am i the only one who dislikes clumping asexuality with lgbt

[monkey101]

firstly, i dont have anything against lgbt.

lgbt and asexuality are completely different from each other.

asexuality should not be clumped with lgbt

[marki]

I am with you on not wanting the two to be together.

[The Great WTF]

I am moving this thread to Asexual Musings and Rantings.

The Great WTF

Off-A Moderator

[FairlyAngel]

those are two different things generally but it is possible to be asexual and lgbt like for exampel identify as an asexual lesbian or a biromantic demisexual or be trans and asexual...

It's also possible to be sexual when it comes to a particular gender but experience romantic attraction to other genders without the sexual part... (that is not being asexual - I know - but it can be hard to explain romantic attraction to people outside of AVEN... lgbt or other...)

There are really so many combinations... Identity is not black and white for a lot of people...

I think that might be the reason why it might seem asexuality and lgbt are clumped to one another. I'm not sure they are though, officially... The Ace community seems to be independent, at least to my eyes...

By the way, iIs there some specific occasion where you feel that asexuality and lgbt are clumped together? I've seen this type of discussion here before and I don't really get it because I haven't experienced those two being lumped together in general.

[TheBioNerd]

As an LGBT asexual, I feel I can say that the two really do have very little to do with each other. The LGBT community is very sexual for the most part which, obviously, is not what the asexual community is about at all. I think the reason for our being clumped in with them has to do with us being another minority with regards to our (a)sexuality, as well as wanting/needing more recognition. I don't have a problem with it, I just feel that I relate to the asexual community much better than the LGBT community as a whole.

[Lady Girl]

I always feel it is up to each person. Some may feel comfortable and a sense of belonging with LGBTQ and others may not.

[iamphoenixfire]

This is why I prefer the terms GSD (gender and sexual diversities) and GSM (Gender and sexual minorities). this would be because a) the alphabet soup problem goes away, b) it's a lot more inclusive, and c) there's less of the whole "very sexual stereotype" or the "not so sexual" stereotype. it's more.... human, i guess. its also nice for those of us who are in both communities like myself. personally i think that they're very different communities, speaking as one who has a place in both.

[ryutoshi]

This appears to be a popular topic of late

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/101089-should-we-really-want-to-join-the-lgbt/

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/101357-asexuals-in-glbtq/

[Spotastic]

If I could upvote iamphoenixfire any more I would. I definitely hate the alphabet soup problem, and GSM would make things so much more simple.

[Squirrel Combat]

I don't really care, honestly. But I do consider the two to have somewhat separate values. Either we retain our distinction or we clump them all into a new community with a new name or acronym.

[RTerroni]

Yes, in fact I have very different views on the 2.

[Scottthespy]

I think the 'lumping together' is a little annoying on the basis that the message we're trying for isn't the same, but on the other hand, a million small voices may not be heard shouting individually, where as all those voices shouting together is hard to ignore. It could be a case of hoping that the sheer numbers of non 'hetero-normative' people will make those still gabing about 'nature' and 'the evils of this or that way' and what not either see that we aren't as uncommon as we thought, or at least be intimidated enough that they think twice before taking on the community. Safety in numbers and all that. And while we as asexuals may not fully jive with the platform of the LGBT, we can both share the feeling of being perpelxingly hated by people for something we cant help. Its nice to have allies, at the very least.

[Squick]

I assume we're talking about whether asexuals should present themselves as another branch of the LGBT tree?

First, I don't believe we face even remotely the same issues as gays and transgenders. I don't remember the last time I was discriminated against for being asexual (or whatever it is exactly that I am). I'd be surprised if anyone here had been discriminated against for it in a way that could be specifically pinned down to their lack of sexuality (rather than just being single or, of course, being homoaseuxal). Has anyone here has ever been beaten up and left for dead for not wanting sex? Been prevented from marrying or adopting children or seeing a loved one in the hospital because they don't want sex? Maybe it's happened--I don't know--but it's surely not a common issue?

But as for whether asexuals should be lumped in with all misunderstood sexualities and gender identities, sure (although I'm a little unclear on the larger purpose). In my view, a lack of sexuality is a sexuality.

