[mewi]

Okay this is really to discuss recent things I have seen on various websites that have bothered me and I want to know if others think the same way. For the record I am lesbian and not asexual in the least and I live in the United States and do not know much ( in detail ) about other countries equal rights issues.

So on these websites/news channels there is a person claiming to be asexual and I am often irked by the somewhat insulting manner that they go about describing the LGBT community. They often brand us all about "sex" and it is extremely offensive, being LGBT is hardly just about sex, not even remotely. We have families we have strong emotional attachments to our partners, more times than not when we marry someone we are far more likely to be emotionally attracted to them than we are sexually attracted to them.

And not to sound mean, I don't know if any of you have seen these people making us feel all about the "sex" but to me if you date someone who is of the opposite gender that makes you "straight" if you date someone who is the same gender that makes you "gay" by definition and so on... In reality, the usage of such words aren't about sexual desire, but more as who you choose to be with romantically. Making it seem just like sex, and nothing but sex, is a card usually played by the people trying to strip other people from the rights and liberties.

So in all heartfulnesh can we please stop making LGBT people seem just about sexual matters?

Well thats my feelings on that...



PS: I'm also curious on what rights are being violated for the asexual group in particular that the "LGBT" group isn't already fighting for? and in my opinion "LGBT" pretty much covers asexuality in terms of the LGB and T part... Not so much the S I think it should cover the S in some manner but ah well... I've heard this term a few times "The asexual rights movement". I also read something by some user here referencing matters that really involve overall human rights and are not particular to the asexual group. I can understand the issue of rights when it comes to medical diagnosis. But I think it would be extremely hard to diagnose the difference between a sexual dysfunction and a simple lack of sexual desire, would you not agree? and is asexuality really defined as a disorder in any medical journals in the US? o.o

[ProdeFemme]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

So in all heartfulnesh can we please stop making LGBT people seem just about sexual matters?

Am I reading this right? Are you countering an ace making sweeping generalizations about the LGBT community by making sweeping generalizations about the asexual community? Is that supposed to be tongue in cheek or what?

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

PS: I'm also curious on what rights are being violated for the asexual group in particular that the "LGBT" group isn't already fighting for? and in my opinion "LGBT" pretty much covers asexuality in terms of the LGB and T part... Not so much the S I think it should cover the S in some manner but ah well... I've heard this term a few times "The asexual rights movement". I also read something by some user here referencing matters that really involve overall human rights and are not particular to the asexual group. I can understand the issue of rights when it comes to medical diagnosis. But I think it would be extremely hard to diagnose the difference between a sexual dysfunction and a simple lack of sexual desire, would you not agree? and is asexuality really defined as a disorder in any medical journals in the US? o.o

Evidently, the LGBT community isn't actively fighting to get asexuality off the mental disorder list or you wouldn't be asking if it's really even defined as a disorder.
And to further my last sentence as a matter of fact, yes, asexuality is in the DSM. Not just a medical journal, the medical journal; the one used to diagnose and treat mental disorders, listed as Hypoactive sexual desire disorder:

Quote

Hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) is defined as the persistent or recurrent extreme aversion to, absence of, and avoidance of all, or almost all, genital sexual contact with a sexual partner. Synonyms for HSDD include sexual aversion, inhibited sexual desire, sexual apathy , and sexual anorexia.

Read more: http://www.minddisor...l#ixzz0QAYBUvUN

And considering 'lack of sexual attraction' is the primary criteria for being asexual, and as you yourself have just stated LGBT groups don't deal with sex expressly but instead romantic inclinations, I would think by that omission it would appear that the LGBT community isn't really covering asexuality that well at all. It isn't even really suited too anyway, since as you point out, it's dealing with a different (read: emotional) aspect of attraction altogether.

[V]

There are some asexuals that feel like anything is suddenly all about sex if any sex at all is involved with it. Those people need to calm down and remember that 99% of people are sexual and they (the asexual) are the unusual one. LGBT might not be all about sex but it is based on being different sexually so its easy to see it as being all about sex. The hypoactive disorder being in the DSM is interesting but I doubt anyone has been persecuted for it the way people have been for being gay.

