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How do you know if you are truly smart?


Arctic_Revenge

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Arctic_Revenge

This is a question that has been plaguing me for ages.

Intelligence tests have flaws and so many things are subjective.

People say there are different kinds of intelligences and not one solid measure.

Yet we can easily point out who's bright and who's not.

But when you believe you are stupid, how can you know?

When a person says "You're so smart! Why aren't you paid more?!"

and you've done nothing remarkable, how do you know if it's true?

I was told the quote above today, and my first mental response was to reject it,

thinking: "I'm not smart, I just see the problem from the outside."

or "Being smarter than you does not make me smart."

I know smart people and being around them makes me feel awful and stupid.

I know there's an echelon of people, not even making the title genius, that are WAY out of my league of intellect.

I've taken to calling myself average because of this, but this upsets people.

They tell me I'm putting myself down or being modest, or straight up lying to get attention.

At what point can you raise your head and proclaim you are smart, and have that claim hold up?

(Especially when you, like I do, do amazingly stupid shit daily @_@)

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Batman's Ace

This makes so much sense to me. I'd write amazing papers at school, and get great grades, but a professor had to remind me that marriage statistics today are not identical to those in the fifteen hundreds. Which I'd forgotten. I've been called smart, but I tend to think I'm quite on the other side of things. So I have no clue what I am, really.

As for intelligence tests, most of them look like party tricks. If a yellow triangle is related to a blue circle, what's related to a green square? I don't care. It's a waste of my time.

It's more practical to say "I'm good at this," "I'm interested in that," "I've learned a lot about such-and-such," and ignore the whole "smart" problem. I'm good at spacial reasoning (usually). Does that make me smart? I don't know. I'm just good at spacial reasoning (usually). And saying what I'm good at is more useful than saying I'm smart, because "smart" is completely irrelevant to any skill set or experience or interest.

They tell me I'm putting myself down or being modest, or straight up lying to get attention.

What the? That makes no sense. "Look at me! I'm AVERAGE!"

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Arctic_Revenge

They tell me I'm putting myself down or being modest, or straight up lying to get attention.

What the? That makes no sense. "Look at me! I'm AVERAGE!"

Yeah. I hear a lot that I can't take a compliment (Which I reeeeeeeally can't. Depression does that.) Or that I'm fishing for compliments.

Most times it's from people I KNOW I'm smarter than, and in my head I'm like "Listen, thanks, but being smart in comparison to you isn't all that hard, so the compliment doesn't hold much weight."

It'd be great if someone really intelligent meant it. So far the smartest people I know to say it, professors, were obligated to say it and never meant it. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaate that so much.

I wish people were honest @_@

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I can relate to this a lot. I am decently good in math and computer science, but that's about it- everything else makes me feel like an idiot. However, since a lot of people have issues with math they think I'm a genius when I get straight A's in calculus or Linear Algebra or whatever. If I try to argue that I'm just good at math, not actually smart, they get mad and think I'm fishing for more compliments, even though that's what I really believe.

The problem is, people perceive intelligence differently, and in my case other the are people that see more intelligence in me than I see in myself. There's no way to ever know which of us is right, because there's no decisive test to prove if youre smart or not.

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Squirrel Combat

I'm smart because I'm always right! I'm always right because I'm smart!

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I have pretty similar thoughts when I'm told that I'm intelligent. I'm not sure how I would explain intelligence in my own terms.

The dictionary definition is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge."

By that meaning, aren't we all intelligent? Or does that make us all incredibly stupid because of the amount of knowledge there is to acquire and the lack of ability to acquire (or rather comprehend) said knowledge?

I think most people describe intelligence as "being smarter than me," which is such a horrible system. Then again, many people I know that seem less intelligent than me also consider themselves intelligent. Could accepting your already acquired knowledge also be considered intelligent? I have no idea.

