Asexual Couchsurfers

[Yellow Fish]

Hej,

I've taken over moderator duties of the asexual group on couchsurfing.org recently. It's a small group as of now that had seen little activity since it was founded. I'd love to see it grow a little. So if you are on couchsurfing and feel like participating, please have a look or even join :). I mainly see this as a chance to raise a bit of awareness, now and then, in a quite unobtrusive manner. Definitely do read and consider the privacy related paragraph below before joining though!

What is Couchsurfing?

For those that haven't come across the concept yet: couchsurfing.org is a hospitality network. Hospitality networks allow people that travel to stay with local people, free of charge. The whole concept is voluntary; no-one has to host if they don't want to and travellers have to request being hosted in advance. If you are not comfortable letting people stay at your house you still can participate and set your couch availability to "available for a coffee" indicating that you are interested to meet people travelling on a social level.

The whole concept is based on reciprocity – both sides gain: There's a strong focus on cultural exchange, learning from each other, communal activity and making new friends. I've met some really awesome people through this – and so far haven't met anyone I absolutely didn't get along with. (But I do I admit that I pre-screen and don't accept everyone randomly.)

Hospitality networks like this aren't for everyone, however, and I think that's how it should be. If you aren't a member but feel intrigued have a look at their About, FAQ and safety related information. And/or ask questions here. I'll try to answer them as good as I can.

Why have an Asexual Group on a hospitality network?

Given the strong focus on mutual learning, cultural exchange and exploration of the "other" perspective behind couchsurfing it seems, to me, quite straightforward to connect Asexual visibility and awareness raising efforts to this. I offer people I meet through couchsurfing the chance to discuss asexuality, if they want to, and if they are interested, when meeting them. If not – that’s fine, too. I don't push it on them - but, it's there on my profile and I do invite their questions.

I see this, as mentioned above, mainly as an opportunity to raise awareness for those that are up to it. And I feel one of the core aspects of visibility and awareness that we have to achieve is to reach out beyond the asexual community, to gain understanding from sexuals and gain support amongst them. There's probably few better ways for that to happen then through personal contact. Most people that participate in networks like this are quite open-minded (but there's always, as with everything, bad apples, so do be considerate of your own safety – as with anyone you'll meet over the internet).

Of course a community like this will also allow asexuals to exchange travel tips, travel stories and additional chances to find other like minded people out there. It is an opportunity for sexual to openly display their support and that they are an asexual friendly host. It provides a space to discuss asexual specific considerations and problems while travelling. Given that there's over 2.5 million people that have made an account on couchsurfing there should be (if the 1% figure is correct) a quite significant 25.000 asexuals among them. It could be immensely useful to all those local meetings organized on AVEN and elsewhere.

The big one: Privacy

Don't join this group if you are not happy with being very very publicly out! While couch-surfing doesn't require you to display your real name and allows you to only share your profile with people registered on couch-surfing (or even hide it from the search results) the whole concept of hospitality networks means that you do not stay anonymous the moment someone meets you. I am really open about all this but that, too, is understandable not possible for everyone out there. (And I am even more out there now that all of you just had the chance to learn my real name :). )

The group as it is set up, right now, is also publicly viewable for anyone – not just couch-surfing members – in line with my visibility / awareness raising perspective on this. If there's interest in a more safe environment I'd be happy to start a second less open group that's more tightly screened; but I'd think the existing asexual communities around the web already provide much better spaces to discuss asexuality in a more private and anonymous setting. Sadly couchsurfing.org does not offer any options to join groups without having them appear on your profile – or to hide your membership from the group's membership list.

As with any public setting don't share anything that you are not happy with everyone knowing, if you do join.

Want to help out?

I see moderation as facilitation. I am not here to "run" the group, just to make it work. On that end – I need people to participate and I always welcome feedback and suggestions on how to improve things. Read through the description of the group and tell me if you think it would benefit from additions or changes. Any links I should add? Anyone out there with better graphic skills and more imagination than myself to design a logo? I tried to have both asexuality and couchsurfing in there, went with vertical rather than horizontal stripes due to aesthetics.