[ProdeFemme]

V, on Sep 4 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

There are some asexuals that feel like anything is suddenly all about sex if any sex at all is involved with it. Those people need to calm down and remember that 99% of people are sexual and they (the asexual) are the unusual one. LGBT might not be all about sex but it is based on being different sexually so its easy to see it as being all about sex. The hypoactive disorder being in the DSM is interesting but I doubt anyone has been persecuted for it the way people have been for being gay.

Who said anything about being persecuted? I am simply stating it is in the DSM, and it would take very little surfing through Aven to note the frustration and anger many people experience from being told asexuality isn't real. I for one dislike the connotation that I'm a closet lesbian, because everyone who's normal wants to screw... something; so I must be hiding an alternative lifestyle.
Just because I'm not getting the shit knocked out of me by three people for being asexual doesn't mean I should happily except the psychiatric/medical world thinks I am faulty and need fixing

[mewi]

"Am I reading this right? Are you countering an ace making sweeping generalizations about the LGBT community by making sweeping generalizations about the asexual community? Is that supposed to be tongue in cheek or what?"

What "sweeping generalization" did I make? I simply requested that certain people who fall into the asexual group and speak for the asexual group stop making us lesbian/gays...etc seem like just about sex. I think that was a fair request and I was sort of hoping that those who were asexual and understanding try to confront those of the asexual minority that do make us to seem about just sex.

As for medical stuff regarding asexual, now that you mentioned DSM and asking a question regarding HSDD is characterized as a lack or absence of sexual fantasies and desire for sexual activity for some period of time. I'd imagine one would first have to have sexual desire to fall under such a classification as having a lack of sexual desires disorder? Maybe it needs to be modified, but completely removed? I'd have to disagree with that. I'd imagine if you were once sexually active and suddenly you stopped being so... then you probably have some form of disorder? or that it might be a good idea to medically check if you have a disorder? o.O I don't know the exact causes of someone to come out as asexual, so please clarify for me if I am wrong here ^^"

"LGBT might not be all about sex but it is based on being different sexually so its easy to see it as being all about sex."~V

It might be easy for someone who is homophobic. They only look at one word and take that one word and completely exaggerate it hence homoSEXual and can only see the SEX in it, but in reality the SEX in homosexuality is a very very very small part about being homosexual. In general we don't want equal rights because we want to have sex with the same gender, we want equal rights to be with our girlfriend/boyfriend without fear of persecution/unequal treatment under the law/etc.

[ProdeFemme]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

What "sweeping generalization" did I make? I simply requested that certain people who fall into the asexual group and speak for the asexual group stop making us lesbian/gays...etc seem like just about sex. I think that was a fair request and I was sort of hoping that those who were asexual and understanding try to confront those of the asexual minority that do make us to seem about just sex.

Who are these "certain people"? We are not an activist group of any sort, no one speaks for "us", they speak for themselves. So you tell me who our "leaders" are that have offended you, and I'll seriously discuss this supposed problem with aces labeling the whole LGBT community as sex-crazed. I've never heard this plight, the "rights of Asexuals" that doesn't even make sense, Asexual awareness yes, but rights? Anyone who has convinced you they speak on behalf of the asexual community has duped you. And if you've just assumed who you've heard was some type of leader, well, you know what they say about assuming. There's no activism for something people don't do. I have the right to not fling poo at people, but just because I get on tv and talk about not flinging poo doesn't mean I speak for every human on Earth who doesn't fling poo. Sharing how I feel about poo flinging on a public forum does not make me a group leader of people who refrain from flinging poo. Still unclear about generalizations? Well then, let's continue

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

...I'd imagine one would first have to have sexual desire to fall under such a classification as having a lack of sexual desires disorder?

