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Insecurities in the Way


sister spooky

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sister spooky

Hi everyone!

I'm posting here because though I don't think I'm asexual and my girlfriend certainly isn't, I need some ideas on how to help me overcome my sexual insecurities, and this is the very first forum I've found online that has such smart, thoughtful and genuinely warm, helpful posters.

My girlfriend and I (I'm also a woman) have been in a committed relationship for 2 years, and she has been exceedingly patient with me while I have been trying to get out of my head and have a normal, fun and loving sexual relationship with her. I was a virgin when we started seeing each other. I had no idea how to go about doing anything sexual and had never even kissed before. This was not true for her. She has been my first everything, and so far I have enjoyed the ride. Over the time we've been together, we've developed an emotional connection that I believe can and will never be matched. We know each other so well, it's unbelievable. I love her wholly and completely, and she loves me the same way. We are excellent at communicating our needs and wants with each other, and neither one of us would want to do anything to hurt the other. Unfortunately, we are in a situation where she has a normal healthy sex drive, whereas mine is low. Also, even though I want to please her sexually, my mind and body freeze up with thoughts of being inadequate, and it goes nowhere. She is understandably frustrated and feels undesired and rejected. She says that when we do have sex. she feels like it's all mechanical to me and that I'm just trying to get through it.

I've recently started seeing a therapist, but feel like it isn't helping...and have just contacted a sex therapist in our area. I feel overwhelmingly guilty that I've let my problem go on this long without really addressing it, but for a long time was so scared and didn't know how to talk this one thing.

For what it's worth, I thoroughly enjoy all the other aspects of our relationship...the kissing, the hugging, the touching, the confiding, spending time together, etc. Like she says, everything else is absolutely perfect.

My girlfriend is brilliant and sexy and sweet and funny and charming and undeniably perfect. She's always trying to help me, so suggested this forum. We thought that it was possible that I'm asexual, but I do feel sexual attraction towards her, I just think my sex drive isn't as strong as hers and lack of experience has made me feel insecure...and since I'm a notorious perfectionist, I want everything to be perfect when do have sex. I also enjoy sex a lot on those infrequent times when I've been able to get out of my head, and I also enjoy masturbation. Does this mean I can't be asexual?

She says she still loves me and that I'm not broken in any way, and that she knows I'm not doing anything to cause her pain intentionally. At the same time, she can't stay in a mostly sexless relationship any longer, for her own emotional and physical health, and has recently, with my blessing, started seeking sexual gratification elsewhere. However, that obviously isn't the best solution, as we are both very monogamous people, and I want to be the one to satisfy her sexually.

I'm so confused...if anyone has some insight or experience with a problem like this or advice on what to try to get my head to take a chill pill, any and all comments will be much appreciated. Thank you!

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well first just relax, I think the problem that you already figure out is that you stress out cause you dont want to disappointed her in any way, I dont think that you are asexual, I think that she has to take it slow but really slow, let her take you away let her take the wheel, and to be very patient , like for example if I were a race car driver and you were in drivers ed, and I was teaching you my skills for racing, you have to take baby steps, you are trying to run when you can't walk, remember nobody was born with knowledge just some have more skill than others. 8)

chill have :cake:

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Hi sister spooky, and welcome :cake:

Sounds like a tricky situation, but also one with a really simple answer. Best of all, you seem to know what it is: you need to relax. Easier said than done I know (I'm married to an asexual perfectionist, and while we don't have your problem, we have a similar one. Being a perfectionist, and also asexual, my wife's attitude is sort of "if I can't do this perfectly, then why bother" :rolleyes:)

So...

Advice for you: you may be measuring your performance by the wrong yardstick. Don't measure yourself by how skilful you are. Don't measure yourself by how not-awkward you are. And don't measure yourself against some pre-conceived ideal. If you must measure yourself, measure yourself by how relaxed you are. Because that's what's going to work. See how well you can go into sex thinking "If I can just let go and not worry about how it's all going, my girlfriend will think it's going great." Because if you relax, she will. Right now, relaxed is way more important than great moves, or being ultra-smooth-and-not-at-all-clumsy.

And advice for your girlfriend: it wouldn't be a bad idea for her to spend some time de-pressurising the situation, even to an exaggerated degree. She should reassure you that if you're fooling around, then she's really not going to judge how it pans out. If you just cuddle, that's ok, and she loves you. If you end up having sex, that's ok, and she loves you. If you get all self-conscious, totally lose the mood, and have an "Oh damn, I totally didn't relax" freakout, that's ok and she loves you. In fact, if that happens, I suggest you both make a point of laughing at the ridiculousness of it all - maybe pre-agree that if you freak out, then that means she has to feed you ice-cream until you calm down again, or some circuit-breaker like that.

I may be way off - after all I don't know either of you - but hopefully there might be something of use in there.

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I don't know how much my advice is worth to you given that I don't do either sex or romance but if it might help you I suppose it's worth it.

What you must remember is that you are not insecure with the romantic side of your relationship, and you have no reason to feel insecure about the sexual side either. Think about it this way, have you ever messed up a kiss? Did that put you off kissing for good? Even if your sexual encounters aren't perfect, that doesn't matter and as long as you're relaxed and into it, if that's the right term, your girlfriend won't judge you for it.