I also doubt people when they compliment me, but that's because I accept the idea that I could always be more intelligent. Knowing that I have the ability to acquire more knowledge and not actively pursuing it...I just can't seem to grasp the idea of that making me intelligent.

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I think I can relate to this as well, although in my case it's significantly different, in that I do exceedingly poorly in every subject at school. (I got 57% in grade 8 math, after a LOT of hard work, for the most extreme example) As a matter of fact, I'm not very good at any of the conventional aspects of intelligence; poor memory, short term and long term, poor abstract, spatial and logical thinking and reasoning, poor fluid and crystallized intelligence in general. It's so bad that I have doubts I can even pass high school.

And yet most people I know consider me intelligent. Personally, right now, in my case, I think it's that most people don't or can't distinguish between aptitude and interest. It's fair to say that pretty much all of my interests are intellectual, or have an intellectual side to them, so of course I'm going to learn a little, or gain a little insight. I just don't have any aptitude, which is hard for one to notice, without knowing me well. Having an advanced vocabulary certainly doesn't help in this respect. It's also possible, and I think this is at least partially true, our view of intelligence is distorted and misrepresentative of reality. I'm tired, so I don't really want to start on that. :P

Of course, it could just be that my stress, recurrent insomnia and lingering depression is affecting my ability to think, but I have my doubts.

EDIT: Looking back at this, I guess I was just venting, so I take back what I said. (Grades are a horrible way of gauging intelligence, and whether I'm intelligent or not isn't my place to judge anyway.) What I said below still counts, even if it's too brief and poorly phrased. :/

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SorryNotSorry

Smart people don't go around, acting like know-it-alls. Smart people learn from their own mistakes, but really smart people learn from mistakes others have made.

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Cereos, on 09 Jun 2014 - 9:41 PM, said:Cereos, on 09 Jun 2014 - 9:41 PM, said:

I think I can relate to this as well, although in my case it's significantly different, in that I do exceedingly poorly in every subject at school. (I got 57% in grade 8 math, after a LOT of hard work, for the most extreme example) As a matter of fact, I'm not very good at any of the conventional aspects of intelligence; poor memory, short term and long term, poor abstract, spatial and logical thinking and reasoning, poor fluid and crystallized intelligence in general. It's so bad that I have strong doubts I can even pass high school, I suppose being nearly two years behind is a foreboding indicator.

And yet most people I know consider me intelligent. Personally, right now, in my case, I think it's that most people don't or can't distinguish between aptitude and interest. It's fair to say that pretty much all of my interests are intellectual, or have an intellectual side to them, so of course I'm going to learn a little, or gain a little insight. I just don't have any aptitude, which is hard for one to notice, without knowing me well. Having an advanced vocabulary certainly doesn't help in this respect. It's also possible, and I think this is at least partially true, our view of intelligence is distorted and misrepresentative of reality. I'm tired, so I don't really want to start on that. :P

Of course, it could just be that my stress, recurrent insomnia and lingering depression is affecting my ability to think, but I have my doubts.

You write incredibly well, and I'm inclined to think that's a sign of intelligence. But maybe that's just because I value good writing. Still...

EDIT: You write extremely well. There's nothing incredible about it. I don't always write well.

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alpacaterpillar

Hmm... Batman's Ace's post reminds me of how I generally get C-B grades yet A-grade people come to me for help :huh: Though I do think I'm a good processor but bad communicator. I tend to have an excellent understanding of abstract concepts but can't usually put a name to things, and thus tend to resort to analogies that I change as I go along, resulting in utter incomprehensibility :D I think that basically sums up why I'm so much more interested in my imaginary world, where I don't have to communicate to anybody, than in the real world...

Thing is, being able to process highly complex ideas doesn't necessarily mean you're right. And being right doesn't necessarily mean that you're right for the right reasons (right? :P). Yet I don't think either of those sums up 'smartness' or 'intelligence' in entirety, or even when putting them together.