Yes, wouldn't that be nice? Let's all imagine for a minute that it was reserved solely for those who suddenly lost their libido at a specified point in time. Other than that, no one questions you when you say you're asexual, everyone is all excepting and knows what the hell you're talking about; no more "you haven't met the right person' or 'you're secretly <insert crazy fetish here>' or 'you're frigid/a prude' or 'there's no such thing' or 'you're gay and in denial' or 'you were sexually abused as a child' etc. Well that was fun, I like imagining.


I went to a pride parade, I guess it'd be 6 or 7 years ago now. The two men near me laughing, making plenty of questionable remarks and simulating oral sex periodically didn't convey much of a message about equal treatment under the law. You wouldn't appreciate it if I judged the whole LGBT community based on the actions of a couple of dudes (and for the purpose of simplicity I'll stick to that example; I could draw on a hell of a lot more I seen that day; not just those two) doing what seemed to be having fun celebrating their sexually more then celebrating their emotional connection. You want aces in general to acknowledge the emotional connection, acceptance and need for equality for the LGBT community (which I see around here pretty consistently) yet your open letter to aces with such quips as

Quote

what rights are being violated for the asexual group in particular that the "LGBT" group isn't already fighting for?

insinuating we should have a big glass of stfu and be grateful since the LGBT is already doing all the legwork for us is a digital version of an olive branch?

[V]

Glad I could annoy the both of you in such a short post. You two have fun assuming the worst about anyone that posts a contrary opinion.

[ProdeFemme]

V, on Sep 4 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Glad I could annoy the both of you in such a short post. You two have fun assuming the worst about anyone that posts a contrary opinion.

Annoy? I simply responded. Are you always so quick to flatter yourself?

[Siggy]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 11:54 AM, said:

So on these websites/news channels there is a person claiming to be asexual and I am often irked by the somewhat insulting manner that they go about describing the LGBT community. They often brand us all about "sex" and it is extremely offensive, being LGBT is hardly just about sex, not even remotely. We have families we have strong emotional attachments to our partners, more times than not when we marry someone we are far more likely to be emotionally attracted to them than we are sexually attracted to them.

Maybe you should provide a specific news story or website which said this. Otherwise, we don't really know who and what you're talking about.

I think in general, the online asexual community does not think orientation is just about sex and sexual desire. In fact, that's sort of one of the central lessons of the asexual community. We draw a distinction between sexual orientation and romantic orientation, and recognize that they are not always aligned. The majority of people here are so-called romantic asexuals, meaning they fall in love and develop emotional connections, but lack sexual attraction. You think they don't know that there's more to orientation than just sex? You need to hang out with us a bit more.

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 11:54 AM, said:

PS: I'm also curious on what rights are being violated for the asexual group in particular that the "LGBT" group isn't already fighting for? and in my opinion "LGBT" pretty much covers asexuality in terms of the LGB and T part... Not so much the S I think it should cover the S in some manner but ah well... I've heard this term a few times "The asexual rights movement". I also read something by some user here referencing matters that really involve overall human rights and are not particular to the asexual group. I can understand the issue of rights when it comes to medical diagnosis. But I think it would be extremely hard to diagnose the difference between a sexual dysfunction and a simple lack of sexual desire, would you not agree? and is asexuality really defined as a disorder in any medical journals in the US? o.o

Incidentally, yes, asexuality is defined as a disorder by the DSM, but only if the person experiences “marked distress or interpersonal difficulty”. But I think the issue isn't so much asexual rights, but rather asexual visibility and education (thus the Asexual Visibility and Education Network). Asexuality is so obscure, that A) people misunderstand it, or deny its existence, B) most asexuals remain confused throughout life, and C) the public misses out on any insights into human sexuality which could be provided by the existence of asexuals.

Also, just because LGBT is fighting something doesn't mean we can't fight for it too. Seriously, don't you want allies? I'm an ally whether you like or not!