[Sally]

I think the only way minorities can/should be lumped together is in their relation to the majority -- in this case, heterosexuals. All minority groups feel somewhat "one-down" compared to the majority. But imagine a situation where there were no minorities -- i.e., the diverse groups in a population were in equal numbers. Would asexuals have anything in common with GLBT people? I don't think so.

[Xavy]

I agree that the asexuality community should not be lumped in with the LGBT community. Although I am a big ally of the LGBT movement, I think us asexuals need to forge our own way and not piggy back on the LGBT movement. My reason is simply that the LGBT community represents sexual people and we are not sexual people. I don't see asexuality as a sexual orientation but rather as a lack of a sexual orientation.

[Null_and_Void]

I agree that the asexuality community should not be lumped in with the LGBT community. Although I am a big ally of the LGBT movement, I think us asexuals need to forge our own way and not piggy back on the LGBT movement. My reason is simply that the LGBT community represents sexual people and we are not sexual people. I don't see asexuality as a sexual orientation but rather as a lack of a sexual orientation.

Well to be fair, transgender/transexual people aren't inherently sexual and it is not a sexual orientation.

That being said, I also do not think asexuality or the asexuality spectrum belong in the LGBT movement. As I said on a similar thread, they are fighting for legal rights, we just want to spread visibility and stop stereotypes, misunderstandings, and discrimination. Not to "belittle" asexuality and the asexuality spectrum, but be fair, we don't have nearly as big of a fight as LGBT people do.

[zabz]

First, I don't believe we face even remotely the same issues as gays and transgenders. I don't remember the last time I was discriminated against for being asexual (or whatever it is exactly that I am). I'd be surprised if anyone here had been discriminated against for it in a way that could be specifically pinned down to their lack of sexuality (rather than just being single or, of course, being homoaseuxal). Has anyone here has ever been beaten up and left for dead for not wanting sex? Been prevented from marrying or adopting children or seeing a loved one in the hospital because they don't want sex? Maybe it's happened--I don't know--but it's surely not a common issue?

Me.

When I came out as asexual, I had people tell me - to my face - I was wrong, I was ill, I could be fixed, had I seen a doctor. I have lost friends because I came out; one male friend tried to pressurise me into having sex with him to 'change my mind.' My colleagues at my new job keep pressurising me to explain why I have no partner, and will not take 'I'm not really interested in relationships' for an answer. I have no box to tick on the diversity form with HR, but feel unable to raise the issue for fear of being outed. I often feel on edge at work when people talk about relationships in case they notice - this is especially hard right now as two girls in my office are getting married soon. I have been called cold, frigid, broken, up myself, snotty, aloof, and that asexuality is just me trying to be better than everyone else.

Before I came out as ace, I was out as a lesbian. None of the above happened. I can honestly say I faced no discrimination for being gay whatsoever. This all came about because I was asexual.

So yes, some of us do face the same issues as LGBT+ people. Some of us have had it worse being ace than being gay.

[arcaneEnthusiast]

I'd be fine with being in a lgbt group even though our experiences are different. I kind of see it as a place for people with misunderstood identities sexual or gender related. While we may not have as great of a stigma against us, there is still ignorance and I like to be in a group that wants to fix the ignorance.

Some people are saying that it's not a type of sexuality, but that's not all that lgbt does. Seeing as trans and sexualities are completely different from each other, I don't really see the problem in asexuality being included.

[Whispearl]

The way I see it, if you are of a sexuality or gender identity that is prone to discrimination or bullying or erasure then you should get support from LGBT+ groups. And to argue that asexual issues are different from LGBT issues is something I don't quite understand because even within the existing acronym, gender identity issues and sexual identity issues are very different too. I mean, I'm not gonna parade in the streets to be included in that group, or disown you if you don't stick the A at the end, but I personally don't see the problem with it.

[Khalil]

I agree, we're not sexual period. The distance between us and the lgbt is just as wide as the distance between us and heterosexuals. We're equally distant from both. It's illogical to join either of them. In fact homoxesuals and heterosexuals have more in common with each other than either of them have with us; they're both Sexual, we're Asexual.

