not attractive enough, body doesn't respond the right away, I can't allow certain things to happen without freaking out, I can't perform many actions... If I allow you to give me sexual pleasure, I'm basically telling you I trust you more than the world... and if that's not enough for someone, I feel used and sometimes broken. Often, me receiving isn't enough... I am expected to give. Often I feel I can't give sexual pleasure, I can only allow someone to take sexual pleasure from me. It's a very dismal and gloomy thing to think about.

I find that sex really bonds me to a person. I develop a stronger relationship with them because of it. I develop stronger loyalty to that person, and will take greater efforts to please them in many aspects of life, including sex, but also more important things. I like being appreciated... I like it when someone is appreciating my body and is genuinely happy they have the privilege to explore my body, because I feel the same way when I'm with them. When these feelings aren't mutual, or worse... when they are disappointed or displeased because I wasn't "good enough" I fall into a cycle of anxiety and self doubt and self hatred. I'm very vulnerable.

[Amedot]

if you are comfortable with being naked then you should be comfortable with the idea of sex

Noooo. Wrong. I'm often very comfortable naked with people I trust, but just because I consent to being naked around someone doesn't mean I'm consenting to engage in sexual behavior! No "shoulds" about it.

[Wyrmcraft]

Guess next time someone needs help I just won't bloody post.

[Sally]

Guess next time someone needs help I just won't bloody post.

People often disagree with each other, about advice as well as other things.

[deleted_account]

I find any sexual activity, intercourse, kissing, or even just cybersex, makes me feel closer to the person I'm engaging with. I know it usually means more to me than it means to them, and I know most would see this as a defect or a sign of psychological immaturity. I feel the world is more comfortable with casual sex than emotional intimacy, and this puts me in a position where I feel I must either numb my emotions in order to get by, or just stay out of the game entirely. I don't know how people can meet in public and after only a short time (minutes) decide sex is what they want and just go from there. I have seen it happen and it disturbs me. I've been on dates and have had one-night stands but I would rather fall in love and take things really really slow.

Your views on sex are your own, and I am not in a place where I can say you are incorrect. If it's true for you, then it's true. You have every right to your emotions. But it seems to me you've gone through a lot and want a change of perspective, to be assured that people are good and that sex is healthy. I don't know what to do to help but I recommend you try therapy. There are support groups for people who have been assaulted, if that's something you need. Sometimes it helps to get help offline, because as supportive as a place like AVEN is, there is only so much we can do from here. I hope you're in a place where you feel safe and I hope you can get the help you need.

[Amedot]

Guess next time someone needs help I just won't bloody post.

Your post was fantastic; it was that one line I had to point out. Consenting to sex consents to sex... consenting to being naked doesn't consent to having sex. it's really important to stress this, because if I agreed to cuddle naked with a sexual partner and they proceeded to have sex... It wouldn't be having sex, they would be raping me. There's a lot of sexual coercion and even rape in asexual/sexual relationships (actually, in ALL relationships, but I suspect higher in asexual/sexual relationships and that it's under documented).

I'm happy to see you here at AVEN and I like reading your posts. It wasn't my intention to upset you.

[Guest]

Consenting to sex consents to sex... consenting to being naked doesn't consent to having sex. it's really important to stress this, because if I agreed to cuddle naked with a sexual partner and they proceeded to have sex... It wouldn't be having sex, they would be raping me.

Indeed, and it actually goes the other way around too, btw. I can see myself consenting (in theory, as far as meatspace is concernded; in practice, I've only done so virtually, over chat and phone) to one specific form of sex, but I certainly can't see myself consenting to being naked while doing so. If I can't keep my pants on during it, it simply won't happen - the only person for whom I'd drop them would be a doctor in case of medical need, not a partner.

Sex and nudity are two separate things... just like sex and romance, they're connected for many folks, but they're definitely not inseparable.

[Wyrmcraft]

Sorry Salogma, you are of course correct and that sentence was the result of me rambling at 2:00am to try and help someone. Nakedness and sexuality are different for most people. For myself, they are almost the same thing. Basically I am super weird about being naked and so if I am comfortable being naked around someone I am comfortable enough for *nearly* anything. I need to remember when giving advice that while pooling from my own life is useful not everyone is programmed the same way.

I tend to view criticism poorly, not because I think I am always right but because I tend to take it personally. Probably all the years of being bullied, I got really defensive and it has never really worn off. Especially when I am under the weather.

Sorry, just the wrong thing at the wrong time.

[interpol]

For everyone who recommended therapy, I've been in therapy for the past year. It's helping, but it's not easy to let go of something so awful.

[Aisntllecxtual]

I think I can relate, empathize, with you interpol despite the chasm that is our gender. I was in therapy. I would like to go back but my present situation isn't conducive to returning unfortunately. I can imagine It is not easy to overcome such horrific violation - what happened to you. I am sure, what you have experienced has been far more traumatic than what I have experienced, must be difficult to endure in process of therapeutically coming to terms. I wish you all the best in trying to heal the wounds that were inflicted upon you.

[ellastokes]

I haven't done it yet, but I don't think it changes you. To me personally, sex is like a carnival ride or something. It's fun and interesting and in general is something that makes you giddy with wanting to try things. It's also rather exploration and intellectual, so perhaps like a museum...but full of interesting stuff. I also feel like the people deserve the utmost respect at all times, otherwise it's not fun and a very big point is missed -- and that's the satisfaction one gets from pleasing them and the emotional bond that comes with that and making them happy. I also feel like sex is a v/ personal and privet thing. Like I don't understand why people would display that on the big screen, and I DO NOT ever want to know what other people have going on in their personal lives....like urgh...no please don't tell me. Only the ones there need to know.

I think you should do whatever makes you happy, btw. Like...if it would make you happy to change your perspective, then I support that. But if you're happy never having anything to do with sex, then that'd be okay, too. There are a lot of sex-repulsed people at AVEN and they're all accepted and their feelings are respected.

[interpol]

Hi guys,

I've begun my own blog as I begin to put together the pieces of what I truly believe about sex and moving past the trauma.

Comments for the most part have been helpful on this thread. I'm still in the process of deciding whether or not a relationship, romance, sex, marriage, children etc. are something I want as a part of my life, or something I would have wanted if I had grown up in a healthy environment.

I'm not sure about a carnival ride; that's a carnival ride that could give you cooties and babies. But I can see it bonding and okay in a healthy relationship. The question I face is whether I can have a healthy relationship, and whether, because I don't know what is normal apparently, how I should act and what I can do for mutual consent on my own part should I choose to engage. What is and isn't bad behavior. What is and isn't the way I should go.

My therapist and I are going to work on this, or at least try to, for the remainder of the time I have in my degree program---which isn't much longer. Here's to hoping.