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I might lose my husband...


NoShrinkingViolet

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NoShrinkingViolet

First off, thank goodness for AVEN! And thank you to anyone taking the time to read my post, and provide advice, suggestions, support, etc. I appreciate it beyond the words I can put on this page!

My husband and I have been married for 10 years; we have two young daughters (3 and 1), and we've had ups and downs. Like most relationships, initially, the sex was frequent and I enjoyed it. However, the urge died down quickly for me, and after about 6-12 months, I was no longer interested in sex. My husband is a Sexual, on the complete opposite end of this spectrum from me, as he is what I lovingly refer to as hypersexual - there's rarely enough sex for him, he is nearly insatiable. He's been this way since childhood. For the better part of our marriage, he consistently thought something was wrong with me, and I saw doctor after doctor to "fix" my low libido. It's not that I have zero libido, it just is SO low it doesn't come anywhere close to what he needs/desires. We've been through marriage counseling a few times, and found a therapist who is highly skilled in all things sexual, and for the last 1-1/2 years, he has been our guidepost for effective communication and forming a stronger emotional bond. Once I stumbled upon AVEN, my husband finally understood and our relationship morphed into something stronger than it's ever been - I finally felt understood, I finally felt accepted, and he stopped pressuring me and stopped making me feel that I was "broken." Our therapist has since worked with us in helping us find compromises that are acceptable for our marriage - e.g., my husband finding alternative sexual partners and outlets, with my "approval," and me engaging in sex and being willing to initiate when it is within my comfort level.

However, this last weekend, we hit a wall. Now, to preface all of this, my husband has not yet implemented the extramarital sexual partners idea, because he's been focused on our relationship and our emotional bond, and bonding with our daughters and finding hobbies and interests (soccer, woodworking, etc). This last weekend, we discussed him starting to look for other partners, and the topic of emotional engagement arose. I asked him if he felt it would be enough for him to just have sexual partners without the emotion involved, because he is wired as someone who "makes love" in the traditional sense, whereas I "make love" in other ways (snuggling, spending time together, etc.)? Would "just sex" without the "love" be enough? His response was, "I don't know." So thus the discussion took a turn into, can he be fulfilled for the remainder of his life having a wife who connects with him emotionally and only very occasionally sexually, or does he need the all-inclusive package of someone who is Sexual like he is, whom he can also have an emotional bond with? It tore us to pieces. For all this time, we thought we were onto something, a great compromise for our marriage and our family, one that took us a while to get to, but we were all comfortable with it. And now, his uncertainty brings back all of these feelings I've had in the past of not feeling "good enough" and feeling that I'm letting him down. I wish I could just make myself want to have sex with him, with anybody for that matter, and all of this would just disappear. All that shame and guilt I once felt, and had dealt with, immediately resurfaced. Neither of us want the marriage to dissolve, but we both also understand and respect each other so much, that we don't want to continue to subject the other to things that are uncomfortable or that cause pain, or that deprive each other of fulfillment. We have an extended session with our therapist this week, as we both feel we're at an impasse now. The thought of divorcing is more terrifying than anything I've been through, though at the same time, may lead to ultimate happiness for him. I'm a wreck today, wracked with emotions and on this roller coaster of "You're ok" and "No you're not!" He brought up the idea of polyamory, but I am just so emotional today, I can't even conceive of that being an option. Any cyber hugs are much appreciated today! And any advice, thoughts, suggestions, anything, I am open to reading and discussing and engaging in dialogue about. Thank you again for reading my post.

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biace_inyourface

I feel like I'm reading about my own situation, there are so many similarities. Me and my husband are still working through things very similar to what you are going through. My husband is the type of person who needs to feel an emotional attachment for sex to truly be fulfilling for him. We are polyamorous, but he said that even if he were to find somone he could have that attachment with, he would still want sex with me first and foremost. Sex is about intimacy for him, and without it in our relationship, he doesn't feel fulfilled. It's been really hard for a long time, and I completely understand how you feel about being at an impasse. You're both aware that something needs to change, but have no idea what the first step is.