[Batman's Ace]

I agree, we're not sexual period. The distance between us and the lgbt is just as wide as the distance between us and heterosexuals. We're equally distant from both. It's illogical to join either of them. In fact homoxesuals and heterosexuals have more in common with each other than either of them have with us; they're both Sexual, we're Asexual.

While there are some similarities of experience, especially when it comes to majority rejection, in our case the majority includes both heterosexuals and many other sexual minorities, who often don't seem to realize that they risk looking at us the same way they hate being looked at.

Also, for those of us who are in conservative areas/religious communities, being seen as part of LGBTETC could reduce our credibility rather than improve it, and I'm pretty sure I'd like to avoid being targeted as a sexual deviant living in sin or whatever they come up with.

[Selatla]

firstly, i dont have anything against lgbt.

lgbt and asexuality are completely different from each other.

asexuality should not be clumped with lgbt

Question: Why lump anyone into any group at all? We're already in one huge group ... "Human". Our differences are human, our emotions are shared, our basic needs and desires are the same, etc etc etc. Why all the separation? I always had a problem with that.

[waster60268]

I feel that A falls pretty solidly under the delightfully expansive "queer" umbrella: having no sexual tendency puts people in a similar minority within the human population as the homosexual or bisexual minorities, and an asexual's romantic orientations can still be non-heteronormative. Capital-letter L G or B are designations I'm not personally comfortable hitching the A cart to because, as other have pointed out, LGB is largely about active and practiced sexual orientation. (T confuses me a bit because it's not a sexual orientation unto itself, but I do feel it's a legitimate queer/non-normative gender identity in a similar way that A is a legitimate queer/non-normative sexual identity.)

And thanks for sharing your struggles, zabz. I've also had the experience of my asexuality being disbelieved and pathologized (in different contexts and ways, but it hurts and discriminates all the same).

[Ashmedai]

I agree. Although I'm grey ace, I still identify myself as straight. Being clumped in with LGBT just isn't fitting for me. Having a label that puts you under the LGBT spectrum while being straight is quite awkward.

[Sally]

zabz, on 20 Apr 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

When I came out as asexual, I had people tell me - to my face - I was wrong, I was ill, I could be fixed, had I seen a doctor. I have lost friends because I came out; one male friend tried to pressurise me into having sex with him to 'change my mind.' My colleagues at my new job keep pressurising me to explain why I have no partner, and will not take 'I'm not really interested in relationships' for an answer. I have no box to tick on the diversity form with HR, but feel unable to raise the issue for fear of being outed. I often feel on edge at work when people talk about relationships in case they notice - this is especially hard right now as two girls in my office are getting married soon. I have been called cold, frigid, broken, up myself, snotty, aloof, and that asexuality is just me trying to be better than everyone else.

Before I came out as ace, I was out as a lesbian. None of the above happened. I can honestly say I faced no discrimination for being gay whatsoever. This all came about because I was asexual.

So yes, some of us do face the same issues as LGBT+ people. Some of us have had it worse being ace than being gay.

Those "friends" who were saying all those things were not friends. Your colleagues at work deserve a "Sorry, that's private" and a change of subject, and that's all.

As far as having had it worse being ace than being gay, are you kidding? Read a little bit about it -- recent stuff, for instance, all the things being said in the US states that are having gay marriage campaigns. And teenagers killing themselves because they have been unmercifully bullied. And then about 10 years ago, people still being killed for being gay.

[TheBioNerd]

zabz, on 20 Apr 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

When I came out as asexual, I had people tell me - to my face - I was wrong, I was ill, I could be fixed, had I seen a doctor. I have lost friends because I came out; one male friend tried to pressurise me into having sex with him to 'change my mind.' My colleagues at my new job keep pressurising me to explain why I have no partner, and will not take 'I'm not really interested in relationships' for an answer. I have no box to tick on the diversity form with HR, but feel unable to raise the issue for fear of being outed. I often feel on edge at work when people talk about relationships in case they notice - this is especially hard right now as two girls in my office are getting married soon. I have been called cold, frigid, broken, up myself, snotty, aloof, and that asexuality is just me trying to be better than everyone else.

Before I came out as ace, I was out as a lesbian. None of the above happened. I can honestly say I faced no discrimination for being gay whatsoever. This all came about because I was asexual.