What do people mean when they say "x is smart"? If they think of themselves as smart, then perhaps they think x is their equal. If they think they're not smart, then perhaps they mean x has said/done things they would not have thought of, that they think are good ideas.

Um... I'm confused... I really don't know where I'm going with this, but I think this is an interesting topic, which I think presents a degree of smartness on your own part ;)

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There is an infinite amount of knowledge to acquire, even if you dedicate your life to it, you're not going to scratch the surface. That's why people specialise in certain areas, and there's no definitive way to measure intelligence. Is a rocket scientist smarter than a brain surgeon? Should the scientist care if the surgeon says he's smarter?

In the end, who cares whether people are being genuine or not? If you have to question whether you're smart or not, you're obviously not smart enough. And can one be too smart?

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Perhaps the best metric is how often people say that you're dumb. If it's a low number, you're probably doing okay. Measuring intelligence and trying to justify being able to claim that you're intellectually superior doesn't have any real value anyway.

There's a theory in psychology (once known as the Downing effect, which you're possibly already aware of) that unintelligent people overestimate themselves and underestimate those around them and vice versa. The thinking behind it is roughly that unintelligent people, being unaware of the complexity of the world due to said stupidity, believe that they pretty much know and are the best at everything - and that intelligent people, aware of how much there is to learn and what some people are capable of, feel that they're hardly anything by comparison.

There's also a tendency for people to show bias for and against subjects that they relate to. For example, a historian will look down on a chemist as being inferior, while the chemist will in turn look down on the historian. It's in some part due to the common egotistical belief that one's own preferences are the one true objective preferences that everyone else should abide by. Similarly, someone who struggles with mathematics will automatically respect anyone who so much as knows what a quadratic equation is.

One thing I also see a lot of within social groups and online communities is the "celebrated intellectual" types, who know just enough to pretend that they know what they're talking about and they'll milk it for all they can. The worst offenders are economics, politics and current affairs; every day, someone will regurgitate what they read in the newspaper that morning and, because it's easier for the "common people" to comprehend and identify with, it earns massive respect. Yet, these acclaimed intellectual superpowers are usually incapable of original thought - and when challenged with anything remotely taxing, begin to foam at the mouth.

In short, the issue is a minefield.

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I finished high school with three highers; an A, a C and a D... I was told that I would never get into university. This week I've finished a four year university course with a 2:1. In my view it's not that I was stupid in high school and smart at university but that the education system is deeply flawed and allows kids that are struggling in non-academic ways, but ways which affects their academic life, to slip through the cracks.

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"Being smarter than you does not make me smart."

Sums it up well. :D

Once the number of people that you have reasonable evidence to consider less smart than you starts to encompass two-thirds or more of the folks you run into, though, I guess you can safely call yourself smart.

Just because Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein can easily make you feel like a dummy in comparison (I know talking to either of them would absolutely (have) give(n) me the feeling of being a stammering imbecile...), doesn't mean that feeling reflects an absolute truth about your intellect.

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SorryNotSorry

I'm smart because I'm always right! I'm always right because I'm smart!

When someone is always right, something is wrong.

...although I can name at least five people who'd beg to differ...

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Fire & Rain

There are different kinds of intellect from my perspective. Good grades usually mean someone knows HOW to study. It doesn't always indicate they are smart.

The traits I admire in people I consider smart are:

- Fast learner

- Easily sees between the lines (if it's emotional intelligence, the ability to read other people's emotions and pick up on vague social cues, etc)

- Comes up with innovative ideas different from other people

- Open-mindedness

- A thirst to learn new things

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Arctic_Revenge

I guess with my depression I just want to know where I really stand.

I mean, the only person I was ever close to passed the LSAT with flying colors and got into like 5 different law schools on a WHIM.

Her undergrad was animation.

Even though she's not in my life anymore she still has this special way of making me feel inferior and stupid.