Any other questions about all this? Ask!

The direct link to the group is this: http://www.couchsurfing.org/group.html?gid=14485

Best,

-C.

[whitelime]

Just to give you the information that a guy is in the group while he wrote this :

you need couch ? , you are welcome ,you need sex? you are welcome too ;), you need some things more? you are welcome ;)

or Interests

Art, Design, Music, Film, Travel, sex, Laughing at life

or Music, Movies, Books

air, arctic monkeys, porno movie

This guy made me laugh, for sure :)

[Yellow Fish]

I know. There are a few funny ones that look quite out of place - but ... as long as they don't cause any problems in the group there's no problem for them to have "joined" the group from my perspective. I am not going to speculate on their motivation :)

[it may just be that they'd joined anything that had the word sex in it's name in some form!]

[The Hamburglar]

Good job on promoting it! I think it would be great to spread asexuality awareness on couchsurfing, and couchsurfing awareness on AVEN. :lol:

I highly recommend joining couchsurfing to anyone here. It is definitely the coolest community on the planet!

[Trix]

Good job on promoting it! I think it would be great to spread asexuality awareness on couchsurfing, and couchsurfing awareness on AVEN. :lol:

I highly recommend joining couchsurfing to anyone here. It is definitely the coolest community on the planet!

I second that. Joined.

[thylacine]

I read up on "couch surfing." I am sorry to have to warn people that it is not safe. A girl got raped doing this. Sorry to be a downer, but do people really expect to be safe staying in the home of a total stranger? Spend the money on a cheap flea bag motel, and stay safe, people!

[Yellow Fish]

I read up on "couch surfing." I am sorry to have to warn people that it is not safe. A girl got raped doing this. Sorry to be a downer, but do people really expect to be safe staying in the home of a total stranger? Spend the money on a cheap flea bag motel, and stay safe, people!

Yes, things like that happened. But it IS the exception. And rape does happen to people that stay "safe", stay in their home and never leave. Actually - most rapes are committed by people that know the victim. You ALWAYS have to be cautious about what goes on around you. But that's a given with anything you do.

There's 2.5 million people signed up for couch-surfing. I get requests from people asking to stay with me on close to a weekly basis. It's not a "rape club" or anything like that. There are many many people out there that genuinely are committed to hospitality and making people welcome with no criminal activity in their mind. I've made immensely good friends through organisations like that (I was active on Hospitality Club loads for a good while). I've also often stayed with people I met while travelling, randomly. I never book accommodation anywhere I go. I've learnt a lot about the places that I visited that I wouldn't have any other way, either. It's not about travelling cheap - at least in my case that's not the major aspect of it - it's about getting access to a culture and a place in manners that you can't as a tourist but that you can achieve as a traveller.

As I said it is not a form of travelling that is for everyone, nor does it have to be. If you don't feel it is safe - don't do it. But people have travelled like that for a long long time, far longer than couch-surfing or the like existed and to categorically say "this is too risky" is wrong.

It's a mutual thing, too. I've let far more people stay at my apartment than having stayed at other people's places. Not one person has stolen anything, misbehaved or wasn't courteous.

One of my better friends I made through couch-surfing gave up her job as a insurance broker, soled her house and travelled the world for two years, as a single woman, using ONLY couch-surfing and similar organisations. She's fine. She's welcome the world over. She's now working as a photo journalist.

[thylacine]

Your friend is lucky she had no "incident."

I wanted to travel cheap so I stayed at a YWCA once. It had this bathroom people had to share, so I brought my own cleaning supplies and cleaned out the tub before taking a bath. Other than that, it was okay.

Just be careful, that's all.

[Yellow Fish]

Your friend is lucky she had no "incident."

I wanted to travel cheap so I stayed at a YWCA once. It had this bathroom people had to share, so I brought my own cleaning supplies and cleaned out the tub before taking a bath. Other than that, it was okay.

Just be careful, that's all.

