I feel like a slave or a pet when interacting with females.

[Lamp]

Hello,

Today I was wondering about something that's been deeply troubling me. I've noticed from birth any form of interactions with females leads to a form of enslavement. What I mean by this is that young boys start acting in ways that gain female attention. For some boys they become more aggressive or bullies because at a young age that makes him look like the dominant alpha male. Sadly things don't seem to change when you get older. I still see men conforming to instinctual traits in order to attract females.

The problem I've had all my life is that I'm genderless mentally. I still have the instinctual drive to be with a female but my my mind has no desire to conform to that which attracts females. People say love will find its way but that's moronic. Love is merely chemical reactions period. Certain chemicals are released when both genders act according to instinctual traits.

My other problem is that no matter what a male body entity does he/it must conform to ta certain standard even if he wishes to talk to females. In many women's eyes you are an omega male if you don't fit the mold of the social ideal male. Even worse is that other male body entities will hurt you for being different because at a young age it's females that rewarded the badboys for being bad.

I really do feel like a tool when interacting with females body entities. You really do have to put on a mask like a sociopath just to even get them remotely interested in you.

[Rising Sun]

If you put on a sociopath mask, you will only attract the worst girls. If you want to be attractive for a nice girl, you need to be a nice person.

And the fact that you reduce love to hormones without any subjective experience makes you sound like a machine, which isn't attractive at all. Plus, that alpha male story is a myth spread on incel forums by misogynistic men. We aren't supposed to act like beasts, and even in many animal species, attraction and love are much more complicated than the alpha male stereotype.

[Zapstileon]

A part of me so wants to contradict you and say "That's not true for all females!" but then, I reconsider because I don't actually think like one. At all. Despite my body, I think largely like a male, and I think I have sometimes been guilty of adapting my behaviour a lot in order to function in the company of female friends. I guess I prefer males for that reason. They don't seem to care how I act the way females seem to. I don't know. But *body entities* means people inhabiting a certain body. A *female body entity* does not have to be a cis-female, and should therefore not force you to adapt your behaviour. I always thought that all you had to do was talk to people to get their attention. Unless they were alpha females. Those are hard. Those expect you to look and act a certain way. But I tend to ignore those anyway.

As for the alpha male concept, I've said it before and I'll say it again. We have to stop encouraging people (male or female) to act like dicks. Males especially seem to face this problem. "Be a man!" "Man up!" etc. It needs to stop. All it does is make everyone on edge and uncomfortable.

On the hormone part, yes, what people describe as 'love at first sight' can be reduced to hormones. But beyond that, I think a relationship is not just hormones. Hormones and chemicals are the tingly parts that you get sometimes. I don't think that has to, or in any way should, be the core of your relationship. Love can be a deeper connection than just chemical reactions.

[Exanimis]

Well, I will be pretty honest here.

I was trying to come up with a counter argument to your opinion but it is quite hard to disagree with it.

There is only one cavil there.

You are disregarding a lot of contexts and variables, I will bash on it because I think that all you said makes sense and I have a deep seated resentment against these "alpha-male" thingy and all that related shit (thanks society).

1. You are disregarding subjectivity.

Some women might like the dipshit-male stereotype, because by their interest, it might bring something that they value or, are after.

Most of these guys tend to be dipshits (who could've known) because they are after exactly what these girls are after too (I guess yall can figure out what it is).

2. The alpha-male stereotype is something that is encouraged (more like forced) into you depending on the environment, like say, your circle of friends is composed only of men, so with the available options, girls are going to choose the one who stands out the most according to their set of standards. And mostly, we tend to forget this part, the pressure on the girl tends to be as high as the pressure on the boys, so the girls are going to go after the "alpha males" sometimes also because they are pressured into doing so.

Please note that I am using gross terms and over-simplified hypothetical situations here.

3. After some time, women, and men as well, tend to look for something different from that "shallow standard" that is the dipshit and the alpha male.

They tend to look for companions, friends, lovers, not only something that is going to suffice their needs by that time but, a person with whom they can share interests and such.