I listen to people all the time, their eloquent points of views on subjects (even my own major), not only knowing ABOUT stuff

but being able to dissect and logically reason and make hypothesis and comparisons to things I've never heard of...

I can't do that. And the more I listen, the worse I feel.

Yet, when I leave that college level of people and come home,

I'm the smartest person here.

And in my endless depression I go on believing I'm stupid,

when everyone hear tells me I'm smart.

I don't want be self-deprecating OR puffed up and way over-confident.

I just want to know where I stand T_T

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My character sheet says "Int: 19" so I guess I just assumed it was right.

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IQ test, even if they don't calculate smartness, give a good estimation because smarter people tend to have a higher IQ.

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You write incredibly well, and I'm inclined to think that's a sign of intelligence. But maybe that's just because I value good writing. Still...

EDIT: You write extremely well. There's nothing incredible about it. I don't always write well.

Thanks. I think messages are affected sufficiently by the medium they're expressed through to put some effort into what's written or typed, for several reasons.

Anyway, it's important to remember that intelligence isn't an innate quality, it's something that's fostered and grown. While it's true that some people are born with more neurons than average, that's merely an advantage. Said person, we can imagine, could grow up in a hostile or ignorant environment and be deprived of the exposure to knowledge and experiences they'd need to in order to understand the world around them. The more someone is exposed to knowledge and/or experiences, the broader and ever so slightly more accurate their perspective of reality. We learn from our mistakes, we make connections and relate to the unknown through the known, and we can use our knowledge constructively, comparatively, and originally, which I think has more to do with enjoyment, self-confidence and practice rather than some unexplainable and borderline mystical intelligence that many people seem to have notions of.

Also, we all know that people can become wiser as they age, it's I think because they've been exposed to more, and specifically in how to make good decisions and pithily explain the more nebulous and arcane aspects of human life. Really, I'd say that intelligence and wisdom are strongly intertwined, perhaps even two sides of the same coin. So, intelligence, as far as I see it now, is merely the breadth of one's perspective and sum of one's knowledge and experiences, using those words in the broadest definition possible, and additionally, the accuracy with which one's perspective, knowledge and experiences reflect reality or the desired subject of explanation, understanding or use.

I as well think that we could make major strides in tapping into the human potential for intelligence and wisdom by revamping our education system (primary and secondary I mean). The fundamental system itself has remained nearly unchanged for a century and a half, going back to a time when atomic theory was almost brand new. I think the system itself is way out of step with modern society, but I know this is a controversial opinion so it should probably go in the hot box. Actually, what I said about intelligence might better belong there too, but I just wanted to get that off my chest. XD

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I think it was Aristotle that said " The more I know, the more I know I don't know." Smart people realize that there will always be more to learn and experience. People make a big deal saying my I.Q. is this or that, as if it's the final say in all things. But it doesn't measure things like experience, drive, environment,and other things. I'm sure there are a lot of high I.Q. people out there who would not be considered smart simply because they haven't been given the opportunities others have. Does that make them less intelligent?

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I don't. I just assume I'm dumb and it makes me constantly eager to learn more. Which, I guess, has had its positive influence on my overall intelligence. I've had the line thrown at me and I can't deny that it's a nice ego-boost, but I'm pretty honest with myself and I know that paying attention to stuff around me does not make me smart. It makes me a good observer with vast interests.

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The only qualifier for "smart" that I have is whether or not a person listens to everyone they interact with. Or to put it another way; only a fool assumes someone has nothing they can learn from them.

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SorryNotSorry

My grandmother and a now-deceased co-worker are 2 people I can think of off the top of my head who honestly belived all you had to do to become smart was to grow old (and knowledge would magically come to you). The catch is that both of these people made some pretty stupid health decisions which they never seemed to regret, and that's not something truly smart people usually do.

Unfortunately, my late gm and the dead co-worker were far from being the only individuals who believe old age = more smarts.