Of course being careful is important :). Researching the people you stay with is key. As is having a plan B in case you get bad vibes from the person you stay with when you meet them. There's no obligation with this - for either host or surfer. If you don't like someone leave and go stay somewhere else / tell them to leave (and if you are the host and they don't comply call the police).

I've used loads of hostels over the years before I started travelling in this way. And generally was more nervous staying in those. I've travelled all over Europe, Israel / Palestine by hiking, bicycling and hitch hiking. I rather stay with people that I can message, talk to, read references left by others about and most importantly that I choose myself - beforehand - than a random set that come together in a 6 plus mixed gender dorm :].

[The Hamburglar]

I read up on "couch surfing." I am sorry to have to warn people that it is not safe. A girl got raped doing this. Sorry to be a downer, but do people really expect to be safe staying in the home of a total stranger? Spend the money on a cheap flea bag motel, and stay safe, people!

Please don't spread fear based on something you do not know about.

So you read one story, and suddenly you are an expert? Give me a break.

If you want to preach fear, do it with other things, as well.. that are statistically more dangerous. There are millions of couchsurfers, hundreds of thousands of interactions, and there is a VERY small pertentage of bad experiences. It's bound to happen to anything so large. That does not mean it is "dangerous". Try comparing those statistics to driving, if you have the time. I'd also bet that statistically, more people get raped in cheap flea bag motels. But I wouldn't know... you are the travel expert here.

But to answer your question (answering with two years experience as a couchsurfer), yes, I do feel safe in the home of a stranger. I am staying in the house of a "stranger" right now. I have stayed with many, many people, and met even more people through the site couchsurfing, and each one has been amazing beyond belief. Furthermore, I don't understand the philosophy that you can stay in a stranger's house, because you can't trust strangers. Bullocks. We trust strangers every day. You trust the stranger driving on the opposite side of the street to not come into your lane, you trust a stranger to make your coffee, to supply your water at your house, to educate your children. And yet, "you can't trust a stranger."

I have hitchhiked over 650 times, stayed in countless peoples homes, and I have never had a bad experience. The philosophy that "you can't trust a stranger" is just an example of social brainwashing, demonizing one evil and making others commonly accepted practices.

[Lord Happy Toast]

Safety is an important issue. It is also true that what people fear most is often very different from the things that actually pose the greatest risks to them. But please be nice, everyone. (I'm not saying that people aren't being nice, only that I have a feeling that this thread could start going in bad directions if people aren't careful.)

[Mads]

Actually, I would feel a lot safer couchsurfing with other asexuals--but then, I guess anyone could join the group, huh?

[Yellow Fish]

Yes, Mads everyone could join - and I don't really want to go down the route of a screening process and test people's knowledge or some such ... it'd not make it any more secure anyway and only 'cause all sorts of problems.

What is possible is to create password protect sub-groups that are hidden to non-members and even invite only. I don't think there's a need to do that, at this point, but as I said above - I see my role to facilitate and listen to people using the group If people here feel it'd be useful to establish something like that - tell me. I DO value security and people's safety.

And thanks Mandrewliter :). I agree with that - there's no need to get angry at people posting here or make this a drawn out debate. Everyone has different thresholds of what they are comfortable with. Couch-surfing to me is a calculated risk. I am into mountaineering and rock-climbing, too. I am not good at the latter, but I do enjoy it and it is all about taking calculated risks (both when climbing and lead-climbing). There IS a latent danger with all these "adventurous" activities. Just as couch-surfing "extreme" sports aren't for everyone. I do hope I have made that clear throughout this thread. Don't do something you aren't comfortable with, but allow others to choose their own limits.

Best,

-C.

[The Hamburglar]

That's exactly what I am talking about. Calculated risks. People are so inconsistent with calculating risk, it's amazing.

We get into a small metal box and drive around at 80 mph like it's no big deal, but when I tell people I jump off buildings/cliffs for a living, and that I couchsurf regularly, suddenly I need mental health assessment.

I simply ask anyone who would post in this thread not to spread biased fear based on your previous conceptions of trusting strangers, and a story you read about how couchsurfing is bad.