In the end it is all relative and we should always consider subjectivity.

The fact that this community exists is the perfect example that people are different. ;)

Hugs.

[Lamp]

I have to kindly disagree with a few points being made by you guys. How we humans function is based on our biology and less on social constructs. A perfect example is when a woman may say she likes tall men. The reason she likes tall men is because it makes her feel protected. That right there is instinctual programming limiting our freewill. Matter of fact most of the traits women like in men are expendable and dominant traits.

1. Being tall = Feel protect = protect and or die for her = male expendability

2. Income = her attraction increases based on his ability to provide

3. Body mass = Again she gets the feeling of protection = expendable male

4. His social skills = She'll judge him based of how dominant he is in groups

5. Lastly his status.= She will judge him based on his job, friends, and rank in life.

Men also instinctively seek power because it will attract even pretty females. Most of what we do in life is based on reproductive instinct. That's why I feel like all interactions with females leads to male enslavement. He must always play the alpha male card if he wishes to be seen as attractive.

[The Great WTF]

I have been trying to put into words since last night how freaking uncomfortable this thread is making me. I still can't, but as a mod I do have to say something.

The amount of stereotyping and generalization I'm seeing in thread thread is alarming. I don't appreciate being reduced to a certain set of expected behaviors on the sole basis of owning a vagina. It is also dangerously close to violating the rule against sexist and bigoted content in AVEN's Terms of Serivce.

Please keep this in mind as this discussion continues.

The Great WTF

Asexual Relationships Moderator

[Guest]

Sometimes I find my self trying to hard. Trying anything in order to get attention when it comes to females. I am sure that not everyone does it but I do find my self trying very very hard to please a female. Then again I do the same with males. My personalities just want to please others.

[Guest]

I have to kindly disagree with a few points being made by you guys. How we humans function is based on our biology and less on social constructs. A perfect example is when a woman may say she likes tall men. The reason she likes tall men is because it makes her feel protected. That right there is instinctual programming limiting our freewill. Matter of fact most of the traits women like in men are expendable and dominant traits.

1. Being tall = Feel protect = protect and or die for her = male expendability

2. Income = her attraction increases based on his ability to provide

3. Body mass = Again she gets the feeling of protection = expendable male

4. His social skills = She'll judge him based of how dominant he is in groups

5. Lastly his status.= She will judge him based on his job, friends, and rank in life.

Men also instinctively seek power because it will attract even pretty females. Most of what we do in life is based on reproductive instinct. That's why I feel like all interactions with females leads to male enslavement. He must always play the alpha male card if he wishes to be seen as attractive.

This a very gross stereotype. I do not care if a man is tall or short. I do not care if he earns a lot of money or not (I have dated unemployed men). I do not care about body mass - I have dated obese guys, thin guys, muscular guys and guys who were so physically weak me PLAYING and barely putting any force into poking them was an "OW THAT HURT". I do not care about social skills, I am shy naturally and introverted and I have dated extroverts who are good in crowds and introverts who can't ever say anything right (which is adorable). And status, again, do not care whatsoever. Except for the status of "not a psychopathic killer" or "not a jerk".

Yes, SOME women like the alpha stereotype. But, then again, I know women who THOUGHT they liked it because that is what the media says and then found out those guys were jerks to them and don't like them. Just like some men like the stereotypical girly girl, doesn't mean all do.

Don't stereotype all people of a certain sex/gender. If you don't want to be a stereotype following societal gender roles, then don't. If anyone judges you for it, too bad for them. But, don't put all of us females into gender stereotypes just because you don't like yours. Not all of us are the stereotypical blonde cheerleader in TV shows/movies looking for the quarterback of the football team who is going to go on to be a politician and has family money and needs a wife to "pull the strings from the background". Plenty of us are just looking for a nice guy with similar interests. Some of us just want guys who can be friends without treating us that differently than anyone else, or wanting romantic/sexual relationships from the friendship.