Now, I would echo the poster above in saying that your girlfriend has a part to play here too. She shouldn't pressure you as that will only make your insecurities worse.

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I agree with Olivier, for the most part.

On the other hand, I hate to be that guy who's always a downer, but...

1) there's the possibility that you will never relax. Ideally, you will be able to smoosh your anxiety completely and go on to have wild sex where you lose all abandon... but you may not, either. Whether its anxiety, or stems from perfectionism, or pressure from your girlfriend, or a subconscious uncomfortability with sex, or with sex with your girlfriend, its possible that you will never become the wild, passionate, inhibition-less sex partner that your girlfriend expects. Which leads me to:

2) People are all kinds of different in bed, and not everyone is a match. Let me ask you a question: is your girlfriend really passionate? Does she get very intense during sex sometimes? Does that intensity freak you out? Are you much calmer, quieter.. and maybe giggly during sex? There is a reason I'm asking, trust me. :)

3) Most people aren't perfect sex matches. What to do about the differences? First thing first... you and your girlfriend both need to stop thinking that her approach to sex is right and your approach is wrong. Its just different. People like your girlfriend, and like me, have it easy, because our libido and sexuality tend to align more closely with typical hollywood expressions of sexuality, so it makes it seem like our sexual approach is "normal" or "right" or "better". But that's absolutely ridiculous. The way you enjoy sex, the way that you approach it that makes you feel comfortable is no better or worse than hers. You both need to stop trying to turn your sexuality into her sexuality. Coming to understand that you both love each other equally, and you both love sex, but that you are different in bed... that understanding should get you a long way toward feeling more comfortable and satisfied with your sex life.

My partner and I went through something very similar. And I'm not going to lie, it is a bummer than some things that I really like, I may never, or rarely, experience, because that's just not her jam. Once I accepted that she and I approach sex differently, and find enjoyment from it differently, it became easier for me to focus on me... I do what makes me happy, she does what makes her happy, and I don't pick at her about it. If I don't let it bother me that she seems "mechanical" or whatever, and just accept that mechanical is how she rolls, suddenly everything got a little easier.

Oh, also - if you don't want your partner sleeping with other people, then don't give her permission to do so. How do you feel about it? Are you comfortable/ secure with the arrangement? How does she feel about it?

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And I agree with Skullery Maid, for the most part ;)

I'm sure Skullery meant "not perfect" in 3, and I really agree with her last point. One thing that sort of screamed at me reading your first post was that your girlfriend sleeping with other people just seemed pressuring: "Get it together NOW, or I'll sleep with others because I'm going nuts with frustration." I mean, I've been in your girlfriend's shoes, and I really, really get where she's coming from with that level of frustration. I'm just not sure that sleeping with others is on a path to a solution, and may actually working you away from one a little. Your mileage may vary.

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And I agree with Skullery Maid, for the most part ;)

I'm sure Skullery meant "not perfect" in 3, and I really agree with her last point. One thing that sort of screamed at me reading your first post was that your girlfriend sleeping with other people just seemed pressuring: "Get it together NOW, or I'll sleep with others because I'm going nuts with frustration." I mean, I've been in our girlfriend's shoes, and I really, really get where she's coming from with that level of frustration. I'm just not sure that sleeping with others is on a path to a solution, and may actually working you away from one a little. Your mileage may vary.

oops, edited that! thanks. :blush:

Yeah, I too feel like the "i'm going sleep with other people if you don't have enough sex with me!" thing is really shitty and pressure-y. I don't like it one bit.

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sister spooky

Wow...thank you to everyone who posted! =)

Castor - I agree and would love to take it slow. My problem is that she says she can't be my guinea pig anymore...that it hurts too much to let me learn to have passion for her. However, I'm not going to be able to get out of my head until I feel more confident about my ability to please her and the sex probably won't seem passionate until I feel confident and get out of my head. I feel like I've pushed her past her breaking point and now she won't want to have sex until I'm perfect, but sex for me is such an intimate expression of love for one person that I can't go "practice" on anyone else first.

Olivier - Thanks for the warm welcome! =) I think your idea sounds perfect, and pretty much exactly how I'd like to proceed (especially with the ice cream!). We're seeing two different therapists this week and I'm hoping they can talk her into that, because where we stand now is that she's a little too traumatized (and I'm not making light of her situation by using this word, as what she has been going through for 2 years has been devastatingly painful for her) to let me continue to "practice" with her.

ian_smithers - You make really good points that I need to consider. I don't know why I'm so much more worried about "messing up" sex than I would be kissing. It doesn't really make sense. And she really isn't pressuring me anymore...mostly because she's getting it elsewhere.

SkulleryMaid -

1) This is the possibility that scares the life out of me.

2) Lol! Well, I wouldn't call her intense, but yes, she's passionate and kind of serious, but totally able to laugh if one of us kicks someone in the face accidentally or something..she'll be the first one to say that sex isn't serious. As for me? If I'm not frozen with fear of disappointing her, I'm usually grinning like an idiot and a little silly.