[that_american_kid]

I feel like you're taking away a point that isn't being made- that LGBT people in particular are considered by asexuals to be extra-sexual.
What I have heard people say is that they're not always comfortable in Pride groups because those groups can be more sexually focused than the asexual in question is comfortable with. My school's pride group is not that way, but I can understand that that could be the case. I also understand that straight people frequently think of LGBT people strictly in terms of who they "do". Of course this is unfair! Everybody is more than their sexual orientation.
I don't think, from reading AVEN, that people here consider LGBT people to be any more sexual than straight people. Some people merely cite too much sex talk as a reason for not being comfortable at their local pride group. You will notice, if you read enough topics, that people talk at least as often about being embarassed/frusterated by straight friends talking about sex too much.
It's probably also worth mentioning that an asexual is likely to be much more sensative to sex talk and sexual situations than a sexual person is. We notice it more than they do- that doesn't mean we believe it's your whole personality. And we certainly don't believe that the LGBT community is more sexual than the straight population.*

*based off of reading AVEN too often. Not because I claim to be some "leader" in the ase community.

[mewi]

I'll respond with more detail a bit later, however I'd like to request that everyone stay calm and avoid the overly sarcastic remarks that don't really benefit the conversation but instead alienate/confuse the person(s) who started it/participating in it...

[bristrek87]

Can I just pop in to say this? In the various TV spots on asexuality that I've seen on YouTube (and I've been rooting around it a fair bit lately) nobody seems to do what you're claiming they do on a regular basis. I mean sure sometimes people point out that straight people are sexually attracted to the opposite gender, homosexuals to the same and bisexuals to both to then go on and say asexuals are sexually attracted to neither. Or how others like having sex and we don't.

But I've not seen this thing you claim is common of people going on and claiming that all LGBT people are overly sexed. I'm with the person above on this, where have you seen this happen and do you have links?

[Saeleofu]

Wait wait wait I have to derail this topic for a moment...

Quote

and sexual anorexia.

WTF is sexual anorexia?




*waves to continue the thread*

[BokeKaeru]

Saeleofu, on Sep 4 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

Wait wait wait I have to derail this topic for a moment...

Quote

and sexual anorexia.

WTF is sexual anorexia?




*waves to continue the thread*

I guess it's supposed to convey extreme lack of sex, like sexual starvation or something. It is an unfortunate way of wording it.

EDIT: I think the reason that the HSDD diagnosis is worrying to asexuals is because most people, psychological and psychiatric professionals included, would not necessarily differentiate between a normally sexual person who lost their drive and was distressed because of that and an asexual who had never cared about or had always been repulsed by sex and was distressed because they were surrounded by the pressure to be sexual. Also, there's a potentially high possibility of asexuals (whether they know they are or not) being diagnosed with such a condition because their relationship with their sexual partner is strained for sex reasons - NOT because there's anything wrong with the asexual themselves.

[Sally]

ProdeFemme, on Sep 4 2009, 03:31 PM, said:

[There's no activism for something people don't do. I have the right to not fling poo at people, but just because I get on tv and talk about not flinging poo doesn't mean I speak for every human on Earth who doesn't fling poo. Sharing how I feel about poo flinging on a public forum does not make me a group leader of people who refrain from flinging poo.

Poo! poo poo poo flung all over the place!

What a great post, PF. Hahahahaha -- poo flinger!

[sinisterporpoise]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Okay this is really to discuss recent things I have seen on various websites that have bothered me and I want to know if others think the same way. For the record I am lesbian and not asexual in the least and I live in the United States and do not know much ( in detail ) about other countries equal rights issues.

So on these websites/news channels there is a person claiming to be asexual and I am often irked by the somewhat insulting manner that they go about describing the LGBT community. They often brand us all about "sex" and it is extremely offensive, being LGBT is hardly just about sex, not even remotely. We have families we have strong emotional attachments to our partners, more times than not when we marry someone we are far more likely to be emotionally attracted to them than we are sexually attracted to them.