Try to find out what it is about sex that he needs. For my husband, he wanted the feeling of intimacy. So we talked about what else would give him that feeling. He feels intimate when giving someone else pleasure. We figured out certain acts that I feel comfortable with and made ground rules. He doesn't ask me to reciprocate, and in return, I will work myself up to a point where I feel comfortable initiating reciprocation. It's not perfect, but it's finally feeling like we're getting somewhere.

I really hope you're able to work things out! I know that it is so so hard.

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NoShrinkingViolet

I came across this article - maybe many on AVEN have already seen this, but I'm so "new" to all of this, I'm literally sitting here processing all of this information and all of the options that people in relationships have. Not that I've been necessarily closed off, but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't think about what "others will think" if my husband and I take an avenue outside of conventional societal "standards and norms." Why do we have to have so many labels?! Anyway, this link is opening my eyes to new worlds I never knew about, and just thought I'd share...

FancyJulia, you mentioned you are polyamorous; how did you begin/find/seek out asexual relationships, and if you don't mind my asking, what do those look like for you guys? Do you live separately? Together? I'm working through all of this in my head, thinking about my kids and how I explain everything to them in the future, however all of this turns out!

Here is the link I was talking about earlier.

https://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/the-big-fat-polyamorous-asexual-post/

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Perhaps this thread may be helpful for you: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/86184-considering-an-open-marriage-advice-is-welcome/?hl=kittenpuff#entry2395536

If him being with other people doesn't bother you, poly could work. And it doesn't HAVE to be the triad (not sure the actual term) type situation where all three of you are "together" - he could have partners outside of your own relationship, your kids do not need to be involved at all with his other partners, until such a time everyone involved feels comfortable. Many poly couples also keep their poly arrangement from the public, cause really it's no ones business but yours and his and whoever he is with.

Him loving someone else doesn't mean he has to love you less, some people truly are capable of loving multiple people equally. Be sure to discuss in detail and only approach it if you BOTH are comfortable with it. Poly/open relationships don't tend to work as bandaids, but if both people agree with the philosophy it can.

There are several poly members and some with open relationships as well. Take some time and browse the forums, read other peoples stories. I can't help from the first person standpoint, as I am monogamous, but there are others who may be able to. :cake: Good luck and I hope you two figure something out!

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If you two are concerned of him forming an emotional engagement, why not try a sex worker? It's safe, consensual, and there's no risk in a sex worker destroying your relationship or having ulterior motives. If loveless sex proves to be ineffective in sating his sexual desire, then you guys have ruled out sex outside of the marriage and can work together to find a new alternative.

If he requires some sort of emotional engagement to fulfill his needs, there are many people out there who want to be someone's "second"-- not the primary relationship, but a secondary one, the occasional date, the occasional sexual encounter, and who is open to communicating with the two of you on a regular basis.

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If you two are concerned of him forming an emotional engagement, why not try a sex worker? It's safe, consensual, and there's no risk in a sex worker destroying your relationship or having ulterior motives. If loveless sex proves to be ineffective in sating his sexual desire, then you guys have ruled out sex outside of the marriage and can work together to find a new alternative.

It's illegal in some places to hire someone for sex, so that could be a concern of theirs if they live in a place where it isn't acceptable.

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If you two are concerned of him forming an emotional engagement, why not try a sex worker? It's safe, consensual, and there's no risk in a sex worker destroying your relationship or having ulterior motives. If loveless sex proves to be ineffective in sating his sexual desire, then you guys have ruled out sex outside of the marriage and can work together to find a new alternative.

It's illegal in some places to hire someone for sex, so that could be a concern of theirs if they live in a place where it isn't acceptable.

That's a really good point. There's also other ethical things to think about (like, is the person sold into sex slavery? or is this a person who's willingly doing sex work?).

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It's also not safe to hire a sex worker in the US, except for a county in Nevada where sex workers live in managed houses and are examined regularly for STDs.

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  • 3 weeks later...

For us, it couldn't work. He hypersexual, I am graysexual, and while thinking/talking through the Open Relationship thing many times, he realized he needs to be monogamous, and it would break my heart in half if he was sleeping with other people.

Amongst many other reasons! We divorced.

It sounds like your husband is freaking awesome, though. He really cares about you, that is for sure!

Could it work? Most open relationships are with both partners doing the extramarital stuff, not just one.

That's tough! I hope you guys can work it out.

