ColBrandon Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think that few people in this forum really understand what sex means to sexuals. It is not simply an act of physical pleasure and immediate gratification. For them it is a profound moment of connection, an act that cements the bonds of love. Listen to Leonard Cohen describing sexual intercourse: "remember when I moved in you the holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah" Unlike the younger members of this forum, I've had a lot of intercourse, with a woman I loved profoundly, and it NEVER felt like that. But it does to sexuals. Consequently, I worry when I read postings by young asexuals full of joy because they have found a sexual who understands and accepts them. S/he does, for now. Over time you may discover that there is a fundamental incompatibility in the way that you two build and preserve love. I'm guessing that this won't be a well-liked post. Bring on the firing squad! Link to post Share on other sites
KayleeSaeihr Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I wouldn't assume that we don't understand. I certainly understand what sex, and the act of 'making love' can mean for people. But it's not for me. I also wouldn't assume that your post won't be well liked, I actually think this is a good topic to discuss :) Link to post Share on other sites
arisa Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well played, sir. Anywho, I (would think) that I have an idea of the meaning of sex to sexuals, and our so-called "incompatibility". But there are some things that make me wonder. We certainly can't say that every sex act is some catharsis of intimacy, right? I can imagine that even with someone you love dearly, it isn't always like that. There are so many other ways that people can bond: intellectually, emotionally, through competition... it just doesn't seem fair to me to automatically doom a relationship because one of these aren't met or completely fulfilled. At least that's what I'd like to believe? Link to post Share on other sites
carried in bags Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 but if you can get enough pleasure from kissing and cuddling someone you love? im a big leonard cohen fan - both his music and poetry. im a writer too, im more of an asexual cohen i guess Link to post Share on other sites
KayleeSaeihr Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Sex is many things to many people. It can be joyous, dirty, abusive, liberating, constrictive, uplifting, fun, dangerous. Some say that sex without love is empty, and they go on to say that love without sex is meaningless. To some asexuals it's pointless, to other disgusting. But for many asexuals deep love is possible without the need nor desire for sex. Link to post Share on other sites
happylife Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Think it's kind of sad but true.. Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Matilda Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 "remember when I moved in you the holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah" Let me just say it's hard to move your audience with allusions to Christianity when you're performing for atheists. So it is when you lyrically describe sex to an asexual. The words may be pretty, but I have to imagine something other than sex to "get" them. I agree, though. Sex isn't just a trashy thing people do to vent their lust. It's a language. And some people don't know or care to know that language. (I'm not an atheist, I'm more of an eclectic Catholic...but I'm just saying...) Link to post Share on other sites
TheMuffinMan Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Oh, pshaw. I'm an atheist and I appreciate Mr. Cohen as much as anyone. I do, however, think I know what sex means to sexuals. I don't think all sex in general is pointless, I just personally find it so. I'd hardly disparage my various sexual friends by considering all sex as pointless, and them as just brainwashed to put high priority on it. There's obviously a connection that people are feeling with that intimacy that I just haven't, or can't, or don't want to experience. Honestly, when people speak of sex as 'divine' (not necessarily holy, I'm merely using the word to refer to an emotion that seems to come with a combination of emotional attachment and intimacy) I nod and certainly don't mock them, because OBVIOUSLY there's something there, but in my head I'm pretty much laughing at the idea. Just because it's so utterly foreign to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Matilda Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 You're an atheist? I thought you worshiped the Muffin Batter from whence we all come... ;) Link to post Share on other sites
silentdreamer Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 While it's true that some asexuals don't understand the point of sex beyond lustful or selfish reasons, it's also true that many sexuals are the same way. There are sexuals who believe sex has a deeper meaning and there are those who don't. This is why we have people who enjoy one night stands and anonymous sex, while we have others who are looking for dedicated partners and serious relationships. Sex is yet another very subjective thing in life. I understand how sex can have a deeper meaning for a lot of people. I'm not anti-sex. It's just something that's not for me. I respect people right to have sex just as I respect people's right to have religion. Just cause I'm agnostic doesn't mean I dont understand how very important religion is for people's souls. Just cause I'm asexual doesn't mean I dont understand how important sex can be for relationships. But, I also believe that a relationships isn't doomed just because one person is sexual and the other is asexual. There's more to love and affection than just sex; it's not the defining point for any real relationship. I've seen relationships and marriages break up over things not related to sex. It's not always about what's going on (or not going on) in the bedroom. Link to post Share on other sites
Jillianimal Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't, understand how though. I mean, love & sex are 2 completely different things & they're on 2 different sides of the brain. Why would they overlap during intercourse? Link to post Share on other sites
-V- Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't, understand how though. I mean, love & sex are 2 completely different things & they're on 2 different sides of the brain. Why would they overlap during intercourse? It evolved to promote pair bonding so the most helpless child in the animal kingdom would have two parents for the 6 or 7 years it takes for a child to be able to get by with one or one their own if they have to. Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Matilda Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 The two sides of the brain cooperate. Just like in speaking. Very, very roughly (and I mean it, this is a rough outline): one half of the brain forms words, the other interprets them. If the two sides of the brain didn't overlap, you'll either get meaning without words or words without meaning. Same with sex and the emotion love. They're different things, but they're both human, so they can happen simultaneously. Link to post Share on other sites
Atheno Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 ^^ You just don't get it, do you? They overlap because "love" is such an awesome justification for sex! But honestly, I have no idea, but I'd imagine a lot of sexuals actually believe sex is about love... and a lot don't care. To me, a virgin, the two seem pretty unrelated... anyway, I won't be finding out. Link to post Share on other sites