3) It's not that we think hers is right and mine is wrong...it's more that I want to get into my head and figure out why I freeze up, because I don't want to freeze up. Even if it's not with her someday, I want my sex life to be happy and healthy and fun...and I don't necessarily care if my approach is different than my partner's....I just want to feel safe and comfortable enough for the differences to be a fun challenge instead of a scary mountain.

The story of you and your partner makes me feel like there is hope for me and my girlfriend....I think I'm going to share it with her, if you don't mind. I'd love if both of us could understand each other's approaches to sex a little bit better.

Also, the her sleeping with other people part is kind of complicated. On one hand, I hate everything about it and I'm jealous. On the other hand, her having that outlet has made it so much easier for us to talk about how this issue is affecting our relationship. We've been completely honest with each other and even though there have been a LOT of tears, we actually both feel a lot closer to each other than we have in a long time. Plus, she's so much more relaxed and grounded and happy. And she's made it absolutely clear that I come first...and knowing her like I do...I believe her. So, it's a mixed bag for me. It's weird.

Olivier - Yeah, we've talked about that. It actually makes it easier for us to talk about things if she has this outlet. Don't get me wrong, it's not ideal and I don't love the situation, but after 2 years, I think she's well within her rights to tell me that this is what she needs on her end...then I can react how I see fit. It's rough. We love each other more than anything in the world...but we've talked about splitting up and seeing other people and finding each other again in the future. Right now I just don't know.

SkulleryMaid - It's definitely not ideal, but I think I'd feel even worse if she gives up this outlet for me and then goes right back to being as miserable as she was while I try to figure myself out. does that make sense?

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Thanks for the update!!

I didn't realize until your last message how unhappy/ upset your girlfriend is. I actually do understand her position. My girlfriend was in the same place you are for a long time... she just kept trying new things, and it felt like every week there was a new "if you would just do this" idea that she thought was surely going to take care of all the problems.

It never did. I eventually got so frustrated I snapped. It was about 1 1/2 years of "maybe if you start slowly" and then "maybe if you initiate more" and then "maybe if you initiate less" and so on and so on. I couldn't take it anymore. I would rather have infrequent and less-than-ideal sex that I don't have to constantly think about and worry about than have infrequent and less-than-ideal sex, but also be scrutinizing it and holding out hope it will change.

It seems the difference between you and my girlfriend is that when confronted, my girlfriend agreed that things were never going to change, and that she just is how she is. That took a lot of pressure off of both of us. I would like to say that once the pressure was off, sex became more frequent and more fun... but that's not what happened. However, I'm still happier now than I was back when I was in the guinnea pig situation.

I'm glad you guys are going to counselors, and I'm also glad that the open relationship is working for you. I think open relationships can be successful, but the success is contingent on the respect both people are giving each other, following any rules that have been laid out, and of course, both people's genuine acceptance of the arrangement. It sounds like you have that, so good!

I hope to hear another update after counseling. :)

ps... yes, feel free to share any of my stories with your girlfriend.

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sister spooky

Hey again!

She is really unhappy...and I think hurt and confused more than anything else. My problem is that I didn't really even try new things...I was just so confused and scared that I bottled it all up and shut down and pulled away from her and got mean when she suggested I maybe try to figure things out. It's only just in the past few weeks that I decided to stop being scared and give it a shot. That's when I started counseling by myself. Now she's going to come with me.

The situation with you and your girlfriend sounds really painful for both of you. If you don't mind me asking, what keeps you together...other than loving each other, that is? =) What is it that keeps you from looking for a partner that has sexual needs more like your own? Why doesn't your girlfriend? I think it's fantastic that you two manage to make it work, and you definitely give me hope, but I'm just curious.

Navigating the open relationship has been rocky for both of us, but so far it seems like the best option. It helps that we love each other as much as we do...and that I'm actually grateful that someone else can give her what I can't right now..something she really needs.

And yes, there will definitely be updates after counseling.

Thank you so much for your input..it helps me feel better!!! =)

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Hey again!

She is really unhappy...and I think hurt and confused more than anything else. My problem is that I didn't really even try new things...I was just so confused and scared that I bottled it all up and shut down and pulled away from her and got mean when she suggested I maybe try to figure things out. It's only just in the past few weeks that I decided to stop being scared and give it a shot. That's when I started counseling by myself. Now she's going to come with me.

The situation with you and your girlfriend sounds really painful for both of you. If you don't mind me asking, what keeps you together...other than loving each other, that is? =) What is it that keeps you from looking for a partner that has sexual needs more like your own? Why doesn't your girlfriend? I think it's fantastic that you two manage to make it work, and you definitely give me hope, but I'm just curious.

Navigating the open relationship has been rocky for both of us, but so far it seems like the best option. It helps that we love each other as much as we do...and that I'm actually grateful that someone else can give her what I can't right now..something she really needs.

And yes, there will definitely be updates after counseling.

Thank you so much for your input..it helps me feel better!!! =)

Why do we stay together? I'm older than her by more than a few years, so from my perspective, I'm aware that there are always sex issues in relationships. Sometimes its easy to work out, sometimes its not, but I've never been in a relationship that's been free of some sort of sex incompatibility, mismatched libidos, or something. So for me, I'd rather stay with my girlfriend who I love and who I have excellent communication with, instead of finding someone else, running into issues, and NOT being able to communicate about it so well.