But that is a real issue, and it is hard for the both of you, and let me tell you from this side, that being divorced from the man I love is AWFUL, but still better than being a constant disappointment to him. It really is better.

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I hope seeing the therapist works, and feel so much sympathy for the fact that you'are already in a relationship with children that worked out fine, and then got worse. I really do hope you find something that works.

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I'm sorry you are going through this. I don't really have an advice to offer since I am going through something similar. I don't know if it is even possible for an asexual and a sexual to survive. I know it seems like an everyday struggle and yet it still feels like it slipping away. I really hope you both can work things out. wishing you all the best

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Just wanted to send some belated cyber hugs your way! Wishing you the best and hoping things work out

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NoShrinkingViolet

Thank you everyone for the thoughts and advice and suggestions and support!

Things have been up and down for us. We began exploring the world of polyamory to discover if it could work for us. As with any new journey like this, there have been roadblocks that we are still trying to work around. Primarily, two of my main concerns when we first started exploring this world were time and money. I am a veeeeeeeerrrrrryyyyy busy mom of two young kids and I work part-time. Solitude, or even time with my friends so I'm away from home and the kids and the pets and the responsibilities, is extremely difficult to come by. When I don't get that time to "check in" with myself, I crumble. Sometimes my husband is better than other times at providing that time for me, and sometimes he gets so absorbed in what he's doing, he forgets about my time - despite reminders from me. The other concern, money, is a huge one. We've had some recent large, necessary expenses (broken fridge, very sick dog), and we've been trying desperately to pay off bills and save for a family vacation next summer. I even picked up extra shifts at work to help financially, though this also addresses concern #1 because it eats away at more time I could be spending checking in with myself. At any rate, we haven't quite mastered how these concerns will be addressed, how we find the balance. And, my husband is very much "give him an inch, he'll take a mile." He got SO excited by the idea of polyamory, he just started to kind of dive head-first into the process rather than just exploring. And in that process of his, I felt sort of brushed aside at times. So that created some issues. So, *deep sigh* I don't know that we're much closer to finding a solution that will work for us. I'm trying to be as supportive of his needs as possible, while also not feeling trampled in the process. Does that make sense? I already feel that some of my needs (emotional, supportive, etc.) are not met - at least on a consistent basis - so when I give and give and support and support only to feel sort of bulldozed….I pull away and I disengage. This is such a difficult process, advocating for yourself and your own needs but also trying to support what your husband needs and wants. So, that's where things stand as of today. I still have doubts this can all work, but at least at the end of whatever journey we're on - polyamory, divorce, whatever - we will know we did EVERYthing possible, and whatever decision we come to will be the best for us both. For now, I'm taking things day by day…..that's all I know how to do anymore. :)

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Just a comment: When I read your above post, it seemed as though it was all about your husband's feelings. I wonder how this will support YOUR needs? Will these actions make YOU any happier/more content in your marriage?

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NoShrinkingViolet

That's the million dollar question Sally2 :) Things have felt pretty weighted toward his feelings for a majority of our marriage, and it wasn't until he truly understood asexuality and truly understood me that things have turned around a little bit. Despite his understanding of me, he is very much an advocate for what he needs to feel fulfilled. He's not malicious about things - he has a very tender heart and is a genuinely caring, compassionate person. It's just that he feels this basic need of his is going completely unfulfilled, so I have to decide whether I am ok with him exploring polyamory, or I'm not. I do feel that there has sometimes been a disconnect between what he says and what his actions portray. He's a very emotional person - on the inside. He doesn't know how to show his emotions, so he says things but then does things that appear to erase what he just said. It's all very confusing for me! And has been our entire marriage. It's something we've constantly battled and worked on together. But you are right - where are MY needs being met? That's why one of my top concerns was how I would feel supported in this process and how I would get my needs met (time for myself, time with friends, etc.) vs. just going along with whatever he wants to do and I'm just the wife at home taking care of the entire world for him. Not meaning to sound resentful, but sometimes I have those feelings. If I just sit down and meditate and think about this, I feel like I don't want polyamory in my marriage. But, I also don't want to lose my best friend and I don't want the kids to lose their dad (in a sense; we would always, always be amazing co-parents and great friends, but my kids are 4 and 1-1/2, so they're losing their "daddy" in a way). It's all very heart wrenching for me, incredibly confusing, and it weighs on me heavily every single day.