And not to sound mean, I don't know if any of you have seen these people making us feel all about the "sex" but to me if you date someone who is of the opposite gender that makes you "straight" if you date someone who is the same gender that makes you "gay" by definition and so on... In reality, the usage of such words aren't about sexual desire, but more as who you choose to be with romantically. Making it seem just like sex, and nothing but sex, is a card usually played by the people trying to strip other people from the rights and liberties.

So in all heartfulnesh can we please stop making LGBT people seem just about sexual matters?

Well thats my feelings on that...



PS: I'm also curious on what rights are being violated for the asexual group in particular that the "LGBT" group isn't already fighting for? and in my opinion "LGBT" pretty much covers asexuality in terms of the LGB and T part... Not so much the S I think it should cover the S in some manner but ah well... I've heard this term a few times "The asexual rights movement". I also read something by some user here referencing matters that really involve overall human rights and are not particular to the asexual group. I can understand the issue of rights when it comes to medical diagnosis. But I think it would be extremely hard to diagnose the difference between a sexual dysfunction and a simple lack of sexual desire, would you not agree? and is asexuality really defined as a disorder in any medical journals in the US? o.o

Mewi, if you have a problem with the way an asexual is describing something on his or her blog or column. Take it iup with the columnist. This [includes me. I'll delete insulting comments on my Examiner.com columns, but I think you're missing something here.

Many asexuals are annoyed that people make the tacit assupmtion that they are gay or broken. I think you're also picking up that many of us feel we don't have much in common with the LGBT community (unless we're homoromantic or transgendered.) Some of us also are uncomfortable with being labeled as queer because of our religious backgrounds. I'm not saying it's right. It simply is.

And by the way, being a "citizen journalist" trying to promote asexuality makes me a leader in no way. I think many bloggers inluding the Queers United guy do a better job of getting the message out than I do.

[Cerberus]

V, on Sep 4 2009, 08:32 PM, said:

Glad I could annoy the both of you in such a short post. You two have fun assuming the worst about anyone that posts a contrary opinion.

Edgy!

Or you're a trite asshole who amuses us.

One of the two.

[Cerberus]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

I'll respond with more detail a bit later, however I'd like to request that everyone stay calm and avoid the overly sarcastic remarks that don't really benefit the conversation but instead alienate/confuse the person(s) who started it/participating in it...

Well, I'm homoromantic and trans and I've been with the lgbtq community since even before I knew I was ace or trans as a strong ally. I've always seen as necessarily part of the queer community even if some religious asexuals have deluded themselves that their pastors wouldn't hate them just as much for not marrying and pumping out the kids as they hate homosexuals. It's about being a minority not being "sexually pure", though I do love to throw out that "sexually pure" garbage when talking to homophobes.

I couldn't speak for the person you encountered, but I at least, and I would have assumed that a majority of asexuals do not buy-in to the garbage lies that lgbtq people are more sexual than heterosexuals (though some may blanch at just how kinky most people in general are (other asexuals, sexuals are pretty kinky almost to a default)). Certainly I would denounce that crap thoroughly as an example of a homophobic asexual, which is unfortunate, much as a homophobic black person or jew is unfortunate.

On discrimination, you're right that there is no active direct discrimination for asexuals in specific as not enough people know of our existence to grow a strong resistance to our existence. However, there are signs of that coming to pass as we get better at accomplishing our goal of visibility. Already there have been clashes with pastors, sex therapists, and some lgbtqs who have violently reacted to our existence and have tried to assert our non-existence and doubt the legitimacy of our sexuality.

As a lesbian who knows her history, you know that especially for women, those who doubt the legitimacy of a sexuality can move into "reparative" methods to assert themselves which can include rape.

And rape is something that has occurred to asexuals (though few possess the vocabulary to describe it as such) with many conspiring to their own rapes by the assumption both that women aren't "supposed" to enjoy it or that consent is supposed to be a given and no, even long term no in a relationship is a viable option.

There's also the DSM thing.

And as we come more out and especially as we align more closely with the queer community in general, I would expect to see more active resistance. Already we've seen resistance in some churches with asexuals who have come out to pastors (even one's preaching no sex before marriage) instantly being told that they have to have sex consent or not and get married consent or not because God says to be fruitful and multiply.