From her perspective, I think that she loves me, and now that the pressure has decreased, I think she's not feeling the negativity that, at one time, may have pushed her away.

Now that we've sorted out and accepted each other's sexualities, things are peaceful. Its not necessarily ideal for either of us, but I don't believe in ideal... so loving and peaceful works as a trade-off for me.

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Thank you to everyone who has been participating in this thread. The topic is one I have been thinking about lately.

I have a question that I suspect may be offensive, but I truly want to understand, so my apologies in advance! I've heard several people say, on this thread and elsewhere, that it is excruciatingly painful to be the "guinea pig" in a sexual relationship with someone who has never been in a sexual relationship before. I assume it's not the teaching that is so painful, or is it? (I personally enjoy teaching (academics), so I'm biased.) What is it that is so painful?

From an outside perspective, the situation reminds me of the Catch-22 of job experience: Many employers require that potential hires have a certain amount of experience before they will consider hiring them. To get this experience, however, someone out there has to be willing to hire the employee without any experience. In my [employment] case, I started working at a very young age, when my employer wouldn't have expected me to have any experience. Thankfully (for health/maturity/etc. reasons), this doesn't quite correlate to gaining sexual experience. However, I do wonder about those of us who are "older" and who are learning, or trying to learn, to engage in sexual activity with a partner, at an age at which we are expected to have such knowledge. Is it an age-based thing or is it wrapped up in the less experienced partner's attempt to be perfect or get it right, or something else altogether?

I'm partially just thinking aloud here, so I'd be happy for responses that relate to any given portion of this. Thanks!

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I think it's more that if the lower-desire partner says "I think it might work if we try X", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try Y", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try Z", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try A", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try B", and then that doesn't work out, then the higher-desire partner has been on such a rollercoaster of building up hope, and then having it dashed, that it's just too tiring to continue. It really is exhausting.

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I think it's more that if the lower-desire partner says "I think it might work if we try X", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try Y", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try Z", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try A", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try B", and then that doesn't work out, then the higher-desire partner has been on such a rollercoaster of building up hope, and then having it dashed, that it's just too tiring to continue. It really is exhausting.

Okay, I can see that. Thank you for giving your perspective, Olivier.

~Carsonspire

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Hi. I'm new here and was about to write an introductory post but then I saw this thread and wanted to chime in first. Sister spooky, I think I can very well relate to your issue because I think I'm more or less similar.

I can fall in love, get attached to someone, and even even get very aroused but something happens every time I try to go all the way. At first I thought it was just some sort of dysfunction but then I realized that my drive has been nonexistent to low all my life. I never really understood what the whole fuss about sex was about, and I never masturbate. When I try to it feels more like a chore, so needless to say I've never experienced a waking orgasm. I'm also not sure if I'm really asexual as I can get turned on, but to specific things, and apparently intercourse isn't one of them. :wacko: It could be jut insecurity as I as well don't really see myself as desirable and of course have really no experience, so it's really hard for me to relax and let go. I keep thinking what I'm supposed to do instead of going by the gut, almost as if the instinct wasn't there. It's not that I don't want sex, I just don't know how to go about it.

I've started seeing a therapist about it about two months ago, so far we've made little progress, so I'm currently looking for a sex therapist in my area. I really feel mad at myself for not figuring this out sooner, and the thought that I might have no sex drive scares me. It's not that I find anything wrong with it, it's just that I feel a great need to connect to someone emotionally, and even sexually... up to a point. I just lost a relationship over this about a week ago with a girl who I thought was the one and it hurts like hell. I can't really say that I blame her though.

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sister spooky

SkulleryMaid - It feels so good to hear you say that! I hope that that's how things will end up for my girlfriend and I. Right now she's struggling with the fact that she doesn't feel any passion from me. We're trying to disconnect from each other and take a step back right now so things aren't so emotional between us....I just don't want to fight with her about this anymore. I want us to get to the point where she gets what she needs and I get what I need and we're not resenting each other for anything.

And because you asked...lol...the first therapist went well...we mostly just both get out how we've been feeling, and the therapist urged us to make some decisions soon about how we're going to handle this, at least in terms of my girlfriend dating this other woman, because it's turning into more than just sex...and if we want to live apart while we work on this, etc. She and I have made a date to talk everything over after we process the visit. =) *crosses fingers*

Carsonspire - I totally agree with everything that Olivier said, but also want to add that for my girlfriend at least, she feels at this point like sex for me isn't passionate and I don't make her feel desired. She feels that me learning is like mechanically just practicing something until I get it right. It's like I'm not appreciating her as a woman, I'm just trying to perfect the act.

hrkljush - I'm really sorry that you're going through this too. It hurts like hell...and I'm really sorry you lost your relationship. *hugs* I feel exactly like you do, although I think my drive is stronger than yours, and I enjoy masturbation.