[Rising Sun]

I have to kindly disagree with a few points being made by you guys. How we humans function is based on our biology and less on social constructs. A perfect example is when a woman may say she likes tall men. The reason she likes tall men is because it makes her feel protected. That right there is instinctual programming limiting our freewill. Matter of fact most of the traits women like in men are expendable and dominant traits.

1. Being tall = Feel protect = protect and or die for her = male expendability

2. Income = her attraction increases based on his ability to provide

3. Body mass = Again she gets the feeling of protection = expendable male

4. His social skills = She'll judge him based of how dominant he is in groups

5. Lastly his status.= She will judge him based on his job, friends, and rank in life.

Men also instinctively seek power because it will attract even pretty females. Most of what we do in life is based on reproductive instinct. That's why I feel like all interactions with females leads to male enslavement. He must always play the alpha male card if he wishes to be seen as attractive.

Please don't act as if you were an expert. You can read very stupid things on Internet. Being able to differentiate real science from BS is necessary on Internet.

[Guest]

I have to kindly disagree with a few points being made by you guys. How we humans function is based on our biology and less on social constructs. A perfect example is when a woman may say she likes tall men. The reason she likes tall men is because it makes her feel protected. That right there is instinctual programming limiting our freewill.

You know, I could use that same argument to claim that tastebuds limit our free will. We prefer certain foods based on taste. Therefore, if something tastes terrible, we usually won't want it. Therefore, it is instinctually programming that limits our freewill as well.

Also I like tall people because they can reach things and less likely to lead to me falling off a ladder.

[Guest]

Also I like tall people because they can reach things and less likely to lead to me falling off a ladder.

They are useful for that. My partner is barely taller than I am, so I just tell him to hold my legs when I need to get up on something to reach, that way if I fall, he can try to catch me. :lol: Would probably just end up dragging us both to the floor, but whatever.

[Phaetion]

@Lamp (My quote button isn't working for me for some reason; forgive me) I must respectfully disagree with the points you made. Not all men seek power; not all men seek to be dominant when seeking the attention of females. Writing most (insert gender here) into a stereotype is never a good idea. There are those who defy the stereotypes forcibly labeled onto them.

1. Being tall and the desire to protect a female is purely the choice of the male in question. Being tall is sometimes NOT a good thing. I'm 6"3', and I have my own issues with height. Protecting a female? If a man truly cared for/loved a certain female, I can see it happening. Otherwise? Forget it.

2. I'm sorry but finances do NOT come into this. What truly matters in the end is what is inside people, not their income or anything materialistic, regardless whether judgment is involved or not.

3. Social skills? Sure, I can see where this applies but to judge one for that? You might as well judge animals based on their behavior. Even the most anti-social person can be the most loyal person on the planet. Even a female would need to be loyal to a partner. It's a trust; a bond that ties them together. Negative qualities can be worked around, and lack of social skills is no exception.

4. Judgment based on their social status, rank, friends, etc., I'm sorry to say, is a very shallow approach. Again, it is not about money. It is not about what job you have. It is not about the friends you're surrounded by. It is about the heart. it is about what is inside the person that makes a couple love each other so very much.

Just know I did try my best to avoid offending anyone typing this. Stereotyping can be a rather sensitive subject, as it was mentioned indirectly. Males do not have any obligation to fulfill when finding a female. The obligations come AFTER they started dating. Money to take her places, a job to support yourself and, if it comes about perfectly, your loved one. Friends who you can turn to when things are down, and not stab you in the back. Communication is super important too, and that is where social skills are good. No communication? then it won't work. This is true for the reverse. Even females are subject that I have been mentioning above. What so-called 'obligations' men have to fulfill the females must do so as well. My whole comment can apply to the reverse as well.

[henshin]

Hello,

Today I was wondering about something that's been deeply troubling me. I've noticed from birth any form of interactions with females leads to a form of enslavement. What I mean by this is that young boys start acting in ways that gain female attention. For some boys they become more aggressive or bullies because at a young age that makes him look like the dominant alpha male. Sadly things don't seem to change when you get older. I still see men conforming to instinctual traits in order to attract females.