Jillianimal Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't, understand how though. I mean, love & sex are 2 completely different things & they're on 2 different sides of the brain. Why would they overlap during intercourse? It evolved to promote pair bonding so the most helpless child in the animal kingdom would have two parents for the 6 or 7 years it takes for a child to be able to get by with one or one their own if they have to. THAT makes sense, but I don't think a lot of people would see it that way. Link to post Share on other sites
CreakyKeegan Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I can respect sex when I know it's out of love. Link to post Share on other sites
Astryda Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 But it does to sexuals. For some sexuals and demisexuals, but not for all of them. We have a number of older asexual AVENites who regret having sex in the past. Link to post Share on other sites
Charlieee Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I can respect sex when I know it's out of love. This, exactly. Obviously I'm not going to understand what sex means to sexuals because I am not sexual. I can try to understand it the best that I can, and I think I do a good job of it, to be honest. There's always just going to be that little part of me that's still going, "....but why?" because I am asexual and don't have the same needs as sexuals. Link to post Share on other sites
ColBrandon Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Thanks for the great discussion! I think I agree with most of what was posted. Just to clarify...I'm an atheist, but I think that Christian allegory can make for great art and useful metaphor. Link to post Share on other sites
Haunter Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 "remember when I moved in youthe holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah" Why do I have the feeling that the holy dove was moving in the opposite direction, as to get away from the image of the two humans copulating? Also, we're 1% of the population. We live in their oversexed world, most of them have little to no understanding of our lack of sexual attraction... AND WE'RE THE ONES WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEM? Excuse me if I don't agree with that... <_< Link to post Share on other sites
oneofthesun Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Consequently, I worry when I read postings by young asexuals full of joy because they have found a sexual who understands and accepts them. S/he does, for now. Over time you may discover that there is a fundamental incompatibility in the way that you two build and preserve love. I agree with you actually. I don't think sexuals can change their nature any more than we can. However claiming that sex=love to all sexuals is making a generalization. Link to post Share on other sites
Lego M Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Not even every sexual person understands exactly how the act of sex and the emotion that supposedly comes with it are connected, or not connected in some situations. My best friend, a highly sexual person, was attempting to explain the concept of completely pointless sex - ie. a one night stand - to her boyfriend, and he totally couldn't grasp what she was telling him. She's slept with many men and has had a lot of pointless sex with no emotional attachment, whereas on his side, she was his first. He's never experienced sex without that emotional connection, because he's never been with anyone other than her and they're very close. It was actually a really interesting conversation to listen to from my outsider point of view. For her, "having sex" and "making love" are two completely separate things; she claims they feel totally different. Link to post Share on other sites
AVENCakes Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I think that few people in this forum really understand what sex means to sexuals. It is not simply an act of physical pleasure and immediate gratification. For them it is a profound moment of connection, an act that cements the bonds of love. Listen to Leonard Cohen describing sexual intercourse:"remember when I moved in you the holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah" .... Isweartogod if you ruined that song for me... ! >_< I never thought that was about sex. Unlike the younger members of this forum, I've had a lot of intercourse, with a woman I loved profoundly, and it NEVER felt like that. But it does to sexuals. I have. I've never had sex, but I've done "sexual" things with my partner, and I feel the closeness, the connection, the bond, all that when we do. One night stands, etc, make no sense- though. Consequently, I worry when I read postings by young asexuals full of joy because they have found a sexual who understands and accepts them. S/he does, for now. Over time you may discover that there is a fundamental incompatibility in the way that you two build and preserve love. I've seen that happen a few times. "I told them I was asexual, they claimed to except, and then later it came out that they thought they could change me, or that I wasn't serious, or it'd be different with them". :/ At least when you tell them- you don't feel bad for "lying" to htem. Link to post Share on other sites
Fi_Loubet Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 "remember when I moved in youthe holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah" ARGH! I had no idea he was being literal in the first line... I thought he meant emotionally or spiritually. Still, seeing Leonard Cohen sing this live was pretty amazing. Link to post Share on other sites
ThePieMaker Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I understand that. Sex just doesn't have that meaning for me. And it's why I don't much expect to have a lasting relationship with a normal sexual. But, it also doesn't mean that for every sexual either. I've talked to plenty who do not feel that way about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Charlieee Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Rather unrelated, but I just wanted to say that the title of this thread makes me happy. XD Seeing it as the thread last posted in on the main page, the title seems so excited and positive out of context. So, uh, thanks? XD :) Link to post Share on other sites
ThePieMaker Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Rather unrelated, but I just wanted to say that the title of this thread makes me happy. XD Seeing it as the thread last posted in on the main page, the title seems so excited and positive out of context. So, uh, thanks? XD :) So it was good for you? :lol: :lol: :lol: Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 "remember when I moved in youthe holy dove was moving too and every breath we drew was hallelujah" ARGH! I had no idea he was being literal in the first line... I thought he meant emotionally or spiritually. Still, seeing Leonard Cohen sing this live was pretty amazing. ARGH indeed. It's always been amazing to me how sexual singers, etc. get so personally graphic about their sexual life. I usually like Leonard Cohen but the sex and the holy dove in one song is just too much. But I guess if you like or don't mind sex, it's fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Fi_Loubet Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Actually, now that you mention it, his book of Poetry Book of Longing is often concerned with sex; but it's still one of my favourite collections of poetry. (I also love Ginsberg, and he had a habit of writing about sex too!) Link to post Share on other sites
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