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Technically, polyamory is both partners welcoming a third party into their marriage. That doesn't sound like what might be happening, so your husband would have the outside relationship. If that's the case, it would be you who would be home with the children while he's doing that.

I don't mean to sound like your husband's being unfair to you -- I'm not in your marriage, so I don't know. But it sounds like you need some time to figure out what's really comfortable to you, while he's raring to go. Think about this: a compromise (which is usually necessary in a mixed marriage) entails both partners being involved in the compromise. It doesn't mean one partner getting what they want and the other partner being very uncomfortable. I think that's true no matter which partner is sexual and which partner is asexual.

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NoShrinkingViolet

Well, in all the reading and research I've done about polyamory, there are relationships called mono-poly, where one partner is monogamous and the other is polyamorous. That's what my husband and I had discussed, as I'm not seeking external relationships like he wanted to. And you are right - compromise doesn't mean that one partner sacrifices to the point of utter sacrifice and the other partner gets whatever they want. That is how this has felt to me a majority of the time - that I was constantly sacrificing for his happiness, and I've lost myself in the process (not just with this topic, but other big things - and small things - in our marriage). Thank goodness for my kids keeping me somewhat sane! They bring such joy into my days, I couldn't survive this without their beautiful smiles and happy giggles!

Interesting update as of last night: my husband came home from his session with his therapist (he sees one, and we see a different one together, and I've been thinking I need to find my own…), and he said that he'd come to the realization that he had wanted to explore polyamory because he is lacking the deep emotional connection with me that he craves, and he unknowingly thought that seeking that elsewhere would be the solution. It was through talking things out with his therapist that he realized what he was doing, and he came home and said he no longer wanted to explore polyamory, and he wants to reconnect with me - he wants to even plan a weekend getaway where we can escape the house and pets and kids and work and just focus on reconnecting in our marriage. My immediate reaction was, I've been trying to tell you all along that we weren't rock solid when you began exploring polyamory, but it took someone else telling you that for you to hear it. It gets very frustrating that I don't feel heard. And, I still feel very confused and very much in limbo. He seems to change his mind a lot, and I have (so far) gone with his ebbs and flows. To my own detriment. One of my friends/coworkers mentioned yesterday that I look exhausted, I've lost weight, and I seem really depressed. Holy cow, I had no idea! I'm so busy with daily life and just surviving, but now that I stop and think about it, I'm not sleeping well, definitely not eating much because I'm so stressed about all of this, and of course I'm exhausted, running myself ragged for everyone but myself. I have near-daily headaches, stomachaches, lethargy. It's like my body is telling me, "You are really uncomfortable with all of this! Listen to what you want and don't want!" I really have been sacrificing so much for my husband's happiness, to my own detriment. When I told him that last night, he didn't really respond, but reiterated that he wants to reconnect with me, build our marriage on a stronger foundation, and he no longer wants to explore polyamory. I still have many doubts and feel quite cynical about what he says, because he's flip flopped so many times. I did tell him that for the first time, I am advocating for myself, and we must set a timeline on which to work toward something. I cannot keep living in limbo and confusion and stress - it has been 2 years already. For my own sake, we have to figure things out soon. I fear for my own health, and happiness, if things continue like this much longer.

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Hi Noshrinkingviolet, I read your posts and wanted to say, my heart hurts for you! I am so sorry you are going through this.

I also felt a bit mad at the world, reading your post. It is very,very normal for women to lose their libido after having kids, and working, and taking care of the house. That is an exhausting life and it doesn't leave much energy for sex! Especially at the age your kids are! I am angry that people are expected to maintain this high libido through life. I wish it were acceptable that for many people, libido simply waxes and wanes, especially in response to the stress of life. And I wish people would be patient with their spouses through these down times -even if the downtimes last for years! Because the busy-ness can last for years, especially while the kids are young. You know?

So you had to endure all these messages about something being WRONG with and seek out ways to FIX you, when I don't think there is anything wrong at all!

I am glad your husband has backed off the polyamory, because it did sound to me like a hostage situation - "we must try this, or the marriage is over!" But he still sounds remarkably insensitive to your thoughts and feelings. It is wonderful to hear you start to assert yourself. I think the idea of a personal counsellor for you is a good one - they could help you have more of a voice in your marriage!