The problem I've had all my life is that I'm genderless mentally. I still have the instinctual drive to be with a female but my my mind has no desire to conform to that which attracts females. People say love will find its way but that's moronic. Love is merely chemical reactions period. Certain chemicals are released when both genders act according to instinctual traits.

My other problem is that no matter what a male body entity does he/it must conform to ta certain standard even if he wishes to talk to females. In many women's eyes you are an omega male if you don't fit the mold of the social ideal male. Even worse is that other male body entities will hurt you for being different because at a young age it's females that rewarded the badboys for being bad.

I really do feel like a tool when interacting with females body entities. You really do have to put on a mask like a sociopath just to even get them remotely interested in you.

Boy does this post (and some subsequent ones) reek of sexism and a complete lack of understanding of a lot of feminist theory.

To respond to the original post above:

1) "since birth"?! I'm sorry are you the only human being to every remember your birth? What a dumb statement.

2) female enslavement? this is so offensive. women do not enslave men into relationships or into acting in certain ways. Men and boys choose the way they behave based on a heady mix of hormones, genes and socialisation. The theory that 'alpha males' are the ones who are most masculine is a social norm enforced by other guys. Who do you think it is who teases boys when they cry or refuses to let their sons play with dolls? Who do you think makes getting a hot woman such an important social achievement,? Oh right, men. All human beings are complicit in reinforcing gender roles, some people fit well into those stereotypes and excel at being a typical boy or girl, I can count the people I've met like that one one hand. The vast majority of people are complex individuals, a large number of them do not give a shit about how stereotypically you fit with your gender.

3) the whole gender situation? not the fault of women. Some women latch on to powerful or wealthy men because they are denied the opportunity in our society to achieve that level of power in their own right. Guess what that is, institutional sexism.

4) it runs both ways sweetie, you think hot, athletic rich guys are falling over themselves to go out with unattractive geeky girls? Attractive successful people tend to date other attractive successful people.

5) the idea of instinctual traits being responsible for gender stereotypes is highly problematic and on very dodgy scientific ground

6) if you have this point of view, more likely its your deeply sexist world view that is putting women off, not your lack of alpha masculinity. You don't have to qualify as anything other than a human being to talk to your fellow human beings who happen to have vaginas.

7) Don't blame the social success of 'bad boys' on the girls that fancy them. People are complex creatures but social reinforcement for the way we behave comes from a wide variety of sources, not just the romantic intentions of a few women. The very idea that women are to blame for male social hierarchies is outrageous.

8 ) And finally, if every heterosexual guy who had ever talked to, dated, been in a relationship with, or had sex with a woman had to be an alpha male or a 'sociopath', then there would be a hell of a lot of single guys out there, but wait! in fact the majority of adult men function normally in society without being either of these things and still manage to form relationships with women.

Basically, stop listening to internet mens rights trolls, stop blaming women, stop thinking you have any right to women, go read some fucking basic feminism.

[Ficulnean]

Hello,

Today I was wondering about something that's been deeply troubling me. I've noticed from birth any form of interactions with females leads to a form of enslavement. What I mean by this is that young boys start acting in ways that gain female attention. For some boys they become more aggressive or bullies because at a young age that makes him look like the dominant alpha male. Sadly things don't seem to change when you get older. I still see men conforming to instinctual traits in order to attract females.

The problem I've had all my life is that I'm genderless mentally. I still have the instinctual drive to be with a female but my my mind has no desire to conform to that which attracts females. People say love will find its way but that's moronic. Love is merely chemical reactions period. Certain chemicals are released when both genders act according to instinctual traits.

My other problem is that no matter what a male body entity does he/it must conform to ta certain standard even if he wishes to talk to females. In many women's eyes you are an omega male if you don't fit the mold of the social ideal male. Even worse is that other male body entities will hurt you for being different because at a young age it's females that rewarded the badboys for being bad.