I don't know about you, but I always struggle with feeling broken, like something is wrong inside of me, or that I didn't get my copy of the guidebook or instruction manual that everyone else got. Or that maybe I just should have spent a lot less time on schoolwork and a lot more time making out and grabbing other girls' boobs in high school so that I would be caught up with the knowledge that everyone else seems to have...that knowledge that makes people completely comfortable with jumping into bed on the third date.

And I totally get how strong that need is to connect with a special person...and that unimaginable fear that you can have that they'll walk away when they find out that you're not exactly like them and that you can't figure out how to be different than you are....it can be paralyzing.

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I think it's more that if the lower-desire partner says "I think it might work if we try X", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try Y", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try Z", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try A", and then that doesn't work out, then says "I think it might work if we try B", and then that doesn't work out, then the higher-desire partner has been on such a rollercoaster of building up hope, and then having it dashed, that it's just too tiring to continue. It really is exhausting.

EXACTLY.

Plus, there's a lot of blame, both implicit and explicit. If the low-libido partner keeps saying "maybe if A", "maybe if B", etc, there's an implicit assumption that something should work, but isn't working, because the higher-libido partner just isn't doing it right. If you're told by your partner that they can and will enjoy sex, but only under conditions that you can't seem to create for them, its disheartening and frustrating.

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Thank you to everyone who has been participating in this thread. The topic is one I have been thinking about lately.

I have a question that I suspect may be offensive, but I truly want to understand, so my apologies in advance! I've heard several people say, on this thread and elsewhere, that it is excruciatingly painful to be the "guinea pig" in a sexual relationship with someone who has never been in a sexual relationship before. I assume it's not the teaching that is so painful, or is it? (I personally enjoy teaching (academics), so I'm biased.) What is it that is so painful?

From an outside perspective, the situation reminds me of the Catch-22 of job experience: Many employers require that potential hires have a certain amount of experience before they will consider hiring them. To get this experience, however, someone out there has to be willing to hire the employee without any experience. In my [employment] case, I started working at a very young age, when my employer wouldn't have expected me to have any experience. Thankfully (for health/maturity/etc. reasons), this doesn't quite correlate to gaining sexual experience. However, I do wonder about those of us who are "older" and who are learning, or trying to learn, to engage in sexual activity with a partner, at an age at which we are expected to have such knowledge. Is it an age-based thing or is it wrapped up in the less experienced partner's attempt to be perfect or get it right, or something else altogether?

I'm partially just thinking aloud here, so I'd be happy for responses that relate to any given portion of this. Thanks!

I've wondered a little bit about this myself, as I'm with someone 10 years my senior who's had previous relationships, though he's my first in every way. We haven't talked too much about possible frustrations on his part with my inexperience and budding sexual identity, but the impression I get is that it isn't much of an issue with him and he's enjoying figuring stuff out with me. Maybe it helps that I've given him a near-fully consented free pass when it comes to sex in that he has the final say about when, where, and how often; mostly because I'm incapable of initiating for various reasons, so I'm trying to make him feel good and empowered about needing to do it all the time instead of disappointed or inadequate. Insecurities on either end suck, that's for sure.

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  • 2 weeks later...
sister spooky

As an update...

Sometimes I think that therapy is just making everything worse.

I feel abandoned and like she doesn't love me enough to stick it out while I figure out my issues with sexual expression. She feels like she's done everything she possibly can, and while she loves me, that being in a monogamous romantic relationship with me is not something she wants right now. Too much has happened and I've made her feel rejected for too long.

So we broke up and now we're friends, but we still live in the same apartment and share a bed most of the week because she's too poor to move out and her new sex partner doesn't want her over in her tiny, tiny apartment all the time because the apartment is super tiny and she doesn't want her personal space intruded on.

And she's developing feelings for her sex partner...and they text and call each other all the time. It's like a relationship, really. And this woman has told her she loves her.

And while at the gym a few nights ago I got a phone call that they were out to dinner and the new sex partner didn't feel well so they were at my and my (ex-)girlfriend's apartment hanging out. I was ok with this until they started texting each other and whispering stuff in each other's ears and cuddled up and finally kissed. I excused myself and left the room....then they were SO upset and were SO sorry.

On top of this, we've kissed a few times...my (ex-)girlfriend and I...and I just lost my job.

The crazy thing is that I still wholeheartedly believe that we don't want to hurt each other and we're really meant to be together.

I just want us to be together and happy and normal and healthy.

We get each other so well...I feel like this is such a cosmic connection. I normally don't believe in that kind of stuff...I'm a scientist, but I feel as though she's been with me forever. Has anyone ever seen that X-Files episode "The Field Where I Died"? The one where the souls keep coming back together time and time again, always differently, but always together? That's how I feel about she and I.

This hurt is so deep on both sides, I want to believe that love is enough to pull us through, but what if it isn't?

Why can't I just get out of my head and relax and have some good old-fashioned normal lesbian sex???!!!

Thanks for letting me rant.

Opinions much appreciated.

Help.

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I have seen that episode many times.

Is she your first love? Remember, our first loves always stay with us in our hearts, but very rarely in our lives. I know it sucks to hear, but this may be the end of the road for you guys. You will meet other people, and you will fall in love again several times... and every time you fall in love anew, you'll feel like that love is the best love of all. Humans are remarkably resilient... our emotions don't have much memory, so when we experience something awful, it seems worse than all the prior awful things, and when we experience something wonderful, it seems much more wonderful than all prior wonderful things. Its good, because it helps us move on.