Though we may not all know it, we all have the same enemies.

So yeah.

Back on the one douche, they're a douche. As a veteran of the queer community, you know as well as I that each subgroup as it's annoying members. Sexist gay men, transphobic lesbians, homophobic intersex people, and yes, aphobic queers and queerphobic aces. It's part of the inherent soup.

We're still fighting on the same front lines so don't take it out on the rest of the community.

That goes double to the odd increase in homophobic asexuals in this forum since I was last here. Seriously morons, what the fuck?

[oneofthesun]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

So on these websites/news channels there is a person claiming to be asexual and I am often irked by the somewhat insulting manner that they go about describing the LGBT community. They often brand us all about "sex" and it is extremely offensive, being LGBT is hardly just about sex, not even remotely.

I know I'm late here, but... LGBT people might not be all about sex, but the LGBT community is. Since atypical sexual desire is the only thing all LGBT people have in common, it's what they talk about when they get together.

[Sally]

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

I'll respond with more detail a bit later, however I'd like to request that everyone stay calm and avoid the overly sarcastic remarks that don't really benefit the conversation but instead alienate/confuse the person(s) who started it/participating in it...

Are you moderating this discussion? Should we be quiet and wait for the "more detail"?

[Cerberus]

oneofthesun, on Sep 6 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

So on these websites/news channels there is a person claiming to be asexual and I am often irked by the somewhat insulting manner that they go about describing the LGBT community. They often brand us all about "sex" and it is extremely offensive, being LGBT is hardly just about sex, not even remotely.

I know I'm late here, but... LGBT people might not be all about sex, but the LGBT community is. Since atypical sexual desire is the only thing all LGBT people have in common, it's what they talk about when they get together.

A bit of an overgeneralization and one I can attest to being deeply in said community as an asexual.

Many talk about other things.

What you and other young asexuals may be responding to is the fact that lgbtq people are less closeted about their sexuality than say evangelical christians (though I would argue the latter certainly spends longer describing sex acts than the former) and thus feels less shame and talks more in depth about it. The same level of variety and kink and yes, even description exists in heterosexual communities, it's just often separated from say us, by the walls of shame and the closet.

In other words, all the sexuals are sexual creatures with fetishes and kinks and sexuality, the heterosexual world just uses a bunch of problematic code words and moral hypocrisy.

Cause yeah, in the lesbian and gay male mixers, it's got the same proportion of baby talk, politics, and job sharing as any other mixer I've seen.

[der Einrad]

mewi,

For further reading. Part of me wishes these threads would be consolidated, because these are the same questions over and over.

(I would not be surpristed if the moderators built a drinking game around this issue.)

Asexuality - an orientation?
Homosexuality is to homophobe as asexuality is to...
should asexuality be put in the GLBT group? (oop, faux pas there, that should be LGBT)

Even gay men and lesbians have very little in common with one another, aside from who hates them. I personally place little value in letting the people who hate you define your identity, but there is quite an industry built around it, so what can you do.

People of any "orientation" have different degrees of extroversion in their sexual expression. (Zero being one of those degrees.) We all get unwanted attention from time to time. Creeps abound. For what it's worth, I, for one, promise not to suspect you of having a sinfully fabulous non-stop sex life. Go forth, and enjoy acceptably occasional sex.

[oneofthesun]

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

A bit of an overgeneralization and one I can attest to being deeply in said community as an asexual.

Many talk about other things.

Sure they do. But if they have other things in common, chances are they would be friends even even without the community. Put a bunch of gay strangers together and odds are they will talk about sex/dating.

Look at it this way. The LGBT community exists for only two reasons: 1) To fight for their own rights and 2) To make it easier to find dates. Both of those things have to do with sex. The community exists because of sex. Ergo, sex is its main focus.

Sometime straight people ask questions like "Why do you need to have a gay bowling club? It's just a bowling club." The answer of course is that the purpose of said bowling club is to help gay people can meet each other and find dates. Even if they talk about other things the club exists because of sex.