I really do feel like a tool when interacting with females body entities. You really do have to put on a mask like a sociopath just to even get them remotely interested in you.

I'm a female. I adapt my behaviour to be submissive more so to males because they unnerve me. Really, it's that both gender feel the effects of social enslavement.

Then, I forgegt myself with guys I get close to and start being assertive and joking and non-feminine. Since I don't know how to be feminine once people start taking a closer look, this isn't really an issue--if I cannot fix it, it is not an issue. It is a fact of life or a sad fact of life. If not something only you are forced to do, and everybody else has no pressure to play any social role.

The people I get along with most are guys. My best friend is not domineering. He's too antisocial for it (but, he is by mental health critera a little bit of a psychopath: I really think you're conflating the term though with purposefully bad, and so don't take this as supporting you). The other guy I get along with relates to all my social anxiety, but also how confidently I want to manage it in my life. Also, we share control of conversations. I certainly don't see him as omega for not being alpha. I see pure alpha behaviour as stupid, in fact. Because then you'll never be able to deal with someone disagreeing with you, and unless you're perfect to begin with that is a horrid life approach.

Have you seen the intellegent males who show it? This is just fine. No need to go and be something extreme.

I suppose though, that since I'm a women I'm only going to be happy if you go and assert yourself by disagreeing with everything I'm saying.

(Sorry if this last seems a bit rude, but really, you're free to disagree with me. And I'll like it.)

In short, I'm seconding the post above mine. With both hands.

[henster]

I see very many offended persons in this post, going You are wrong! I am not like this at all and I am a woman! People...don't take it personally. No one says you are.

It is human to generalize, because humans need to categorize, that is how we make sense of the world and the chaos around us. Everyone also knows, that everything won't fit into a category, but that is implied in the word "generalization". It is a model, a sample, not representative for everyone.

Also, everyone's experience of the world is different, our differences in opinion are to some extent based on our different experiences of the world, and people of course generalize after their own experiences, and something that one person feel is "generally true" may not be shared by the next person. So, assume that the person who is writing something, is writing the truth, from their point of view.

[Ficulnean]

I see very many offended persons in this post, going You are wrong! I am not like this at all and I am a woman! People...don't take it personally. No one says you are.

It is human to generalize, because humans need to categorize, that is how we make sense of the world and the chaos around us. Everyone also knows, that everything won't fit into a category, but that is implied in the word "generalization". It is a model, a sample, not representative for everyone.

Also, everyone's experience of the world is different, our differences in opinion are to some extent based on our different experiences of the world, and people of course generalize after their own experiences, and something that one person feel is "generally true" may not be shared by the next person. So, assume that the person who is writing something, is writing the truth, from their point of view.

I do not disagree with this. I draw different conclusions from it than you. Even if people are doing the best they can with generilizations in their life, they still have a responsability to consider conflicting infromation. If what you said is meant to advocate that we shouldn't be contradicting him, then I do disagree. Hitler youth, no matter the fact that their literally was nothing they could do to stop from being given certain sterotypes, are still required by reason to listen to other opinions that may contradict them. Simply because they came acroos their opinions validly, does not mean that an opinion is valid. So, disagreeing with that opinion should be seen as valid. You'll notice that never once in my last post did I disagree with the OP's experiences, just the opinion that generalizes to others as based on said experiences.

Sorting into categories is a fact of life, and I study psychology, so it is a great fact of life for our mental richness and to do without it would be insane, but when these categories are wrong(or even subjective if we are going to argue along relativistic grounds) then not redefining these categories should not be taken as somehow more proper than redefining them. Which is what you seem to be arguing when you inform us only that sorting into categories is natural, in defense of somebody who--like you said--most people are disagreeing with.

[Sally]

Lamp, instead of reflecting that you are "genderless mentally", your post sounds like you are thinking quite stereotypically about females. That's very unpleasant to read, and would be to be around also.

[ithaca]

As a gay lady, I think I disprove your theory.