My advice is to stop living together immediately. Whatever needs to be done needs to be done. Kick her ass out if you have to. I know you love her, but you are being mistreated right now. If there's no one else around to stand up for you, you're going to have to stand up for yourself.

I can't imagine how hard that would be. When my ex left me for some dude she was banging, she didn't want to stick around, so it was easier. I was heartbroken and felt like I'd never move on. I laid on the couch for 3 weeks straight and did nothing but sob hysterically. 5 months later and I was able to have conversations, go out and have fun sometimes... and by a year, bam, I was starting to fall in love all over again.

I stayed with my aunt for awhile about a month after the separation, and I told her i'd never date again. And she said "Why? You're going to miss out on so much love just to avoid a handful of months of pain?", and at the time, I thought "hell yeah I will! This pain is unbearable!". But it got better. It ALWAYS gets better.

So that's all I can say. Get her ass out of your apartment ASAP. What's going on is disrespectful, disruptive, and just generally really fucked up. Your girlfriend fell for someone else and is now in a relationship with her. It sucks. Its horrible. You're going to hurt for awhile. But its not going to change, you're not going to win her back, and really, why would you want to??!! There are better people out there for you. I know you don't think so now, but if you can have even a little faith, please do. Think of the most loving, supportive, warm relationship you can (fictional is fine), and focus on it... you can have that. You can feel all those things. You can be loved and supported in a way you haven't experienced yet.

And you know, if it helps you to think of it this way... we all go thru heartbreak, so at least now you've had the experience, and that's valuable in and of itself.

I'm here whenever you need, and my heart goes out to you. I know how painful this is, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Take care of yourself right now.

<3

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sister spooky

Hey SkulleryMaid,

Thank you so much for replying so quickly. I'm taking to heart everything you said and will definitely give it some thought. And to answer your question...yes, she's my first love. Is it that obvious? lol =) I might private message you to talk, if that's ok. =)

I feel so lost right now. I went and spent the weekend with my parents...I told my mom the whole story, because I can usually talk to her about anything...and she seems to think that there might be hope for us in the future if we both really want to work on it. And for what it's worth, both my parents really like my (ex) girlfriend a lot.

But I go back and forth between really wanting it to work out and really just wanting to be done and have it over with. Part of me feels extremely guilty about screwing up this fantastic relationship that I had by not getting any help for my own issues sooner. That's the part that really wants to continue therapy by myself and figure out who I am and is holding out hope for the possibility of us getting back together in the future. This is the part that knows without a doubt that I can't cut her out of my life...that I need to keep her as at least a friend.

The other part of me feels hurt and angry and abandoned. That's the part that wants nothing to do with her ever again, the part that says hey, we were discussing MARRIAGE..and you don't suddenly up and leave someone you were discussing marriage with unless you're a lousy human being. And then my heart says that there are so many other people who put up with so much more crap from the people they love than just two years of hardly any sex and that I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with her anyway if that's all it takes to scare her away because I KNOW that I wouldn't ever break up with her and leave...and then REPLACE her five seconds later like she has with me.

And then I remind myself that this is my fault to begin with. And that I can't hold her to my expectations and that everyone has a breaking point for whatever the issue is.

And that it's my fault.

But then my heart wants to know what happened to forever.

I don't want to fall in love with anyone else..I don't think I can take it.

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sister spooky, that sounds tough, but SkulleryMaid is right - people are resilient beasts, and even though it doesn't seem like it now, you'll get through this in time. To be honest, you sound like I did after the breakup of my first "this could be forever" relationship.

I blamed myself (with some cause). Then I blamed her (with even more cause ;)). And back and forth on that like a yo-yo. I held out hope of a reconciliation, which she never wanted. Then I was determined that we'd stay friends, and we did, for a while. But I didn't want to love again, that was for sure. Six months later, that reluctance screwed up a potential relationship to the point that it never started. It took eighteen months in the end for me to find someone worth putting all that aside for (which didn't work out either - definitely my fault that time* - but hey).

You'll make it I'm sure, and you'll know yourself better at the end of it, no matter how things work out.

(* Pro-tip: if when you finally get back into the dating game you're feeling fantastic and invincible again, do NOT end up in bed with your new interest's sister :blush: :D)

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(* Pro-tip: if when you finally get back into the dating game you're feeling fantastic and invincible again, do NOT end up in bed with your new interest's sister :blush: :D)

Or their straight roommate. ;)

as a side note, I wish I could live in that stage of invincibility forever... it is such a wonderful but fleeting stage!

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sister spooky

Lol! Thanks for the tips! =)

Olivier - I hope you're right. =)

So, I went back to the therapist this morning and she's helping me confront my fears surrounding sex and why I was so afraid to confront this problem at all.

The ex gave me the heads up that she wouldn't be home until after 7 tonight, but walked in the door just after midnight. Her new sex partner (who lives like 40 minutes from here) had driven her over to come get stuff to stay overnight and food to take to work for lunch tomorrow. It's dark and raining and it's going to be like 2:00 am until they finally make it to bed and they both have to work tomorrow...ridiculous.