[PiF]

I wouldn't say it was a biased fear but more of a general concern

myself I use workway quite a lot http://www.workaway.info and it again means staying with ..at the first point..strangers..being male it's less of an issue I am more likely to get mugged, beaten up or killed than say raped or sexually abused

that said I've been in parts of northern africa where I felt safer with strangers than back home in the u.k. with friends

perspective and relative probably works best

couch surfing may work and then for asexuals ..there are quite a few limitations though..most aven asexuals still live at home with thier parents who do not know they are asexual, and some are also uncomforteable with company even if they have thier own

I would say though..if you asses the risk proportianetly..and take that step to travel whilst still carrying out dynamic risk assesments..it will open your eyes up to the world outside of your screen and is a hugely humbling and rewarding expereince

[thylacine]

I am not preaching fear, nor am I claiming to be an expert.

It's only common sense. You would not get into a car with a stranger, would you? (It's an especially bad idea if you are a woman.) Of course there was only one story that I know of with a woman couch surfing who was raped, but how many others are out there, who did not come forward, because they were afraid to be blamed for entering the home of a stranger?

Most likely it's safer to stay in the home of an asexual, but how do yah know they are A???

I am not spreading fear. But seriously... I'm sure it's much safer for a guy.

-- > Now quit jumping on me. I care about people, that's all. Just don't want people to get hurt. What's so wrong with that?

(If you had a daughter, you'd tell her the same thing, I would bet. Maybe I sound un-PC, but if I had a daughter, I'd make sure she had money for a hotel room to keep safe. And tell her to lock her door, too.)

[Yellow Fish]

There is a difference in perception here though thyclaine. I know you don't mean harm, but the message that comes across is that we shouldn't do something we are both comfortable with and enjoy doing. Honestly, I really enjoy interacting with people on this level. I wouldn't want to miss hosting people or getting to know people while travelling in that way.

We always in our life take risks. That's unavoidable. But couch-surfing is one that we can actively choose to engage in or not. And I agree with you that it HAS to be a choice. And that anyone doing this HAS to be aware of the risks. And that one ONLY should do it if one is ok with taking these risks. It won't be an enjoyable form of travelling otherwise. But if someone is aware, ok with the risks, enjoys it and chooses to do this - they have all the right to - and it's a very awesome and amazing experience to them.

I am not trying to take away from your perception. I just ask you to understand that there are people that have a widely different perspective on this. We can co-exist :). There's no universal right or wrong on this - it depends on the individual in question. I utterly understand that it may look scary and unsafe and too risky to people that aren't comfortable with this form of very direct cultural exchange. The same is true of rock-climbing, or mountaineering, or caving - all of which can result in a lot of harm if you do not pay attention - and may seem senseless to someone that feels that it is to risky; that feels that common-sense would be to not engage in these activities.

I am trying to explain my perspective here. The key factor why I like this type of hospitality travelling is that it gives me something that NO other form of travelling gives me. That direct raw access to a culture. It is the one reason why I, personally, travel at all. A holiday in a resort, on a sand strand, for example, would utterly bore me. But I accept that other people want precisely that. I've bicycled around Israel and Palestine, without any accommodation pre-booked, looking for people that worked for peace. I've participated in demonstrations there alongside Palestinians. Things like that are my idea of a holiday; it's all about experiencing a place as it is. I really want to get that deep into another culture [i've studied, among other things, Anthropolgy at university level; the "other" and "unknown" is a fascination of mine.] I know this is very unlike most people. That is ok.

My parents are just like this, themselves. They bicycle all over Europe, and they themselves host strangers in their house. They are aware of what I am doing, that I am travelling like this, and they are ok with it. This, is about different perspectives, too. My parents, I and other couch-surfers live in a slightly different (neither more right than the other) world on that particular aspect. I wouldn't have a problem with my children doing this. I think. I don't have any children, I don't think I'll ever will - I am aromantic, approaching my mid-thirties, and am not looking for a partner, so I can't be 100% certain. But, yes, from where I am - no I wouldn't mind them doing this. I'd teach them how to stay safe, of course. This is a lifestyle choice for me; why would I reject them the right to make the same choice? As I mentioned earlier - this is also not about money for me, nor for several of the people I've met this way. I can afford to stay in hostels, even hotels, when travelling if I wanted to. But I don't want to.