So yes, some of us do face the same issues as LGBT+ people. Some of us have had it worse being ace than being gay.

Those "friends" who were saying all those things were not friends. Your colleagues at work deserve a "Sorry, that's private" and a change of subject, and that's all.

As far as having had it worse being ace than being gay, are you kidding? Read a little bit about it -- recent stuff, for instance, all the things being said in the US states that are having gay marriage campaigns. And teenagers killing themselves because they have been unmercifully bullied. And then about 10 years ago, people still being killed for being gay.

I think she was mostly talking about her own experience, not saying that gays have it easier in general. Personally, I have experienced very little discrimination for being gay outside of my own household (I have pretty homophobic family members). Aside from that, my friends and people I meet have been very accepting and I've never had to think twice about telling someone my orientation. I really think that mostly depends on where you're located and what communities you surround yourself with (religious communities are generally more homophobic than most). As far as being asexual goes, I can't really say either way what kind of discrimination there is because I haven't really come out yet. I just think it's unfair to say one is worse than the other because that really depends on the individual in question.

[Sally]

TheBioNerd, on 20 Apr 2014 - 6:24 PM, said:

Sally, on 20 Apr 2014 - 6:16 PM, said:

zabz, on 20 Apr 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:zabz, on 20 Apr 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

When I came out as asexual, I had people tell me - to my face - I was wrong, I was ill, I could be fixed, had I seen a doctor. I have lost friends because I came out; one male friend tried to pressurise me into having sex with him to 'change my mind.' My colleagues at my new job keep pressurising me to explain why I have no partner, and will not take 'I'm not really interested in relationships' for an answer. I have no box to tick on the diversity form with HR, but feel unable to raise the issue for fear of being outed. I often feel on edge at work when people talk about relationships in case they notice - this is especially hard right now as two girls in my office are getting married soon. I have been called cold, frigid, broken, up myself, snotty, aloof, and that asexuality is just me trying to be better than everyone else.

Before I came out as ace, I was out as a lesbian. None of the above happened. I can honestly say I faced no discrimination for being gay whatsoever. This all came about because I was asexual.

So yes, some of us do face the same issues as LGBT+ people. Some of us have had it worse being ace than being gay.

Those "friends" who were saying all those things were not friends. Your colleagues at work deserve a "Sorry, that's private" and a change of subject, and that's all.

As far as having had it worse being ace than being gay, are you kidding? Read a little bit about it -- recent stuff, for instance, all the things being said in the US states that are having gay marriage campaigns. And teenagers killing themselves because they have been unmercifully bullied. And then about 10 years ago, people still being killed for being gay.

I think she was mostly talking about her own experience, not saying that gays have it easier in general. Personally, I have experienced very little discrimination for being gay outside of my own household (I have pretty homophobic family members). Aside from that, my friends and people I meet have been very accepting and I've never had to think twice about telling someone my orientation. I really think that mostly depends on where you're located and what communities you surround yourself with (religious communities are generally more homophobic than most). As far as being asexual goes, I can't really say either way what kind of discrimination there is because I haven't really come out yet. I just think it's unfair to say one is worse than the other because that really depends on the individual in question.

You just said it depends on where you're located and what communities you're in -- so it doesn't depend on the individual in question.

I shouldn't continue with the oppression Olympics, but considering the history, I don't think it's unfair to say that gays have suffered more. And I mean real physical/economic discrimination, not just supposed friends making rude comments.

[TheBioNerd]

TheBioNerd, on 20 Apr 2014 - 6:24 PM, said:

Sally, on 20 Apr 2014 - 6:16 PM, said:

zabz, on 20 Apr 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:zabz, on 20 Apr 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

When I came out as asexual, I had people tell me - to my face - I was wrong, I was ill, I could be fixed, had I seen a doctor. I have lost friends because I came out; one male friend tried to pressurise me into having sex with him to 'change my mind.' My colleagues at my new job keep pressurising me to explain why I have no partner, and will not take 'I'm not really interested in relationships' for an answer. I have no box to tick on the diversity form with HR, but feel unable to raise the issue for fear of being outed. I often feel on edge at work when people talk about relationships in case they notice - this is especially hard right now as two girls in my office are getting married soon. I have been called cold, frigid, broken, up myself, snotty, aloof, and that asexuality is just me trying to be better than everyone else.