The ex wanted to know what I'd covered in therapy, so I emailed her and she was all proud of me until she came home and I told her the other part of what I'd realized....that I'm ok with the thought of she and I never getting back together because I deserve better than to have to wonder if she's going to decide to break up with me over something else that we should be able to work through. Or if I do get over my issues and we did manage to have a normal, healthy sex life that a few years down the road she would just magically decide that there's something wrong with me because she didn't feel any passion from me again. Or what if I got sick or impaired someday? She already said that she'd have to find a sexual outlet then.

I feel like I deserve to be able to trust that someone isn't going to up and run away when things get tough.

I deserve to be loved and appreciated and supported by someone as I'm sorting out my issues, not just when I'm done figuring everything out. If she doesn't want me when I'm trying to figure it out, then she can't have me when it's better.

She pretty much let me know how wrong I am...how there's more than just me and my feelings involved and that she went through hell while I ignored my issues for two years. And also that I'm giving her an ultimatum that we need to get back together now if she ever wants the chance at a future with me.

I told her she can do what she wants. I don't need her to get back together with me.

I know I hurt her deeply, and I'll feel guilty about that forever. But at some point, there needs to be forgiveness on both sides and the acknowledgment that I never meant her any harm. I'm still deeply in love with her, and she says she's still in love with me, but if that's true then we should be working it out together...not her waiting for me to work it out so she can come back to the easy, unbroken product.

It's like ...don't tell me I'm the best thing that ever happened to you and that you're still in love with me and that you hope we can get back together in the future if you're going to sleep with other people now.

Commitment is tough. Along with all the good stuff there's hard work and suffering and tears.

Where she and I are right now is mostly my fault. I hurt her deeply and I'm sorry for that.

But either I'm worth it or I'm not.

And if I'm not, I think it's best she and I both move on permanently.

I'm so frustrated right now!!!!!!

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She sounds young to me. I was a jerk when i was young/ inexperienced too... I think a lot of us were. It requires experience to learn who you are, and who you are in relationships, and what you want, need, and expect from your partner... and it also takes experience to learn just how good (and just how bad) people can make you feel, and just how accepting and supportive (and just how punitive and judgmental) people can be to their partners.

In other words, I think everything you've done has been right-on, and I'm impressed at your ability to follow thru. I, for one, dragged out my breakup with my first love for waaaay too long. I was in love with her, but i was also sleeping with someone else, and i was falling for that someone else, but still telling the first girl that I loved her most... and after all of my jerking her around, she's the one who finally ended it. sound familiar??? All I can is that, in hindsight, I regret deeply how I treated my first love, but I don't regret leaving the relationship, because looking back on all the wonderful people I've been able to love since, and all the experiences that I wouldn't have had... I can't regret it. If I had been stuck forever in that relationship, I don't think I'd be the same person I am today, because I wouldn't have learned firsthand the huge variety of relationship types, and people types, that there are in the world. After many years, she and I have reconciled. She's happily married with a kid, and understands that we were young and stupid, and we're good friends now.

I know you hurt now, but I am 100% certain that you will be happier in the future than you ever thought was possible. It's a cliche, but its a cliche for a reason... because its true.

EDIT: you keep saying this is your fault, but this isn't your fault. At most its both of your faults. If she wasn't happy, she had a responsibility to leave before she became so bitter and hateful that she destroyed you both. Sometimes things don't work out... and Lord knows our first loves almost NEVER work out long term... but she handled it about as poorly as a person can handle it, and for that she needs to take responsibility.

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sister spooky

Hey SkulleryMaid - I'm not sure what you consider young, but we're both in our very late 20's. She's admitted to being a jerk in previous relationships...cheating on people and whatnot, although she told me that she felt different about our relationship...that I was the best thing that ever happened to her and she and I were different...I guess I should have seen through it. This was my first though, and I guess I was too caught up in it to see clearly.

Thank you for the kind words about the way I'm handling this...I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, which makes sense being that it's my first time and all. =) The ex thinks I'm an emotional mess who only cares about how I feel. Not true though...I've been over the tears for at least a week and I care very much about her, but feel like I should be my first priority right now.

And lol! Your story does sound a little bit familiar...;) And I think it makes a lot of sense...you two clearly needed to go your opposite ways to experience more than you already had. I'm glad that both of you are happy now...a true success story!! =)

And thank you, I'm trying very hard to hold on to that happy thought....I still can't believe how badly this hurts..I just feel like my heart is in a vice grip all the time and it's hard to breathe normally, you know?

And I totally agree with this being both of our faults, and she admits that she should have left earlier...she talks about how she wanted to pack up and move her stuff while I was at work or something. If you ask her now though, she's just doing what she needs to do and I'm just thinking about myself.

Case in point...it was Monday at midnight when she finally came home and I told her I deserve better...I want to know that someone isn't going to run away when it gets rough. Then she got mad and left and went to her new gf's house and I haven't seen her since. She's coming home tonight so we can go Thanksgiving food shopping...we're going to have one last holiday together...she was going to cook for her and me and her parents, who I love dearly. Then after shopping, she says she's taking off again until Friday morning when she's coming home to cook because she's spending Thanksgiving day with her new gf and her family.