You seem like you are an awesome wife, devoted to your family. You deserve a happy marriage. Good luck!

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Hey, don't feel too upset it took a therapist saying it to him to get through. People are conditioned that professionals are always right. I'm glad he's not just jumping in the band wagon now.

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Have you read Opening Up? It helped us a lot. Especially the bits about understanding New Relationship Energy and also realizing the importance of the primary relationship (ie yours together) and that you get a say in what he can do as far as what makes you comfortable. It's hard to realize that you can't or don't want to enthusiastically meet the sexual needs of your spouse, but being honest about it and not being blamed for it is a huge huge part of it working in the long term.

I haven't been here in over a year, but figured I should come back, because with this situation that we are both in (!) talking about it with people who can relate is so important.

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I would say, letting your husband go for extra-marital is okay for him. Even if we assume he keeps on emotionally attached to you and only physically to other woman. Have you thought about the other woman, who over the period of time may want more from your husband. she might be aware of his marital status but love can bloom anywhere, what will she do in that. What could your husband offer her as security of life? Won't both of you become responsible for spoiling that woman's life. She has a chance to find someone made for her and definitely your husband is made for you and not for her.

And if he goes for multiple partners then that has its own risk. Think about all this too

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NoShrinkingViolet

My husband has read Opening Up; I haven't had time to sit and read for a long time, what with all the household responsibilities and taking care of the kids and working outside the home…..the list is endless. Finding time for myself has been nearly impossible. It is on my list of books to read, however.

We've thought about every person that could possibly become involved with him, what the ramifications would be, etc. We've considered what it would do to our marriage, how it could evolve and change, or how it could disintegrate. Trust me, there isn't one thing we haven't considered; this process has been exhausting as a result. I think we're doing our due diligence in considering all the options, so we're not caught off guard; however, we do realize that nothing is predictable, and being caught off guard is always, always a possibility! Especially in situations like these! The mental energy it takes to do this, though, has been draining.

As things stand right now, my husband is trying really hard to be emotionally connected and available to me. He is trying to be supportive with all the responsibilities I have, take the kids off my hands when he comes home from work, allow me time to just sit and stare at the wall if I want to! I feel very distanced from him, though. I have two very close friends who know what's been going on, and I've been communicating to them that I feel like our marriage has been a lot of me giving, him taking, and I've been kind of flung around and brought back around, then flung around and brought back around, and I just don't trust him right now. This isn't a small situation, "Hey, I like apples. Wait, no I don't. Wait, oh yes I do!" This is huge, life-changing, and I haven't taken any of it lightly. And it's significantly affected my physical and emotional and mental health. So, I'm not in a position to accept his attempts at emotional connection because I feel quite distrusting of him. I'm not sure how to repair that, though I'm sure our therapist does. :) I'm just so exhausted from, well, life in general, and then add all of this and I feel many days like I'm in survival mode, just on the brink of breaking. So, I am trying to find ways to be happy with myself and my kids, and whatever happens in my marriage will happen. It's incredibly difficult to pour energy into someone who has not consistently done the same for you, and to continue to love them despite. Thank you all for listening and offering advice; it means so much that you've taken the time to reach out to me!

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Okay, so to start with the positive, I have been polyamorous for more than a decade, and just to strengthen your point, the models that sally2 gave is only one possibility among many and definitely not what I find comfortable for myself or even the most common one in the poly community. However, you've already decided that poly isn't for you, so I'll quickly move on to the more relevant matter.

I don't know of a positive way to say the following, and it truly hurts me to say it, but it seems to me as if you're hanging on to this relationship out of inertia and fear, that you are afraid to be assertive and state your needs clearly because of that fear. You are following your husband's every whim, suppressing your own desires and acting in "survival mode" because you're constantly afraid of losing him. This is in my opinion very unhealthy, for yourself as well as for the relationship. This relationship is not making you happy. It is draining your energy instead of adding to it. It is not working, and your lack of trust and communication with your husband, as well as him exploring himself and being in an unstable and uncertain emotional place at the moment, isn't helping matters.