*couldn't care less about men*

[Valja]

Wow, I never knew that boys/men think that way, that they have to be the alpha male to attract women, I thought they don't care.

I thought that women are in this situation, that they have that pressure on them, my roommate always says that men want girls that dress sexy, keep they hair long, dye it blonde. I always said it makes women look dumb, doing it for men, but I thought that because I am asexual I don't think like the sexual women who want to attract men. They are also competitive, who looks the sexiest, she says to me: wear sexy clothes, this is what men like, I'm like: What? I dress the way I want.

I also think that it is the way we are educated too, for example in my country boys are educated when they grow up to look for a woman with a house, good job, good looking , to know how to cook and nowadays you can see around here men that don't even work, like my neighbor who put his wife to work, took all her money, slept all day because he spent the nights on the computer, but eventually she opened her eyes and left him after 20 years (better later than never).

I was put in such a situation myself when the priest came to my house with a boy saying to him that I have a house and we should be together (in my mind: out of my house this instant, but I couldn't say anything so I kept quiet). I know that not all men are like that, like not all women are like you say.

[Philip027]

*couldn't care less about men*

;~;

[poindexter]

Dude... if you want girls to be interested in you, it's probably about 100 squijillion times better to treat them like people, not like "female body entities".

Honestly, the number of people on this website who treat members of the opposite sex like aliens is quite disturbing.

[Exanimis]

Dude... if you want girls to be interested in you, it's probably about 100 squijillion times better to treat them like people, not like "female body entities".

Honestly, the number of people on this website who treat members of the opposite sex like aliens is quite disturbing.

:cake: :cake: :cake: :cake: :cake:

I had to stop laughing to clap to this post!

Perfect! But I will add, you will only belittled or objectified if you allow it to happen.

[MC Dusters]

Well,

I got male parts, i got female parts, i got brain full of theorethical physics and i want to date women of IQ > 180 (joke)

To be serious, what ya want? You want to get laid? You want to be treated like who? Genderless? Give me a textbook how to treat genderless persons and i will be happy to obey.

You think you need to be alpha to get laid or to be respected among males? Many ppl in previous posts have argued it's not a logical train of thought.

[ChainSmokingBob]

I just want to mention that the OP is an idiot with some perverse views :)

[henster]

No, what I am saying is not that the OP is totally right, without any reflection, I'm just saying that his insights and opinions has to be taken seriously, because they are the truth for him. To be able to make him see that things can be very different from how he is experiencing it, one needs to start with respect for his current opinion though. You can't just tell someone "look you are wrong, this is how things clearly are!", they will not listen to you, they will just think you are being an insensitive knowitall.

If you feel that someone's views are wrong, and maybe harmful to them, you have to help them see that by themselves, not force your truth upon them. Then when they change their opinion, it will be a solid change of opinion, and not just blindly following someone else's, meaning that opinion could switch just as easily if someone else came along an presented a more attractive view.

But yes, sometimes, it can be very hard to make people even look into another direction, and explore the possibility that maybe there is more to the world than their own truth. I am of course aware of that.

Everything said, in my experience there is a group of men who, while being men and able to enjoy everything that comes with their gender, they have a very hard time approaching women, because they do not represent the "alpha-male" description. Most of these men, are also marginalized due to other things, they are very shy, socially awkward, not white among mostly white women, look funny, are overweight, are very short, etc. (No, this is not where you barge in a say "hey, I've dated ALOT of overweight/black guys, this is generally not true!", I am still taking about my own experiences here, not yours), and in the long run, they feel like our society is a very hard place for them to be, it's super hard to find a partner, when most women just automatically sort you in the "friendshipbin", or even turn away when they see you, and other men use them as stepping stones to assert their own status.

I CAN understand that these men get bitter, frustrated, angry. Some women will say "well tough luck, they're still MEN and will always have an easier time than any given women, because we live in a man's world". I'm feeling that even if they are men, they can have serious problems too, and I don't wanna deal with a confused/scared/lonely person in a way that means just brushing him off because he is a man, because to me, he is primarily an individual.