So...I've been alone and get to be alone tomorrow. Fun.

For what it's worth, her parents are on my side of this whole mess, as are mine and my very good friend. We haven't told anyone else what's going on aside from her very proud Facebook declaration that she's single now.

I just can't believe this is how it's going to end...this is the person that I have loved with all my heart for even longer than we were together...I still can't wrap my head around it.

I just want to stop hurting. =(

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Arborist Wolf

I know just what you mean...so much of what you say rings true for me. I wish I could be as strong as you are and recognize that there might be more out there and that I deserve more confidence in the stability of a relationship...but I'm still clinging too hard to those shreds of hope that things might change and everything will be perfect again. It hurts so bad when they're the person you care about most, the person who had your heart, whole, your everything, and then things happen that it's betrayed so badly. And when such a deep trust is broken, how can it really ever mend without radical changes that they're clearly not trying to make? The emotional pain is just intolerable.

Side note,

Why should you have to be the one who changes sexually to make her pain end? You were caused distress by the situation too, it's just selfish to think that you're the one with a problem and who needs 'fixed' for not being at the same level as she is.

I really admire your strength in handling the situation.

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Why should you have to be the one who changes sexually to make her pain end? You were caused distress by the situation too, it's just selfish to think that you're the one with a problem and who needs 'fixed' for not being at the same level as she is.

Agreed. Its unfortunate that there's so much language in general on this board about fault, and placing blame and/or value on people's sexuality... I see no reason why it can't be looked at as "you and I are different and maybe aren't a good match", without one person being labeled an asshole, a rapist, or incapable of love on the one side, or broken, deficient, or selfish on the other side.

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sister spooky

Bat - Thank you so much for the kind words...it's really comforting to know that there are people out there who understand. And you're right...the emotional pain is excruciating. I ended up heading home to visit my parents for Thanksgiving instead of waiting for the ex to cook. She called me while I was driving home...I don't know why I didn't tell her where I was going..just hurt and disbelief at the way I was being treated, I guess. She and I argued and I hung up on her (which I have never done before)..she texted me later that night to say she hoped I got to my parent's house safely...I texted her that I wanted her and all of her stuff out of the apartment. And then I ignored her and haven't talked to her since.

She's acting all happy and bubbly and friendly...she wants to be friends, or rather roommates, while she comes and goes as she pleases as she's building a relationship with this other woman...she acts like this isn't bothering her in the slightest and I'm still a complete mess. I can hardly eat...I've lost 15 pounds, most of it I didn't need to lose. I called my parents while I was driving home, just hysterical...they wanted to come get me from where I was on the road. I feel like I'm being ripped apart...I can't focus, I sob constantly...I can't control myself, it's incredibly embarrassing, but I thought I was loved, I thought I was special...I thought that we were going to get married and have kids and grow old together...I'm pathetically still in love....I just don't understand how she can move on immediately and be completely unbothered. I just thought that she loved me.

My parents have been trying so hard over the past few days to keep me distracted, and I love them for it. I have to go back to my own city tomorrow...I'm pretty much alone there now and have no idea what I'm going to do.

Thank you for listening, everyone...I'm sorry to keep this going, I just needed to talk to someone.

Side note, Why should you have to be the one who changes sexually to make her pain end? You were caused distress by the situation too, it's just selfish to think that you're the one with a problem and who needs 'fixed' for not being at the same level as she is.

Thank you for this. I don't know...I think mostly because I finally decided that I wanted to be more comfortable in bed...because I really do. And she's so much more experienced than I am that I just kind of figured my awkwardness was wrong somehow. Plus, it made her really upset and sad that I couldn't perform the way she was used to people performing...and all I wanted to do was make her happy.

Agreed. Its unfortunate that there's so much language in general on this board about fault, and placing blame and/or value on people's sexuality... I see no reason why it can't be looked at as "you and I are different and maybe aren't a good match", without one person being labeled an asshole, a rapist, or incapable of love on the one side, or broken, deficient, or selfish on the other side.

Yeah, I noticed that. In my case though, I really do want to be different. I don't feel like I'm asexual, I feel like I'm just nervous and inexperienced and I hid from it for way too long.

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Your story is so sad I cried after reading this thread. You've been so strong. You have loved all you can and done everything you can to make your relationship work. Nobody can blame you for that and it isn't your fault things didn't work out. I think it's always best to make a breakup as clean as possible and that you shouldn't try to be friends until you've moved on (if ever), so kicking her out is in your best interest. It sounds like your parents love you and I hope you can rely on them as much as you need for support. I'd hug you to bits if I could (assuming you would let me). I have no manly stoicness right now *sob*.

In regards to being sexually inexperienced, sex is a kind of physical communication. It seems kind of silly to think that you can become experienced in a couple years. It takes a lot longer to learn how to speak, write, dance, or do just about anything well. Some learn quicker than others. But everyone speaks differently and there's no reason sex is excluded from our uniqueness. You are you and while you can guide the direction of your development, ultimately that development requires time.

Keep being awesome, strong, and loving. You do deserve better.

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