If you look at the couch-surfing statistics - http://www.couchsurfing.org/statistics.html - the split between male / female members is close to 50%. I think it's unfair, and a little unreasonable, on those women participating in couch-surfing to assume they aren't aware of the risks they engage in or never thought about that before starting. There's a good number of female nomads - i.e. people that are full-time travellers with currently no fixed address. Also note that the average age of people signed up to the page is 28 years old. This is not just something that only young people, or people without at least some life experience engage in.

I am talking back here, not because I don't see that you care about people (that's grand), but because I am trying to explain that for some people "common sense" is different from what it is to you. I do hitch hike. I do get into stranger's cars, and I've met several female solo travellers that do, too. My parents know about that as well, and have no problems with it. They actually take hitch hikers along themselves, frequently, since they know I am travelling like that. My life would be poorer for me without engaging in travelling and in hospitality like this. I'd lose something that is important to me, if I'd stop. As it would be the case for a good number of people that are among my friends. What I am asking is that you also care enough about us to allow us to do what we do, being aware of all the risks as we are, and accept that we see things differently.

At this point this really feels like trying to explain Asexuality to someone that it never occurred to that asexuals might exist. Which is probably an apt illustration in some senses. People that engage in hospitality travelling like this are a tiny minority of the overall travelling population - and, yes, a lot of people don't "get" why someone would. The best I can do is to try to give you my perspective and try to show why, to us, someone that's too concerned about what we do or don't does feel overbearing and easily can come across like attempting to limit us by insisting that it what we do is too risky and not common sense. It's similar to a sexual insisting that "common-sense" dictates that everyone must like sex. No matter how much that person cares about me as a person it's still annoying :). When I am talking back like this I am not trying to get on your back. But I try to defend what is ok - and is in some cases not just ok but very much "common sense" - to some people out there.

Best,

-C.

[The main reason I made this topic was to highlight to people that that group on Couch-surfing existed; I'd seen people mention couch-surfing (and have myself) on AVEN in the past. It's rather interesting it turned into a visibility effort; but not about the cause that I thought it would :] ]

[thylacine]

No, I don't mean harm, and no, I'm not saying people "shouldn't do... " All I'm saying is that I don't want anyone to get hurt.

So go ahead, people. Do whatever you want. I don't think it's safe. That's all. And I would advise people to think twice.

[Yellow Fish]

:] I am happy with that. [up to the last three sentences which irk me to go on another long post, but I won't now.]

Is it an ok compromise, with all your consideration and our discussion in here, to let the thread slide back to simply be about the asexual group on couch-surfing?

[thylacine]

Yeah, sure. Whatever. It's no big deal. I just worry about people's safety.

Just remember: Thylacine loves all of yooz! Stay safe and be good.

[The Hamburglar]

It's only common sense. You would not get into a car with a stranger, would you? (It's an especially bad idea if you are a woman.) Of course there was only one story that I know of with a woman couch surfing who was raped, but how many others are out there, who did not come forward, because they were afraid to be blamed for entering the home of a stranger?

Yes, I would. And I have. Over 650 times. Do I lack common sense because I hitchhike? Do I lack common sense because I sleep in the houses of strangers? Or do I simply lack the common brainwashing of the masses that says strangers are evil?

I have many female friends who hitchhike solo, and couchsurf solo, as well. They would be horribly offended by what you said.

No matter how much you think you are not preaching fear, you are. You are telling people that they basically would be retarded for getting in the car of a stranger, or sleeping in a house of a stranger, because "common sense" states that it's not smart to do either, and because ONE girl got raped doing it. But of course, you think there might be more that were never reported. Therefore, it's evil.

If you actually did your research, you would find that more hitchhikers are killed/injured due to car crashes while hitchhiking than by being attacked/raped/whatever by the driver. So basically, the thing that kills the most hitchhikers is the thing you do every day... but think nothing of it. But you preach about common sense. Right.