To be blunt, If I were you I'd put my mental health and the health of my family members above the value of 'staying together at all costs'. If you want your husband to learn, that your relationship and family isn't his private playground for exploration, and that you and the children also have needs, you're going to need to set some boundaries and be more assertive, if not downright confrontational, and be ready for the possibility that divorce is the most healthy option for all of you. It seems to me that the paralysis and silence caused by fear that you describe, the exhaustion, the insecurity and the lack of trust are symptoms of this situation, and that in order to change it, your husband is not the only one who needs to work on themselves and change their behaviour. I think that getting a therapist for yourself as well as a couple's counsellor is a good idea, and it might help you find the ways in which you contribute to this dynamic, and finding strategies to avoid doing so in the future, either in this relationship or in a future one.

I wish you lots of courage in the days ahead, and lots of virtual hugs.

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NoShrinkingViolet

Qwair, I am glad to hear that polyamory is working well for you, and I thank you for your insight and advice. And thank you for the well wishes for courage and virtual hugs! Means so much.

We have a therapist we've seen for the past 2 years; he is renowned in these types of issues and has been my rock during times of extreme pain. Without him, my husband and I would be divorced already, but we've given this marriage all we've had so we could always say, "We did everything." And no matter what - whether we remain married or divorce - we want to be that model for our children so that we could truly say we did everything, and the outcome (whatever that may be) was the best decision for us all. I am now coming from a place of wanting to allow my children to have a happy life (my childhood was awful and I had horrible models for relationships). I have also contacted a therapist today and have an appointment Monday morning for myself. I have to, have to get myself back on track.

I do feel I should say, I have been anything but silent in this situation. I'm no shrinking violet (hence my username here!), and have asserted myself throughout this situation from beginning until end. The times I have fallen quiet have been times of introspection, times when I really dive inward and reconnect with MY values, MY wants and needs, and only then can I reassert myself in the relationship. My husband and I separated for a while earlier this year because of everything, and that was my doing. He initially refused to move out, but I pressed the issue and he ended up leaving; it was critical that I keep the kids in the home and I stay with them, as I am with them most of the time anyway, and wanted their lives to be as "normal" as possible during our separation. I needed time and space to heal myself, my children, my life, and figure out what I wanted in the future. Things improved in our marriage, he moved back in, and after several months, the pattern seemed to repeat. Which is why I'm now nearing the end of my rope as far as all this goes; I have told him in no uncertain terms that I cannot and will not continue in this manner. At first, I was afraid of divorce, more so for the kids' sake and for financial reasons, but those fears have (mostly) subsided. Of course, the process of divorce is scary, but I feel confident in knowing that what lies on the other side is happiness for us both (if that's the route we go, of course). I am saddened by the fact that I feel that just several weeks ago, we were coming from a place of true compassion for each other, true "compersion," if you're familiar with that term, but then things seemed to turn around and again my needs felt placed on the back burner while he pursued what he wanted. I have tried very hard to always take his needs into consideration, to not judge him for what he wants or needs, and to try to understand him so that I can be a friend and wife to him. I do not feel he has done the same for me; at times, he has, but it has been inconsistent, and things seem to change for the better typically when he knows I'm upset or not happy in the marriage. He insists this is not the case, but my feelings are my feelings and I don't feel they are wrong - they're just feelings. At any rate, we have an appointment with our therapist again next Wednesday, and I feel that the conversation we will be having will be different than those of the past.

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Yes this is pretty much my situation but without kids. I never wanted kids and he did, which is another difficult thing to deal with, but managed to sort through that one. I feel like i have tried everything and gave as much as i can give and its still not enough. We have been together for 13 years and hes my closest friend, someone i always thought i would grow old with as we got on so well, except for the sex where we are poles apart. He doesn't feel like he can cope without it at least a couple of times a week, we used to once a month, for his preference it would be every day and i just cant even process that frequency, and i tried scheduling it in, and having it more often but then he says he feels like he is forcing me into it now he knows i'm asexual and feels terribly guilty. Its only in the last 6 months we found out i was asexual/ hetero romantic. I want a relationship but without the sex. He feels like he cant have a relationship anymore without being with someone who wants to have sex with him and has a similar level of desire. Its very hard coming to terms with what is likely the end of our relationship. We discussed an open relationship but he wants that connection with someone and wont just have sex with anyone. But there seems no point to keep fighting for a relationship where you are never enough.

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