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

What you and other young asexuals may be responding to is the fact that lgbtq people are less closeted about their sexuality than say evangelical christians (though I would argue the latter certainly spends longer describing sex acts than the former) and thus feels less shame and talks more in depth about it. The same level of variety and kink and yes, even description exists in heterosexual communities, it's just often separated from say us, by the walls of shame and the closet.

Same difference IMO.

I identified as queer myself. Queer people are fine, but the queer community has issues.

[Cerberus]

oneofthesun, on Sep 6 2009, 10:32 PM, said:

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

A bit of an overgeneralization and one I can attest to being deeply in said community as an asexual.

Many talk about other things.

Sure they do. But if they have other things in common, chances are they would be friends even even without the community. Put a bunch of gay strangers together and odds are they will talk about sex/dating.

Look at it this way. The LGBT community exists for only two reasons: 1) To fight for their own rights and 2) To make it easier to find dates. Both of those things have to do with sex. The community exists because of sex. Ergo, sex is its main focus.

Sometime straight people ask questions like "Why do you need to have a gay bowling club? It's just a bowling club." The answer of course is that the purpose of said bowling club is to help gay people can meet each other and find dates. Even if they talk about other things the club exists because of sex.

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

What you and other young asexuals may be responding to is the fact that lgbtq people are less closeted about their sexuality than say evangelical christians (though I would argue the latter certainly spends longer describing sex acts than the former) and thus feels less shame and talks more in depth about it. The same level of variety and kink and yes, even description exists in heterosexual communities, it's just often separated from say us, by the walls of shame and the closet.

Same difference IMO.

I identified as queer myself. Queer people are fine, but the queer community has issues.

Not really. If one were to form an asexual bowling league, would you say that it was about sex or celibacy?

Queer communities are first and foremost about community, aka finding crew you can hang with, being relatively assured that no one you're bowling with thinks that you're an evil deviant who should be raped or beaten to a pulp.

It's also about knowing that for the most part, people understand where you're coming from. You don't have to hesitate when you mention a same sex partner worrying that someone will freak out, you can bitch about things like Prop 8 without having some douche saying it's a great idea because fags deserve to go to hell, and yes, you can also scout for dates.

[oneofthesun]

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

Not really. If one were to form an asexual bowling league, would you say that it was about sex or celibacy?

Yes I would. Sexuality is what asexuals have in common. Without that said bowling league would not exist. The bowling league my grandfather belonged to was about being a senior citizen. A competitive bowling league is for people who want to compete. I could go on...

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

It's also about knowing that for the most part, people understand where you're coming from. You don't have to hesitate when you mention a same sex partner worrying that someone will freak out, you can bitch about things like Prop 8 without having some douche saying it's a great idea because fags deserve to go to hell,

Let's see... Same-sex partner... Obviously related to sex. Prop 8.... Related to society's acceptance of homosexual sex. Attitudes of religious people... Caused by what the Bible says about homosexual sex. What's the common theme here?

[Cerberus]

oneofthesun, on Sep 7 2009, 12:13 AM, said:

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

Not really. If one were to form an asexual bowling league, would you say that it was about sex or celibacy?

Yes I would. Sexuality is what asexuals have in common. Without that said bowling league would not exist. The bowling league my grandfather belonged to was about being a senior citizen. A competitive bowling league is for people who want to compete. I could go on...

Cerberus, on Sep 6 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

It's also about knowing that for the most part, people understand where you're coming from. You don't have to hesitate when you mention a same sex partner worrying that someone will freak out, you can bitch about things like Prop 8 without having some douche saying it's a great idea because fags deserve to go to hell,

Let's see... Same-sex partner... Obviously related to sex. Prop 8.... Related to society's acceptance of homosexual sex. Attitudes of religious people... Caused by what the Bible says about homosexual sex. What's the common theme here?

Ok.