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Arctic_Revenge

I don't. I just assume I'm dumb and it makes me constantly eager to learn more. Which, I guess, has had its positive influence on my overall intelligence. I've had the line thrown at me and I can't deny that it's a nice ego-boost, but I'm pretty honest with myself and I know that paying attention to stuff around me does not make me smart. It makes me a good observer with vast interests.

"I am the wisest of all the Greeks because I know that I know nothing." or some such.

I wish I could be content in that frame of mind. Where you and others aren't deterred and eagerly hunt knowledge,

I become defeatist and wallow in self-hate, learning becoming all the more unpleasant and futile the dumber I feel.

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I wish I could be content in that frame of mind. Where you and others aren't deterred and eagerly hunt knowledge,

I become defeatist and wallow in self-hate, learning becoming all the more unpleasant and futile the dumber I feel.

Regardless of any difficulty in doing so, do you not believe it's possible to change this mentality?

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Arctic_Revenge

I wish I could be content in that frame of mind. Where you and others aren't deterred and eagerly hunt knowledge,

I become defeatist and wallow in self-hate, learning becoming all the more unpleasant and futile the dumber I feel.

Regardless of any difficulty in doing so, do you not believe it's possible to change this mentality?

I've never been any other way, so I don't know how to get to such a healthy mentality- at least not without lying to myself.

Is it possible? Certainly. Do I know how to make it happen? Nope. [Drivers for this software not found.]

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You don't need to lie to yourself, you need to stop being so hard on yourself. We all fail at things and we all have our own strengths, why should we be more accepting of the strengths than the flaws? You're asking good questions and to me that suggests smart.

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Captain Darkhorse

"If you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid"

To continue the animal metaphor, there are certain animals who are wholly incapable of doing certain things and other animals that are far more adaptable and can do more. The ones that are adaptable would be the smart ones and the ones who excel in an incredibly limited domain would be the stupid ones. It's the same with people. The brightest ones are able to flow across multiple domains without any trouble while the less intelligent ones have problems adapting. I think there's two key things that go into intelligence: how quickly one can absorb a new concept or idea and how quickly one can gain enough mastery over it to manipulate it to the extent they desire. IQ tests try to do that, but they don't do a good job of it.

As for where you stand, I don't think you'll ever have a good answer for that. So many people lie, try to exaggerate their abilities, or normalize them that there's really no good standard of intelligence except "I'm smarter than this particular person". And there's too many people to do that with, so I wish you luck.

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You don't need to lie to yourself, you need to stop being so hard on yourself. We all fail at things and we all have our own strengths, why should we be more accepting of the strengths than the flaws? You're asking good questions and to me that suggests smart.

Agreed, you'd be surprised what you're capable of if you allow yourself to be OK with failure, and to approach your tasks and goals positively, as something to be enjoyed, as enjoyment can be one of the greatest motivators. It's something I struggle with myself, but it's worth the effort, I think.

My grandmother and a now-deceased co-worker are 2 people I can think of off the top of my head who honestly belived all you had to do to become smart was to grow old (and knowledge would magically come to you). The catch is that both of these people made some pretty stupid health decisions which they never seemed to regret, and that's not something truly smart people usually do.

Unfortunately, my late gm and the dead co-worker were far from being the only individuals who believe old age = more smarts.

Good point. I nearly said the opposite in my last post, so much for me putting effort into what's written. I'll just clarify by saying I think that the longer people live, the more they can hear about, see and know, but the content of their experiences is filtered by their views, personality, etc, in such a way that they may end up worse than they were before. Some people are also of course given more or better opportunities and experiences than others, some have learned to filter those opportunities better than others, and so on, so it's not at all a linear growth or an identical growth amongst people. But the crux of it is that I don't think it's innate, static, fixed to one direction, or beyond our ability to change, however difficult changing it may seem. I want to go into more detail as I feel I've hardly scratched the surface, but I'm far too tired for that right now.

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