[LeeBree]

1. Being tall - I couldn't care less about his height. In fact, it pisses me off when girls shut down guys immediately for not being tall. It's really that important that he… what, has to awkwardly bend down to kiss you? How romantic .-.

2. Income - Doesn't matter as I should be able to provide for myself anyway.

3. Body mass - Er, what's he going to protect me from? Taxes? Yea, body mass is real useful there.

4. His social skills - I'd have to be a hypocrite to the max to judge someone on their social skills when my own suck.

5. Lastly his status - How others rank him? All that matters is how I rank him, and that isn't based on his social status.

I'm a female, and was born as one too. Alpha male stereotypes are obnoxious in my opinion, and any man who'd hurt others to make me impressed is an extremely huge turn off. The second he puts on a "Heh, look how awesome I am compared to that loser" is the second any remote interest I had completely dies.

Also, if you're going to say women must feel this way because instincts, [sarcasm] then asexuals don't exist. See, humans only exist to make more humans. It's a natural instinct to have sex so all of us feel sexual attraction. And agenders don't exist, we're all instinctively what we're biologically born as, after all, agenders have no purpose in society if they don't fit male or female stereotypes to help attract mates. Homosexuals don't exist either as it's our base instinct to reproduce with the opposite sex. Oh, and monogamous relationships can't exist as we're hardwired to make as many babies as possible with as many people as possible, and monogamy would inhibit that. [/EndSarcasm]

Oh wait, all of that is complete horse shit because people are actually more than just instincts and stereotypes.

Yes love is a bunch of chemicals, but knowing what causes it doesn't invalidate it. And to say love only comes from male and females acting out stereotypical gender roles would disregard an amazingly huge plethora of the kinds of love people can experience.

[BadAlchemy]

In my experience, women don't follow that dumb Greco-nomenclature scale. I think that's just been a media-promoted fad that's creeped a bit into academia in the last ten or so years. Contrary to your theory, OP, I've attracted female attention just for being me. As for height, I match the mean average of an American male of my race. Nothing to see here, yet I've never been rejected due to height factors. Humans aren't instinct-driven wolves, even though we sometimes behave like them.

Also, I think attraction depends on your social circles. Say if you were in the arts, well, the person having the gallery showing is going to garner more attention (from any gender) as opposed to the wine-sipping wallflower. People in the literary circles are going to notice the person up on stage slamming more so than the person sulking in the shadows of the bookstore and so on. It's about being seen and exercising your merits. That's not enslavement, that's expressing yourself and you might attract sexual attention. Now, if you go to some club that caters to the lowest-common denominator, well, all genders are going to be more likely attracted to their baser instincts. You can't hear anything, no one can hear you, etc. Those meat markets are odious in my opinion and only bring out the worst behavior in people - especially when many there are high or drunk. Don't forget to factor in the chemicals.

Being an Aro/Ace, I find it unnerving when my job requires me to occasionally be in the spotlight just because I know that there's a possibility of attracting sexual attention (and this sometimes happens). Personally, I would rather talk about the work than try to belay flirtations.

[Sally]

Henster, I can't make quotes work so I'll just reply to your post. You talk about how we should attempt to help someone understand that there are different ways to view or experience something, so that we can help them to have a better experience of that something. But AVEN is not a group of psychologists/psychiatrists. It's basically a discussion site. If someone makes what most AVEN readers feel is post containing stereotypes (especially stereotypes about one whole half of society, in this case women), we are free to say that.

[henster]

sally2: I hear what you are saying. Ok, yes, it is a discussion forum. I guess it's just who I am, always trying to have what I believe to be a somewhat constructive approach to things, but I understand the need to express your frustration and vent on a forum too. I think this is what our OP is doing, so in that sense, yes you are right, everyone can just reply with their own personal views.

OP: Remember that your opinion is as entitled and valid as the others, even if you guys don't agree. Feel free to contact me in PM if you wanna discuss more privately.