Before I came out as ace, I was out as a lesbian. None of the above happened. I can honestly say I faced no discrimination for being gay whatsoever. This all came about because I was asexual.

So yes, some of us do face the same issues as LGBT+ people. Some of us have had it worse being ace than being gay.

Those "friends" who were saying all those things were not friends. Your colleagues at work deserve a "Sorry, that's private" and a change of subject, and that's all.

As far as having had it worse being ace than being gay, are you kidding? Read a little bit about it -- recent stuff, for instance, all the things being said in the US states that are having gay marriage campaigns. And teenagers killing themselves because they have been unmercifully bullied. And then about 10 years ago, people still being killed for being gay.

I think she was mostly talking about her own experience, not saying that gays have it easier in general. Personally, I have experienced very little discrimination for being gay outside of my own household (I have pretty homophobic family members). Aside from that, my friends and people I meet have been very accepting and I've never had to think twice about telling someone my orientation. I really think that mostly depends on where you're located and what communities you surround yourself with (religious communities are generally more homophobic than most). As far as being asexual goes, I can't really say either way what kind of discrimination there is because I haven't really come out yet. I just think it's unfair to say one is worse than the other because that really depends on the individual in question.

You just said it depends on where you're located and what communities you're in -- so it doesn't depend on the individual in question.

I shouldn't continue with the oppression Olympics, but considering the history, I don't think it's unfair to say that gays have suffered more. And I mean real physical/economic discrimination, not just supposed friends making rude comments.

What I mean is that it depends on the individual in question, typically with regards to where they are located and what communities they're in.

I agree that I don't think it's unfair to say the LGBT community has suffered more. Overall, there's no doubt in my mind they have. What I meant to point out is that you seemed to have the impression that zabz was saying all asexuals had it worse than gays, but I believed that she was just pooling from her own experience. Since I feel similarly as her with regards to being gay, I felt the need to jump in. I don't see much persecution going on in my area towards gays. I know that it goes on in other areas, however, I don't think that was the point of her post. I think she just wanted to make the point that some asexuals take a lot of heat too. Not just gays.

[Sally]

TheBioNerd, on 20 Apr 2014 - 6:47 PM, said:

What I mean is that it depends on the individual in question, typically with regards to where they are located and what communities they're in.

I agree that I don't think it's unfair to say the LGBT community has suffered more. Overall, there's no doubt in my mind they have. What I meant to point out is that you seemed to have the impression that zabz was saying all asexuals had it worse than gays, but I believed that she was just pooling from her own experience. Since I feel similarly as her with regards to being gay, I felt the need to jump in. I don't see much persecution going on in my area towards gays. I know that it goes on in other areas, however, I don't think that was the point of her post. I think she just wanted to make the point that some asexuals take a lot of heat too. Not just gays.

I think she can speak for herself. It's difficult enough for all of us to figure out what others are saying, but it's almost impossible to read person x's opinions through what person y's saying.

[TheBioNerd]

TheBioNerd, on 20 Apr 2014 - 6:47 PM, said:

What I mean is that it depends on the individual in question, typically with regards to where they are located and what communities they're in.

I agree that I don't think it's unfair to say the LGBT community has suffered more. Overall, there's no doubt in my mind they have. What I meant to point out is that you seemed to have the impression that zabz was saying all asexuals had it worse than gays, but I believed that she was just pooling from her own experience. Since I feel similarly as her with regards to being gay, I felt the need to jump in. I don't see much persecution going on in my area towards gays. I know that it goes on in other areas, however, I don't think that was the point of her post. I think she just wanted to make the point that some asexuals take a lot of heat too. Not just gays.

I think she can speak for herself. It's difficult enough for all of us to figure out what others are saying, but it's almost impossible to read person x's opinions through what person y's saying.

Which is why I originally commented...it seemed like you were putting words in her mouth. If she wants to come on here and tell me I completely misinterpreted what she said, then that's fine with me. I just saw what I believed to be a misunderstanding on your part and thought I might try to clarify.