Again I say. You trust strangers to educate your children, to prepare your food, to not cross the median while driving and crash into you, to create medicines that you take without thinking... and you can't trust a stranger who has hundreds of positive references from people around the world to stay in his/her home?

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[thylacine]

Okay, come on now. Let it go and let it drop. They apparently want to get back to "couchsurfing" discussion... they want me to drop it and I agree to do so.

I said that:

1. It might not be safe, and

2. That I care about people and don't want them hurt. That was my intention. To say people ought to be careful with this. (This is why I finished with "I love all of yooz.")

Then I was going to let it drop because I said it and felt I said it enough, and stated my intention was that I care about people and their safety.

I also went online and did further research and found that other people had problems with this, but certain things were not reported for various reasons (it's out there if people want to look it up... something about a "petition"). I decided not to go on and on about it, but to simply let it go because I felt I warned people enough already, and that they are adults and can take my warning and think about it and make their own decisions. (I felt I warned them, so okay, then they can take the warning and decide for themselves, in other words. But I felt it was right to warn people to be careful. Once again, I am motivated by caring about others.)

-- > At no time did I call anyone "retarded" or say "strangers are evil."

-- > At no time was my intention to offend people.

-- > The aggression and anger can stop now.

-- > I do not know why I am being called a hypocrite.

I am happy to stop with warning people now and go on with life.

Are you happy to let stuff go, too? I don't know why you seem to be taking it personal. It's not personal. Like I said, I just care about people's safety. That is completely all.

I think Yellow and the gang want to go back to their regular discussion, here. I am happy to quit yapping about this "oh be careful, people!" So how 'bout quit being mad about something you probably shouldn't take personal?

P.S. You mentioned you and a friend hitchhike often. It may be that there is less crime where you live. Where I live, we'd be scared to do that, really. And that's the way it is. The U.S. is unfortunately legendary for having more crime than Europe! Every time I go to Europe, if I sit in a coffee shop, people talk to me and they say, 'is it true that there is so much crime in America?' Yup.

[Lord Happy Toast]

The PT is in charge of moderating this forum, and on behalf of the team I would please ask people to stay on topic. The issue of safety has been brought up, there are strong feelings involved, and positions that seem unlikely to be reconciled. I would therefore ask that people drop the issue.

I hope that we can all agree that it's important for people to do their homework and to understand their own personal level of risk-tolerance.

[The Hamburglar]

Are you happy to let stuff go, too? I don't know why you seem to be taking it personal. It's not personal. Like I said, I just care about people's safety. That is completely all.

P.S. You mentioned you and a friend hitchhike often. It may be that there is less crime where you live. Where I live, we'd be scared to do that, really. And that's the way it is. The U.S. is unfortunately legendary for having more crime than Europe! Every time I go to Europe, if I sit in a coffee shop, people talk to me and they say, 'is it true that there is so much crime in America?' Yup.

It is personal when you say my lifestyle lacks common sense. I was defending myself and said lifestyle and was pointing out the hypocrisy in your logic.

At any rate, we can let it go. And what do you mean where you live? In the USA? I've hitchhiked from New York to California and back three times... No problems ever. And friends/acquaintances that have done the same had no problems either.

It's not the way it is. It's the way you perceive it to be. Big difference.

[PiF]

To be fair ham

thy isn't alone in this...many who have never left thier own town, don't even have a passport will have the internet curse...more opinion than experience

it's not until you get out there and take risks..calculated as you point out..that you know the difference

thy's language may have upset you but I suggest that her concerns are shared by many who do not have yours or mine adhoc way of life

I can say back to couch..that if planned well, continually assesed then these one minuute here the next minute I'm off for me has been tremendously and personaly rewarding ..and that..is worth the very small risk

to some perspective if I may...I would feel more at risk walking down my high street after the pubs and clubs have turned out more so than in many foriegn countries I have been in

[Lord Happy Toast]

I'm locking this thread. It's primary purpose was to announce the existence of the asexual couchsurfers group, and this has been accomplished.