But how is it then the fault of the community that you've chosen to distill their lives entirely to the aspect of sex? We're all connected by sex on that wavelength and every single human endeavor is unable to be removed from its connection to the human libido. Every last one of them, up to and including feeding the cat.

[Jethro]

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I think about someones orientation. I first decide if they are ase or not. then I sub-divide into romantic orientation. I understand that asexuality is so far outside most people's life experience that they wouldn't break down information this way even if we had perfect visibility. When I first heard people referred to as sexuals I though it sounded harsh, but it's what differentiates us form not only the LGBT but also the hetero-normative people. When I use that term it's not intended to minimize anyones life or personality, it's just to explain how I'm different.

[mewi]

I think that there is a common misconception regarding my initial post, but I have not seen this just "one time" but many times which lead me to here. I think a couple people within this thread would lead me to believe that my initial post was correct regarding the use of the "sex" reference on homosexuality.

Edit: Oh and I do not doubt the legitimacy of the asexual group in the least ^^"

[Carcer]

ProdeFemme, on Sep 4 2009, 07:15 PM, said:

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

So in all heartfulnesh can we please stop making LGBT people seem just about sexual matters?

Am I reading this right? Are you countering an ace making sweeping generalizations about the LGBT community by making sweeping generalizations about the asexual community? Is that supposed to be tongue in cheek or what?

mewi, on Sep 4 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

PS: I'm also curious on what rights are being violated for the asexual group in particular that the "LGBT" group isn't already fighting for? and in my opinion "LGBT" pretty much covers asexuality in terms of the LGB and T part... Not so much the S I think it should cover the S in some manner but ah well... I've heard this term a few times "The asexual rights movement". I also read something by some user here referencing matters that really involve overall human rights and are not particular to the asexual group. I can understand the issue of rights when it comes to medical diagnosis. But I think it would be extremely hard to diagnose the difference between a sexual dysfunction and a simple lack of sexual desire, would you not agree? and is asexuality really defined as a disorder in any medical journals in the US? o.o

Evidently, the LGBT community isn't actively fighting to get asexuality off the mental disorder list or you wouldn't be asking if it's really even defined as a disorder.
And to further my last sentence as a matter of fact, yes, asexuality is in the DSM. Not just a medical journal, the medical journal; the one used to diagnose and treat mental disorders, listed as Hypoactive sexual desire disorder:

Quote

Hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) is defined as the persistent or recurrent extreme aversion to, absence of, and avoidance of all, or almost all, genital sexual contact with a sexual partner. Synonyms for HSDD include sexual aversion, inhibited sexual desire, sexual apathy , and sexual anorexia.

Read more: http://www.minddisor...l#ixzz0QAYBUvUN

And considering 'lack of sexual attraction' is the primary criteria for being asexual, and as you yourself have just stated LGBT groups don't deal with sex expressly but instead romantic inclinations, I would think by that omission it would appear that the LGBT community isn't really covering asexuality that well at all. It isn't even really suited too anyway, since as you point out, it's dealing with a different (read: emotional) aspect of attraction altogether.

*Applause*



Thank you so much for that post. It's astonishing how people don't seem to understand that.

[mewi]

Prodefemme, hi, I am sorry if somehow I offended you. But trust to remember that we are all part of the same group in the end the human race. Sure LGBT community may not be directly fighting to remove/modify some text in a book for the asexual group, but look at what we are fighting against right now and fighting for? Most major religious christian organizations... the republican party ( for the most part ) , For our very right to marriage, rights in employment, rights in the military, rights to adopt. I know it may sound mean, but that text in a book isn't preventing you from being asexual, sure the wording in DSM can seem offensive, sure it needs to be changed. But when you put it up against what we are currently facing, it isn't a priority, but nothings stopping your community from facing that particular aspect on your own or trying to form a rally of multiple people.

Speaking for the USA alone that is, I am sure there is a lot more things needed to get it world wide, especially removing execution and imprisonment from the laws for being LGBT of certain countries... I am also sure there is something in other countries that would violate your right to asexuality.